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Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Contact before or after Non Contact?

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:G'day fellow staff people!

I was just wondering what other people's experiences are of when they learned the different schools. Basically, I think there is "contact" and everything in that (which most people seem to do a lot of) and then there's the other kind. The "Other kind" involves spinning in the hands, throws, passes from hand to hand, often under legs or behind the back. Just like in the free video lessons. This "school" generally involves fast or very fast spinning. Now *I* have a background of doing quarterstaff work, as well as having the person who taught me be fanatical about the "Other kind". So predictably I do a lot of this stuff. However I do very limited contact.

However, when I went to Fal 4 almost no-one did prolonged "Other kind" spinning. I think something like 95% of people's staff work was contact. I think I saw about 8 throws over the entire weekend, apart from me and the French guy who did staff juggling...

Why is this? Does anyone know? Do you have a preference? Which do you think is easier? I just thought I'd ask the Staff community as a whole, because there isn't really anyone I can ask where I live.

Thanks Everyone! hug


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Havokist
BRONZE Member since Dec 2004

Havokist


Location: Manchester

Total posts: 2530
Posted:to be honest, i think there was a lot of contact at Fal4 due to the fact that ninja dave and mcp were there...

personally i prefer contact, because you get to feel how the smallest change can send the staff off in an opposite direction, but the "other kind" of spinning i find easier, mainly because you can, in someways, be in more control of your staff because you're holding it in your hand the majority of the time.


We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.

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Lavatwilight
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Lavatwilight

old hand
Location: Wellington somerset, UK

Total posts: 834
Posted:I like mixing the two goeather, i do, do a lot of contact, but have been getting in to more spinnyness.

Contract is nice because it feels good, and the controll you get is somethign else, the feeling of your body controlling each movement.
fast spinny stuff is fun, for playing around in public, because they apprecieate a big throw and catch and fast spinning, where as spinners know what goes in to contact smile


Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Contact is more difficult. The only staff I enjoy playing with when it's not on fire is throws for my doubles and contact. Because the reason I love this stuff it to continually learn and improve... smile

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:you have to explain what contact is to alot of people i find.
not all twirlers have internet connections/travel


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I like my contact but do a bit of the spinney stuff. thing is my staff is very heavy and not so good for the spinney stuff as once it's moving quickly he never wants to stop. so i have different staffs for different styles..

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:its just cause contact has so much more technical space to grow into, and spinny stuff is fairly limited in terms of movements beyond a certain point. i'm not saying there isn't space, or that there aren't incredibly good exponents of this style, just that at the moment all the new innovative stuff is coming in contact(exceping RHD of couse hug) and so i reckon it'll be for the next couple of years. and of course, relative noobs always follow trends... so hen RHD were in the country, the throws that people were learning were incredible. now they're gone, it's back to the contact grindstone it would seem....

(and i did at least two throws at falmouth spank)
wink

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:My apologies, I was probably in my tent. wink

Failing that, you might have done 2 of the 8 biggrin

So basically, people like contact because of the control they get. However DeepSoulSheep said it was more difficult. So should you learn that first or do Spinny stuff first? Any other's got an opinion here?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:i think you need to learn the basic spinny stuff first coz contact moves need to be joined up. always good to learn your basic spins first or you'll get nowhere...always annoys me when i'm playing and a noob picks up a staff watchesme "trying" to do the matrix and they say
"how do you do that...can you show me?"
when they can't even spin the stick without dropping it. you gotta learn to walk before you run.
I got no probs showing people how to do stuff but frustrating when you know your wasting your time coz theydon't understand what your talking about


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Er.... Dance! (?) biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:definately learn spinny spinny stuff first - there isnt alot of it to start with and you get to hold the stick with your hands - kind of vital for a beginner...... wink

Thing i found is alot of contact moves come from spinny spinny stuff, just a little more developed.

Take and over head pinwheeel for instance, doing this spinny spinny is easy, your arms are extended high above your head and the stafff goen high and low behind you back - no?

Ok now at the high poin of the pinwheel dont put your hands high, the staffs natural travel is across the shoulders - ie. a halo roll.

If you didnt understand the basics of spinny spinny, learning the halo could be a harder concept to grasp for someone first attempting.

Say all that - i sometimes teach complete newbies a halo before the spinny spinny, just so they slow the stick down as alot of first timers love speed and minimal control wink

Contact is a great artform to actually slow right down and think about where you putting the stick, rather than just following its pre determined path through fast spinning.

weavesmiley

All in all - contact opens way more doors than non contact........

And just for the record i threw a minimum of 20 staffs at Falmouth - with julian ubbloco

8 throws out of at least 120 people playing ? i rekon you spent way too much time in that tent wink

biggrin


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Aye - I was regularly dropping my doubles (Pesky one handed shower...) most of Falmouth... smile

As people have said, you need to learn the spinny stuff, if for no other reason than to link your contact stuff biggrin

It also teaches good circles and plane control.

Ideally, a good staff spinner would use a mix of spinny, throwy and contacty stuff in one burn smile


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Actually, I think I spent more time in Polarity's tent; blame him for luring me in with origami, scoobies and Unreal Tournament on his laptop wink

But you get my point, not a lot of people were doing throws or non-contact stuff, especially with fire. I exempt doubles from this, because they're a form of their own.

OK, so the impression I get is that after you learn the stuff on the free video lessons, you should move onto contact? Cos I can do everything on the vids, plus some more spinny spinny stuff. Can someone recommend ways of learning contact solo? Because the guy who showed me non-contact stuff doesn't really do *any* contact. Websites, people to harass with PMs etc etc would all be appreciated.

I tried doing some basic rolls, and sucked at them, and could do with someone telling me where I go wrong! biggrin

Thanks again everyone,

Ross hug


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Do a search wink

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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yoni
GOLD Member since Jun 2005

yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath

Total posts: 3099
Posted:http://void.printf.net/~meghan/
br>

i assume you found this lol


UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:TY Durbs, I realised about 10 minutes after I posted that I should have searched... Sorry!

Thanks yoni, I've been to Meg's site, and it's currently the foundation of my contact learning atempts. biggrin

Go Meg!


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:i initially learnt contact in isolation, best advice i can give u is play infront of a reflective surface, not only do u get to spend the whole time looking at yourself u get a better perspective of what your doing wrong.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Mr_chaz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Mr_chaz

Member
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

Total posts: 23
Posted:i agree, you definatly need to learn to walk before you can run but i find it strange that most of the people at falmouth were only doing contact. i find that by mixing the two you get a greater effect, especially wen the staff is on fire. fast spinning to begin with, then moving on to the slower contact. the differences in speed provide good variety and make a good show...i would even go as far as to say that spinning before contact makes the contact look even better because of the contrast between the two styles.
wish i had gone to falmouth...i only live 40 odd miles away! next time...... smile


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burningoftheclavey
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

burningoftheclavey

lurking like a ninja with no camouflage..
Location: over yonder

Total posts: 926
Posted:yeah i started out with basic spinny stuff, but started to learn a bit of contact a month or two ago, i love using my body to control it...

but the halo...when you say the staff goes over the shoulders, does it turn in the middle of the shoulders, or just roll straight over the top? im trying to get more moves involving my back but finding it a bit difficult to balance it alot of the time,. but i guess its probably just practise, unless anyone has any tips?


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Owned by Brenn smile

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:watch videos theres lots of them in the videos section

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Sdrawkcab
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

newbie
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Total posts: 21
Posted:hey all, just read through all of that and it all makes good sense (aye im new enough to need to know better) but i have a question and im sure it may come down to personal pref but which is better for contact/spinny stuff would you have a long staff for spinny and a short for contact or vie versa?

Really need to get to this thing at the civic and get some pointers.

Only had my lil firestaff for a few months can do a few spinny things fairly good but nt many contact moves.
actually while im here can any of you suggest a few good starting contact moves?

Cheers


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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Depends on your height i guess, but on average i find a staff anything above 140cm is good for contact.

As for basic starting moves, paly with neck rolls, elbow to wrist rolls and maybe some arm rolls too.

ubbrollsmile


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Mags The Jedi
GOLD Member since May 2004

Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK

Total posts: 2020
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men

best advice i can give u is play infront of a reflective surface



ubblol


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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-sandy-
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 716
Posted:watch a couple of vids.
then chuck a stick on your back.
then see what happens.
if the same thing keeps happening keep practicing untill its smooth.
then watch more vids.
then keep practicing.


"Don't do it naked!"

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:I like mags's post, very zen.

But I still say: DANCE! Before after and during contact and non-contact.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Kyle McLean
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin

Total posts: 364
Posted:ditto
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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Phaerie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Phaerie

veteran
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 1240
Posted:offtopic love you kyle!! thats hilarious ubblol

Only when you close your eyes can you really see...

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Kyle McLean
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin

Total posts: 364
Posted:biggrinOT, but only by a teeny weeny bit.
I'm a bit wary of breaking down stick stuffage in to schools of technique (eg contact or throws). I've seen people play with really wonderful styles, but find that to my eye it is usally thier movement that gives it all a distinct taste, and this can transcend technique to an extent. Some techniques are just a bit harder to learn to move with..
As for needing to learn non contact before contact, maybe if you are learning in order to play with fire (which I suppose would be the majority of folks here) then great idea. But there's lots of folks who are starting to learn it more as an improv/movement/balance sort of thing. Personally I like both, but just I guess I'm just trying to say it all depends why you're playing in the first place.
:end ramble:


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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Sdrawkcab
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

newbie
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne

Total posts: 21
Posted:tis all good and all ver usefull. well my staff be about 4ft fire.
Canb do basic throwing and catching and after being down at the civic the other day got a few ideas for some contact moves i wanna try out.

anyone know anywhere no9t online i can get a copy of the COL dvds?
aint really tried looking much as a) im feeling lazy right now and b) i work nightshift so all the shops keep closing before i get out of bed lol.

dont matter too much as could always order em online just dont wanna wait for post. ok so im impatiently lazy lolsign


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