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Forums > Social Discussion > Sympathies and thoughts to the Russian Families

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:Thought I would start this thread after reading the news yesterday about the hostages being held at a school in North Ossetian town of Beslan in Russia.

My prayers and thoughts are with the hostages and their families in this dark time.

I hope and pray that you all make it back safely into the arms of your family and friends.

For those of you who do not know what I am talking about please read the article: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10638371%255E401,00.html
br>
400 students and teachers were taken hostage by what is believed to be Chechen rebels.

They have threatened to kill them all.

Most of the kids taken were under 14 years of age...

Please bring them home safely..... frown


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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:It's desperately sad the extreme lengths some people will go to for their cause.



I am hoping the situation is handled well and resolves with the safe release of all those taken hostage.



I just checked the beeb website, and lifted these paragraphs:



"The attackers are believed to have laid trip wires, saying they will blow up the school if stormed by police.

The gang has also threatened to kill children if any of them are hurt by security forces, a regional official said.

"They have said that for every fighter wiped out, they will kill 50 children, and for every fighter wounded, 20," North Ossetia's Interior Minister Kazbek Dzantiev was quoted by Reuters as saying."



Thoughts with the families

xx


Getting to the other side smile

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Frulein
Frulein

Fireotographer on Hiatus
Location: Cork, Ireland
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 284
Posted:I just read an article about it in a German newspaper and I cannot find words to express how sad it made me. The situation seems to have gotten worse: according to this German newspaper 7 people have already been killed (it said: "luckily no children"...).
I am praying for those people and their families but the situation looks very hopeless. The article said further on that those terrorists threatened with suicide and were prepared to kill all of the hostages if the Russians wouldn't pull their soldiers out of Chechenya and release rebells from jail.


"I see," said the blind man.

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:It's a horrible situation - unfortunately the Russian Special Forces have a very bad reputation when it comes to hostage situations - remember last year when rebels took hostages in an opera house? The Russion forces pumped it full of nerve gas and went in guns blazing - about 100-odd people died, 40 of which were the hostages (There was then a lot of specultation about the gas used and why so many people had died from it)

Keeping everything crossed for a good ending to this horrible situation frown


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:it's just been on the news saying that they might have underestimated the amount of hostages.. they said it was more like 1000 now..

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:The first thing I thought when I heard this news yesterday was the same as Durbs. The images of the people in the opera house came flooding back.

I can't imagine how frightened the hostages are or how sick their families are feeling as I have never been in either position. All I can do is cross my fingers and hope that it all ends peacefully and that on-one else dies.

Sometimes I think the human species is doomed to failure. Extinction caused by its own hand.


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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Frulein
Frulein

Fireotographer on Hiatus
Location: Cork, Ireland
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 284
Posted:It looks like 26 women and children were allowed to leave the building. Still just a drop in the ocean with 350 hostages still captivated without supply of food, water and medicine.

"I see," said the blind man.

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:162 hostage died in the last hostage situation in Russia and all because they pumped in that nerve gas and then couldn't get the antidote to them quick enough with all the gun fire and stuff.



There was a news article from one of the victims (an Aussie guy) who had been there and he was talking about how he fears for these people that are now in this situation as well.



Though they are saying that they are not going to use the nerve gas this time because children have more adverse reactions to it than adults.



So at least they are using their brains on that one.


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Elanna
Elanna

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.
Location: NJ or DE, USA
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 2293
Posted:Erm, I hate to be picky, especially in a serious thread like this, but a friend of mine wanted to point out that it wasn't nerve gas, but an opiate based knock out gas. He would like to add that he's not defending the Russians, just making a distinction between an absolute evil act and a really evil act.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

Pies Jesu Domine *whack*
Dona eis requiem *whack*

Come join us and chat - we're bored! irc.newnet.net #homeofpoi

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:Well then the news articles need to get their facts right....or maybe they are just trying to cover up the truth.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:every time i see an update of it on the news the same thought runs through my mind, censored

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:Oh Dear God.........
Radio 4 news just said it appears that the school has been blown up. The say it looks like the roof has fallen in and badly burned children have been seen being pulled out of the building.

Madness......


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:From The BBC



Breaking News

EDITED_BY: ado-p (1094206931)


Love is the law.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Oh god, what a tragedy.



I will be very interested to see how the rest of the world responds to this 9/11 scale attack in a country whose economy has been further decimiated since the fall of communism - and also how Russia responds to its attackers.



I'm not sure of the details yet, but it sounds like the troops have stormed the building (which was their mistake last time). Again, this could have been a mistake - but it must have been an impossible situation - a mined and booby-trapped school full of tiny children with no water for two days.



The blinding fanaticism of extremists and the arrogance of human beings over who deserves to live or die makes me ashamed.



Clare xx


Getting to the other side smile

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Well, it seems to be over.



Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be as many people taken hostage as the 1,500 estimate I heard this morning.



400 children injured (at the minute) and close to 100 dead.



Two and a half days of gut-wrenching fear and uncertainty for the parents (I think there are a few parents on here... I'm sure you guys can sympathise). Children permantly scarred by men with guns arriving in their schools.



Can anyone offer a circumstance when lifting a gun or bomb against another human being can be justified??



Take care

xx


Getting to the other side smile

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Posted:Written by: Firepoise
Can anyone offer a circumstance when lifting a gun or bomb against another human being can be justified??


Sadly, the Chechen Terrorists felt they were justified. I don't know what I would do if someone invaded my land, killed my people...

Or what I would do if I were a parent or relative of any of those that have so tragically died. I'll bet there are some of them that would like to see the Chechen's driven into the earth now!

My prayers go out for peace!!! And for the souls of all those lost. frown Both Russian and Chechen!


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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:If I believed in God, Patrick I would pray with you. All I can do is be sad at the utter waste of life. To all stories there are more than one side. Its a shame that more often humans can't listen to the whole story instead of just the part they want to hear.

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Of course the Chechens felt justified - people had lifted guns and bombs and entered their country - nobody could kill so many children for no reason!

Sorry, the comment I made was a kindof despairing plea for a utopia where guns and bombs don't exist at all (watching these events unfold over and over again in different countries around the world always makes me very sad).

And I suppose it isn't even the guns and bombs.
We were still fighting and killing each other before they were invented.

Bah, the quicker the earth is struck by a bloody large asteroid and we're all wiped out, the better.

On that happy note,
take care
xx


Getting to the other side smile

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Lyra
spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 314
Posted:thank you medusa for starting this thread, its so easy to just hear the numbers on the news people need to discuss it and realize these are people dying, not just statictics

i got really upset in class today when we were talking about this, its just so horrible, humans(generally) think they are so advanced, it makes me mad when people say"look how far weve come from the caveman " when stuff like this is still happening, yes, you can say"look how far weve come" but dont forget"look how far weve got to go"

i am so sorry for the children, parents and teachers involved in this, to be used as tools of a rebel group who has no humanity

can you imagine, a thousand people in a gym for days with no food no water and no bathrooms?

apparently the conditions in the gym were attrocious 100 something degrees inside, horribly unsanitary

i cant even believe it


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:could someone please explain to me briefly the Russian/Chechen situation?

i mean, i know theres something about who own the land and that sort of thing, but i really dont understand anything else. i'm sure i could type it into google, but i doubt i would understand the answer!

so if someone was able to give me a dumbed-down version of the politics (is it political?) in it, i would be willing to pay you in hug and kiss


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:The lastest from BBC news says 250 killed and over 600 injured and that the terrorist planted the weapons over the summer in the school.

But it doesn't say it was Chechen rebels. Infact they say there were 10 Arabs amongst the terrorists killed. I presume the rest were chechen but... nothing's been confirmed on the BBC website anyway.


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Hey there Rouge,

check out this link for a basic outline of what is going on in Chechnya:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3293441.stm
br>
If you ever have any news-related questions, the BBC is always a good place to start as it usually gives a concise background to major news stories (it also links to external connected sites... but you need to speak Russian in this case!).

www.bbc.co.uk/news

Take care
xx


Getting to the other side smile

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:Thanks for that Firepoise, that was really helpful
hug hug hug kiss kiss kiss

Pink, i also heard that there were a number of Arabs involved, and the source i heard it from commented also on the possibility of links to Al Qaeda et al as an East Vs West conflict of cultures. ie; in this case they weren't nesessarily fighting for Chechnya alone, but also trying to get the Russians (as a non middle-eastern nation) offside so that they can effectively turn the world into two camps.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:I heard on the news today that they are still pulling dead bodies from the school. So they are expecting the body count to rise.

Doesn't it make you just feel like crying?

I watched on Friday night when the breaking news came through about the building roof collapsing and hos some of the hostages were fleeing while being shot at by the terrorists.

It depresses me more each day to realise that this is the way life is now and unfortunately you just know that there are going to be more cases like this in years to come.


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Lyra
spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 314
Posted:damn Medusa, it is so sad, and these are children, they did nothing to deserve this

its horrible that this is the way people see fit to deal with their problems


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:I just read a story about a six year old who was shot in the stomach as his mother passed him through a window to get him out of harms way. The mother was killed.

Now the boy is in hospital and all he does all day and night is call out for his mother.

It's so terrible.


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BurningByron
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 10th May 2002
Total posts: 340
Posted:This is a terrible terrible a event...... that has been widely publicised.



As scarey as it may sound, this event pales into comparison compared to less publicised atrocities eg. The systematic rape, torture and murder of children in Cambodia, the many random bombs that killed and maimed children in Iraq.........



Not to take away from the horror of this event, but I wonder what is really happening in Chechnya...???


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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Frulein
Frulein

Fireotographer on Hiatus
Location: Cork, Ireland
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 284
Posted:We saw the funeral of a girl that was shot in the back (!) when she tried to escape! How perverted do you have to be to shoot someone from behind not to mention a child? I don't get it... it makes me so angry and sad...

"I see," said the blind man.

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Rouge Dragon
Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 13215
Posted:i heard that even Al Quaeda are refusing to have anything to do with it cos its even too henious for them. dont know how true it is though, but they were condemning the terrorists for attacking children.

i have nearly cried watching the news so many times.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Burning Byron,

I don't think it's a good idea to compare loss of life in the terms of one being less bad than another.

The child sex and abuse of children in Cambodia, the sanctions and murder of children in Iraq and other abuses around the world (Sudan particularly) are all horrific, and we react to them with horror, despair and disbelief when we first hear about it.

But that's the point... we hear about these terrible things and really, there's nothing we can do. We feel frustrated and upset and need to let it out a bit. And then something else happens and we feel upset again for the those involved.

We don't forget about the other places, but this is another story to remind us what human beings are capable of (as though we could forget).

It doesn't take away from the loss felt by each child's parents.

If you want to find more about Chechnya, follow the link I posted above for the background. But you are correct, the Russians have been guilty of terrible human rights abuses in that province (the rebels didn't just do this for the sake of it).


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BurningByron
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 10th May 2002
Total posts: 340
Posted:Written by:
I don't think it's a good idea to compare loss of life in the terms of one being less bad than another.



I suppose my point was not, "yeah that's bad, but check out this!". I believe that murdering children for a political reason (or any reason) is pretty much as f*cked up as it gets.
My thought that I tried to get across was:
"hmmm atrocities like this have happened fairly regularly in the recent past but very few of them have drawn the level of sympathy, shock and horror that this one has. Should we not cry for a situation we do not see dramatised on our television???"

Looking back on my previous post, my feelings werent really expressed very well, sorry!!!

After posting my wonder at what the Russians must have done to provoke such an attack, I did a bit of research and found some very disturbing stories...


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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