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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So from the other thread...

Why prejudice?

I view prejudice as the junction of fear and arrogance. If someone is afraid of, say, gay people and is too arrogant to even consider that their beliefs may be founded in falsehood, then it becomes hatred, intolerance, cruelty. It's amazing how some people are so arrogant that they will hurt others rather than examine their own beliefs.

Burz called me a liar in a PM. He called me a bald-faced liar who was too weak to face up to it. Now, there's no reason behind that statement. I was a liar, yes. Back when I was in the closet and too weak to face up to my sexuality.

But Burz was so arrogant and so unwilling to examine his beliefs that it became hatred and even cruelty. So he decided that he'd rather believe that an Eagle Scout would lie than believe that he might just possibly be wrong about something.

That's my view and that's why I have no sympathy or empathy for bigots. That's why I refuse to "see their point of view." I mean, Hitler was the king of bigotry. We see what happens when people try to do that.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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iForgot


newbie
Location: san diego ca

Total posts: 23
Posted:hi lightning



you make a good point.



prejudice is a subject that confuses(and frustrates me)

I feel that I am constantly a victim of and also guilty of prejudice, but its hard to say. In cases where violence is not involved prejudice can be considered as just an opinion or feeling.



I don't think there is any way to solve prejudice because as individuals we will all form opinions about eachothere both good and bad. there will always be cases where I don't like sombody because of the way they act or their opinions or just conflict of intrest no matter how wrong I think it is to do that. I can't help but form opinions and have feelings about those opinions. The difference is that I don't (or try not to) act on those feelings.



I believe that everybody is guilty of prejudice, I think its human nature. The difference in the people that we call prejudice is that they act on their opinions and feelings in negative ways such as verbal or physical abuse.



I think its bad to lash out at sombody who makes a prejudice remark(violence is different) because their goal is to cause you stress and to take revenge on them in anyway is a confirmation that they accomplished their goal and provokes them to further action.



I understand your frustration and I hope you feel better soon.

EDITED_BY: iForgot (1090765597)


Im not quite sure what it is but it came out of my nose.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Oh dear,

Looks like Lightning and I are going to try to explain something to each other again... wink


I used to be the same a few years ago, Lightning. I found my acceptance of other peoples differences had increased a large amount, and I found I could accept pretty much anyones differences from alogical point of view and mostly emotionally as well.

BUT as I was certain my tolerance had increased dramtically, after some soul searching i discovered that my intolerence had also increased dramatically!

How is this possible? Basically, I found that those who were less accepting of others than i was, I had no time for, and became arrogant and angry towards them.

To most people, this makes sense, but when you view it from a distance, it is STILL intolerance.

Someone who I perceive to be a bigot, is still entitled to live in this world and not be predjudiced against for their beliefs, just as much as someone from minority has the rights.

I know I am likely to get flamed for this, but, if we TRULY believe that everyone should be treated equally, then those don't belive in equality, STILL come under the umbrella of everyone!

Otherwise, we ourselves, may be selectively hypocritical wihtout even knowing it...

A simplification is like the following summary...


----------------------------------
I believe everyone is entitled to believe what they wish without prejudice from me or anyone else in the world....

EXCEPT for those who act with prejudice and/or do not subscribe to my belief as above.
-----------------------------------


It's a bit of a problem, really isn't it...?


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Charles, here's the difference:

There are things that you can change and things you can't. In a way (and I'm donning my kevlar suit for this) religion is one of the things that we arbitrarily include in non-discrimination statements that probably fits the least. That's because religion is a choice. We do have government-sanctioned discrimination against religion, in fact. I give you the Branch Davidians.

But the choice to refuse to accept others as humans is just that: a choice. Race, national origin, sexual orientation, etc. these things aren't choices. And that's the difference.

Hate me for what I choose, that's fine. But hate me for what I was given as I came out of the womb and that's not OK.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Lyra
SILVER Member since Feb 2004

spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA

Total posts: 314
Posted:prejudice isent always born of iggnorance/hatred/denial

much of prejudice comes from the issue of what your used to, so they can come from how you were raised and what your community was like, what kind of etnicities and beliefs you have lived with

people fear what they dont know or understand, it isent always an issue of hatred

i know i have prejudices, but i also am sure i have ones im not aware of, i try to fight them, because everyone should fight their weaknesses

peace>>>>>>


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Lyra...Good on you! smile

Recognising that our exposure and previous experience (or lack of them) is one of the biggest reason for the way we percieve other people and races is a HUGE personal step.

The process you've now embarked on will continue on for your entire life...

Lightning...Lyra's example is just one where a so-called prejudice is more the result of an environment than of a personal choice.

I actually feel its a little short-sighted to assume that every bigotted person in the world sat down one day, and decided "I'm going to be a racist, and not treat other races like I treat my own". To imply that they have made a personal choice implies some sort of situation like that, which you have to admit, sounds a bit improbable.

Have you ever noticed that the most bigotted racist people are those who had had vitually no exposure to other races/cultures? The concept of the average Texan is a good example (but once again, we must be careful not to stereotype Texans, else we fall into our own trap again).

Then we move on to perhaps the tiny minority of bigots who have chosen to be racist, consciously, in order to hold their groups together against a common (make-believe)enemy. Hitler is a good example of this, many people agree it was unlikely he was truly an anti-semite, but found an easy, wealthy target to fit his own ends with his supporters.


I'm not trying to excuse these people whose approach to life we find unpalatable, but hypocrisy is such an easy trap to fall into, and feel everyone of us needs to be aware when we are judging people on stereotypes and misnomers, even if we don't like them anyway...

I am not asking you to agree with me, but can you undertstand the way I see things...?


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meep
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

....
Location: Midlands - nr cov, United King...

Total posts: 344
Posted:*nods and agrees with things*

I live on a council estate (government maintained housing, so poor/less educated people tend to live here).

I have a friend who lives on this council estate also, and she is transsexual. You wouldn't know if you didn't know already, but when she made the transition, she didn't move house (she owns her house, but because it's on this estate, any other house in town was pretty much out of her league financially).

Her next door neighbours have a son that's about 10 i think. She transitioned 4 years ago. About a year ago i was there once, and she was outside sitting on the front step smoking (I'm a non-smoker, she's nice to me). The son had to walk past her house, but when he saw her on the step, he burst into tears and refused to walk past.

His mother's comment? "don't worry, HE won't hurt you".

Obviously many things have been said about my friend to instill that level of fear in the child. I tend to think that the kid (given the demographics of where we live) doesn't have an awful lot of choice *but* to grow up prejudiced.

That's just one example of the way prejudice forms and so yes, i have understanding for many people who are prejudiced. I don't like it, and i will challenge it where i can.

Two forms of prejudice perhaps? One based on not understanding, and one based on full understanding?

For example - take homosexuality:

Not understanding - people genuinely believe this is a (bad) choice, and have never had access to anything that says otherwise.

Full understanding - People who know that there is chromosomal evidence for this, people who know that twin studies appaer to provide genetically based evidence for this, and people who know that homosexuality spontaneously exists in just about every subspecies of mammal on earth, but STILL choose to think that we choose it.

You have a chance with the first person, but much less with the second..

Unfortunately( wink ) people are entitled to believe what they like.


"But what would you do with a brain if you had one?"

Dorothy Gale

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stickman


World Champ Procrastinator
Location: ||...lost...||

Total posts: 580
Posted:good point lyra

id say i have my own prejudices against those ppl who hang around subway stations drinking beer all day (in vienna at least).
but often a prejudice or hatred arises in someone because of the way they were brought up or because of the environment they live in.. take a boy who is harassed by older homosexuals (just an example). eventually that boy might grow up to become homophobic merely because of an experience he had and through no fault of their own..

-floris


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Well, let's talk about prejudice as a product of environment vs. choice for a second, then.

I was raised with the prejudice that people who are transgendered are crazy, that they're sick in the head, and that they are simply maladjusted homosexuals.

Then I met Ben. Ben was my professor of neurobiology when I was a grad student. An M.D., Ph.D. neurobiologist, Ben had been Barbara just 4 years before.

And then I met Joan, one of the professors of ecology, who had been John just 4 years before. (The running joke was that the balance of power in the biosciences had remained the same because Ben and Joan had swapped places!)

Rather than react like Burz, by closing my mind and strengthening my resolve to believe as I had, I chose to learn about TG in general. So I started doing web searches and corresponding with TG's who were at various stages of moving in various directions. I figured that if I was going to be a doctor, I'd better learn about this, rather than remain ignorant of it. And learn I did.

I was raised with a lot of prejudices in my family. My father hated all Japanese because he was a WWII veteran. I rejected the prejudice. Same for a lot of prejudices I was raised with.

Why? Because I believe that all people have an intrinsic worth of some sort, and until they do something that causes me to lose that fundamental belief in them (like running off on idiotic bigoted tirades), I would rather accept my prejudices and try to work around them than simply pretend that I'm above having them.

And that makes me a better man than David Duke.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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kiteman


Flying high!
Location: At the beach.

Total posts: 245
Posted:I don't normaly get into debates like this as there is never a winner.
But trying to force your opinion on everyone else makes you no different. You maybe right in what you say, I have no problem with you there and am not tyring to argue with you.
People are people, with their own thoughts and beliefs, that will never change.
There are things I don't belive in but that is my opinion, no one elses.


If everything seems under control, your not going fast enough!

It's not the size of the wave, it's the length of the ride!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Ok, but where do we draw the line at tolerance?

Should we tolerate someone like Hitler or Milosevic? Why or why not?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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iForgot


newbie
Location: san diego ca

Total posts: 23
Posted:violence and abuse

Im not quite sure what it is but it came out of my nose.

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kiteman


Flying high!
Location: At the beach.

Total posts: 245
Posted:But Hitler, Milosevic, Binladen etc, were all trying to force their opinion on others. At the cost of peoples lives.
It's trying to stop it before it happens is the problem.

Education not Opinion.

To many weak minded individuals that follow the herd and to many do gooders feeling sorry for everyone.


If everything seems under control, your not going fast enough!

It's not the size of the wave, it's the length of the ride!

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meep
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

....
Location: Midlands - nr cov, United King...

Total posts: 344
Posted:Mike, i think that some of the difference between you, and another person might be that you're intelligent and you WANT to understand.

Others are less intelligent and are either happy to accept what others say, or just don't care.

And there's "ooh, easily available scapegoat", because whilst someone ELSE is being it, you're not... (the royal you smile)

You can *believe* what you like, but you cant *act* how you'd like.

I might believe that anyone who reads books is evil, and i can either challenge that, or leave it there in my head. Common decency however should dictate to me that it's not acceptable for me to go around saying that and trying to make book-readers' lives a misery.


Personally i try to think that if I've formed a strong belief about something - "gays choose to be gay" (or not), that I've done some research about it to back up my opinion.

FWIW, i believe that to some degree that you can choose to be gay or not. Sort of. If someone is bi, but chooses to only have relationships with one gender, then i feel they've chosen to be (act) gay/straight. In the same way, i think that some gay people are gay because of a reaction to sexual abuse/rape, and that some straight people maybe also. Of course, the big one to make you straight is religion (tho i must say, it didn't cure me wink).


"But what would you do with a brain if you had one?"

Dorothy Gale

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Pali
GOLD Member since Jan 2003

Pali

journeyman
Location: Ubud, Bali, Indonesia

Total posts: 84
Posted:In my experience, we feel all the negative emotions being discussed in this thread when a person or group of people fails to meet an expectation that we hold for others, and maybe of ourselves as well.



Religious intolerance is highly common because of the highly structured morality system involved in western religions. Following the current bible, which is far removed from the logos first taught by Christ, modern Christians tend to lose sight of love when faced by those who have fallen victim to the temptation of sin. Instead of feeling compassion, they are overwhelmed by the fear that the presence of sin, if allowed to continue to exist, will taint all goodness in the world.



For those less religious to have intolerance against Christians and the like is equally wrong. It is our responsibility to demonstrate compassion, and most of all, love with no terms. To feel true love for mankind is to be able to hold that love for everyone no matter what (s)he does or says. This is much like the love of a parent for a child even though the child makes bad choices, some resulting in terrible results, the parent still loves him/her.



In closing, sorry this was so long, but it is something I spend much of my time studying and I believe I have some understanding on the issue. I would love to discuss this further pm me or something smile



Hoping we can all find love,



Polly


Genuineness only thrives in the dark -- like celery.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:What if I say that I distrust all members of a certain religion because of a specific belief which is central to the religion?

For example, Scientology and the belief that all medicine is poison to the body and that all doctors are evil.

Am I prejudiced? Am I a bigot? (Go ahead and say "yes." I won't be offended. I might pelt you with dill pickles, though. tongue)


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:Sounds like you can be used as a prime example of what others were saying earlier about product of environment, you're a doctor you take it personally smile

I think the difficulty with the whole entire issue of prejudices is that in this era we are in contact with so many people, so many different people and nearly all the time, that although it would be lovely for everyone to be completely compassionate and understanding towards everyone else all the time, how open minded do you need to be to do that? you'd effectively be playing a god-like role, would you not?.... We are essentially animal - and small, not all encompassing - and although we think, we also work instinctively to protect ourselves from danger - unfamiliarity represents potential danger/ conflict. We can learn to understand, yes, but can't expect that to apply to everyone, all the time, there will probably always be prejudice in the world, and there will always be conflict, how do you stop it? how do you get people to be as open minded and compassionate as to embrace the whole world?

*more questions than answers...*


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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Lyra
SILVER Member since Feb 2004

spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA

Total posts: 314
Posted:being fair and open minded isent just limited to questioning and considering every belief and policy you come into contact with, you must also be able to question your own beliefs and prejudices

id say that very few people choose to be prejudice, in their mind they know they are "right" and thats all it takes

this makes be wonder beause if they believe they are right and and those who disagree with them do to then that kindif prevents any real change

im not making any sense now,

peace>


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I think there's a limit to "open-mindedness." Being open-minded doesn't mean that I need to seriously consider every single point of view. It is OK to set some basic limits.

For me, my basic limit is: "Do no harm."


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:I totally agree with you Lyra, I think being able to question your own beliefs and prejudices is not only beneficial, but i think it helps you become more fully aware of what those beliefs actually are. Some people simply won't do that, maybe can't, perhaps societal/ family pressure prevents them? So I suppose the problem is, how do you get people to do their own questioning? and if they do, who's to say they come up with the answer that most people would like to see?

Increased information plays a part i suppose, but it seems to me although people are becoming more open minded generally, equally there seems to be as many people becoming more protective of their views... which leads to greater extremes in opinion...

I may well be rambling completely off topic now, but i do think that it's an extremely interesting debate, even if it seems to constantly lead around in circles. I'm all for sustainability, the environment, peace and love in the world, just wonder what on earth can be done about getting it smile


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:people with prejudice store in them lessons for us.
people that piss us off allow us a valuable interaction and teach us, though they may likely be unaware of the service they do us.

we are like rough blocks of wood,
rubbing silk against our surface will not carve us into beautiful sculptures,
it is with the harsh abrasion of sandpaper that we can become what we can be.

I have met incedibly shallow firetwirlers who have taught me almost as much as the firetwirlers i love smile


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:Can anyone honestly say that you are not prejudice in any single which way!



As much as I think it would be lovely to live in a world with no hate no judging of any one individual it just isn't going to happen.



I am not homophobic in any way (my best friend Cameron is homosexual and I love him to pieces)...I am not racist and am often quick to take up an argument in regards to certain religions being evil (eg - after the 9/11 bombings everyone saying muslims were pure evil).



But I admit to my own prejudices...I admit that sometimes walking down the street I might look at someone and think "s/he shouldn't be wearing that" (Mind you I would never say that outloud)...so that makes me as guilty as the next person for being prejudice.



And no matter how much you say that you have a totally open mind if you seach I am positive that at least once you have laughed at someone's expense or been repulsed by someone who looks or acts differently.



I myself am still affected by prejudice everyday due to the way I look, no one is game enough to come up to me and ask why my face is scarred they just point and make funny little signals with their hands thinking that I can't see them.



I do think that education will help people to overcome their prejudice thinking...but honestly I think people of that kind of mind set are generally not interested in being educated...they are happy living in their ignorant world.


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TeeJay


TeeJay

member
Location: Malaeimi, Am. Samoa

Total posts: 75
Posted:To tell the truth, prejudice itself is in the eye of the beholder.
Personally, I myself have learned a lot. I have been the recipient of prejudice as a white person in black (Compton) and Samoan neighborhoods, just as I have seen my afakasi (half white half Samoan) children suffer prejudice for being dark (from whites) and from being too light (Samoans).
Not all whites and not all Samoans.
I am also Christian, which most of my family doesn't much like - they believe that Christians are all "holier-than-though" bigots.
Many of my Christian friends don't like that I support my kids involvment in Samoan culture and dance - saying it's "pagan worship".

If I tell you that I'm 43, female, white, and from a fairlywealthy background, does that change your view of me ?
Before I began interacting on this list, I pretty much thought of non-Samoan fireperfomers - especially those who were young , with tattoos and piercings, as irresponsible, spoiled, yuppies who wantes to shock their parents. What I found is that "most" of you are responsible, morally very conscious, and totally wonderful people.

It's all in the mix - no one is truly as they appear, and only God (whatever name you call Him by and whether you believe He's there or not) knows the heart.
Everyone has prejudice.....I HATE people who harm children.
I HATE people who cheat, steal, and lie. But perhaps what I don;t know is that the child had a gun, that they the cheater's wife/husband was abused or ignored, that the thief had to feed his family, or that the liar was protecting an innocent.

Sorry for rambling, but I've been on both sides and have found that only those who constantly question their own morality are possibly moral.

Teejay


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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Lightning...you say you were raised in a very prejudiced environment, but the environment you are raised is not the only environment in your example...

-----------------------------------------

Then I met Ben. Ben was my professor of neurobiology when I was a grad student. An M.D., Ph.D. neurobiologist, Ben had been Barbara just 4 years before.



And then I met Joan, one of the professors of ecology, who had been John just 4 years before. (The running joke was that the balance of power in the biosciences had remained the same because Ben and Joan had swapped places!)

------------------------------------------------



How do you feel you would be if you had NOT met these people? Or if your orientation was different (i don't know when or that happened but it does have any impact of some sort).



Myself, I was truly homophobic until I met a gay guy at my local juggling club. After a few attendances, he seemed like just a normal guy, and the fact that there was only one of him and a dozen or so of 'us' smile , meant i did not feel as threatened as I had with previous groups of gay people.



I am now not homophobic, and while I would like to say that is because of the sort of person I am, it due to BOTH who I am and the manner in which I got to know a gay male.



If I had not met him, or anyone els elike him, I have no doubt I would be homophobic today.





Please excuse my ill-informed summary, however, I feel you might still be prejudiced yourelf had you not met those two people at University.





However, to argue with myself, the only thing that will change your mind is to meet one of these prejudiced people, in a non-threatening environment, and get to know them well before finding out the extent of their prejudice...then, you may again change your opinion, and be more open to those who are less open than you...



Despite whether you agree with me or not, does that make sense that this is the way I currently view the world?


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ieuan
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

holy man
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

Total posts: 110
Posted:I think that sometimes we take others people opinions to heart because, as someone said before(Charles I think), it's a personal issue for us. Someone else's value can be offensive to someone else if they choose it to be. Bigotry comes from fear and lack of education, but I also think that some people just choose to be that way and there is nothing you can ever do.

As a christian I recieive just as much predjudice as the next group. Judging by what I have seen said about religion on HoP, I would be considered born again, right wing, conservative, and narrow minded. Most of my "values" would offend people here on HoP. Frankly, by what I have seen posted about "my kind" and "my religion" in general, if I met a group of you all, I probly wouldn't reveal my religious stance outright for fear of being stereo typed. Why should what someone think or their value set cause them to be labed as a bigot?

Without getting into the huge debate, I think abortion is wrong. But what did I do when my friend came to me and told me she was pregnant and she wanted me to drive her to the abortion clinic? Did I tell her she was wrong? Did I tell her she was a murderer and going to hell? Did I preach to her and get out my Bible? Certainly not. I told her that although I could not take her because I thought it was wrong, I would be there to support her emotionally and be the best friend I could. She completely understood and was OK with my decision. Nothing changed with our friendship. I was able to hold my belief and still be a loving person. At first glance my belief put me into a certain category, when if fact that wasn't the case. Just because I didn't agree doesn't mean that I still couldn't be a human.

I know it sounds as if I am defending christians, and I am. But you can take the same line of thought and apply it to any group you want. Of the 1000 people in a group that are decent, there will always be the 10 that have to hate. I think the line between personal view and bigotry have been blurred. Just because I don't agree with something someone is doing or disagree with what they think doesn't mean that I am a bigot and can't love the person they are and be friends. Some people you can agree to disagree with and still maintain civilness/friendship with. To those that you can't or to those who hate, you just have to move on with life and enjoy the people you do get along with. biggrin

Light and Love-

J


Gather your harps from the willow trees, dust off the ancient strings. Call the bards and prophets, let them sing healing and freedom. Let light and love flow from the strings, colors of revelation.

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meep
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

....
Location: Midlands - nr cov, United King...

Total posts: 344
Posted:Implicit prejudices.....

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
Try some of those, you might be suprised.

The two i did said that i had no automatic preference for colour in people, but a slight automatic preference for the US over the UK.

I did the others months ago in a social psych lab, but i forget the results now.


I agree, everyone has prejudices. Being able to admit them, and question them is good. Being prejudiced doesn't make you a bigot (in my view).

Lynne


"But what would you do with a brain if you had one?"

Dorothy Gale

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Charles, you're right that environment changes it...but here's the point: some people, when faced with the reality that their prejudices might be wrong, accept their prejudices and change their views. That's what I did.

Others are so resistant to changing their views that they just get more vehement, even given the same stimulus.

I accept that I have my prejudices. I am not colorblind, I see just fine, thank you. But when I accept that fact, it allows me to care for my minority patients better because I am actively on the lookout for prejudiced behavior on my part.

I have to remind myself that all humans are humans, and until they do something that costs them my respect, they are people, regardless of the cards they were dealt as they came out of the womb.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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meep
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

....
Location: Midlands - nr cov, United King...

Total posts: 344
Posted:Mike, we need more doctors like you!

smile


"But what would you do with a brain if you had one?"

Dorothy Gale

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Lyra
SILVER Member since Feb 2004

spiny norman
Location: Cincinnati,damn it, USA

Total posts: 314
Posted:beautiful posts all around

i know im not completely with out prejudice, and will probaly never be, but all i can do is try to overcome the prejudies i do have

this makes me realize on of the things i like about the internet, specificaly home of poi, you cant be descriminated as easily for your skin color, sex, gender, age, aperance,

peace>


if you think that our kiss was all in the lips, come on you got it all wrong man, and if you think that our dance was all in the hips then, oh well, do the twist -The White Stripes

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Xopher (aka Mr. Clean)


enthusiast
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA

Total posts: 456
Posted:Anyone who is awake and paying attention will be confronted with facts that don't match their beliefs about the world from time to time.

Some people verify the facts, and then change their beliefs about the world to include the new information.

Others deny the facts. This type of person exhibits what I call "Acquired Stupidity Syndrome," which is not a lack of native intelligence, but a process of rejecting new information. It is impossible to reason with such a person because they've already decided on all the answers - when the other type of person knows they don't even know all the questions yet.

The catch is a) there's a middle ground; some people are highly resistant to changing their beliefs, but truly incontrovertible (or just frequently repeated) evidence will get through; and b) this type of person is extremely difficult to tell from someone afflicted with ASS, unless you try for a while. So I usually do.

I have this problem: I have compassion for everyone, when push comes to shove. Even when I have no respect left; even when I think the world would be better off without them. I suspect even if I thought the only way to save my life was to kill them right away (which has never happened, and the gods between me and that day), I expect I would still feel compassion.

But I'd pull the trigger.


"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Charles good points, but Ill agree to disagree on a few things.

Charles quoted: Written by:
lightning...Lyra's example is just one where a so-called prejudice is more the result of an environment than of a personal choice.



I disagree with that to a certain extent. I would suggest that prejudice comes from ignorance, and a lack of respect for other people. Perhaps prejudice could be viewed as a survival tactic for people living in isolated communities, but what you are really saying is that because people are living in ignorant and bigoted communities, then it acceptable to be bigoted. I dont buy that at all, as that suggestion supports bigotry.

Most of us are brainwashed to a certain extent, like Roman Catholics and the guilt, and IMHO religions like Mormons, Muslims and Catholics have been used to enslave and control Women, and men to a certain extent, since forever. Does there not come a time when we have to think for ourselves, and make our own decisions? I dont buy the environment argument.


ubblol with the example of the Texan. I thinkTexans probably relish in their prejudice. Take the president of the United States GW Bush, an ex Texas governor, did he not relish in holding the record for the most executions among his peers.

smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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