Forums > Social Discussion > British TV: The Shot That Shook the World

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
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Posted:Did anyone watch this?

How in gods name could anyone consider a lousy sporting moment more world changing than something like Martin Luther King's speech?

For those who didn't see it, the program was basically 50 news clips in a countdown of what was "world changing".

What really annoyed me was how sport was actually in there at all.

Lame!


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

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Posted:Aha, that was my point as to why Martin Luther King didn't rate particularly highly in that program wink tongue

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
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Posted:I know. I was trying be ironic (or something) and failed miserably wink

The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:dude...check mate.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
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Posted:Fine, I admit that certain sporting events have been life changing.

But most of the events shown on that program (which I believe we were talking about originaly wink ) were within the last decade or so and definatly represented no important life changing significance (religious/racial freedom or whatever).


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:Yes we did wander a wee bit off topic but that was explained earlier as well. You have good grace FRD. thanks

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Yeah, I played rugby and football when I was in school.

Written by: Mynci

then dude...switch teams coz I've never played for a bad team spirit.




Thank you for proving my point. It is you (and your team) vs everyone else. Anything that creates a bond between people distances them from others. I know that's not specifically sport related, but it seems to me that having, say, 22 people divided in the middle (11 each) and fighting furiously against each other is a bit worse than the same 22 people spinning staff, and each trying to get their own moves with no pressure from anyone else.

It's weird the sports you get certain types of fans for. I've enjoyed Fencing, a few Martial Arts, Archery, Kick boxing, Spinning. All of these, to a greater or lesser extent, are violent. However I've never heard of fans of these sports being violent themselves. Maybe because it's a solo thing, so people don't get hyped about "their" team losing. On the other hand, you get teams in all of these (except spinning) when you go to competitions and such.

And to answer Mynci's questions:

I dislike team sports.

"Why do you all hate sport?" I dislike it because IMO it creates yet another excuse for people to beat each other up. Plus I hate the fans, who are generally drunk, have an IQ of below 90, and think that a good aspiration in life is to own a flash car. (Yes, I know that's a generalisation BUT it's what my experience is)

"Were any of you involved with sport previously?" Yes, at school. Because I didn't like it, it meant that about 2/3 of guys didn't even try and talk to me. Social Isolation right this way...

"Were you the last picked at sport?" No, I was generally in the middle. I wasn't BAD at it, I just couldn't be bothered most of the time. I was on the school football team for one match, then left because 1. All the other guys were jerk-offs, 2. The opposing team did their best to actually injure me, on and off the field. I can't handle that kind of agression from people I don't know without punching them.

"Did you not like it because you weren't good at sport/ team games?" I've already explained this. I was reasonable.

"If you did sport and stopped why?" This is covered by what I've said.

I like doing solo sports, where I'm working on myself. I don't think it's anyone else's business how "Good" I am. My standards are my own.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:good point setyhis except. the division of 22 people on the pitch (30 in my experience) is cemented after the final whistle. pitting your skills against another human being isn't divisive. It's human nature. without competition. we wouldn't try to better ourselves and without that we'd be stuck in caves still. fair enough competition can go bad (wars and arms race etc) but competition is what drives life.
BUT NOT ALL SPORT IS COMPETETIVE that is the thing you guys cannot seem to grasp.

But everything has 2 sides. sport isn't bad, just because you've had a bad experience.

22 people spinning staff would be competing....for space. to spin. If you learn a new move do you show it off / tell someone feel proud. learning that new move is winning...albeit against yourself.

do you believe me to have an IQ below 90 sethis?
coz I play sports...watch sports...etc..again we're generalising a bit too much here....remember most pro- rugby players used to be amateurs and had jobs like lawyers etc


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
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Posted:Written by: Mynci

BUT NOT ALL SPORT IS COMPETETIVE that is the thing you guys cannot seem to grasp.




You talking to me? tongue

I know not all sports are competitive, *but* the "life changing" ones certainly were. Or have we beaten that topic to death now wink


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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nearly_all_gone
nearly_all_gone

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Posted:Written by: Mynci


BUT NOT ALL SPORT IS COMPETETIVE that is the thing you guys cannot seem to grasp.



I disagree. The thing I hate about sport is competition, and the ineritable barriers that creats. I read the above definition, which doesn't mention competition, but just to even things up a little, I did a "define: sport" search on google:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />



"an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition"



"the occupation of athletes who compete for pay "



"A form of leisure-time physical activity that is planned, structured and competitive"





And I fully accept there are others on there which do not define sport as a competiton. So let me clarify myself. I hate competitivie sport, where people engage in a physical activity to somehow prove they are "better" than other people, whilst others look on baying their support. I think it is negative. I accept it improves teamwork and motor skills, hand-eye coordination and that sort of thing. I don't, however, think that it's the best way to improve teamwork, and I don't think the other things it improves are particularly valuable in any sense. I certainly don't feel that some grotesque, Roman amphitheatre style of ritual humiliation/adulation is required in this day and age just so that a few people can get fit and healthy. And I don't feel that anyone deserves to be paid the sort of money for it some of these people get, regardless of how big an industry it is. I think sport is outdated and unpleasant, and I admit I do look down on the vast majority of those I know who are really into sport because I believe they must have some kind of mental or spiritual deficiency to not see through the meaningless and empty activity they are participating in/watching/supporting. I think that sport often breeds hatred and only fosters and creates new divisions between people, and I believe that the ultimate good that could happen to the human race is if such barriers were dropped and we saw ourselves as a united species.



Art. What does art contribute that sport doesn't? It's just entertainment? If you cannot understand this then I cannot teach it to you. Beauty, in a word. Beauty is the only thing we contribute to the world. If we cannot contribute beauty, then the whole of civilisation is for nothing. If we do not create, we simply destroy. We are a cancer on the earth. I believe that we give back what we can. We share with outhers the keys of our insight through art. We express the thing that makes us different from the rest of the known universe. What else can we do? Play sport, apparently, but personally I find it meaningless and utterly futile. If you cannot find beauty in a great painting, a wonderful poem which affirms your humanity, then that is your loss. If you would rather watch football than go to an art gallery, go ahead. But I will continue to feel that there has been some educational or emotional deficiency in your development as a human being if you place more importance in a simple, meaningless game than something which expresses something as powerful as a great work of art.



You can like whatever you like, of course, I'm not questioning that. I'm not egotistical enough to think that my opinions will change anyone else's. I just hope that sport will become a thing of the past, particularly the utter farce which is engaged in on every pub television in the land at the moment. By the way, I used to get picked first. I was a really tall kid and a good goalkeeper. But it's just that kind of "you must be rubbish if you don't like sport" mentality which I object to.

EDITED_BY: nearly_all_gone (1128026699)


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

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Posted:
Why should arts and sports be mutually exclusive? Do people who appreciate art but also enjoy a game of football still "have some kind of mental or spiritual deficiency"?

A large part is just escapism, people go and play sports just because they enjoy it, is that so bad?
I don't think I know anyone who actively dislikes art galleries or museums, but it's a hell of a lot easier to go to a park and kick a ball around with your friends than is it to take a wander around a gallery. Especially for people who are at work while the galleries are open.

I think you're being remarkably elitist to suggest that the only thing that is beautiful in this world is art. Especially since art is so incredably subjective.
Does a baby being born into a loving family add no beauty to the world? How about a group of friends looking out for each other and making sure they're all safe and happy? People just enjoying each other's company?
Personally, I think they all add immeasurably more than any of Tracey Emin's work, but only the latter is called art.

Written by: nearly_all_gone

*snip*And I don't feel that anyone deserves to be paid the sort of money for it some of these people get, regardless of how big an industry it is *snip*



I agree with that, there's no way to justify giving people millions of pounds a year to play football, it's just absurd.

Written by:

I think sport is outdated



I certainly don't agree with that, it still serves a purpose. Are you suggesting that the idea of people wanting to enjoy the company of others while keeping fit is no longer needed?
Life would get noticably more boring if that were the case.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Mynci
Mynci

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Posted:N.A.G is synchronised swimming not beautiful? gymnastics? as you can see sport leads to artistic endeavor, the beauty of graceful human movement. dance can be competetive therefore must be a sport....is that not also an art?



1 google search to lead to 1 dictionary definition does not prove all sport is competetive. I've spent over 7 years studying sport and have heard nearly ALL the definitions, discussed them and listen to definitions by international governing bodies of sport.



As I said before. frisbee and hacky-sac are classed as sports.and they were developed AS sports to build co-operation with-out competetiveness.



I do like your comment on my defeciency in development. Is it possibly because I enjoying watching a group of children enjoying themselves in a park playing football (competetive).

For someone who appreciates art you seem to miss all the beatuy that is created by man in an instant. Sport can create beauty that is far more fleeting and fragile than a picture. A picture can be looked at often it has longevity...A perfect human movement. balance, poise grace can be gone in an instant and you can feel joy at witnessing the power of human endeavor.



Am I wrong or do artists disagree on the greatest works of art? Fair point they don't mob or fight (I don't think) but Idiots can like art too. Just because you appreciate art does NOT instantly make you a well rounded, balanced and Intellectual human being.



You obviously seem to miss the beauty of mans struggle. The metaphor of sport mirroring life. The struggle to succeed in a task. Just because the struggle is against other people doesn't make it evil. It's cathartic. It represents mans struggle against an ever changing and shifting environment. your hatred seems to mask you.

I don't hate art. But I agree I sometimes struggle with people saying what an artist was trying to do with a painting when they haven't asked him....surely they are objectifying him. scrutinising.

I just find sport a more interesting form of art. I don't HATE anything. By admitting that, you have showed us your biggest human failing to HATE. This is what leads to war and violence. How does that make you less deficiently developed than me? hug


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Kyrian
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Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Between N.A.G ignoring what I said, saying i'm emotionally or educationally deficient for liking football more than Thomas Kinkade ok.. thats not what you said quite... but what is "great" when it comes to art? Certainly I'd rather watch football than stare at the mona lisa all afternoon and people seem to be fairly universal on that one....

I think bovril and mynci are doing a fine job of arguing this side.

And what about theatre and music, NAG? Do I have to be into poetry to like art? 6 years choir, 3 concert band, about 3 playing harp solo, 4 playing acoustic guitar... I love listening to concerts big/small classical/punk whatever (as long as its not american pop tongue)... oh yeah and 4 years in theatre and a lifelong love of searching out drama and musicals to watch...
but.....

"
If you would rather watch football than go to an art gallery, go ahead. But I will continue to feel that there has been some educational or emotional deficiency in your development as a human being if you place more importance in a simple, meaningless game than something which expresses something as powerful as a great work of art.
"

I generally can't stand art galleries. Most of them are rather annoying, for any mess of reasons. And there's a lot of human beauty in fleeting moments of sport- much of which you seem insistent upon hating, and I have asked you several questions about it which you point blank ignored, but even just to take the example everyone hates, football....
Because I find football more interesting than an art gallery I automatically can't apreciate art? Surely thats narrow minded? Too many generalizations? Throws away a huge portion of my life? For this I'm deficient somehow? Nevermind your rampant statements of how wonderful and life affirming MLK Jr is?

As a leaving thought, unless someone winds up adressing me/ my points again:

Written by:
Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,
but that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.
We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant,
gorgeous, handsome, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?


-Marianne Wilson, Quoted by Nelson Mandela (1994)

And much as MLK didn't mean "Oh, except gays... don't want those" (A current religious right perversion of his stance) I'm pretty sure Mr Mandela didn't mean "Oh, except for sports... life is politics and visual arts you know" wink


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
Sethis

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Posted:My mother has got that excerpt (and the rest of it) on her wall smile

And I'm agreeing with Mynci more now, while I'll still harbour a dislike for people who cause riots after games, the players (who are supposed to be role models and act like a chav who gets paid 2,000,000 a week) who are supposed to be role models, and the sick amount of coverage that sports get on the news...

I do believe that some sports are good in every way, if you want to call Poi a sport, I have yet to see a bad thing resulting from it. Same goes for Hackey-Sack.

But then I think it's a bit narrow to open a discussion on sport. A bit like saying "Art is boring". Because then you'll get a deluge of people wanting you to specify, and insist that TV and Films are art as well. Nevermind Dadoism, Cubism, Post-Modernism and all the other little cliches.

Sport *in general* is too big to talk about precisely. Now, does someone feel like opening a "Football thread" I can rant in? biggrin


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:tongue

you people stay out of my world cup thread! (7 days till the next match date.....)

biggrin

Its perfectly ok to hate football if you're from britain..... just don't go deciding that football = sport
Or even that problems with football = all there is about football....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
Sethis

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Posted:Sure, I do fall into that trap occasionally. All that ever gets told about is the players doing crack, the fans rioting and drinking. I'm aware that there are 11 yr olds who like having a kick about and I'm all for that.

(Gets them the hell away from the Playstations...)

angel2


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog
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Posted:Written by: Sethis

.(Gets them the hell away from the Playstations...)

angel2



I ubblove playing footbal on the ol' PS2. Especailly Pro Evolution Soccer. Loads of fun.

biggrin


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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