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Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!
Login/Join to ParticipatePooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
edit; okay glass just smacked me in the head with the obvious notion that inverted means upside down as well as the definition i went by, in which inverted means; reversed, in a contrary direction. so i am considering changing my terminology, but i have edited this to make sense with the stuff in the trinity thread. i'm just warning you that i may change this post when i get the time to give a flying fart. anyway this will make sense for a little while til i can change things to confuse you again
first, the crossed arm inverted weaves, which add two beats to a odd number weave...
the counting on this is pretty tricky, since it comes out of a weave that already has beats. in general for beat counts i go by the # of beats on each side of the crossover, since that way you don't have to be symmetrical to have it make sense. but the crossover happens at the entrance into the inversion so i label the inverted weave by which weave position you came into it from. there's so many variations that this may make sense later.
first, try the 3 beat inverted weave, which is
3 beat weave, but the crossover goes between your arms instead of to the other side. your arms, you will notice, are crossed, so you have to do an split time isolation with both hands so the chains don't wrap your arms.
next try it out of the five beat, which makes a 5 beat inverted weave.
insides are like buzzsaws but are not between your arms, they are between your arms and your body. take a buzzsaw in front, and drop your hands to your sides. now the wicks come under your armpits, and the chains are inside your arms. you can take a bfly or a spider and inside them, so if you do a bfly in front, you bend forward and do it inbetween your arms and your tummy. do them in the side plane, too.
now if you take a buzzsaw, do it inside at your side, and the take it around your back, keeping the same buzzsaw plane direction the whole time, you have a BTB inside. now try that, with an inverted weave instead of a buzzsaw. ouch. wear a cup. or "box" if your british
I have edited this title and post and cut out all the "buzzsaw" terms. Hope this makes more sense now!
EDITED_BY: arashi (1107654577)
edit; okay glass just smacked me in the head with the obvious notion that inverted means upside down as well as the definition i went by, in which inverted means; reversed, in a contrary direction. so i am considering changing my terminology, but i have edited this to make sense with the stuff in the trinity thread. i'm just warning you that i may change this post when i get the time to give a flying fart. anyway this will make sense for a little while til i can change things to confuse you again
first, the crossed arm inverted weaves, which add two beats to a odd number weave...
the counting on this is pretty tricky, since it comes out of a weave that already has beats. in general for beat counts i go by the # of beats on each side of the crossover, since that way you don't have to be symmetrical to have it make sense. but the crossover happens at the entrance into the inversion so i label the inverted weave by which weave position you came into it from. there's so many variations that this may make sense later.
first, try the 3 beat inverted weave, which is
3 beat weave, but the crossover goes between your arms instead of to the other side. your arms, you will notice, are crossed, so you have to do an split time isolation with both hands so the chains don't wrap your arms.
next try it out of the five beat, which makes a 5 beat inverted weave.
insides are like buzzsaws but are not between your arms, they are between your arms and your body. take a buzzsaw in front, and drop your hands to your sides. now the wicks come under your armpits, and the chains are inside your arms. you can take a bfly or a spider and inside them, so if you do a bfly in front, you bend forward and do it inbetween your arms and your tummy. do them in the side plane, too.
now if you take a buzzsaw, do it inside at your side, and the take it around your back, keeping the same buzzsaw plane direction the whole time, you have a BTB inside. now try that, with an inverted weave instead of a buzzsaw. ouch. wear a cup. or "box" if your british
I have edited this title and post and cut out all the "buzzsaw" terms. Hope this makes more sense now!
EDITED_BY: arashi (1107654577)
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
GOLD Member
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posted:
I don't see how turning is the hard part. If your doing a forward atomic weave in front of you you just have to figure out the hand motions to go to a reverse atomic weave behind you. I tell the direction of the atomic weaves by which way the poi are spinning when you bring them to your sides. It looks really nice when you do it in the wall plane. If your morphing the atom while turning I could see why sometimes you might be in an awkward hand postion but with some experimenting you should be able to figure out how to move your hands to make it work. Sometimes though I end up turning from a forward atomic weave to a forward atomic weave I don't know hwo I do this. Spinning atomic is like quantum physics, the old rules of spinning don't always seem to apply.
On another note I always spun atomic with the poi short but I am totally digging isloating atoms with long poi. It looks like it doesn't make sense. If that makes sense. I used to think doing this with long poi wouldn't look as good as with a shorter length but they both have thei advantages and drawbacks.
I was also wondering if the crane is a same-time inversion. I was confused with what inversions were for a long time and therefore didn't understand what crane meant. If thats what it is I think it's one of my favorite little tricks at the moment.
I don't see how turning is the hard part. If your doing a forward atomic weave in front of you you just have to figure out the hand motions to go to a reverse atomic weave behind you. I tell the direction of the atomic weaves by which way the poi are spinning when you bring them to your sides. It looks really nice when you do it in the wall plane. If your morphing the atom while turning I could see why sometimes you might be in an awkward hand postion but with some experimenting you should be able to figure out how to move your hands to make it work. Sometimes though I end up turning from a forward atomic weave to a forward atomic weave I don't know hwo I do this. Spinning atomic is like quantum physics, the old rules of spinning don't always seem to apply.
On another note I always spun atomic with the poi short but I am totally digging isloating atoms with long poi. It looks like it doesn't make sense. If that makes sense. I used to think doing this with long poi wouldn't look as good as with a shorter length but they both have thei advantages and drawbacks.
I was also wondering if the crane is a same-time inversion. I was confused with what inversions were for a long time and therefore didn't understand what crane meant. If thats what it is I think it's one of my favorite little tricks at the moment.
Peace, Love, Circles
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
crane is a basic poi formation such as reels, weave/cross follow or butterfly, with special applications while doing atomics.
crane is a basic poi formation such as reels, weave/cross follow or butterfly, with special applications while doing atomics.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
That translates from arashian as: a same direction butterfly in which the timing changes in each half circle, so that the poi that is leading in the first half is trailing in the second half.. Which is extremely useful with atomics, since atomics are just butterflies, half of which are same direction equivalent.. So it makes lots of transitions through them much nicer...
That translates from arashian as: a same direction butterfly in which the timing changes in each half circle, so that the poi that is leading in the first half is trailing in the second half.. Which is extremely useful with atomics, since atomics are just butterflies, half of which are same direction equivalent.. So it makes lots of transitions through them much nicer...
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
well,
what I think arashi is saying is that cran is a subset of the moves that can have theier centre of spins close together, but in the atomic form relates to what I would call the clash state in this diagram here
at least thats what I think arashi means.
T
well,
what I think arashi is saying is that cran is a subset of the moves that can have theier centre of spins close together, but in the atomic form relates to what I would call the clash state in this diagram here
at least thats what I think arashi means.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
What i like about atomics is that they sit right between being a butterfly and being weave.
So you get loads of crazy patterns where you've got the hand movement of say a 3 beat weave but the poi look like a butterfly and so on.
What i also like is that noobs naturally spin atomic. ie with dodgy planes and plane breaks and all sorts of stuff that we drill out of them only to reintroduce later on. I've got a great bit of video of this noobie who can't weave very well, can't butterfly too good, then pulls of this insane atomic turn that looked wicked.
I've not read this thread but had the delight of arashi showing me some stuff at uberpoi. What strikes me as most important is this:
There is just 1 atomic structure, it's a cross with 4 quadrants that your hands can be in, you just need to consider which quadrant each hand is in.
I just play around with moving 1 hand to a differnt quadrant and seeing what happens. Either the pattern works normally, or it works tangled. I think any one that gets tangled works if you cross your arms.
Other than that i haven't explored them much. Except playing with 1st and 2nd degree crossers.
Laters,
m
What i like about atomics is that they sit right between being a butterfly and being weave.
So you get loads of crazy patterns where you've got the hand movement of say a 3 beat weave but the poi look like a butterfly and so on.
What i also like is that noobs naturally spin atomic. ie with dodgy planes and plane breaks and all sorts of stuff that we drill out of them only to reintroduce later on. I've got a great bit of video of this noobie who can't weave very well, can't butterfly too good, then pulls of this insane atomic turn that looked wicked.
I've not read this thread but had the delight of arashi showing me some stuff at uberpoi. What strikes me as most important is this:
There is just 1 atomic structure, it's a cross with 4 quadrants that your hands can be in, you just need to consider which quadrant each hand is in.
I just play around with moving 1 hand to a differnt quadrant and seeing what happens. Either the pattern works normally, or it works tangled. I think any one that gets tangled works if you cross your arms.
Other than that i haven't explored them much. Except playing with 1st and 2nd degree crossers.
Laters,
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
yes yes and yes
wow we just reduced the "gist" of everything in this thread to 3 posts
yes yes and yes
wow we just reduced the "gist" of everything in this thread to 3 posts
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that's craziness... it can't be done... that's like impossible man... its a... a... a BUTTERFLY WEAVE??!??!!
cole. x
Written by: spherculist
So you get loads of crazy patterns where you've got the hand movement of say a 3 beat weave but the poi look like a butterfly and so on.
that's craziness... it can't be done... that's like impossible man... its a... a... a BUTTERFLY WEAVE??!??!!
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
member
103 posts
Location: south germany
member
103 posts
Location: south germany
Posted:
oui jaaa yes
that sounds more like the magic words of le capitain on über and ejc **
one of those really big bonus points for atomic is ur body is freeeeeee
inversions and cranes are vehicules to change from one atomic position to the other up down forward or backward ....
when are u back from the island matt ??
peace light and drink more water
ap
oui jaaa yes
that sounds more like the magic words of le capitain on über and ejc **
one of those really big bonus points for atomic is ur body is freeeeeee
inversions and cranes are vehicules to change from one atomic position to the other up down forward or backward ....
when are u back from the island matt ??
peace light and drink more water
ap
peace and light
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
hahaha, cole..
if you take atoms like this:
right:CCW wallplane, left: fwd left wheel plane == fwd bf
right: fwd right wheel, left: CCW wallplane == CCW same direction bf
right: CW wallplane, left: fwd left wheelplane == CW sd bf
right: rev right wheel plane, left: CCW wallplane == rev bf
Every other atom (by quadrant handwise) is just taking one of these atoms and using a different plane facing for one or both.. ie.. one inside, etc.. basically atoms just allow you to move each hand independently, while still maintaining the same structure.. ie. the bf.. its just no matterhow you turn it (whihc plane, direction, etc) you just end up in one of these to a different degree.. so all your bf stuff directly crosses over.. its just with atomics you have WAY more freedom, since the independence of the hands gives more freedom to planebreak and other nonsense way more fluidly at just about any point in the move..
Written by: colemanWritten by: spherculist
So you get loads of crazy patterns where you've got the hand movement of say a 3 beat weave but the poi look like a butterfly and so on.
that's craziness... it can't be done... that's like impossible man... its a... a... a BUTTERFLY WEAVE??!??!!
cole. x
hahaha, cole..
if you take atoms like this:
right:CCW wallplane, left: fwd left wheel plane == fwd bf
right: fwd right wheel, left: CCW wallplane == CCW same direction bf
right: CW wallplane, left: fwd left wheelplane == CW sd bf
right: rev right wheel plane, left: CCW wallplane == rev bf
Every other atom (by quadrant handwise) is just taking one of these atoms and using a different plane facing for one or both.. ie.. one inside, etc.. basically atoms just allow you to move each hand independently, while still maintaining the same structure.. ie. the bf.. its just no matterhow you turn it (whihc plane, direction, etc) you just end up in one of these to a different degree.. so all your bf stuff directly crosses over.. its just with atomics you have WAY more freedom, since the independence of the hands gives more freedom to planebreak and other nonsense way more fluidly at just about any point in the move..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
*bump*
*bump*
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
SILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA
Posted:
I have a quick question that's related to inversions and insides and I was hoping that someone could help me. would it still be an inversion if you brought the right poi under your armpit before leading over your left arm and into a buzzsaw? or what about skipping the buzzsaw all together and just crossing to the other side?
I have a quick question that's related to inversions and insides and I was hoping that someone could help me. would it still be an inversion if you brought the right poi under your armpit before leading over your left arm and into a buzzsaw? or what about skipping the buzzsaw all together and just crossing to the other side?
I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
Written by: jaero
I have a quick question that's related to inversions and insides and I was hoping that someone could help me. would it still be an inversion if you brought the right poi under your armpit [wich armpit?] before leading over your left arm and into a buzzsaw? [and wich direction?]or what about skipping the buzzsaw all together and just crossing to the other side?
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
SILVER Member
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA
your new best enemy
246 posts
Location: over the river, through the woods, USA
Posted:
under the right armpit, while spinning forwards.... but I just had a thought for under the left armpit that seems pretty cool. I'll have to try it.
under the right armpit, while spinning forwards.... but I just had a thought for under the left armpit that seems pretty cool. I'll have to try it.
I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yeah that would be an inversion
T
yeah that would be an inversion
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
GOLD Member
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posted:
*bump* for video
[Old link]
*bump* for video
[Old link]
Peace, Love, Circles
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
*bump*
*bump*
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
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