Forums > Social Discussion > should we start whaling again?
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just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
as the IWC meets again there seems to be a large push to start commercial whaling once more. does anyone actually think it this is a good idea.
i personally think its outrageous.
for more info...
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/593116/
as the IWC meets again there seems to be a large push to start commercial whaling once more. does anyone actually think it this is a good idea.
i personally think its outrageous.
for more info...
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/593116/
It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.
BRONZE Member
Member
87 posts
Location: frankston, Australia
Member
87 posts
Location: frankston, Australia
Posted:
i agree there should not be anymore whaling than there already is i think we need to stop all this the sooner the better i mean whales are butifull animals i dont think anyone should be hunting them i think we need to hunt the people that hunt them
i agree there should not be anymore whaling than there already is i think we need to stop all this the sooner the better i mean whales are butifull animals i dont think anyone should be hunting them i think we need to hunt the people that hunt them
fire is a living thing it can breath and it eats so respect the fire
member
58 posts
Location: under your bed
58 posts
Location: under your bed
Posted:
I like the hunting whalers idea. It is a bad idea to start whaling again, just like it is a bad idea to kill most of the things that are being killed.
I like the hunting whalers idea. It is a bad idea to start whaling again, just like it is a bad idea to kill most of the things that are being killed.
Isn't sanity a one trick pony? Rational thought is all you get but when you are crazy the sky is the limit.
SILVER Member
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
hunting whalers? i think i like that idea!
i just remembered something else too, b/c the slaughter of whales isnt really endoresd, there isnt any agreed upon method on a humane killing method. htere was a thing a few months back, where a humpback whale struggled for 2.5hrs on the end of a harpoon, being electrocuted. but b/c it was so big there wasnt enough juice to actually kill it, just torture it.
hunting whalers? i think i like that idea!
i just remembered something else too, b/c the slaughter of whales isnt really endoresd, there isnt any agreed upon method on a humane killing method. htere was a thing a few months back, where a humpback whale struggled for 2.5hrs on the end of a harpoon, being electrocuted. but b/c it was so big there wasnt enough juice to actually kill it, just torture it.
It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.
member
58 posts
Location: under your bed
58 posts
Location: under your bed
Posted:
why did you have to mention that now I feel bad.
why did you have to mention that now I feel bad.
Isn't sanity a one trick pony? Rational thought is all you get but when you are crazy the sky is the limit.
BRONZE Member
Draco Iracundia
784 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Draco Iracundia
784 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
i think its really wrong.
the thing that has got me angry about this is that people believe that even if Japan doesn't get the votes it needs to increase its number of wahles it can hunt, they will go hunt them anyway. I think its a joke how Japan says that its for scientific research, yet you go to expensive restuarants and its on the menu.
I think they just said on the news that the ban on comercial whaling has not be changed. So some good news.
i think its really wrong.
the thing that has got me angry about this is that people believe that even if Japan doesn't get the votes it needs to increase its number of wahles it can hunt, they will go hunt them anyway. I think its a joke how Japan says that its for scientific research, yet you go to expensive restuarants and its on the menu.
I think they just said on the news that the ban on comercial whaling has not be changed. So some good news.
Do we sleep when we die?
BRONZE Member
Member
87 posts
Location: frankston, Australia
Member
87 posts
Location: frankston, Australia
Posted:
i think we should hunt the whale hunters show of hands for it
EDITED_BY: greddyfirebrat (1119341801)
i think we should hunt the whale hunters show of hands for it
EDITED_BY: greddyfirebrat (1119341801)
fire is a living thing it can breath and it eats so respect the fire
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
I hate even the thought of this.
whales should frolick in the ocean where they belong.
I hate even the thought of this.
whales should frolick in the ocean where they belong.
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
122 posts
Location: London, UK
122 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
There are two issues here - the first is to do with conservation and the second is to do with morals.
1) Have whale populations returned to a sufficient level where whaling on a limited basis could be allowed? For minke whales, the most hunted species, the answer is looking more like a yes. But the counter-argument to this is that methods for estimating whale populations are poor and we can't really say for sure. Whales also face other dangers include getting trapped in nets, and being confused by man-made sources of noise pollution.
2) Is hunting whales unethical? Given their intelligence I would have to say yes. The counter-argument to that is that it draws an arbitrary distinction between whaling and other forms of meat production which are also very distasteful, e.g. slaughterhouses. The Japanese accuse anti-whaling groups of hypocrisy and cultural imperialism on these grounds.
My own views are that on the conservation grounds alone, the territory is far too dodgy to allow whaling to restart. Once damage is done, it's done. Right whale populations have yet to recover fully despite the whaling moratorium. That's probably because once their population dwindles, their niche in the ecosystem starts to disappear. So once they have the opportunity to recover, there's effectively nothing to recover into - the human equivalent of being driven away from home, and then coming back to find it's gone. Ethically, I think the lines are grayer- whaling is really, really horrible but I eat beef and pork so I don't feel justified in being anti-whaling on these grounds.
There are two issues here - the first is to do with conservation and the second is to do with morals.
1) Have whale populations returned to a sufficient level where whaling on a limited basis could be allowed? For minke whales, the most hunted species, the answer is looking more like a yes. But the counter-argument to this is that methods for estimating whale populations are poor and we can't really say for sure. Whales also face other dangers include getting trapped in nets, and being confused by man-made sources of noise pollution.
2) Is hunting whales unethical? Given their intelligence I would have to say yes. The counter-argument to that is that it draws an arbitrary distinction between whaling and other forms of meat production which are also very distasteful, e.g. slaughterhouses. The Japanese accuse anti-whaling groups of hypocrisy and cultural imperialism on these grounds.
My own views are that on the conservation grounds alone, the territory is far too dodgy to allow whaling to restart. Once damage is done, it's done. Right whale populations have yet to recover fully despite the whaling moratorium. That's probably because once their population dwindles, their niche in the ecosystem starts to disappear. So once they have the opportunity to recover, there's effectively nothing to recover into - the human equivalent of being driven away from home, and then coming back to find it's gone. Ethically, I think the lines are grayer- whaling is really, really horrible but I eat beef and pork so I don't feel justified in being anti-whaling on these grounds.
BRONZE Member
Draco Iracundia
784 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Draco Iracundia
784 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
Well if pigs and cow numbers were at the point of being wipped out, i would stop eating them.
Well if pigs and cow numbers were at the point of being wipped out, i would stop eating them.
Do we sleep when we die?
Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
122 posts
Location: London, UK
122 posts
Location: London, UK
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Nice, that's one point for sentience.. shame about the billions for barbarism. Humans are not above the natural order, and don't have an automatic right to other creatures lives. Whale hunting is disgusting, as are slaughterhouses, deforestation, overfishing (well, fishing in general imo). There are alternatives which don't involve killing animals - we should be taking them.
Nice, that's one point for sentience.. shame about the billions for barbarism. Humans are not above the natural order, and don't have an automatic right to other creatures lives. Whale hunting is disgusting, as are slaughterhouses, deforestation, overfishing (well, fishing in general imo). There are alternatives which don't involve killing animals - we should be taking them.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Nice to see I'm not always the first to make contraverial posts
Written by:
Humans are not above the natural order, and don't have an automatic right to other creatures lives
Nice to see I'm not always the first to make contraverial posts
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Surely that makes us part of the natural order - one which has animals eating other ones?
Starting to whale again is a bad idea - there just aren't enough of them. Wether for scientific research or for food, there's no excuse for hunting them to extinction.
Written by: nearly_all_gone
Humans are not above the natural order, and don't have an automatic right to other creatures lives.
Surely that makes us part of the natural order - one which has animals eating other ones?
Starting to whale again is a bad idea - there just aren't enough of them. Wether for scientific research or for food, there's no excuse for hunting them to extinction.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
122 posts
Location: London, UK
122 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
But other creatures have automatic rights to other creatures' lives. Surely the natural order is that nature is red in tooth and claw and some animals kill other animals for food. By merely claiming that we have an ethical responsibility towards treating other animals with fairness, we are already placing ourselves above the 'natural order'.
I'm not advocating whaling/deforestation/slaughterhouses etc. but I'm saying that we can't use 'don't place ourselves above the natural order' as a justification for our ethics.
Dammit, I'm off topic again. Look, whaling is bad from a conservationist standpoint because we stand to lose a species. The animals also die in horrible ways which I hate, but I don't think people who eat non-organic meat in general have an ethical leg to stand on when criticising whaling.
Written by: nearly_all_gone
Humans are not above the natural order, and don't have an automatic right to other creatures lives.
But other creatures have automatic rights to other creatures' lives. Surely the natural order is that nature is red in tooth and claw and some animals kill other animals for food. By merely claiming that we have an ethical responsibility towards treating other animals with fairness, we are already placing ourselves above the 'natural order'.
I'm not advocating whaling/deforestation/slaughterhouses etc. but I'm saying that we can't use 'don't place ourselves above the natural order' as a justification for our ethics.
Dammit, I'm off topic again. Look, whaling is bad from a conservationist standpoint because we stand to lose a species. The animals also die in horrible ways which I hate, but I don't think people who eat non-organic meat in general have an ethical leg to stand on when criticising whaling.
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
animals eat animals. thats the way its been for a long time.
admittedly, we humans seem to have become very efficient at eating lots of animals, and cutting out a lot of the hunter-gathering side of things.
Would you want to go back to nomadic hunting and gathering though? pre-medieval, pre-christ, pre-lots of things? not having a fixed home, not having computers or anything like that?
Some bits would, admittedly be awesome, but lots more bits would suck.
And, in a manner of thinking, everything we have today has its basis in animal exploitation.
animals eat animals. thats the way its been for a long time.
admittedly, we humans seem to have become very efficient at eating lots of animals, and cutting out a lot of the hunter-gathering side of things.
Would you want to go back to nomadic hunting and gathering though? pre-medieval, pre-christ, pre-lots of things? not having a fixed home, not having computers or anything like that?
Some bits would, admittedly be awesome, but lots more bits would suck.
And, in a manner of thinking, everything we have today has its basis in animal exploitation.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
SILVER Member
c",
199 posts
Location: Ireland
c",
199 posts
Location: Ireland
Posted:
Even if there were enough whales to start again do we really need another type of animal to eat? Iv never eaten whale and just look at the picture of me on the left , see i turned out fine without eating whale
But on the other hand somone said we should'nt eat whales because they are beautiful. But by that logic eating pigs is ok because they are'nt beautiful. Whatever the creature whale , pig or human they are all equally edible. Where do we draw the line on what to eat and what not to eat???
Even if there were enough whales to start again do we really need another type of animal to eat? Iv never eaten whale and just look at the picture of me on the left , see i turned out fine without eating whale
But on the other hand somone said we should'nt eat whales because they are beautiful. But by that logic eating pigs is ok because they are'nt beautiful. Whatever the creature whale , pig or human they are all equally edible. Where do we draw the line on what to eat and what not to eat???
SILVER Member
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
i think ed summed it up pretty well. on the conservation point, it is hard to assess whale atocks and as such woul dbe very hard to effectively manage a sustainable harvest of population. not to mention the problems with regulating the fishery (which ironically wouldnt be a fishery, b/c whales arent fish)
the cultural issue is, as ed pointed out, abit trickier. culture is used as an 'excuse' or 'reason' for many things that majority of world disapproves of. the arguement, however, is based on the assumption that culture is static, and b/c it culture WAs like this it should always be this. this is far from realtiy however, culture is ALWAYS changing, it is always emergent.
aspects of Japans culture has chamged over time and this is one more aspect of it. it doesnt mean a loss of identity, it simply means things change. japan didnt become any less japanese after the last of the true samurai disspeared. to say we have to do this b/c it is our culture, ignores the fact that it is the sum of all the individual actions within a culture that constitute that culture.
ok, im getting slightly of point now. in short; whaling bad, so stop it.
i think ed summed it up pretty well. on the conservation point, it is hard to assess whale atocks and as such woul dbe very hard to effectively manage a sustainable harvest of population. not to mention the problems with regulating the fishery (which ironically wouldnt be a fishery, b/c whales arent fish)
the cultural issue is, as ed pointed out, abit trickier. culture is used as an 'excuse' or 'reason' for many things that majority of world disapproves of. the arguement, however, is based on the assumption that culture is static, and b/c it culture WAs like this it should always be this. this is far from realtiy however, culture is ALWAYS changing, it is always emergent.
aspects of Japans culture has chamged over time and this is one more aspect of it. it doesnt mean a loss of identity, it simply means things change. japan didnt become any less japanese after the last of the true samurai disspeared. to say we have to do this b/c it is our culture, ignores the fact that it is the sum of all the individual actions within a culture that constitute that culture.
ok, im getting slightly of point now. in short; whaling bad, so stop it.
It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.
SILVER Member
Running hippy spinning lemming
15 posts
Location: Scotland
Running hippy spinning lemming
15 posts
Location: Scotland
Posted:
personally i would HATE to see a return to whaling... i dont think the whale pops could survive + i feel its unethical however....
its a confusing issue, one japanese viewpoint is that the increase in whale populations is actually going to have other ecological effects....
the increase in whale populations under protection competing for food resources against other marine species (for example decreasing krill or fish stocks)
protected seals in antarctica have recovered now to levels greater than they were before hunting (aparently) and now there is some talk about the need for some seal control as they are starting to have negative effects on some of the sensitive vegetation by over trampling
also the complete prohibition of harvesting has been shown in other species to increase the economic value of illegally hunted animals and therefore created an incentive for hunting
its often said that sustainable harvesting provides a better incentive to carefully manage resources,
but personally - after looking at the state of our marine environment and record of attempted 'sustainable' management in fisheries then i would run a mile from whale harvesting!
on the cultural issue - eek!
i guess its impossible to tell what will happen, both harvesting or not harvesting whale populations could have ecological effects...
i just hope too many more marine species dont collapse
personally i would HATE to see a return to whaling... i dont think the whale pops could survive + i feel its unethical however....
its a confusing issue, one japanese viewpoint is that the increase in whale populations is actually going to have other ecological effects....
the increase in whale populations under protection competing for food resources against other marine species (for example decreasing krill or fish stocks)
protected seals in antarctica have recovered now to levels greater than they were before hunting (aparently) and now there is some talk about the need for some seal control as they are starting to have negative effects on some of the sensitive vegetation by over trampling
also the complete prohibition of harvesting has been shown in other species to increase the economic value of illegally hunted animals and therefore created an incentive for hunting
its often said that sustainable harvesting provides a better incentive to carefully manage resources,
but personally - after looking at the state of our marine environment and record of attempted 'sustainable' management in fisheries then i would run a mile from whale harvesting!
on the cultural issue - eek!
i guess its impossible to tell what will happen, both harvesting or not harvesting whale populations could have ecological effects...
i just hope too many more marine species dont collapse
Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering...
Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
122 posts
Location: London, UK
122 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
It's a good point. This is from New Scientist's article on whaling from last week's issue:
The whalers also say that controlling whale numbers is necessary to protect fish stocks. But this argument fell apart last year when a study of 115 marine mammal species found that 99 per cent of their feeding occurs in areas where there is little fishing (New Scientist, 15 May 2004, p 6).
Written by: Psycho_lemming
its a confusing issue, one japanese viewpoint is that the increase in whale populations is actually going to have other ecological effects....
the increase in whale populations under protection competing for food resources against other marine species (for example decreasing krill or fish stocks)
It's a good point. This is from New Scientist's article on whaling from last week's issue:
The whalers also say that controlling whale numbers is necessary to protect fish stocks. But this argument fell apart last year when a study of 115 marine mammal species found that 99 per cent of their feeding occurs in areas where there is little fishing (New Scientist, 15 May 2004, p 6).
GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
So i think i caught on the news last night, they lost the vote? Is that right? ( the japanese) Not that it matters because their spokesman said they would double their kill even if voted against. Its sad how they buy off small islands to vote for them.
The problem to me is it seems alot of people are just sitting there doing nothing. Saying nothing. I mean most of you guys are so far from antarctica, but imagine if they were doing this off Miami or Off Scotland! Do you realise how far japan is from the southpole?
Another problem is they want to start killing hump backs again! My memory is not great but when i studied whale stats, awhile ago, it looked like humpbacks were dying out regardless of hunting!
The part that shocks me is the way they can tell the world to go
themselves, like there is nothing we can do to stop them. Hopefully the Australian navy will mistake them for immigrants 
Its easy to sit around and bitch about problems, But taking action is another story. Ban Japanese products...simple.
EDITED_BY: Dragon7 (1119488428)
So i think i caught on the news last night, they lost the vote? Is that right? ( the japanese) Not that it matters because their spokesman said they would double their kill even if voted against. Its sad how they buy off small islands to vote for them.
The problem to me is it seems alot of people are just sitting there doing nothing. Saying nothing. I mean most of you guys are so far from antarctica, but imagine if they were doing this off Miami or Off Scotland! Do you realise how far japan is from the southpole?
Another problem is they want to start killing hump backs again! My memory is not great but when i studied whale stats, awhile ago, it looked like humpbacks were dying out regardless of hunting!
The part that shocks me is the way they can tell the world to go
themselves, like there is nothing we can do to stop them. Hopefully the Australian navy will mistake them for immigrants Its easy to sit around and bitch about problems, But taking action is another story. Ban Japanese products...simple.
EDITED_BY: Dragon7 (1119488428)
BRONZE Member
Draco Iracundia
784 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Draco Iracundia
784 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
ed209, i dont think that it will really effect fish or krill stocks as they have been building up without having things eat them.
I dont really think whales can breed fast enough to be a problem.
ed209, i dont think that it will really effect fish or krill stocks as they have been building up without having things eat them.
I dont really think whales can breed fast enough to be a problem.
Do we sleep when we die?
Ed: geek, staffer, past participle
122 posts
Location: London, UK
122 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Erm.. dragonfury, I was agreeing with that? The passage I quote refuted the fish/krill stock argument?
Ah, the internet. When even the people who agree with you think you're wrong
Erm.. dragonfury, I was agreeing with that? The passage I quote refuted the fish/krill stock argument?
Ah, the internet. When even the people who agree with you think you're wrong SILVER Member
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
heard the latest on the news. the japnese representatives said they would just hunt seals instead of whales if they couldnt hunt whales. they lost the vote, but still dont care, they said they still going to double the minke whale catch to 900 odd whales a year and start hunting humpbacks (maybe the singing got on their nerves). they also said if the IWC didnt change its stand on things they would just walk out. its kinda sad when the fact that an organisation like that is shown to have no teeth. australian rep also said that they wont stop japanese whalers form using their ports, which they already do, but if japan did do what it has threatened they would ask it not (i bet the japanese rep's are really frightened).
and for the record, i have nothing against japanese ppl, i simply object to the harvesting of whales.
heard the latest on the news. the japnese representatives said they would just hunt seals instead of whales if they couldnt hunt whales. they lost the vote, but still dont care, they said they still going to double the minke whale catch to 900 odd whales a year and start hunting humpbacks (maybe the singing got on their nerves). they also said if the IWC didnt change its stand on things they would just walk out. its kinda sad when the fact that an organisation like that is shown to have no teeth. australian rep also said that they wont stop japanese whalers form using their ports, which they already do, but if japan did do what it has threatened they would ask it not (i bet the japanese rep's are really frightened).
and for the record, i have nothing against japanese ppl, i simply object to the harvesting of whales.
It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.
GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
Same here. I wish the NZ govt had enough "hardware" to go out there, and do something about it. Do as in arrest. Specially all the fishing boats who are obviously overfishing in OUR waters.
Same here. I wish the NZ govt had enough "hardware" to go out there, and do something about it. Do as in arrest. Specially all the fishing boats who are obviously overfishing in OUR waters.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
But you can grow hundreds/thousands of pigs on a single farm. And they only take a fairly short time (compared to whales that is), to reach a harvestable size.
I'll be damned if you can grow a single whale on a farm the same size, let alone an area of water the size of a farm, and it would take years to get the whales up to harvestable size.
They don't grow and harvest pigs the way they do beacuse they aren't as beautiful as whales are seen to be, they do it cause they are easy and profitable to breed and slaughter.
And on topic with the thread, I'm not a huge fan on whaling, but I would be hypocritical to say it's wrong when I don't discourage people eating fish or any other meat. I shudder to think of peaceful whales being hunted down like that, but did my ancestors not do the same thing to deer or elk or moose?
I will, however, have absolutely no part with the hunting of animals, at any point in the process. I do not eat anything that was not specifically bred to be eaten. The animals I eat are going to be eaten anyways, if not by me, then by someone else. I juts don't believe it right to let something that has died for others, to go to waste. I do however, think about the lives and pray for the animals I do eat however. I do them this at least.
Written by: Spiderbaby
Even if there were enough whales to start again do we really need another type of animal to eat? Iv never eaten whale and just look at the picture of me on the left , see i turned out fine without eating whale
But on the other hand somone said we should'nt eat whales because they are beautiful. But by that logic eating pigs is ok because they are'nt beautiful. Whatever the creature whale , pig or human they are all equally edible. Where do we draw the line on what to eat and what not to eat???
But you can grow hundreds/thousands of pigs on a single farm. And they only take a fairly short time (compared to whales that is), to reach a harvestable size.
I'll be damned if you can grow a single whale on a farm the same size, let alone an area of water the size of a farm, and it would take years to get the whales up to harvestable size.
They don't grow and harvest pigs the way they do beacuse they aren't as beautiful as whales are seen to be, they do it cause they are easy and profitable to breed and slaughter.
And on topic with the thread, I'm not a huge fan on whaling, but I would be hypocritical to say it's wrong when I don't discourage people eating fish or any other meat. I shudder to think of peaceful whales being hunted down like that, but did my ancestors not do the same thing to deer or elk or moose?
I will, however, have absolutely no part with the hunting of animals, at any point in the process. I do not eat anything that was not specifically bred to be eaten. The animals I eat are going to be eaten anyways, if not by me, then by someone else. I juts don't believe it right to let something that has died for others, to go to waste. I do however, think about the lives and pray for the animals I do eat however. I do them this at least.
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
NO, NO, NO, and a THOUSAND TIMES NO!
Whales are WILD ANIMALS. And they take forever to replenish.
NO! It's not necessary, it's cruel, and they're still not in large enough numbers.
NO, NO, NO, and a THOUSAND TIMES NO!
Whales are WILD ANIMALS. And they take forever to replenish.
NO! It's not necessary, it's cruel, and they're still not in large enough numbers.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
This is what I was trying to get at with the pig explanation lol. Damn, Mike is just so good with his words ^.^'
Written by: Doc Lightning
NO, NO, NO, and a THOUSAND TIMES NO!
Whales are WILD ANIMALS. And they take forever to replenish.
NO! It's not necessary, it's cruel, and they're still not in large enough numbers.
This is what I was trying to get at with the pig explanation lol. Damn, Mike is just so good with his words ^.^'
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
I've just been to Stradbroke Island ( Brisbane) which is one of the best places in the world to watch whales.. You can stand by the beach and see pods of them travellin north to their nursery at Hervey Bay.. spraying, breaching, flapping their tails and possibly chatting to the dolphins. In a few months they head back down south with their babies in tow and REALLY start playing....
Must feel a whole load lighter to have given birth to a whale!
I think someone told me that they don't eat for the whole trip either. Some sort of celebrity motherhood?
Anyway the good news is the numbers are really good at the moment. Let's keep it that way.
I've just been to Stradbroke Island ( Brisbane) which is one of the best places in the world to watch whales.. You can stand by the beach and see pods of them travellin north to their nursery at Hervey Bay.. spraying, breaching, flapping their tails and possibly chatting to the dolphins. In a few months they head back down south with their babies in tow and REALLY start playing....
Must feel a whole load lighter to have given birth to a whale!
I think someone told me that they don't eat for the whole trip either. Some sort of celebrity motherhood?
Anyway the good news is the numbers are really good at the moment. Let's keep it that way.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
just a shadow of my former self...
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
here here!
however, one of the things i wanted to address with this thread was the question of whether the rest of the world has the right to impose 'our' moral standpoint on another culture?
dont get me wrong, i think no one should start whaling, but do we (as mostly westerners) have the right to say to japan, "we value the lives of these animals more than we value your right to practise your culture"
im tryin to move away from the ecological aspects which we all seem to agree on, but what of the cultural implications?
now, i also believe when we deal with issues of culture we are on very tricky ground, culture i sused as an excuse for many things that have nothing at all to do with culture. but cultural practises should always be respected. the cultural issue analogous, in my (imo) to the question of 'should we save muslim woman from the burkha?'
imo, we shouldnt, because it is very arrogant and egocentric to say, our culture has a better understanding of equality and understanding what your women want so we are going to come into your country and change your way of life so you are more like us. you can almost imagine bush saying that about iraq, he knows democracy is the best for the world and he will impose it on them whether they want it or not, come hell or high water.
this is the tricky cultural ground i was talking about. i hope i explained it properly.
and for the record I DONT AGREE WITH WHALING!
here here!
however, one of the things i wanted to address with this thread was the question of whether the rest of the world has the right to impose 'our' moral standpoint on another culture?
dont get me wrong, i think no one should start whaling, but do we (as mostly westerners) have the right to say to japan, "we value the lives of these animals more than we value your right to practise your culture"
im tryin to move away from the ecological aspects which we all seem to agree on, but what of the cultural implications?
now, i also believe when we deal with issues of culture we are on very tricky ground, culture i sused as an excuse for many things that have nothing at all to do with culture. but cultural practises should always be respected. the cultural issue analogous, in my (imo) to the question of 'should we save muslim woman from the burkha?'
imo, we shouldnt, because it is very arrogant and egocentric to say, our culture has a better understanding of equality and understanding what your women want so we are going to come into your country and change your way of life so you are more like us. you can almost imagine bush saying that about iraq, he knows democracy is the best for the world and he will impose it on them whether they want it or not, come hell or high water.
this is the tricky cultural ground i was talking about. i hope i explained it properly.
and for the record I DONT AGREE WITH WHALING!
It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.
GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
Its not tricky at all. Tradition is an excuse. Maori have changed alot of our traditions. Ie Cannibalism. Just because its a tradition, dosn't make it right, there is a time to change or give up some traditions. (As the japanese know, because they have evolved alot and given up many of their old traditions [samurai] when they arnt needed anymore)
Its just more of their propaganda to make you doubt. See its thrown you right off the issue "should we start whaling again?" Not "Do they have traditional rights to go whaling".
Its stupid, everyone knows exactly what will happen if we keep whaling.
To be honset, in a fluffy place like hop, i thought there would be alot of intrest in this thread. Maybe the rest of the world dont really care 
Its not tricky at all. Tradition is an excuse. Maori have changed alot of our traditions. Ie Cannibalism. Just because its a tradition, dosn't make it right, there is a time to change or give up some traditions. (As the japanese know, because they have evolved alot and given up many of their old traditions [samurai] when they arnt needed anymore)
Its just more of their propaganda to make you doubt. See its thrown you right off the issue "should we start whaling again?" Not "Do they have traditional rights to go whaling".
Its stupid, everyone knows exactly what will happen if we keep whaling.
To be honset, in a fluffy place like hop, i thought there would be alot of intrest in this thread.
Maybe the rest of the world dont really care © 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
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