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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > twist, tangles and understanding hyperloops

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Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:last weekend I went down to visit matt which finally inspired me to sit down and figure out hyperloops (something i've been meaning to do for a good few years). The story starts with a maths lecher back in my first year about twist and tangles this was well b4 i came across any hyperloops so promptly forgot it all and it's take me till now to go back and refigure it out.

I should probably say that even though it's based on maths Ive tried to explain it so that its not to mathematical (probably just be my english skills which confuse you more).

the fundamentals are that theres two type of knot a twist and a tangle. All poiest prefer twists cos if your poi are twisted up (with no tangles) then all you need to do is pull the handles apart and the poi spin round and untwist themselves. tangles on the other hand are more annoying to tangle or untangle your poi you need to jump the head of the poi over the knot (which quite often goes wrong and you end up make a even bigger knot).

right any questions? no, i'll carry on then

rule 1 you can only start a knot with a twist

rule 2 you can't untwist a tangle or untangle a twist.

rule 3 a untwist will only cancel out a twist if there is no tangles between them and a untangle will only cancel out a tangle if there is no twists between them.

a good example of this is

twist, tangle, untangle, untwist will come out.


twist, tangle, untwist, untangle won't come out.

right thats all the maths out the way now it only needs to be applied to hyperloops


simplest to explain they consist of 2 twists followed by 2 untwists

buzzsaw hyperloops:

for simplicity say we start on the right side of the body. All the beat where the poi are on the right side (b4 they comes into the central buzzsaw) are twists, the central buzzsaw beat then go tangle, untangle, tangle, untangle... (this is why you must have an even number of central beats) then when you take them out on the left side all the beats are untwists.

the most basic buzzsaw hyperloop is twist, tangle, untangle, untwist.

also possible is doing extra central beats- twist, tangle, untangle, tangle, untangle, untwist

doing extra outside beats- twist, twist, tangle, untangle, untwist, untwist

or my latest favoritest move 1 right side, 1 central, 2 left side, 2 right side, 1 central, 1 left side - twist, tangle, untwist, untwist, twist, twist, untangle, untwist.

turning with buzzsaw hyperloops:

when doing the central beats of a buzzsaw hyperloops you can turn 180 so you doing a backwards buzzsaw hyperloop this turns the tangling poi into the untangling poi and now the left side adds twist and right side takes them off. if you want to come out facing this direction you must do this turn after an even number of central beats otherwise you get something like this - twist, tangle, untangle, tangle, (turn) tangle, untangle... and the tangle b4 the turn won't come out.

the only people i've seen doing this are matt, psi, and oli of which matt and psi add an extra right side beat b4/as they turn so it looks like- twist, tangle, untangle, twist (turn) untangle, tangle, untwist, untwist. where as oli I think does the more purest- twist, tangle, untangle, (turn) untangle, tangle, untwist

right that all i can be bother to write up now i'll sort out all the butterfly crap tomorrow and sometime in the future i'll right all the up properly with pretty pictures and am afriad alot more maths wink

any questions welcome

Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:But if you turned the handles 90 degrees then it'd be exactly the same. Of course they'd then tangle up...

Or at least I think so. Gosh darn it we need some software to model all of this!

"Moo," said the happy cow.


playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:Yeah to right!!

You're right, they do tangle up if you turn 90 degrees and you need to turn again to make them come undone again then repeat repeat. You can see them in oli's "not a sock in sight vid" being done very nicely

So with that in mind I agree completely biggrin beerchug

Let's relight this forum ubblove


old hand
Location: Bristol, England
Member Since: 22nd Apr 2002
Total posts: 717
Posted:***Wishes he wasn't in Thailand so he could add to the confusion***

I agree with everyone about learning them. ubbangel

Everyone seems to have different ways of learning them that they claim is eaiser!

I say go with what works tongue

I've taught a few people out here and one bloke picked them up in around 5 minutes. (Then lost it again about half an hour later after too much grining and bouncing biggrin and this is thailand so there was alot of grinning! )

"**grumble*spuriouswindmills*grumble**" - Coleman
"if poi was only for girls there wouldnt be many good poi spinners...." - Nx


Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: Dunc

you mean control over all 5 points yeah? wink

nah... I meant over 4 points.. handle, handle, head, and head... the nexus is an indirect product of the other 4.. the only time you are worrying about control over the nexus is when you don't have control over the others.. I look at it like this.. when you keep your hands locked.. the poi remain locked.. the only thing there is to control is the nexus.. when you move your hands, the poi fluctuate, so you end up over control of everything else..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


currently mending
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 15th Jul 2003
Total posts: 493
Posted:Definately the clearest description of how tangles work... And easy enough for the non-maths minded to understand as well... I'm impressed Mr Tim

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.


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