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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:I've just been giving our website a much-needed over-haul - both in terms of content and how it looks and works.

I'd be really grateful if you could take a look and give me some feedback on how it looks, how/if it works, problems you've encountered etc etc.

I've only tested it on my machine with IE6 - I don't have Netscape, Mozilla or any other browser so I have no idea if it works on them or not - likewise, I've only tested it at 1024x768 and 800x600 (a standard minimum?).

I'm learning Dreamweaver as I go... ubblol

www.burnttoast.co.uk


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Zim
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Zim

Former Raver Invader... Not sure what i am now...
Location: Southern California, USA

Total posts: 284
Posted:I use mozilla as a browser and it looks good to me.

so props to you!


Clean for 6 months and counting... ah yeah, that's nice.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:I'm using Mozilla Firefox at 800x600 and everything looks great except that the main section of the page (the bit with all the info) is slightly further right than the menubar.

Not a big deal really, but it looks slightly out of place and it means that the scrollbar across the bottom is there when it doesn't really need to be.



here's a picture of what I see in my browser

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1098660067)


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:I use IE6 and my pooter crashes every time I come here.
It also crashes every time I go anywhere else as well
It's a crap computer.

No, seriously,
The site seems fine, I don't have any more problems than I have anywhere else.
What happened to the list of people on line on the front page though?


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Written by: Lillie Frog

What happened to the list of people on line on the front page though?



umm

I meant my site - www.burnttoast.co.uk - not HoP... smile

But cool - all seems to be working.
I need to re-design the nav-bar which is just plain ugly, and sort the random scroll bar thingy too.

Shweet


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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:wheres the search function? ubblol

ok, ill be blunt. feel free to disregards anything you wish.

1) what bov said - on my screen the main pic is aligned to the bottom right corner - which looks wierd.

2) performance page. it look wrong with those two pictures on the right hand side. they are so small, and the surrounding background image is so 'busy' that they dont jump out at you.

if you have an image - you want it to jump out with that 'wow' factor

3) general colour scheme is awkward, in particular the grey. it looks like the pic has been pasted on a random colour as a filler, additionally it detracts from the 'wow' factor of the main firewool image. if you use black instead of the grey it should focus attention the primary image rather than distracting the eye.

4) the bar at the top isnt centred - although that may be my browser?

5) past events page. if find it looks more effective to put quotation marks around reference - to someone quickly scrolling down the page, it makes the quotes 'jump out' at you more. the quotes will look even better if in a different text - maybe something with a bit less bold. and make sure you do quotes in italics. reading through - youve done a few of the above things but theres nothing consistent.

6) since those images on the right arent doing anything useful, how bout expand the scrolling centre bit to the right? your only using 1/3 of the page [horizontally] for all the info. that should hopefully give a bit more balance as well.

7) those photos in the scrolling thing look good - mainly because you can differentiate between them and the background.
if your trying to sell, have some really good unique photos - you dont need 4 small photos of 1 event. have 1 really good shot from each event [if possible] attached. you mentioned african costumes. cool. where are they? that really stood out that phrase - wheres the immediate example.
widening the scrolling thing to the right will make it easier to lay out the photos as well.

8) can you highlight ALL the titles of the events in the scrolling thread? '50th birthday party' doesnt really stand out - its a title!!

9) jennie emersons quote is hard to read - its a quote, it needs to be read straight off rather than displayed in an art vertical format.

10) the past events menu bar on the left looks great - why the wierd 'please select a perforance' on that horrible grey? you have heaps of fonts other than arial bold. talk to a graphic designer - they know a stupid amount about fonts - because they know how important font selection is.

11) workshops page - good, but those photos are the same - either put about 1 cm surround black so they really stand out, or insert them in the scolling bit. as said before - can you widen the scroll bar and alight the images to the text - then as someone scrolls down, they see a new photo and think 'wow.' you need a constant supply of pretty colours to maintain a surfers attention.

12) photos page - lovely!! see how those 3 pics really stand out on that greyish scrolling background? the linked gallery - the blacks a bit too dark - maybe white text? doenst really matter too much.

13) weekly meets - now that pic the right doesnt look too bad - it jumps out at you more,

14) with the previous pics ive mentioned, is it possible to link them to a large blown up image? or maybe to the pics page?

15) finally, the menu bar across the top. go to any company website, and what the first thing you should see - what should you remember? the company name and or logo. when i opened the page, the first thing i saw was the horrible blue menu bar across the top. then i saw the wirewool photo.... and THEN i saw the name 'burnt toast'

this is the name that needs to be remembered - but its hidding at the top of a flurry of sparks. this is supposed to be the title of the page! put the title at the top of the page - stand alone. go to the top of the page, see how distinctive the home of poi logo is - despite being even smaller?

on that note, you also need to not highlight the top menu bar so much. if youre in love with blue - go for a darker more subtle blue, but reduce the font size and de-bold. maybe even change the font? your font for the troupe name is quite a silly text with lost of curves. may use a text less boring for the menus.

anyway, thats just my opinion. if youd like more suggestions let me know.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Cheers Den, exactly what I was after smile

1) what bov said - on my screen the main pic is aligned to the bottom right corner - which looks wierd.
~ Grrr - it's bottom left on mine...

2) performance page. it look wrong with those two pictures on the right hand side. they are so small, and the surrounding background image is so 'busy' that they dont jump out at you.
~ They were a quick addition with old thumnails - better pics soon smile

3) general colour scheme is awkward, in particular the grey. it looks like the pic has been pasted on a random colour as a filler, additionally it detracts from the 'wow' factor of the main firewool image. if you use black instead of the grey it should focus attention the primary image rather than distracting the eye.
~ Agreed, the scroll bar colours are from Version 1 of the site, need to change them smile

4) the bar at the top isnt centred - although that may be my browser?
~ It's horrible, need to do a good one.

5) past events page. if find it looks more effective to put quotation marks around reference - to someone quickly scrolling down the page, it makes the quotes 'jump out' at you more. the quotes will look even better if in a different text - maybe something with a bit less bold. and make sure you do quotes in italics. reading through - youve done a few of the above things but theres nothing consistent.
~ Yep, will fix...

6) since those images on the right arent doing anything useful, how bout expand the scrolling centre bit to the right? your only using 1/3 of the page [horizontally] for all the info. that should hopefully give a bit more balance as well.
~ Not useful?! They look pretty wink The new pics will be more eyecatching are were just used to show different things, but yes, will make them link to full size images.

7) those photos in the scrolling thing look good - mainly because you can differentiate between them and the background.
if your trying to sell, have some really good unique photos - you dont need 4 small photos of 1 event. have 1 really good shot from each event [if possible] attached. you mentioned african costumes. cool. where are they? that really stood out that phrase - wheres the immediate example.
widening the scrolling thing to the right will make it easier to lay out the photos as well.
~ Agreed, just being slack smile Will update.

8) can you highlight ALL the titles of the events in the scrolling thread? '50th birthday party' doesnt really stand out - its a title!!
~ Well, they're links which is why they're white, whereas the others arent....

9) jennie emersons quote is hard to read - its a quote, it needs to be read straight off rather than displayed in an art vertical format.
~ Will fix

10) the past events menu bar on the left looks great - why the wierd 'please select a perforance' on that horrible grey?
~ I can't remember now... Will fix

11) workshops page - good, but those photos are the same - either put about 1 cm surround black so they really stand out, or insert them in the scolling bit. as said before - can you widen the scroll bar and alight the images to the text - then as someone scrolls down, they see a new photo and think 'wow.' you need a constant supply of pretty colours to maintain a surfers attention.
~ Will have a play

12) photos page - lovely!! see how those 3 pics really stand out on that greyish scrolling background? the linked gallery - the blacks a bit too dark - maybe white text? doenst really matter too much.
~ Yeah, laziness on my part, forgot to change the CSS props for those pages.

13) weekly meets - now that pic the right doesnt look too bad - it jumps out at you more,
~ Good smile

14) with the previous pics ive mentioned, is it possible to link them to a large blown up image? or maybe to the pics page?
~ Yep

15) finally, the menu bar across the top. go to any company website, and what the first thing you should see - what should you remember? the company name and or logo. when i opened the page, the first thing i saw was the horrible blue menu bar across the top. then i saw the wirewool photo.... and THEN i saw the name 'burnt toast'
~ Yeah, the menu bar is horrible, the wirewool photo has "Burnt Toast" on it, so it was the second thing you saw, will make it the first though by pre-loading it.

Looks like I'll be busy this evening smile


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Unleash the hounds of web development!

Do what he said, and then bagsy I get to do an assaination on it next.

I'll just say that I really, really, truly, utterly, dislike text appearing over an image. And your menu. And only being able to see a small bit of text.

Actually, you should start over again. The problem with 'learning Dreamweaver' as you go along is that everyone I know who designs a good site designs it in Photoshop and then codes it once they're done with the design.

If you need coding help then you'll find my rates very reasonable wink


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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Yes, I know the menu bar is about as attractive as UCOF wink

Text over images? What's wrong with that? Other than being hard to read? biggrin

Photoshop? For websites? Don't you need to have design skills for that?


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Spinner of poi
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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted::hangsheadinshame:



Its true.





*cant find the link he wanted*

*found it*

IT'S ALL TRUE!!



:biggrin*


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Lillie Frog


Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales

Total posts: 558
Posted:Written by: Durbs

Written by: Lillie Frog

What happened to the list of people on line on the front page though?



umm

I meant my site - www.burnttoast.co.uk - not HoP... smile





Doh! Stoopid me.
I've been to your site now and looked around it a bit.
This is what I think.
Mostly I like it.
It was very interesting.
The photos were really good, I looked at them for a long time.
I don't know nothing about computers and stuff, but I look round the net a lot and I know what I like and what I find easy to look at, so here is what I think, for what it's worth.

The scroll bars. The colours, I didn't like them, I kept getting confused about wether I was at the top or the bottom., and this blue colour kept happening and I don't know why.
Thescrolling bit in the middle of the page. Mostly I don't like things that scroll in the middle of other things. For one thing it makes the column of text narrow and that is harder to read.
The navigation bar at the top is fine by me, easy to see, easy to read. However, sometimes when I clicked a thing it only changed part of the page and I didn't realise it had happened and kept clicking it waiting for the whole page to change.
I thought that it all loaded pretty quick and my poot puter didn't crash once.
I enjoyed looking at it, especially at the pictures, and reading about the places you had been.
I don't know if any of this is of any use to you, but there we go anyway.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:also the scroll bar in IE is horrible, still using the same yellow from the old site. Here's the css for a charcoal scroll bar if j00 want, perhaps change the arrow color to the same blue as the top nav?


scrollbar-face-color: #5B5B5B;
scrollbar-shadow-color: #647275;
scrollbar-highlight-color: #686868;
scrollbar-3dlight-color: black;
scrollbar-darkshadow-color: black;
scrollbar-track-color: #0C252A;
scrollbar-arrow-color: #000;


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Are you aware that your site doesn't function at all for anyone who's got their security settings on 'high'?



Not that unusual these days, and, to be honest, a lot of web site designers don't care about these things.



But, to me, and many others, it is an issue, so I'll say a bit of stuff; bear in mind that this is only my opinion, but it's one arrived at after a lot of thought.



Firstly, the problem is that you're using javascript etc for navigation (or more likely, Dreamweaver slipped it in automatically).



That's totally unnecessary, there's lots of really, really good, informative sites out there that refuse to use scripting, and which can be accessed by those with secure systems.



The negative aspects of javascript/activeX etc is that they are the prime mechanisms by which viruses/browser hijacks/spyware etc are able to infiltrate systems.



Security settings on 'high' disables scripting and thus prevents almost all virus/malware attacks.



The downside is the hassle of adjusting settings/adding sites to the trusted zone when one arrives at a site like yours.



Whilst I'm sure that your site won't have any dodgy stuff on it, there is a sense in which you're part of the problem by using scripting unnecessarily.



If this does concern you, then the options are to learn HTML and do the site from scratch; alternatively, maybe Dreamweaver has options to not use scripting?



------------



For an example of an excellent site that refuses to use unnecessary gimmicks that pose a security threat check out: -



http://www.sheldonbrown.com/
br>


The site has a whole is well known and loved as possibly the best on the web for info on all aspects of cycling. I've seen this site linked to from so many cycling and unicycling forums. People really respect it because it not only has loads of info on cycling/repairs etc, but because that info is presented very clearly and the site works on all browsers, regardless of your security settings.





"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:Indeed. When I click on your link, my IP blocker blocks packets which otherwise would be sent to http://www.pumpalleyproductions.com
.

If any can access that that URL I'd be interested to know, because my IP blocker doesn't block that one, but my browser says it still cannot be found.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:no luck on that link, looks like the web srv isn't setup correctly

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom

Total posts: 15965
Posted:You could use more punctuation biggrin



There are huge swathes of words with no break in them. You have to put commas in so people get a chance to breath wink



Other than that it appears to be some kind of fire-spinners website. and you know how much i dislike those.....


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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