RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Sup peoples... I've decided to theme my new tutorial series (as advertised in my practice vid).. Be sure to check back pretty regular for updates.. Also I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you google search the 'K-lite codec pack' and get the codec pack that comes with 'media player classic''.. this program uninstalls all the other codecs and players off your computer and installs oneplayer that plays everything.. mp4, quikctime, etc.. This saves room on your box, unclutters it a bit, and is assumed to be used throughout this tut series.

I- Inversions

Basics- The nifty thing about inversions is that they are pretty much all the same.. Let me begin by going over the 3bt inversions... They are called such because they enter from a 3bt weave.. That's confusing terminology, I know, because you can enter it without doing a 3bt weave. which is also why I've included that they are first degree inversions. (Dont worry about that term first degree.. I'll cover it briefly here, but will be adding a section later to cover it in more detail.)

For now, let us begin by learning the inversions from the weave (and we can adapt the other entrances later).. Lets start with a forward 3bt weave. On the right side, instead of leading all the way to the left side with the right poi, bring the right poi over the left arm and up into the buzzsaw.. The right arm will have to push around the left arm (which wil pull the left poi through the buzzsaw). Both of them exiting out the left side. In the left side plane the right poi does a beat, then the left comes over the right arm (like it does when it leads to the right side) only it goes halfway and enters into the buzzsaw. It should work just like the right side.

here's a video of fwd and rev 3bt (first degree) inversions.

Music: DOA- I hate punk rock

fwd and rev 3bt (first degree) inversions (right click and all)

I think this video is clear enough to speak for itself, so I will move on to the next part of the discussion... Here is where we get into the confusing terminology part of the discussion.. The next topic is 5bt (first degree) inversions... The first degree part is important to note because there are actually two different 5bt inversion types.. I wont clutter up this discussion with arguements for this or that, but rather I will teach you both naming conventions and let you work things out from there..

the main difference between a 3bt (first degree) inversion and a 5bt (first degree inversion) is how they exit... notice in the 3bt inversion you entered on the right and exited on the left, or entered left and exited right. In other words, you moved straight across. In the 5bt (first degree) inversions, we will see that you exit back out the side you entered on, and then push across to the far side, using a carry.

Let me begin with the fwd 5bt (first degree) inversion... lets start with the forward 5bt weave... This time however, lets start when it gets to the left side.. The left poi does a beat, followed by the right, then the left (done untwisting), the right comes under the left arm for its beat, but drops into the buzzsaw as it comes over the left arm (the left arm follows as it swings its last beat).. now the right poi will have to exit back out to the left side plane that it entered from before swinging over to the right side.

before I go any further, let me interject another clip showing the fwd and rev 5bt (first degree) inversions.. this way you can get a visual before I describe it in more detail.

Music: Chixdiggit- Quit your job

fwd and rev 5bt (first degree) inversions (right clicky in censored)

now in this vid I do not do the fwd 5bt inversion on both sides.. because I decided that the best way to clearly see the fwd 5bt was to see it sort of wallplaned, so you can see the rear entrance, the push back out to the left side plane (further out wallplane in the vid).. Dont worry if you are still having problems, let me explain the reverse 5bt (first degree) inversion and then I'll give you some tips for both..

the reverse 5bt (first degre) inversion is done nice and slow in the video.. A number of people had trouble making out the motions in some of the older clips so I decided I would slow this one down to help with that... The reverse is actually the easier of the two inversions... lets start with a 5bt weave one the left side, as the right hand comes over the left arm, let it come up into the buzzsaw from the bottom( ;17).. notice it will exit by pushing back out to the left side.. this is harder to see, but if you are using the player I recomended you can stop the clip at :18 and slowly scroll across frame by frame.. so you can see the poi exiting out left and then carrying across around the change from ;18- ;19..

I will conclude this section with what I consider to be a VERY helpful tip.. when doing the 5bt inversions, focus on the 3bt inversion.. If you go back to the beginning of the clip (the fwd 5bt inversion) notice that I do what looks like a 3bt rev inversion.. but instead of taking it across (on the reverse side) I pull it back out and across the forward side... but it still rolls, just like a 3bt reverse inversion.. If you go back to ;17, you can see it looks like I do a fwds 3bt inversion, but pull it back towards the reverse side, instead of going across the forward side... in this respect, the forward 5bt inversion is like doing a rev 3bt inversion on each side of a fwd 5bt weave, and a rev 5bt inversion is like doing a forward 3bt inversion on each side of you 5bt reverse weave..

alrighty.. now you see that the 5bt (first degree) and the 3bt (first degree) inversions are pretty much the same thing.. they are just exited different.. though by far not a clear term yet, some of you may be recognizing why they are both called first degree. Its like I said early on, they are 'pretty much all the same'.. the 3bts fwd and rev were pretty much the same.. and the 5bt (first degree) were the same as the 3bts.. so you've gotten 4 patterns out of one.. the next step is to flesh out some of these first degree inversions a little more.. In order to do this, I am going to move to doing inversions more wallplaned..

In this section, I am going to go over outside led inversions and inside led inversions.. One of the things I have said numerous times is that its much easier to work out inside led inversions by refering to horiztontal inversions. And the clip in this section should demonstrate that quite well.. but before I jump too far ahead, lets get started with our wallplane inversions.

I'm going to work with a clockwise spinning wallplane weave.. To make things easier, lets just focus on one hand at a time.. lets start with the right hand.. since we are spinning clockwise, the right hand should come under the left arm (like a rev 3bt inversion).. let it exit on the inside.. let the left arm just spin there on the inside while the right arm comes around and enters again from underneath..

Here's our clip for this section.. it has watermill and corkscrew right hand led inversions.

Music: Ten foot pole- I dont mind

right hand led inversions (right clicky)

I filmed the the watermill part (wallplane weave) sideplaned so that you can see all the crossovers and the planes a little clearer.. if you notice the corkscrew part at the end, you will see that the top part of the corkscrew is EXACTLY like the outside of the watermill.. and the bottom part of the corkscrew is EXACTLY like the inside of the watermill.. some people find the horizontal inversions to be harder.. I think the horizontal inversions help you keep track of where your poi need to be and where they are going.. EVEN IF YOU CANT DO IT... just being able to see where it should go horizontally, will let you know where it needs to go with the watermill part..

You can invert that to learn the windmill inversions... the top of the corkscrew is the back of the windmill and the bottom of the corkscrew is the front of the windmill.. think windmill points up, corkscrew points out, and watermill points down.. otherwise, they are exactly the same thing..

I've covered the right hand led inversions, now let me move to the left hand led inversions.. this one is a little harder because there are more beats that occur in between the sides.. (this is just because we are going clockwise, if we were going counter clock it would be just the opposite)

To start the left hand will lead from the outside like a 3bt fwd inversion. The left hand will go over the right arm and come up in the buzzsaw.. remember to bring it across to the inside.. nce n the inside thngs get a little tricky because the left poi has to lead inversions from the right side of the right arm..

because I know that helps none at all.. here again is a nice helpful clip..

Music: Hi-Standard- Asian pride

Left hand led inversions (watermill and corkscrew)

The first part of the vid shows the watermill from the side.. and is even slowed down to clearly show the left poi leading over the right arm to the inside and then under and aroudn the right arm to coem back to the outside..

the end of the clip shows the corkscrew version of the move..

So to recap thus far, we've learned how to do first degree inversions.. We've learned right hand and left hand led inversions, same side and cross side exits, and outside and inside entrances.. so what's left? rolling between them of course..

One of the most fun parts of inversions, imo, is the fact that you can move from one into the other.. I'm only going to cover the smooth flowing roll, but by the time you reach this point, you should be able to get the other jerky one if you wanted..

lets go back to spinning clockwise wallplaned.. start with a left hand led inversion but DONT take it inside, instead we are going to go straight from that inversion into a right hand led inversion...its going to feel like you are 'flipping' the spin.. anyone who has read some of my earlier talks on inversions will recall I refer to this as flipping the pole..

more video goodness..

Music: Dillinger 4- Farts are jazz to a-holes

rolling inversions (vertical and horizontal) [RIGHT CLICKAGE]

In this clip I use a reverse weave base. I start with a 5bt reverse inversions and roll it into a 3bt reverse inversion across to the other side,and then repeat back.. I have also included some horizontal footage so that you can see this from a different angle, and so that you can get an idea of how this would roll for watermill and windmill stuff..

Unfortunately my 5bt second degree clip hasnt been posted up yet, so the last section in my first installment of poi goes punk will have to wait..

hope you've enjoyed it thus far..



Second degree inversions.. this is the first real change in the variation pattern... Up to this point, its all been the same inversion just entered and exited in different ways.. Whereas the first degree inversions crossed over the opposite arm to enter the buzzsaw, second degree inversions are going to enter around their own arm..

The 5bt (second degree) inversions differs from the the 5bt (first degree) inversion by about 180 degrees... Before I talk too much though let me give you a clip..

music: A.F.I. - Hearts frozen soil sod once more by the spring of rage, despair, and hopelessness

rev 5bt (second degree) inversion (with motions) [rightious clickus]

I start with the motions, sans poi.. then some stalled out poi motions of the swing.. and then a smooth flow across..

the trick to this move is the crossover.. let's say we start with a reverse weave... the left side.. if you turn your shoulders a little bit making them parallel with each other (up and down), then the entrance of the 5bt (first degree) inversion becomes a front entered rather than bottom entered inversion.. think of it like turning the whole axis of the system 90 degrees.. why are we doing this? because it means you only have to move 90 degrees instead of 180 degrees to make the 2nd degree inversion work..

by turning your shoulders so that the right is on top, thenit means that the seoncd degree inversion has to be entered by going around the top arm and into the buzzsaw.. so by lining them up, you only have to give the right poi a little more momentum.. (instead of entering from the front over the left arm, it swings higher and goes over the right arm.. )

this also hooks your right wrist around your left forearm.. whihc means all you ahve to do is pull the left hand down into the buzzsaw and push across to the right side.. you can bring up the clip in mpc and scroll the bar one frame at a time across.. around the time where ;01 changes to ;02 you see the left hand pull itself into the buzzsaw and push through.. This move feels really weird because you lead through the move with the left hand.. even though the right -poi- is leading..

the change from the left side to the right side can be worked out so that you dont have to keep your wrists locked in the same position as it flows through the pattern.. which gives it a nice fluid roll..

next time, I'll go over degrees before I jump into the next topic..

happy spinnage..



II. Clarifications

Degrees- The new beat

So the big question that a lot of people have is: What the hell is this degree stuff that like 3 or 4 people bandy around and herald as being so important? The answer is at the beginning of this video.. (I have two versions.. one of them is without music because I know some people (or some peoples parents I should say) would not appreciate the F word.. )

Music: The Ataris- The radio still sucks

degrees-huggy-sj clarification (with music)

degrees-huggy-sj clarification (safe for kids)

At the beginning of this clip, you will see me go through some of the degree positions..

First, zero degree crossover.. zero degree crossover can be summerized simply as No crossover wink.. this is the hand position that is used in buzzsaws, reels, butterflies, etc.. even waistwrapped reels count in this pending you dont have a crossover.. (ie one arm in front and one arm in back is still, imo, zero degree crossover)

Next you see me rotate 180 degrees to a frist degree crossover.. these are used in 2 and 3bt moves.. Which is why one could say that a 2bt weave has a 1rst degree crossover on one side and a 0 degree crossover on the other.. and a 3bt weave, can be said to have a first degree crossover on each side.. Each of the higher degrees will have two different combinations.. think of it as right over, or left over.. so in the case of a 3bt weave you use a right over first degree to go to the left side and you use a left over first degree to come back to the right side..

finally towards the end of the degree section I turn another 180 degrees to show a second degree crossover.. 4bt patterns cand be said to have a second degree crossover and a first degree crossover, while 5bt patterns have 2 second degree crossovers..

So the big question: why degrees? simply put degrees put EVERY pattern on the same page.. a 5bt weave, 5bt butterfly weave, 5bt ttn, 5bt antispin weave, etc.. ALL USE SECOND DEGREE CROSSOVERS.. but.. the 5bt weave has 10 bts and the 5bt antsipin weave can have as many as 18.. beats are good for counting poi circles, and nice and well for that.. but when we discuss 'moves' we need a system of classifying moves.. and using the "beat equation" to derive beats doesnt help.. I mean one still has to know that antispin is going to have 2-1 beats (whihc still doesnt quite help 18 vs 10) and you ened up needing a vast amount of technical knowledge to really keep the ebat system in check as we expand our move base.. degrees allow us to keep EVERYTHING on the same page... weaves, ttns, WRAPS, tangles, etc..

Hopefully this makes sense to people.. notice that in the inversion tutorial I put 5bt first degree and 5bt second degree.. whihc seems to contradict what I just said about degrees.. unfortunately inversions create a unique case that I think we havent finished fleshing out properly.. 1- It was to incorporate as much of the old information on inversions with the current information.. (to avoid arguemtn and rpeserve what we can of clarity) 2- its because the nature of inversions is quite tricky.. I think you can safely talk about inversions in terms of their degree, BUT I think the addition of the bt allows for more specific desription of the placement of that degree.. personally I think that the 5bt first degree inversion should be called a 4bt inversion.. (but even that doesnt help much) you can discuss this at length in the thread, but for now I wish to continue on..

Huggy vs SJ

OI... let me say this again... OI... this is something I think is really simplistic, but because of lack of 'clear' instances, I think people mistakenly lump these together.. This is one of my pet peeves hence the choice of song for this particular tut.. Unlike the rest of the tuts, this one is not meant to demonstrate how to use these moves, but rather as a claqrifcation of the difference between the two..

let nme turn to the video ebcause there are things that I should point about the video before I go further..

1- the huggy in the vid is done like a crosser, and not done like aweave.. it can be done either way..

2- the Sj in the video is done as a weave, and not like a crosser.. SJ's are typicaly done like the huggy crosser (or any reel for that matter) in that they normally spin with the poi at the sides and do some reel combination.. I prefer the sj weave myself, and wanted to use it primarily because it helps demonstrate the connection of the SJ to the inversions above..

notice that the Huggy simply involves the hands on opposite sides.. I can go right over left or left over right.. regardless.. I still end up "hugging" myself..

Notice that the SJ is not crossed but INVERTED.. infact you can slide into and out of these babies using inversions quite easily and smoothly.. I like to use them like and offset weave.. where I go into the SJ weave right, then back left, then back right to exit the SJ.. In much the same way that you can twist up a 5bt weave on the left side, 2bt weave to the right, 2bt weave to the left, 2bt weave to the right, and untwist it..

I also like Sj's done weave style because you can get them up to a 3bt weave, like you would giant or longarm weave.. and one of my current pojects is an sj flower.. which relies on a mix of the Sj weave and reel patterns..

Hopefully this was enough to help you see the difference between a huggy and an sj.. If you want to see mroe on entering and exiting sjs using inversion, check out my practice vid.. I know its dark, but most people dont have problems picking that out..

III. Antispin

Unfortunately at the moment I dont ahve time to run you guys all the way up to the 5bt antispin.. I think the clip I posted on that covered as well as any tut could and I think that the working base of knowledge that one gets out of this section of the Tut series should help them to understand the antispin mechanics enough to where no further clarification is needed..

To start I want to say that this method will help EXTREMELY simplify the antispin motions,.. Its up to you to do any further refining of the pattern, because frankly this is, imo, gets the best flow out of antispin..

Let's start with antispin turns.. We need to start by getting you comfortable with a different style hand poistion.. If you are going to learn antispin, you need to be able to have a position that you can pause at for as many beats as you like.. If you go straight into twisting, you cant always stop where you want.. So first things frist I want you to spin with the left poi in the left side plane.. I want you to spin the right poi facing the left side plane but closer to you.. Its like doing the right poi buzzsaw.. (though I dont want to use that term because there's a LOT going on here.. There's a whole slew of technical things that I dont want to argue here.. I ask that you bare with me for the time being.. I dont mind going into al the details later about why this way is not something different..)

ok.. so you have left poi facing outside left.. and the right poi facing outside left.. the closer you get the right hand to the left hand, the better off you'll be in the long run.. Let's also start with the poi spinning forward.. now we are going to make a turn to the right.. Take it one step at a time.. first lead the left poi under the right arm to the right side.. then as you turn to the right, bring the right poi across, but only bring it to the half buzzsaw position.. this should leave you with the left poi spinning reverse in the left side plane (now) and the right poi spinning reverse facing out left..

before I go further, let me throw out the video.. since that could be potentially confusing..

Music: Green Day- The ballad of Wilhelm Fink

antispin stuff ** as an aside, I would like to point out that all these :30 punk songs have been placed on these clips rather haphazardly.. This one however manages to fit REALLY well with the tut.. I hope you enjoy **

Notice how I keep pulling it so that one poi is always in that 'somewhat buzzsaw' position.. this achieves two things.. 1- It creates a position from which you can keep the poi making circles in roughly the same place.. 2- it sets up the previously mentioned repeatability positin so that you can take your time moving through the positions.. Which GREATLY improves your timing as you learn antipsin both of the timing of the move, and the timing of the poi..

Naturally you should see how this can evolve easily into an antispin weave.. the clip shows a 3bt reverse antispin weave done wallplane (and slightly exaggerated to kinda show how it evloves from the turning excercise) and then it shows some play with the the reverse 3bt antispin.. (YES I know my planes suck...)


EDITED_BY: Rev (1128035981)

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

oliSILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom

smile nice post rev - much better than having to sift through the inversions etc thread...

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

TheBovrilMonkeySILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England

Indeed, very nice biggrin

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

RadaSILVER Member
42 posts
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

neat. ive never seen these. <-- somewhat sheltered. anyway, great tut, and ill certainly give them a shot.

DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Yay biggrin
New moves I actually want to learn!

Cheers dude - nice vids smile

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

I like rex manning! biggrin eek

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Disc0annoying boy
160 posts
Location: Sweden

really sweet.. specially the horizontal version, it looks fabulous.
thanks to your vid, i could nail the forward 3bt from right to left... i've been trying to do it for at least a week.. the left -> right was no prob. but i had problems with right -> left.

no i've got to learn them reverse.... and fivebeat... and horizontal >_<

sweet written too... perfect complement to the vids!

i'd like to see more tuts. from your side ^_^ keep up!

fire is just light and heat.
it's you friend!

FireByNiteSILVER Member
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

awesome rev smile much easier than sifting through all the search results. thanks

Are you up for it?

[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

poi goes punk?

i thought scientific poigress goes Boink!

nice one man, that stuff needed collating.

one day i may even get to watch the vids...

T wave

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Cute Little Burning BallBRONZE Member
101 posts
Location: Here and There... mostly there., Germany

now ill have to shorten the lenght of my poi... angry

Great thread mate
thanx 4 ur effort

want a hug ?

Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. - Calvin 'Calvin & Hobbes'

SalciliaBRONZE Member
18 posts
Location: England (UK)

Very nice indeed... something new to learn smile

Haven't been poiing recently ubbrollsmile

There appears a flight of dragons without heads. Good fortune.

1,376 posts
Location: London, UK

Nice one, looking forward to the rest of this smile

Question - do your poi always tangle when doing 2nd degree inversions though? Mine bloody do ubblol

"Moo," said the happy cow.

RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

no. they do in the clip.. its much easier to do with glowsticks however..

the thing is (and I brought this up to mike) your strings touch most of the time when you isolate an inversion.. whihc is different from say and isolated airwrap, even though the two look exactly alike.. so you need to be aware of the strings touching vs the strings being linked (ie tangled).. I know that sounds incredibly misleading.. and Mike even said it might be pushing it.. but the thing is when you isolate (which is what you pretty much have to do at least a little bit to do it) you are having to seperate your hands.. this means the (I dont wnat to use this term here) 'nexus' formed by the inversion has to move somewhere.. because with your hands seperated it cant be at the wrist.. its just REALLY hard to get that isolation to work with the strings staying spiraled rather than next to each other..

take the normal 3bt inversions.. when you isoalte them with your hands near.. the strings touch.. but when you isolate them whihc your hands far (thik about an inversion where the poi pass lcoser to the other arms elbows) they dont touch at all but kinda spiral... that's the goal of the motion..

but again for the record, yes you can do them without tangling..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

I'm waiting for some new clips to be uploaded.. but I should have it up in the next 8hrs.. (durga durga school mumble grumble) so check back after 5:30 cst (gmt -6 I think)

the next addition will include:
degrees... what are they? why use them?
huggy style crossers.. what are they and why do people call them sj's?
SJs.. What is it? How does it work? and why you should stop calling a huggy an SJ.. angry ubblol

antispin basics-
antispin turns.. and a simple way to use them to help you learn the 3bt antispin..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom

will be checking these videos out tonight rev - looking forward to it lots biggrin

cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

animatEdBRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK

Cool tutorials!! I can learn inversions now...

When we gonna see some anti spin tutorials?


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA

mmmm sexy rev, sexy indeed...

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire

RevBRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

ok.. I'm worn from classes today and a late night last night.. so I apologize if these are not as clear as the First section was.. let me know if there's anything you need cleared up...

oh and as annoying as it can be, I'm going to keep adding everything to the first post to keep the whole tut series together in one place..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

TinklePantsGOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom

yay for sexy rev heehee :P

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

16 posts

ok... i know this thread's been dead for about a year but its such a good thread that i thought i'd bump it back up... and while i'm at it ask, does anyone still have those videos or know where they can be found? all the links seem to be dead. i can do 3bt inversions vertical and horizontal, and working on 5's, but just cant visualise the rest of the moves without the vids. i watched rev,s glowy stuff on youtube and there's some beautiful inverted stuff in there but unfortunately no slo-mo control frown if anyoe could help me out it would make my month, and a few other people's too i'm sure

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