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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

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Posted:angel

As some of you know I've been here for a long time ( biggrin ) and I've had the oppertunity to meet a lot of other HoP users from all over the place on my travels, or on theirs.

I have recently been thinking about the way people express themselves and communicate online in relation to how they do in real life.

We complain all the time about how limiting this medium (text) is for successful communication - how easily it can be misinterpreted and (for some of us) how difficult it is for us to convert what we think and feel into writing. However, from meeting so many of you face to face I have come to a different conclusion:

That most of us are more eloquent online that in real life.

Erm......... do you agree and why do you think it is?

Personally, I spend more time writing posts/responses/question online than I would if I had asked them in real life - meaning they are much more articulate and better thought through. Some people are very shy and feel pressure face to face that is alleviated using this intermediary method of expression. I have also found that when I meet people who I have corresponded with a lot online I am more attentive and more responsive to them than perhaps I would be if I hadn't had any contact with them before.

I think this medium allows us to be more expressive, more meaningful, and allows us to reveal more of what we truly think and feel than is often possible in real life.

x Fluff x


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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:mmm thats a tough one online you can respond to everything someone says and have a parallel streams of thought being persued, however people often mis read things they read online/have a more emotional response (because the nets much safer to be emotionally open on)

theres also that whole misunderstanding because of the nature of language not mention that u get to miss out on all the non verbal cues and its much harder to hold the focus of the conversation on anyone point. then again the safety factor of the net allows people to say things without so much fear of the response because if youve had enough u can just walk away at any stage and choose not to acknowledge things that upset you

i recon its a bit of a double edged sword


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Written by:
how easily it can be misinterpreted and (for some of us) how difficult it is for us to convert what we think and feel into writing.



What are you trying to say?

I find it hard to tell if some talks more or not. After all, not everyone posts on every thread and I guess most people look at more threads than thet post on. If some one in real life were to walk upto someone listen to them and walk off again it'd be odd.I find it hard to tell if some talks more or not. After all, not everyone posts on every thread and I guess most people look at more threads than they post on. If some one in real life were to walk up to someone listen to them and walk off again it'd be odd.

Conversely, people in real life dont just vanish only to come back again the next day and carry on the same conversation.

I think I talk more in real life than I do on HoP, but the things I say here are more thought though (hard to believe I know).


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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

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Posted:Written by:
Conversely, people in real life dont just vanish only to come back again the next day and carry on the same conversation.



very good point smile


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

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Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:I agree with most of that Ros.

I'd say that, for me, some aspects of communication are better on-line, and some are better face-to-face.

Certainly, IMO one isn't superior in all cases to the other.

Good thing about on-line is that you can think about the wording of posts- if it's something controversial or involving emotive issues, you can save it somewhere for a few hours, then go back after time away and see if you still want to post it.

-----


It's interesting that this has come up as last week I went to see Jo derry and we talked for a couple of hours. He asked why I rarely posted on threads he started, which was something that I'd wondered about myself.

My answer was that I didn't understand the issues he was talking about- for some reason they just go over my head.

He then went over a recent thread he'd posted and was genuinely blown away that I wasn't getting what the posts were talking about. I could see, when he explained them, what they were getting at; but it was plain to me that there was a lot of stuff going on beneath the words, that I was just blind to.

The issues themselves weren't overly complex, in fact with a lot of them it's stuff I've thought about myself and agree with Jo on; it's just the form they were expressed in.

That's no big problem, I guess I communicate primarily in words and logic- I'm sure that many people who communicate differently would have problems understanding some of my posts too.

But it's interesting to see that this is an issue with on-line communication, and probably explains some of the confusions that occasionally arise on HOP threads.


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towery
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

towery

Member
Location: Wakayama-ken, USA

Total posts: 32
Posted:Personally, the big difference between my writing and my conversation comes down to revision. When I'm talking, my line of thought is just moving along, and sometimes I carelessly choose a word that doesn't quite fit what I mean to say. Then I either have to press on and risk being misunderstood or break the line of thought and go back to revise and restate. When writing, I almost always get the tone/semantics/etc just how I want them because I have the chance to review and change things before submitting them as communication. Of course, I think that this has a tendency to squeeze a lot of the situational and spontaneous humor out of things, but it's a trade-off. I guess I'd say that I'm probably more eloquent when writing, but more glib and funny when talking.

"To my delight, I discovered that poi are amazing movement exploration tools. They are guides. They are teachers. They are like Yoda, only smaller and on strings." --Nick Woolsey, also known as Meenik

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:Dave - talking to you the other day was one of the things that made me think about this. I could barely understand your accent for the first 5 minutes (lol the sore head didn't help!) but having read your posts I was already aware how much you had to share.

I am slightly concerned that I may not so easily have spent so much time talking with you (and with others from here) if I hadn't already been exposed to your thinking/writing from HoP.

hmmmmm.

I don't consider myself judgmental, though maybe sometimes I don't put enough effort in?


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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Good thread FnF...

I believe people can be more eloquent and expressive online because you have the time to edit and delete. Also, sadly, people find it easier communicating with a static object than with a person who may reject them or misunderstand.

I know the internet has it's benefits, but I think this is one of it's faults. Communication and conversation are suffering because we spend so much time behind a computer screen, not practising those skills.


Getting to the other side smile

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:Seems like I am in the minority here, but my thoughts online are almost identical to the ones I would say to you in person. I write in the same fashion as I speak, so it just comes out the same. I rarely edit my posts for readability and I only occassionally make sure they make sense and actually flow.

So, I'd say not everyone alters their thoughts just because this is an online medium.


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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

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Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:smile

minorities are good - makes for better discussion.

So from the people you meet from HoP (if you have) do you think that they express themselves similarly online and in real life too?


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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:i think in the same boat as spritie.

i dont edit anything, i type whats in my head. hence the bad spelling and grammer smile

i reckon the only difference is that i can get a bit shy sometimes. rarley around other spinners though.


Love is the law.

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:Written by: fluffy napalm fairy

So from the people you meet from HoP (if you have) do you think that they express themselves similarly online and in real life too?



I'd say yes, but I also have known most of them as good friends before ever joining HOP, so I might not be the best one to ask that. I've only met a few HOPers over the years, but they seem the same to me in person as online. Maybe I just assume that because that's how I am though.


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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:I agree with a lot of this thread - there are deffinitely positive and negative issues with on-line discussions.



I think a major factor that has been overlooked is regional dialect differences. This applies to word use, grammar, and importantly sense of humour.



It is easy to offend people when nothing but an off-the-cuff joke or logical explanation was the intension - but I guess smilies help this a little smile



I deffinitely strive to be as clear and concise as possible with my language. This means I can get more of my point across in less text (that has more chance of being read through). If I wrote everything in unambiguous language I would be writing an essay on each topic which would be ignored.



As dave pointed out though, everyone has a different level of understanding on each topic - I think this might me a factor why people don't post on everything they read.



That's always the case however you explain stuff, and is also apparent to a lesser extent in real life. At least in real life people can look at you like this confused and you know to re-explain. People don't tend to do that as much in public environments (internet, lectures, bars).



Jo. smile

EDITED_BY: Jo (1110376410)


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think the TOPICS are so radically different when I talk with you all online as opposed to when I talk in real life.

I'm pretty sure if you sat folks like Lightning and Dom and Cole and Sprite and Spitfire down in a round table discussion and threw political questions at them, they'd answer VERY similarly to how they do online.

But how often do we really do that?

Of all of the people on HoP I've met I think I've only had serious face to face semipolitical conversations with Dom, Molly and Cole (whereas I've chatted my butt off online to many of you).

I actually think it's nice that we get to have these indepth conversations on HoP so when I see most of you for 5 minutes a year I can focus on the hugs and howareya's.

I don't think I'm different online and off. I think the situation is different and therefore brings out different sides of my personality.

I'd much rather debate US foreign policy when I'm bored at work than when I'm in a field full of you beautiful spinners playing. biggrin

In response to FNF. I think I CAN be more eloquent in person if the situation warrants it but I'm rarely in a situation in person with any of you that warrants it. Then again, how often do you get to proofread what you say. wink


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:personally I think it depends on what you are trying to say.



if you are trying to express technical stuff that doesn't require drawing diagrams or such, and if you are having a strait non-emotional debate, then writing is superior because you can take time to review your thoughts, edit afterwards, no one distracts you from your train of thought, and there is a written record to refer to if you forget your point - luxeries you don't have when speaking face to face.



on the other hand, if you are trying to express something emotional or deeply personal, then no amount of text will replace the cues you recieve from seeing body language and hearing tone of voice.


-v-

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Dragon Princess


stranger
Location: Here, there, elsewhere

Total posts: 50
Posted:I think there is a huge difference between 'eloquent' and 'communicative'. (I know it's semantics, but on-line, I think semantics are everything when you're not face-to-face).

I am certainly more eloquent on-line (when I have time to post) but communication goes so far beyond what can be expressed in words and syntax, and I am sure I am more communicative in person.


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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Yep smile

Love is the law.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: ado-p

Yep smile



ubblol wink

hug

cole. x


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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:ok lots of things for me to say.

Firstly this isn't supposed to be a 'how easily things get mis-interpreted' thread - things do and it's been discussed a lot before, along with grammar, spelling, dyslexia, dialect etc. I was pondering the levels of expression - the way that taking the time to write stuff allows us to reveal so much more than would usually ever come up.

Dragon Princess - 'Communicative' was a bad choice. I agree a hundred percent. I might see if I can edit the poll. I meant eloquence, articulation, precision etc which very much comes down to the 'ability to edit text not speech thing'

Communication is massively different.

Written by: NYC
I don't think I'm different online and off. I think the situation is different and therefore brings out different sides of my personality.



Again, I agree smile

Written by: vanize
if you are having a strait non-emotional debate, then writing is superior because you can take time to review your thoughts, edit afterwards, no one distracts you from your train of thought,

...if you are trying to express something emotional or deeply personal, then no amount of text will replace the cues you recieve from seeing body language and hearing tone of voice.



Perfectly put (imo) and very close to my own take on it.

Still - one question unanswered.

If you hadn't read what people had said online, would you ever realize how much they had to say?

Obviously the knowledge of things they have said here will influence you when you meet them, but if it hadn't how much potential communication would be lost?

So much of the stuff that we open our hearts about on here wouldn't ever be expressed in years of friendship unless the right situation arose - so when we meet we already have these ideas and knowledge of people (not set in stone - not judgements, just more interpretative options in a way)....... How many people pass you by that have so much inside that you never get to? And how lucky are we that we get to see and share some of that.

Random fairy ramblings.

ubbrollsmile


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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:eep - I can't take 'communicative' out of the poll frown

Sorry.

My bad - though a very relevent mistake biggrin wink


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

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Location: Austin, Texas, USA

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Posted:well, in my case you could probably go months knowing me without ever finding out I am a physicist - I avoid talking about physics as much as possible away from work - but on HoP i have to drag out that part of me on a regular basis to explain things I would probably never get into in a social situation. does that mean people would think I had less to say in person? perhaps - I can be pretty quiet in person, at least till I get to know people.

-v-

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Written by: fluffy napalm fairy

How many people pass you by that have so much inside that you never get to?



I guess everyone I see in the world ever....I'll try to count them... wink


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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:Written by: vanize
I can be pretty quiet in person, at least till I get to know people.



Quiet? You? confused I've never seen you not try to meet people, even those you didn't know, especially if there is a cute girl involved. wink The physics part is very true though.


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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

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Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:Written by: vanize
does that mean people would think I had less to say in person? perhaps - I can be pretty quiet in person, at least till I get to know people.



yeah that's just what I was wondering about.

Sym - thanks for the input - very useful. ( possibly wink but I'm not sure....)


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Hehe, Well I didn't want to sound like a complete hippy and say that everyone is beautiful no matter who they are...but thats more or less what I was getting at.

You're right though, I'm sure I don't talk to some people because of the way they look/talk/etc. It's bad I know, but everyone does it to some extent (think about the pro/anti chav type convos...)


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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:Written by: vanize

well, in my case you could probably go months knowing me without ever finding out I am a physicist - I avoid talking about physics as much as possible away from work - but on HoP i have to drag out that part of me on a regular basis to explain things I would probably never get into in a social situation. does that mean people would think I had less to say in person? perhaps - I can be pretty quiet in person, at least till I get to know people.



rolleyesoh please thats such a misrepresentation you stayed with me for what ........ a whole weekend and i think we managed to cover topics like bits of quantum physics, how the brain stores memories, parallel universes, time travel, cybernetics and a whole bunch of other oddities. twas a most excellent weekend that biggrin


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:But if you hadn't read some of his posts on HOP, would you have known to even approach those topics with him, Ben?

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:yeah i didnt used to read social so much at the time i didnt even know he was a dr, hehe i remember walking back along "the murder mile" in hackney to my apartment only to discover vanize did all sorts of researchy stuffs and being most pleasantly suprised smile

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:i dont think u need to have studied areas (although it can be a big help) to be able to discuss ideas about them, nothing quite like a fresh perspective. while sitting round a campfire at falmouth miss fairy of the fluffy variety and i had a really cool chat about robots, ai and the future of society with the possibility of everything being supplied in abundance and how it would relate to happyness. it made me questions alot of ideas that i had about happyness even though ai and robotics isnt her field.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men

Written by: vanize

well, in my case you could probably go months knowing me without ever finding out I am a physicist - I avoid talking about physics as much as possible away from work - but on HoP i have to drag out that part of me on a regular basis to explain things I would probably never get into in a social situation. does that mean people would think I had less to say in person? perhaps - I can be pretty quiet in person, at least till I get to know people.



rolleyesoh please thats such a misrepresentation you stayed with me for what ........ a whole weekend and i think we managed to cover topics like bits of quantum physics, how the brain stores memories, parallel universes, time travel, cybernetics and a whole bunch of other oddities. twas a most excellent weekend that biggrin



that's because you were picking my brains and doing it in the right way to make me respond!


-v-

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

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Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:yeah - mine too!

biggrin

lol - hug I think I made you question stuff you usually just gloss over though - which is always good.

I wish I had a tape recorder for that conversation, and the other ones at yours, cos there's a lot of stuff there I want to mull over some more smile


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