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lollipurple penguin- soon to be
478 posts
Location: playing with the pixies at the arsse end of the mi...

i saw this as a letter in a periodical today and i wandered what ppls opinions are:

"Are people who get a regular dose of endorphins and other 'feel-good' stimuli through activities such as recreational drugs, spending time in wilderness regions and taking part in extreme sports, less likely to have orthodox religious beliefs? "
humm. . . . endorphins make us secularised???

lolli x x x

My spelling wobbles. its very good spelling but it wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong place

sunbeamSILVER Member
old hand
1,032 posts
Location: Madrid, United Kingdom

naaaah I reckon it's all tantric babe - everything we do in life is an act of worship; be it to god, humankind, Allah, Mother Earth and The Cosmic Father or just Life itself. Why is praying any more spiritual than eating, talking, creating things of beauty, having sex, dancing, twirling fire?

If you enjoy it and you appreciate it and you worship the life force in whatever shape or form then you're as spiritual as they come.

Well that's what I reckon anyway

"I don't take drugs. I am drugs" - Salvador Dali


DomBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK

There probably isn't a direct link. Sunbeam, I like what you're saying - I reckon all acts of joy and love is what religions should be about. Praying serves a role, but I reckon only a miniscule percentage of people who pray do so for the reasons I'd consider worthy, but that's another discussion.

'Normal' surburbian life is historically based on what religions instructed us to do, and the fear of religion kept that 'normal' pretty consistent and rather dull over the years.

Those who break away from the 'normal' also breakaway from the classic rigidly imposed rules, and hence religion. These days we all like to rebel from that which we see as controlling. Those that break away often adopt another set of rules, but as they're not the historically religious rules religion loses promeniance in peoples lives.

So, all movement and rebellion from the norm is a movement from religion.
Make sense?

646 posts
Location: Mpls, MN, USA

Give me spirituality over religion any day. Personally I don't think life is rigid enough to warrent a set pattern of worship. There are more ways to celebrate or give praise than any one individual can concieve. In our own way we all do things, both religious and secular, that could be defined as "prayer". Its all relative and situational.

Fuzzy Dice.......................................

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA

I really enjoy and support what both Dom and Sunbeam said.

Adding to that, I think too that there is an extreme difference between religion and spirituality. Some of the most religious go-to-church-3-times-a-week people I know are the least spiritual people I know. They are so wrapped up in the church and payment of dues there (either in time, money or physical presence) they fail to see the divine in life itself, in the very act of living and appreciating the gifts we have been given.

Some of the most intensely spiritual people I know, those who are so connected with the divine that they seem to ooze it, never set foot in any consecrated house.

I think that the people who inquired about that have a very limited scope of what spirituality really is. I feel closer to the divine everywhere but in a church or religious ceremony...In the kitchen cooking, hugging my child, river hiking, looking at the stars, spinning, laughing/crying with friend, etc....

So many people who are religiously driven seek to find peace, without realizing that in that seeking they cause themselves more stress over the bumps in life's road than need be. All emotion, the adrenaline driven euphoria down to the darkest depression are blessings in their own way and serve to teach lessons, it is up to us to truly want to learn. Those who find the divine outside of an organized religion, outside of a set ruling book I find not only have more inner peace but more overall appreciation for life.

Thanks Lolli for giving us something to think about!

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

i8beefy2GOLD Member
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA

I was raised a Christian, but became disillusioned at an early age because it just didn't fit me. As a result, I became a devoute atheist for several years. Now, as I have begun to study the occult, eastern religions, and philosophy though, I've become a far more spiritual person than I ever thought I could be. It's ironic when people ask me what religion I am, because I can only reply by saying my religion has no name. Saying we are this or that denomination, following other "religious leaders" in telling us how to lead our spiritual lives just never made sense to me, and was part of what drove me away from religion.

Now that I've rediscovered that thread of true sprituality in myself, it has been one of the most rewarding experiences in my life. It served a purpose: kind of discovering insights into HOW to live MY life, as apposed to having someone else TELL me how to. And I've had several spiritual leaders agree with me when I explain why my religion has no name.

So I guess that the original post makes sense... Anyone willing to go against the social grain and do drugs, or extreme activities considered "unorthodox" by the public obviously would TYPICALLY have a more adventurous and openminded attitude towards life, so wouldn't it make sense that they would be more open to other unorthodox religions as well as those activities. Perhaps, searching a plethora of religions for the same feeling of life that they get from their other interests would just come more naturally to such individuals.

After all, I'd reckon the majority of people are raised into a religion, so it would probably take a bit of a rebellious attitude to not only go against orthodox social beliefs, but orthodox familial beliefs too...

67 posts
Location: St. Louis, MO

I have many opinions on religion, that, in the grand scheme of things, probably don't even matter. I like what everyone here is saying. Many times, I think, a few people with "power" either don't study enough or just plain misunderstand what the "leader/head" of a "religious movement" said or taught and take it to the Nth degree. And too many times, the people subject to those in "authority" don't actually research or aren't allowed to study(through fear or intimidation) what/why they believe what they do. You can never go wrong actually studying about the amazing men and women in this world's history and their teachings that have made a spiritual impact. They all have something to teach us. I try to follow what I perceive as the Way. I'm trying to stay off of my soap box as much as possible here. But, alas, I step up on it...The only thing that annoys me is when people are unstudied. Whether your a Christian, Atheist, Satanist, Buddhist, Spiritualist, Agnostic, Undefined, whatever, at least show yourself studied/experienced in what you profess.

Anyway, I have an ego I'm trying to destroy, and my posting isn't helping that, so I'm gonna shut up now.


Amateurs practice something until they get it right; professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

King Of Bongoaddict
522 posts
Location: Berlin

Cause or effect?

Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.

279 posts
Location: Bath, UK

Once again I am warmed by the insights offered here... sitting at my desk all glowy now. I agree with everyone, sunbeam & Pele put it particularly well.

Magnus... pay it forward

3,149 posts
Location: London

i reckon that there is a pretty direct link going on. Organised religions (both major and more minor spiritualismish ones) generally include some form of breaking away from everyday consciousness, and by extension feeling a sense of something larger and more important.

There are various techniques that religious ceremonies employ to make people more inclined to feel quite different, in a similar manner to the feeling you get from endorphins or hallucinogens. Stuff like burning incense, meditating, fasting or control of breathing (which includes singing hymns) can induce effects of euphoria in a similar way to more commercial drugs or crazy activities. Look at most religions, and they'll include some way of putting you in an alternate mind state.

So some people get their fix going to church, some people fire twirl, some people take drugs, and the really hardcore do all three.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

primative_toyshappy hunting
228 posts
Location: Brisnyland

everyone believes, everybody breathes, it doesnt matter into which institution you instust ur conciousness, we are all still in search of that ultimate rush... certinly there may be links between hebitual fluffy trippers and tappered on the knees type, but each to his own, we are all hunting and only the lucky few find out what they're looking few, and only the amazing find it. im feeling a little philisophical tonite, definately one of those end to weekends.
thanks for being a vent,, hey simian, how are those doubles going... hope everything is still yummy lolli

happy hunting
myth mitch

regret nothing, learn everything


13 posts
Location: Laurel MD USA

To me its always depended on which part of the elephant the blind man is touching when you try to define "orthodox". After all , all the current 'major' religions were all started by people called rebels, troublemakers, degenerates, ammoral, immoral, foolish and by many more epithets by their contemporaries.Give any unorthodox idea enough time and it becomes orthodox.( and vice-versa its a viscious glorious circle)

Thomas Jefferson once wrote that you should never let another person come between you and your personal vision of deity.

Bad monkey!!!!

Death is only a change of address

Paddyback from the dead...sort of
884 posts
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

(Totally off topic, but I thought I'd point out that that's three posts by three different mokeys all in a row. HoP is a zoo!)

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PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA

There is a form of Paganism whose credo is

"All modes of pleasure are my worship."

Sounds good to me!

Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

6,650 posts


 Written by: Pele

I think too that there is an extreme difference between religion and spirituality.

Certainly not by definition but by practice wink

But "recreation vs. religion"... rolleyes

*bites tongue till bleeding*

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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