Page: 1234
Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I understand that this has developed into a large community. However, in the past few weeks I have received more complaints about the behaviour of others in threads than I feel I have ever seen in my years here at HoP.

I am deeply concerned, disappointed and feeling pretty helpless.
Which is why I am posting this. Please know that I am in no way representing Malcolm, Charles, Flash Fire, Josh, Dom or the opinions of any other HoP staff member. I am making this appeal as Pele, a fellow member of this community who is extremely upset by the PM's and emails I have been getting on a regular basis about the lack of respect on this board.

Correcting the mis-spellings and grammar of others in a thread is tactless and rude, not to mention humiliating and it hurts feelings. You do not know from what educational background someone comes, so do not assume they want you to correct them. If you have an issue, PM it instead.

Answering a question. Several times in the past few weeks people have put up questions about how to go about doing something..let's say...teach, perform, make a video, etc. A specific topic of interest came up about charging for these things. The statement "You shouldn't charge because it is about the art not money" and those like it neither answers the question nor helps the poster. It shows a rather pretentious attitude in fact. There are alot of people out there who make money on what we do. If that is something you disagree with, then start an appropriate thread, but respect the request of the original poster.
Likewise, if a certain genre of people are asked for something (a professional, a poier, etc.), please respect that unless you have something to add. There were a few complaints in thread aimed specifically at professional performers in which people would say "Well, I am not a performer and I think what you did is wrong." There was also one mentioned where a staffer responded to a poi question by saying that s/he didn't understand the attraction anyway, so what was the big deal. Again, the lack of respect for the original question is amazing to me.

Opinions. Turning an opinion based question into an all out debate, which then becomes and arguement, is not acceptible. It never has been. There are people here who are dead set it seems on forcing others to see their opinion as the better one. If you disagree fine. Put up your opinion with your supporting statements. Do not assault anyone or be rude about it. And there is no need to state your opinion 5 times in the same thread with the intent of trying to change someones mind. That shows an extreme lack of respect for the opinions of your fellow HoPper.

Use of PM's was recently called into question. They are not to be used for aggressive or illegal purposes. If you feel the need, take it to email and leave HoP out of it.

The other issue which has come up is primarily focussed around the video area. Please be supportive and constructive in your criticism. "It looks like sh!t" or "Dude, that has been done to death. Try something new" are not usually the best responses to give and do not show a support of your fellow HoPpers. Acknowledging them, offering constructive criticism and advice is welcome, however.

These are in direct response to complaints I have received over the past few weeks. Some of which I was given a copy of the thread, some of which I saw for myself.

I do know that because of the abuse of some of the priveledges (sp??) we have on HoP there have been people who have been members in good standing for years who thought perhaps they should leave.

Normally, I understand the reaction to this is "Let them go." and especially this time I feel that is not a valid response at all. I think that asking for respect is not alot. I understand that this is already one of the most accepting and nicest online communities out there, and I for one want to keep it that way and refuse to let it go the way of flaming and self-importance without a fight. But it takes us all to do that.

Please think before you post. Take a moment to read what you have written and hear it in your head in a tone other than the one you intended to make sure that even if it is criticism, it is as respectful as possible. We are all entitled to expressing our opinions and feelings, but we do not have the right to barrel over others to do so.

Thanks for your time, patience and continued involvement in Home of Poi.

Pele *the exasperated and not representing the voices of others*


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:Well said Pele hug

Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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Bird
Bird

now available in "advanced"
Location: Cornwall
Member Since: 25th Aug 2003
Total posts: 6086
Posted:I agree entirely (and desperately hope I am not one of the guilty)

There will never be a time when everyone agrees with everything other people say, but there is a huge difference between discussion and arguement.

Noone ever wants to feel rejected, which can happen very easily (either intentionally or otherwise) when people don't respect the opinions of others.

All it takes is to preview your post, as Pele said, and imagine how it sounds from the point of view of the other users of the site and how easily it might be taken out of context, which, I have noticed, can happen very easily when you're not talking face to face with someone!

At the end of the day, everyone on this site share a common interest, there needn't be any ill feeling amongst us.

peace


My state of mind is not yours to define!

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Thanks so much Pele.

In this case, you have spoken for me also, and I appreciate the fact that you put your butt on the line to help our community.

hug


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:i would like to offer a full and total appologie to anyone one on hop that i have offendedon hop in any, way, shape or form!

and i agree with what pele said in total!

laterdays


Step (el-nombrie)

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Gidg
Gidg

Super Gidg!!!!
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 8506
Posted:Well stated Pele.

hug hug wave wave


Growing old is mandatory; growing up is NOT.
Proud member of the HoP DPS.
Sanity is a highly overrated state of mind.
I'm normal ... it's everyone else that's crazy.

Gidg

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I must not be reading the right threads!

confused

But then again, I am selective about which threads I've been reading. I've seen respect and love, and occationally a flare up or two, but nothing like historic hateful threads that I've been witness to or a part of in the past.

I really can't imagine that it's WORSE than it's been... HoP has had very dark times in the past.... I mean I could go on for a while about people spreading hate in the past and nobody ain't said nothin'. I wonder what's been happening recently?

Now I'm curious. Somebody PM me and tell me about all of these crazy threads!


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Warchild
After 17 hrs i got the little beautie
Location: Sunny Devon, UK
Member Since: 21st Jan 2004
Total posts: 340
Posted:Big respect pele. wink

A wise man once told me, A friend will bail you outta jail, A great friend will be sitting beside you saying that was f**king awesome.

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:Ill show you disrespect!

Pele is a poop head!

tongue


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mrFlibble
Ghostbuster
Location: York, UK
Member Since: 1st Mar 2003
Total posts: 455
Posted:I haven't seen any threads that bothered me in any way. but i tend not to read the threads with about 42 million pages of posts so maybe those are the ones that attract the negativity? i dunno.
also its nigh on impossible to offend me biggrin and i like people trying, its always amusing.

I think Bill and Ted's philosophy on life is best. If you dont know what that is, go and watch both films and you'll see biggrin


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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Thanks Pele

(steps back, hands pele cap that says "HoP Vibeswatcher"

cheers
beerchug


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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Thanks all, I appreciate the support. I have been very frustrated with my mod duties lately.
NYC they generally get taken care of pretty quickly, or it is things that, as you said, you haven't read them all, and some are things you might not concider offensive or disrespectful but others do. That is part of the issue (not you directly sweetie!).

Anyway...just wanted to express a word of thanks for understanding.

Pele


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Deimos
Deimos

Cinnamon Girl
Location: Hfx, NS, Canada
Member Since: 22nd Aug 2003
Total posts: 191
Posted:Thanks for the heads up, Pele. I know that it's very easy to get caught up in one's own oppinion and to not take othes into conideration. I'll remember to watch myslef from now on. ^-^

P*L*U*R

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Actually, upon rereading it Pele, you stated that you'd recieved MORE COMPLAINTS than you had in the past... not that you thought it was worse than it had been.

My bad.

Cuz there was this one time... wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Pele, you've pretty much spoken for me.

I've noticed over the recent and not so recent past that HoP has been affected due to a lack of respect and consideration. Only rarely do I think it's purposeful and malicious, more often people just don't think about how their reply will affect the poster.

And whilst we do have a great, open and chatty community, please don't assume that everyone wants a thread they've started filled with off topic discussion and random comments. Great as they are, there's a time and a place.

Thanks Pele, and thanks everyone on the board.


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:wave

smile

as i said in the pm we(non mods) oten don't get to see the upset-ness created by inconsiderate replies.... and so often don't understand why what is posted is hurting someone...


i agree with pretty much everything written here.... except one part very slightly, but that ones already in discussio(or debate...hmmm wink)

so.:

fluff and smiliness all round please!

we got it good and lets not lose that.
R biggrin


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Frodo
Frodo

old hand
Location: In a van
Member Since: 30th Jun 2003
Total posts: 1092
Posted:Well said all, lets all play nice and it will be great!!

Rock on hop!!


Frodo out! peace


passing through, this world still lives.

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:In terms of problems with debating threads on here, I think alot of it comes from the simple fact that many people don't know how to argue without getting emotionally involved.

What starts off as "I think you are wrong because..." degenerates into name calling and personal attacks very quickly when the argument is confused with the arguer.

I wish rhetoric was still appreciated and taught in schools.

It would be nice to be able to voice opinions without worrying about getting blasted for having an opinion.

Not that I worry THAT much, but I never managed to get a filter between what I think and what I say. smile

Raph


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I totally agree with the sentiment of this thread.

But I still can't get it out of my mind that this is isn't the worst I've seen it. Thread hijacking? There have been posters who's soul existance is thead hijacking. Taking posts personally? Personal attacks? Religious furvor? Racist, sexist, nationalistic, arrogant, insulting posts... Where have you guys been over the last n years? There have been FAMOUS threads that will live on in HoP infamy that were untouched and unremarked upon. (And some that have been deleted but let's not go THERE again wink )

I'm all for peace. I'm just confused at the timing.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:hello, *deep breath*



I mainly agree with pele, but not totally (and here is where im going to confirm my rep as an argumenative s-o-b)



A discusion is an exchainge of views, and contary veiws often kneed some working through to become a synthsis of both views wich is better than the originals. Argument, or debate is a good thing as it furthers knowedge, and investigates boundries. often the first step is to actually understand thoes veiws, and often once this happens peaple often find infact they hold the same views expressed diffrently, otherwise then supporting arguments can be give for each case, and thease arguments can then be worked around each other to produce a fuller picture.



good discussion is not "im right, your wrong" but "thats very intresting, but have you thought about this aspect?" arguments should be constanly changing to fit each other, both sides kneed to listen and adapt. anything else is just fighting, which i agree is bad but otherwise i see no harm in hammering out the diffrences.



besides, too much pussying about with peaples feelings results in booring discussions, not that you shouldent think about how you present your argument, but something that is not written as a personal attack shouldent be taken as one, and if it is, it can hardly be helped.



let the flaming commence,



Tom wave



*edit* a really good example of everything im talking about can be seen on the 'performance vs Tech' thread, which has come to a beutifull conclusion.

EDITED_BY: [Nx?] (1074738820)


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:Perhaps people are just whineier.

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Malcolm
Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP
Member Since: 18th Nov 2003
Total posts: 996
Posted:Pele,

Totally agree with you 102%

It is quite simple really...


The four way test.
Of all the things we say or do:
1. Is it the Truth?
2. Is it Fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
4. Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

If you can answer YES to those 4 questions then you may post it.


"May your balls always burn"

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:Quote:



The four way test.
Of all the things we say or do:
1. Is it the Truth?
2. Is it Fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
4. Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

If you can answer YES to those 4 questions then you may post it.




Oh, crap! Now I'll never post anything!

biggrin

Raph


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:where have i seen that before, oh yes, the rotary club. wink

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Malcolm
Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP
Member Since: 18th Nov 2003
Total posts: 996
Posted:Quote:
where have i seen that before, oh yes, the rotary club. wink

T wave


Yes this is from Rotary. See www.rotary.org
I have been a member for the last 12 years ubblove.
Note: They are not a spinning organisation


"May your balls always burn"

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Quote:

The four way test.
Of all the things we say or do:
1. Is it the Truth?
2. Is it Fair to all concerned?
3. Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
4. Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

If you can answer YES to those 4 questions then you may post it.




I.... don't think I've ever read a post that meets those requirements...

But again. I agree with the sentiment. biggrin


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Quote:
.
Note: They are not a spinning organisation



ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:hey! tom and malcolm! no thread deviation! spank

wink

while the rotary ideals are great(we have a copy in our office) unfortunately the majority of the world doesn't think/work like that.

and unfortunately in my opinion life/HOP would stagnate if they were followed to the letter.
i'm with tom on that one.

its just where do you draw the line between discussion, arguement and irrational debate?

and who judges that?

and if its mods who judge, what if the mod opinion is in a minority?

R wave


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Well, I'm with NYC in that there has definetly been worse. I mean, dear god, i came in on the end of the "point" game in all its anti-glory, not to mention some of the great threads of infamy which i was kindly shown within my first few months of HoPdom. Interetsing atmosphere, but i also think at the time there was more overall community. You know how theres people you never get along with, but might protect from outsiders? (Like your exbf, little brother, certain nameless opitionated hoppers when you were mad at them) and i think that that existed at least to some extent back then. But most of the stuff NYC's referring to, I'd say happened when there were less than 1500 members, and prolly all of it while we were under 3000. I think now that HoP is loosing some of the closeness it had originally just from shear size and whatnot, things are getting more sensitive.

I agree with Malcolm's sentiments very much, but also with Minero/Nx/NYC in that a little debate is healthy. I hope HoP continues to be the wonder that it has been..... i don't want to lose it, even if i'm hardly ever around anymore!

I miss you guys, NYC you still owe me to meet you, and Dom's avatar is the cutest thing ever! Tell me its new so i don't feel silly.

Peace & Love,
Kyribug


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:*crosses arms (flexing muscles in the process) and stands with a wide-based stance behind Malcolm and Pele*

Yup. I'm with them.

*suddenly puts on an impish grin ubbangel, pinches Pele's butt, and runs away giggling* spank wink ubbloco


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Yay..Pele.. hug hug hug hug

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Page: 1234

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