• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 200.00 credit to your HoP account.
 

Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > inversions, insides, atomics, oh my!

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 1...1213141516
arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:edit; okay glass just smacked me in the head with the obvious notion that inverted means upside down as well as the definition i went by, in which inverted means; reversed, in a contrary direction. so i am considering changing my terminology, but i have edited this to make sense with the stuff in the trinity thread. i'm just warning you that i may change this post when i get the time to give a flying fart. anyway this will make sense for a little while til i can change things to confuse you again wink



first, the crossed arm inverted weaves, which add two beats to a odd number weave...

the counting on this is pretty tricky, since it comes out of a weave that already has beats. in general for beat counts i go by the # of beats on each side of the crossover, since that way you don't have to be symmetrical to have it make sense. but the crossover happens at the entrance into the inversion so i label the inverted weave by which weave position you came into it from. there's so many variations that this may make sense later.

first, try the 3 beat inverted weave, which is



3 beat weave, but the crossover goes between your arms instead of to the other side. your arms, you will notice, are crossed, so you have to do an split time isolation with both hands so the chains don't wrap your arms.



next try it out of the five beat, which makes a 5 beat inverted weave.



insides are like buzzsaws but are not between your arms, they are between your arms and your body. take a buzzsaw in front, and drop your hands to your sides. now the wicks come under your armpits, and the chains are inside your arms. you can take a bfly or a spider and inside them, so if you do a bfly in front, you bend forward and do it inbetween your arms and your tummy. do them in the side plane, too.

now if you take a buzzsaw, do it inside at your side, and the take it around your back, keeping the same buzzsaw plane direction the whole time, you have a BTB inside. now try that, with an inverted weave instead of a buzzsaw. ouch. wear a cup. or "box" if your british tongue



I have edited this title and post and cut out all the "buzzsaw" terms. Hope this makes more sense now!

EDITED_BY: arashi (1107654577)


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:you can enter an inverted space from outside or inside.. but there is no inverted inside..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I have a question about atomics.. so seeing as arashi was talking about how an atom should be 45 to each axis.. does this mean that an atomice weave should go from and atom with the hands at 9:00 on the right side to and atom with hands at 3:00 on the left side,.. and consequently have the corkscrew-esque version be an atom with hands a the 6:00 to an atom with the hands at 12:00.. which makes inside atoms vs outside atoms a bit harder.. but the level of play that one could get morphing between them would be soo ... umm.. sheek..

EDIT:

Code:

weave

X<- hands to hands->X



inside weave

hands->X to X<- hands



cork

X

^

|

hands

to

hands

|

v

X





outside to inside

(front)

X

^

|

hands

to

hands

|

v

X

(Body)


EDITED_BY: Rev (1125949482)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:If the question is "How an atom should be 45 to each axis?"

I dont know what you meen. For me Atom have two planes 90 apart and one axis, Boxes have two planes 90 and two axis.
The text and diagram is correct.


POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:richee-

say this is your axis
+

then this is your atom 45 to those axi
x

so rather than the poi parallel to the axes, the poi are off of the axis.. whihc creates more freedom to 'morph' between various atoms..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


spiralx
spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 1st May 2002
Total posts: 1376
Posted:The plane of the poi in an atom is at 45 degrees to wall, wheel and floor planes.

"Moo," said the happy cow.


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Righ, so where is the problem? smile
:R


POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:its not really a problem.. I just wanted to clarify certain hand positions.. becase a lot of the talk of the atoms in this thread refer to moving between atoms.. but dont refer to stuff like atomic weaves and such.. and I wanted to try and get some relations going.. because essentially you can morph between all of the atoms right there in front of you.. whihc has been pretty much the discussion thus far.. flowing between atoms like that is more dynamic were the atomic 'structure' if that makes sense becomes fluid and changing.. whereas stuff like the atomic weave and such in my diagrams create more of a static atomic structure that doesnt really change..



also.. I wasnt at uberpoi.. so I still havent seen any of this stuff and am pretty much workingout details as I go.. I'm just trying to make sure I'm staying on pretty much the same page as everyone else.. and am talking about things in a clear way..



edit: oh and my biggest thing was making sure that the weave should be with and x like that.. and not and horiztonal x (flat x)

EDITED_BY: Rev (1126107466)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I see Atoms and Boxes so far from clasic spinnig. Is close new way of 3D Spinnig Im interested in. It not so easy to determine, clarify 3D Staff in Parallel planar system, here comes 45es helpfull.
Cause Boxes are X shaped(Answer to you is "Of course, that they can be "X non flat". ). Than it is like moving big ball around you.
Classic circles are like blank page, linear even you put'em into parallel planar system so still a bit 2D, boxes are 3D without differnece, that is why is harder to move.


POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I thought boxes were L shaped.. not X shaped... boxes are formed as the edges of the poi orbits come together..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Right,we can say boxes are L shaped.
But than how you differentiate Atom(X) with hands together as an Axis and Atoms(X) with Nexus, so something between Atom and Box? I think that is what you want to see with your Weave. How is it called? If it has no name we are responsible no name it smile.


POI THEO(R)IST


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Atomic-box.

POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:I dont understand what you mean richee...


atom- X and the hands can be in any of the wedges.. regardless of how you stick your hands in thos wedges your hands are essentially in the butterfly position that defines atoms..

boxes are planes that intersect at the corners.. I was talking to matt about how useful 90 degree plane changes would be to keep hands together as you weave a box.. so you could go from front wall to right side to rear wall.. making a bent S at the corners.. kinda like a trinity but square.. haha..

but I'm not sure what an atom with a nexus means? or even what an atomic box would mean.. since the later are terms that clash and the former would be an atomic tangle of some variety.. right? could you please help me to see what you mean by these?


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:ok,

semantic confusion here, ages ago i talked of atoms as boxes, because they were easier to understand and manipulate with the planes not clashing. but matt (sherilicist, orhoweveryouspellit) calls changing planes by 90 degrees with each transition. but atoms seperated and atoms touching are essentially the same thing.

my atom weave (and there are lots of others) it slightly seperated but the planes interact, they are not fully seperated.

I have a lot of stuff to write about atoms now, but i need to wait till i get home and have three hours of computer time to spare.

one thing i will say rev is its not about morphing the atom around, its about morphing round the atom, and the planes staying in the same relative space. the effect subjectivly is the same.

give me two more years and ill have this down, maybe.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Anna-pananna
Anna-pananna

Thinking...
Location: Oxford
Member Since: 13th Sep 2003
Total posts: 179
Posted:Written by: [Nx?

I have a lot of stuff to write about atoms now, but i need to wait till i get home and have three hours of computer time to spare.




Looking forward to reading it!

Thanks for showing (and attempting to teach) me your atom weave at EJC Nx... erm I'm still working on it, sometimes I think I have it, but I just don't know, it's kinda hard to tell. But I'm experimenting lots with different timings and different planes (ceiling and floor planes especialy), all in an attempt to understand what's happening a bit better! My brain is loving the challenge, it's exciting stuff.


Practice as if your hair was on fire...


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:well I do plenty of atom weaving.. but its nothing like box weaving.. bow weaving is like reels unless you do both poi in the same plane and use 90 changes at the corners to make the box.. so apart dfrom the later I dont' see hwo box weaving can be called weaving..



atoms on the other hand have two featuers.. the beatuy of being bale to morph betwee atoms.. ebcause a different hand position is a different atomic structure.. it seems meaningless but its not the more atoms you morphbetween since a simple morph can go same direction to opposite and other craziness.. whihc is why I understand arashi's swanting to put atoms a 45 degree angles to each planes because it birngas all the variations together into one morphable atom structure.. now the atomic weaving and atomic morphing. to me are different slightly.. the morphing can take place right there in front of you and you can keep the same atomic planes and be moving your hands all over the place.. (ie morphing the atomic structure) but atomic weaving is when you move the atom around and as consequence change its structure.. (heres where the twisting and what not of the weave come in.. )



and I agree that there's a moving around the atom and morphing of the atom around.. but I guess I didnt make that point clear.. I do have problems with that.. but to me morphing the atom around is what happens when you atomic weave.. whereas morphing the atom is what happens when it sits right there..





this stuff is really a pain to talk about when you try and talk about something quite simple. I feel like a caveman trying to express the phrase 'the sky is blue.. ' though somehow I feel the caveman would have it easier..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:I keep reading this thread and all i can say is "durrrr" (with dribbles) I can do a basic atom and thats it. Why I cant leave this thread alone I don't know, although I'm beginning to understand what ur all on about.

I know - it scares me too!

Mind you my inversions are coming on lovely ubblove


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible


ficklampa
ficklampa

member
Location: sweden,stockholm.
Member Since: 6th Dec 2004
Total posts: 81
Posted:oh man.
does anyone have films of atoms...and all that other stuff?
all i actually understand what it is is isolation.
i nailed the buzzaw one(the ''easy'' one) just recently.


the only thing worth dying for is life itself


[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:for me, an atom weave dosnt change its planes as you weave it, its just the logical concequence of of spinning a split time same direction atom, see the crane thread. the atom stays in the same place in space and you weave the two planes together.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:wouldnt that be a thread the atom? wink

I have a vid clip of you.. your "first atomic weave" and it doesnt stay int he same place at all.. now maybe you've changed since then.. but when I talk atom weave I talk about going from a particualr atom at point A to its opposite at point B.. and itf A is in front of me.. its hard to get to B without using an inside or rear plane..

example..
Code:
1 2
body
3 4

atom at 1.... right poi spinning CCW wallplane left poi spinning fwd wheel plane..
weave to 4 via either 1 or 2 typically.. but the point is really going 1->4->1.. so the poi hit their reflective plane and back in a manner consistent with the term weave..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:hello lovelies, having fun? just saying hi, opening the windows for some fresh air...

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, the atom weave is considerably diffrent now, its in spklitime fora start, rather than cranes....

i guess your gonna have to wait for the new vid...

it dosnt go inside or use a rear plane tho.

T wave

p.s. hi arashi clap


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:nix... I follow how you can 'weave' with the atom right there in front of you.. but isnt that more like a ttn...

I'll guess I'll have to wait on a video..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Rev - I meen you are doing Atom in the front of you right. And than you move the center from your hands(Gradients) to make Box for example. I meen the state where your Atom is somewhere befor your Box, so there is small X close to Poi heads.

POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:but once you take your hands out of the center... arent you applying some fundemental changes?



for example.. boxes.. work like reels and corssers.. any 'weaving' that gets done with boxes is just a weaving between different reel anc crosser positions.. the poi never really weave..



now atoms because they share a same center of spin can be woven because you can apply any of the techniques you know that involve twos centers coming together..



the place that you talk about depends on twhat you plane to do.. because on the one hand.. a)in order to make them do 'atomic' stuff, you'd have to exagerrate all your atomic motions.. and then it works like extensions...



on the other hand.. b) you can choose not to weave them.. at whihc point it becomes a cramped box...



neither a nor b are the same.. but start from the same point.. kinda like both butterfly weaves and butterfly reels can start from a butterfly.. ponder this.. is your example of the poi making te x by the poi heads, any different from spinning sideplanes like a trinity so that the poi make a small butterfly near the poi heads?





More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


ficklampa
ficklampa

member
Location: sweden,stockholm.
Member Since: 6th Dec 2004
Total posts: 81
Posted:i just...dont get it.
could someone please fix a movie with it?


the only thing worth dying for is life itself


[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:ints not infront of you rev, its outside you, your inside the atom and weaving, you could maybe call it a ttn, but it feels and works and looks like a weave.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I just want to take Atom and mix it with Box into something between. It like bad box or bad Atom smile. It Atom with two centers of spinning.

POI THEO(R)IST


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:oh you can mix them freely.. kinda like combo that uses both weaves and reels... it would be a lot like what arashi calls spidering if I'm using that term correctly..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:dont think so rev...

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


Rev
Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego
Member Since: 14th Mar 2003
Total posts: 1269
Posted:well if I used it wrong then someone who knows can correct me.. but spidering can involve reels and weaves and other stuff in the way it was explained to m..

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown


Page: 1...1213141516

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [inversion* inside* atomic* oh] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > inversions, insides, atomics, oh my! [466 replies]
2. Learn > POI > Inversions > 5 Beat Atomic Inversion *help/resource
3. Learn > POI > Inversions > 90-Degree Off-Set Atomic Inversions *help/resource
4. Learn > Hoop > Mini hoop > moth folds outside inside *help/resource
5. Learn > POI > Advanced Butterflies > atomic 2 beat thingy *help/resource

     Show more..