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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:hello hello,

ok so today i was ment to be practicing trinity but got distracted into atomics, got myself a nice turning atomic weave now so i thought 'hey, let try a tangle!'

wot i did was have both poi spinning inwards in split time, left in wall plane and right in side plane, I bring the right over the left and catch on the left outside. then switch arm positions (witch is a 90 degree switch of course) to exit.

questions.

is this the best way to start on them I have a few problems, the least of which is getting the bugger to come out proper atomic, cos pulling it across seems to mess the planes.

is the inverted plane the same, between the arms, and if so how does the hyp behave, dose it orbit (tangling and untagling at the same time) as with a weave buzz hyp, or does it wind up like a butterfly (cos atomic hyps seem to be a bit of both)

im guessing for this instance the hyp orbits, because it catches on the outside.

if the poi are going diffrent directions (this all gets a bit confoozing) i.e. your left hand spins inward and the right outward, then they catch in the invert position like buzsaw, so they orbit on the outside position?

I think full understanding of atomic hypes would greatly improve understanding of hyps in general, cos in theory they are the same but with more pronounced plane diffrences.

I think i might have started another thread about this, but it was a long time ago, so new imput greatly apreachated.

Ta,

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:anyone else wanna field this?
i'm trying to make sense of it.
we haven't really established definitions here and there's too many variations. if you can wait til after the holidays i'll get to defining these eventually in my inverted weaves thread.
til then, when describing planes, in addition to the position (wall, etc.) could you change all the "inward"(?) to clocwise or CCW from the fingertips? and which atomic weave do you mean?
you can do both, orbit or tangle, depending on the weave, and i don't know which drag is breaking your planes but just as a guess for a solution try aiming your wick as it enters the tangle so it has an entry angle more akin to the drag angle, pehaps drag the wick into the tangle. and change the timing a bit to see if that helps.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

somehow arashi I dont think there is anyone else to feild thease, apart from dragon, but ill get to that later...

ok, some expansion.

directions.

above i was taking about the wall plane poi (in the left to start) going clockwise and the side plane poi going anticlock. the reason i say inwards cos both poi are comming from the top to meet in the middle infront of you, like a forwards butterfly but split out.

to weave i do this in same time, taking the right over then under the left and threading through. you turn 90 degrees so theat the right poi is now wall plane and the left is already ontop of the right side plane.

but to hyperloop i use split time, and Im tangling by putting the right over the left. Ill definatly have a look at the entry angle. ive been try to pull it into the buzzsaw position and a weird thing happens, the poi seem to untangle as they are going round the buzzsaw. props to dragon for the pointer.

this post is more of an exploration than anything, but im having a few more ideas, I just thought that maybe im try to drag with the wrong hand.... humm.

T wave


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-><- Kallisti

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I'm avoiding this entirely since noone understands anything I talk about that has, IMO, simple terms.. this is getting to a degree of complexity,where if I can't film it, then I would just be adding to the problem..

If I come up with anything constructive or useful, I'll post.. but I don't forsee that.. I don't play with these a lot.. and the discussions that's I got into with dragon got NOWHERE... and dragon usually understands me.. and so when me and dragon are at odds.. I feel there's no hope in me reaching anyone..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)

Total posts: 625
Posted:Okkkk im going to try real hard to make an effort... wink

First off i want to say that "I AM NOT DOING ATOMIC HYP FROM AND ATOMIC WEAVE". thank you.

For most people who can already do afew airwraps and hyps, the way I do this move is real simple. Its not really the move its more of a concept, because once u master it you can use it in alot of different ways.
Most of the time when u hyperloop buzzsaw the string dont even tangle/ twist up they just rotate around the axis/ nexus with the exception of afew airwraps (i think).

The type of loops im doing are what nx termed "multi tangled" or "over tangled".

Here is how i learnt it...

Hang ur left poi and keep it hanging now wrap the right poi and tangle it "over tangle" then when they are still hanging there tangled, pull your hands appart and just see what happens. (A cookie to anyone who can tell me *except nx and rev*) And yes the are just hanging there

Now do that again, but only let them up tangle 3 times (still hanging there) and then spin them through your arms (flip it over and over) like u would a buzzsaw (while slightly pulling ur arms appart) but DONT force the buzzsaw, just experment and see what happens, cause technecally they should spin to untangle and also MOVE (not spin) in the buzzsaw position.

OK ill get back with more nonsence when i can figure what im trying to say...untill then just try 4 urself, nx got it overnight...but he is a genius :P


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Burning Brain


Burning Brain

eye shifter
Location: between my headphones

Total posts: 321
Posted:oo ooo i know.....nothing. am i right? do i win?

If I could be granted one wish I would ask for all the questions of the universe.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:ubblol that's funny.



nx can you do this move by airwrapping right next to your handles? start with that. here's one that's not too hard that's really close to what you're trying. there's a serious lack of more advanced terms here so you'll just have to try all the wrap variations until you get it. here you are staring from a position that will give you 2 beats to unwrap on the right but anyways just like a normal maxi plus airwrap inversion... 1)ccw left wall plane and cw right side plane, bring right -under- to outside of left ccw to wrap [at 8:00 in the left plane], let both do a full circle, your hands should look like a 3 beat, 2)ccw left _inverted_ wall plane and ccw right inverterd wheel plane, 3) left outside wll plane, right out side plane for 2 beats.

try to do more body movement and less dragging. throw the left hand hard so it keeps its momentum

get them near the handles with shorties and then replicate with true mid chain wraps with longer chains

if that doesn't work i'll try to come up with an easy one that crosses right hand over if that's easier for ya


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Please tell me there is a video... I can't quite figure out what I'm supposed to be doing!

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:beef, there is no video.

thanks arashi, i understand and will have a look. was playing this stuff loads over the weekend and manged to clean it up a bit, can cleanly come from right hand on top left side to the opposite side and come out atom, still havent gotten the inside to work in any other way than the one posted by dragon, but ill have a go at what you said.

Ive also got a few more thoughts about atoms in general, but im going to start another thread for that, tomorow.

night.

t wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:This loop looks lovely, thanks for showing us at the weekend, now I just gotta try and land it!! ubblol biggrin

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Ahh shoot... I don't suppose someone could explain what is meant by "atomic" could you? Does that mean when the poi plains are 90 degrees from each other?

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Yes smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:well then i assume you're taking the right chain to the left side and grabbing the left chain from above (cross and grab) and pulling it all over to the right. which is the easy way to cross and grab. see if you can cross and grab from the bottom, using the right chain to grab the left at 8:00 in left chain plane, and keep the atom going on the left hand side. and stop there. if you can do a stall in the middle of a bfly inversion hyperloop then it's the same idea.
the hard part is to get the right under to the cross and grab without messing up the timing, [i think some would call part of the technique antispin but it's basically a microinstant of ttn parrallel] crossing the right under in normal time then staling the left a hair so it will be ready for the cross and grab, it has to be goin slower to make the knot
i'll be back, i don't wanna throw out too many new definitions at a time but there's another airwrap that you can do that helps to get the right hand under but i want to see if i'm making any sense yet


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i learnt all my tangly stuff atomic to begin with

it's much much easier and more natural like that

after all, it's impossible to tangle with parallel planes, innit?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:I dunno, i find all the weave tangles apart from airwraps (which do a diffrent thing, they actually switch the planes, where as what im trying to learn keeps them) happen pretty much paralell and its a matter of catching one poi with the other as your bringing it across, but thats just me.

I agree that all tangles are 3d really, but proper 90degree planes is another country as far as fitting them round each other is concerned.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Butterfly hyperloops are much easier to do atomically than regular ones smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:hmm.

sudden realisation that have always been doing them atomic.

and worked back to parallel from there.

oooh i wish i liked the way atomic weaves looked. there appears to be loads to learn in there that my unconciousaesthetic brain decides that they're ugly and makes me do sth else entirely mad

smiles
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:sorry but if you don't like the way they look then you haven't seen them done RIGHT cause the atomic hyps made a girl throw her panties at me a couple of years ago at a show. and that's the litmus test.

slaps forehead
yeah that's why from the beginning of the airwrap discussions here i've been talking about trinity. if you're airwrapping then you're probably spinning trinity. the airwraps naturally fit in the trinity family. blue you may have been spinning them atomic at first but that's a bit more angle than necessary. but i'm sure you do them just fine, i don't mean you're wrong cause there ain';t no right i'm just talking geek. anyway for the beginners reading this learn airwraps trinity cause you can mess up without getting a bad knot, and then flatten your planes if'n you wanna once you understand the knots.
.
nix, about the atomic hyps, there's about five bazillion variations here, and i can't help unless i know what's wrong! the one i posted is a good place to start because of the math but if you can't get it in those variables we can alter it to something easier. did you get the multi beat wrap frozen on the lower left yet?


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:trinity is vertical planes meeting at 120 degrees ish innit?
EDITED_BY: simian (1100028664)


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:umm well the planes within trinity meet each other at 60* so ie. a WW is a equilateral triangle (so transitions from normal planes to trintiy are 120* instead of the normal 180*. maybe that's where the 120* is from?) and they don't have to be vertical

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

i havent managed to get the tangke to sit there no. frown

I was gonna start an atom thread and lay down some terms and stuff for atoms in general so we could discuss this more easily, but then I got f*cked off with posting on hop and just getting sh*t for it (familiar story maybe) and so I havent.

To be honest I think i need more time just doing atoms, your example is in what i would call backwards weaving atom, and im [censored] at this still. running before walking again. I can see theres got to be a gazzilion diffrent ways, especially when you start thinging about pulling the planes around mid nexus, but i think 3d spinning is just too damn huge anyway, I am a begginer again.

thanks for the help tho, maybe an email on the way.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:I'd chuck my panties at Arashi for his Atomic shizzle nizzle.
He'll Blow the shield wall with his family atomics
I was seriously impressed with them last new years.
Stuff that I'd known should exist and be explored, but never touched, and never seen anyone else explore
and to me it looked like hed completed it
smile
dang cool
dang clean and nicely mindblowing bit of theory
nice one dude smile


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: arashi
maybe that's where the 120* is from?



no, it came from my atrocious basic geometry

the inside angles of a triangle add up to 180* not 360* dumkopf! redface



i find it very hard to get tangles to work when the planes are meeting at 60*

it's way more steeply angled than the atomic ones (meeting at 90*)

(the least steep angle is 180*, the most steep being 0*, the steeper the angle the further the poi must travel (as the planes shift to their mirror image) to untangle)



unless... perhaps you're rotating the triangle instead somehow



*tries some stuff* ahahaaaaa! you're rotating the goddam triangle godammit!



or am i getting it all backwards?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:i'm not blowing _any_ walls without a contract.
my god was that only less than a year past? seems like so many moons ago! hug
.
completed my booty. right now working on those friggin inside crossover inverted atomics. can't airwrap any of those if you hung my ex-girlfriend by the fingers til i got em. iow words i'm not really trying too hard budumpum, touche'... too busy choreographing to play much. but i did have a "run in circles screamin i am the shizit" moment a couple weeks ago. realized that inversion is the event horizon of a _multi-dimensioned_ cone. duh. silly me, to not assume it would be such! ubbloco


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Playing with these now - the butterfly airwrap version is pretty easy, less so when you hyperloop it. And the direction change every 90 degree turn is odd too - but will come in handy I reckon.

Now to try some of arashi's over and under stuff smile


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Ok... same direction, starting left hand left wheel plane CW, right hand front wall plane CW. Just going into the usual airwap maneuver doesn't seem to work very well, but if you bring the right poi underneath the left one and go into the tangle with that poi on top it seems to have a nice smooth tangle at 45 degrees and exits cleanly and still atomically.

Is this anything like what you were talking about arashi. It seems to correspond to crossarm tangles...


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:jumpin jesus on a pogo stick. somebody finally gets it. pass the tequila.
yes from what i can see you are both right. simian does it feel gooey? it should. thanks for the epiphany, i think i typed that exact phrase here a long time ago about flipping the triangles but nobody understod.
spiral yes trinity is basically halfway between atomic and normal "person in a box" planes. atomics have less forgiveness cause the crossovers can flip too far, creating a different knot. with trinity the cones flip around and exit clean. try starting an airwrap doing trinity and slowly open the angles auntil you have atomic, keep going further and the crossoverts will tangle. see?

as for crossarm, keep the right hand on the bottom as you bring the atom out to the right hand side. it will untangle in one beat but it's harder to pull off. see why i started nx on the first one? you can do it the way he was trying but it's a mindfudge.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:dammit you guys always start understanding me right when i'm hella crazy supposed to be working... still got 1:30 of poi dancing to choreograph by fri. and i keep messin around!

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:your time is greatly appreciated smile

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Hmm, and whether the poi that leads under and into the tangle then goes inside or outside the poi determines whether you airwrap or hyperloop. This is fun smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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infinite


infinite

member
Location: ashland OR

Total posts: 110
Posted:Ok I got another new trick. Do weave forward then cut teh teh half weave with your right hand, teh left poi is now swinging back up at the poi in your right hand. Cross the strings right in the middle and then throw your left hand back over your right hand and continue the weave with your wrists, teh whole mess flips over and turns into the hand placement to spin out the 3 weave on my left side. This is highly repeatable.. The other variation is to let them cross and leave your hands on the left and then try to backwards 3 weave out of it. It goes over my head and buzzsaws when it untangles. YAY.. I have spent so much time with my poi at full length, that when they get shorter I dont have as much controll, even with heavy practice poi. I will try more soon.

dont make peoples heads turn, give them whiplash.

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Page: 12

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