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Forums > Social Discussion > fire safety in poi video; and elsewhere

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:I wasnt really sure where to post this...

I was watching the fire safety video that came with my poi (finally) I thought it wierd that a video that is so anal about fire precautions would demonstrate that fire safety gear (extinguisher, blanket etc.) be located in the same place as the fuel.

This also got me thinking about what safety people use when they spin. For example Ive never spun with a safety. Once a couple of months ago my housemate set fire to a bush spinning his staff in our backyard. We rushed over to stamp it out but remembered that we both werent wearing any shoes, so then there was a mad dash to the hose before we had it under control.

I learn fire poi around a campfire on climbing trips so I was drunk when I first began. And dont even get me started on the shellite shennanigans. (not with fire twirling, just general shennanigans)

I know that this behaviour is not the one that is advocated, but I would like to know in all honesty what precautions you guys use with regards to fire safety. And what regard you give to risk vs consequences.



sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I always, always have a spotter with a fire blanket. Usually someone who has seen me spin a lot and will know whether I am in trouble or not.

Also, make sure I have enough room to avoid people and check what is around me before I even consider lighting up.

Also, since I use paraffin, there is slightly less risk of setting stuff around me on fire due to spray. And I use a spin-bucket.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:My precautions are mostly

- a spotter with a wet towel
- keeping the fuel away from the performance area (usually around the corner of the house)
- a kitchen fire extinguisher in case of fuel fire
- safer-fiber clothing

I know some people who use a much more cautious setup, but this is also more precautions than are made by a lot of other people I know.


p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:see, with regards to spotters;

I dont have a designated spotter because Im confident enough that if I get into trouble its going to be pretty obvious for the people that are around me.

Im typically in an open area, because bush fires suck, except in the backyard - but we spin right next to the pool with the intention of jumping in if we become stuck to our wicks. I spin alone, but only around the pool for this reason.

Ive been sprayed with a chemical fire extinguisher before and I almost choked to death so I would prefer to just stop drop and roll.

wet towels also give me the willies, because when wet stuff touch a hot stuff it boils. A dry woolen blanket smothers just as well.

So the second part of what Im asking is do people just blindly follow the precautions layed down by those before them (or in the fire safety DVD) or is there a weighing up of the risks in the head, deciding the probability of incidents and going from there.

Also, do people find that the more skilled and confident they get the less precautions they take?


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:Aston, a few questions

Originally Posted By: aston Usually someone who has seen me spin a lot and will know whether I am in trouble or not.

has this person ever seen you in trouble? if not how do you kow they will know? how do you make sure that the lots of times they have seen you spin have simply created a routine of nothing going wrong for them to be complacent about?

Originally Posted By: aston Also, make sure I have enough room to avoid people and check what is around me before I even consider lighting up.
Is this a detailed pre inspection or a quick glance?



sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:and sister, do you keep your fire extinguisher next to your fuel dump?

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:Originally Posted By: WoodlandAppleAston, a few questions

Originally Posted By: aston Usually someone who has seen me spin a lot and will know whether I am in trouble or not.

has this person ever seen you in trouble? if not how do you kow they will know? how do you make sure that the lots of times they have seen you spin have simply created a routine of nothing going wrong for them to be complacent about?

Probably a bit on the complacent side, but since it is usually the same person, and they have seen me practice (a lot), they also are able to see if I try something I have only got down marginally, so pay a bit more attention then. At least, I hope they do...

Originally Posted By: WoodlandAppleOriginally Posted By: aston Also, make sure I have enough room to avoid people and check what is around me before I even consider lighting up.
Is this a detailed pre inspection or a quick glance?



Depends on time mostly. Also, since I tend to spin in the same places, it is usually a case of checking whether anything has changed since the last time. If I spin somewhere new, I will do a more detailed look.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:Originally Posted By: WoodlandAppleand sister, do you keep your fire extinguisher next to your fuel dump?

It typically stays with my spotter. They have to cover the distance between themselves and the fuel, regardless of where the extinguisher is, so I prefer to have it resting where it's unlikely to get engulfed in the fire. Since I use a Coleman's/lamp oil blend, it's a little more volatile than just lamp oil, so I wouldn't trust it to stat neatly in the bucket if it lit.


p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s

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ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra

Total posts: 810
Posted:Quote:Ive been sprayed with a chemical fire extinguisher before and I almost choked to death so I would prefer to just stop drop and roll.

Hrmmm. Well if the person using the extinguisher had actually read the instructions then they would have know extinguishers are not for use on people particularly the CO2 ones. Extinguishers are for in the unlikely but possibly horrible event that your fuel dump or something else around you catches on fire.

I always take at least one. Sure i have never had to use it but the one day some thing happens to go horribly wrong i know i will be a lot happier that i have carried it around all that time.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:^^^^ it was an accident; I wasnt on fire I was in the back of a 4WD and the extinguisher broke free; pulled the pin on itself and emptied its canister in my face. I swear it was out to get me.

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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forrestfire
SILVER Member since Aug 2009

forrestfire

lonely spinner
Location: Houston, Texas

Total posts: 67
Posted:my gf with her soaking wet towel...
a water hose. fire safe gloves for her...
a lot of stuff.


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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:Umm, a ton the first time I spun. Since I learned that nothing happens when I get hit by kerosene soaked wicks, I don't really use one.

As I've gotten better I've used less, but if I have someone such as my parents or someone else that knows how to be a safety, I'll have them be my safety.

If I'm spinning anywhere with anything flammable, which is not much places around me smirk

I also have a safety if I'm trying something new such as spiral wraps, which I have yet to do with fire.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:forrestfire...a water hose is actually incredibly *unsafe*. Water spreads fuel fires instead of putting them out. Think about if you spill oil on a counter, and put water on it, it only spreads it about. Now imagine that on fire.

Fire extinguishers are for use on the fuel dump, or in case of area fires. When we do outside stuff, our spotters are between the fire artist and the fuel dump.

I've watched professionally trained safeties get distracted or have something happen where they missed and the guy got burned. I've also seen a "safety" (ie: a person who was handed a wet towel) panic and not know what to do and I stepped in.
Never assume. Always run things over and make it clear what to do.

It's why we made the video. To keep like that from happening.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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T-S-A
SILVER Member since May 2009

T-S-A

Magic Monkey Juice
Location: Saaf Ingerland Innet

Total posts: 252
Posted:I keep a wet towel next to me, and that's pretty much it. I am confident enough in my abilities that I can get myself out of most situations. I have had a few spiral wraps go wrong and leave burns over my hands, but thats about it. I never spin fast enough to loose control anyway. And when I do, it's normaly with other spinners who would help, as I would if I saw someone set their face on fire.

"We were making castles in the sand: Now we swim in the seas that swept them away"

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This Jaded Flesh
SILVER Member since Oct 2009

This Jaded Flesh

One soul is as good as another...
Location: England, Durham

Total posts: 323
Posted:



"I may lack virtue, but I'm penitent"

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Originally Posted By: T-S-AI keep a wet towel next to me, and that's pretty much it. I am confident enough in my abilities that I can get myself out of most situations. I have had a few spiral wraps go wrong and leave burns over my hands, but thats about it. I never spin fast enough to loose control anyway. And when I do, it's normaly with other spinners who would help, as I would if I saw someone set their face on fire.


That's part of the problem though. Complacency.
We never think it will happen to us. We always think we're safe and that someone else will notice.

It's why they are accidents. Too many variables and you never know.

It's why we made the video, to raise awareness.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

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Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:hey, Pele the reason why I started this thread was because in the Vid, the fire extinguisher is placed WITH the fuel dump.

It made me think that most people use safety without thinking about how to use it. I believe, unintentionally, the vid demonstrates complacency by showing this.

I also believe there is a big difference between complacency and competency.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas

Total posts: 3776
Posted:woodland...how long have you been spinning? even the most experience spinners who know exactly what they're doing stuff up sometimes...

i've seen poi & staff heads fall off & fly away randomly! eek

i must admit i also get a bit lazy with the safety gear, but more often than not, when i'm spinning someone else has safety gear nearby & i'm in a group of very experienced spinners who know what's normal & when help is needed. & the safety gear is usually a fire extinguisher to put out the fuel dump & a wet towel to put the spinner out. simple to use & very safe & effective. thankfully, we haven't had to use them...but you JUST NEVER KNOW! luckily, the fuel that we generally use is safe enough to actually dunk a lit poi in there & it won't set the whole thing on fire.

you're right, there is a big difference between complacency & competency. but sometimes neither of those matter, accidents happen & people get hurt...so it pays to be safe!!!! smile


& spinnerofdetroit...NOTHING happens when you get hit with kero soaked wicks?! eek holy crap, really?? mind you...i guess it depends where you hit. when i was a newbie, i managed to hit my eye...clever i know! laugh3 but yeah, that REALLY hurt, didn't do too many great things for my eyesight, i lost half an eyebrow & wound up with a burn on my eyelid...kero sucks! tongue2


do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!

if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!

smile! grin it confuses people!

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:^^^ not for very long.

I know accidents happen; Ive been walking for most my life but I still trip over occasionally. That doesnt mean I wear knee pads just incase.

risk means different things to different people, and as a result the attitude to safety measures will be different.

would anyone say, that someone who is aware of the risks of spinning without a safety and is prepared in that knowledge is better off than someone who has a safety that is not paying attention/being overconfident?


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas

Total posts: 3776
Posted:walking & flinging burning balls of fuel around your body are unbelievably different categories of risk my friend! smile (even for a total klutz like me! laugh3 )

& how long is not very long? you've been on here less than two months...so i'm guessing it's maybe four/five months? not that it should matter - i know people who've been spinning for ten years or more, & they ALWAYS have safety gear, for that one time they might stuff up. it happens. seriously - it's not that hard to have a wet towel & a fire extinguisher handy. everyone gets overconfident sometimes - & that's usually when the accidents happen. how is someone who's spinning without a safety, prepared? they're prepared to burn themselves? umm


do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!

if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!

smile! grin it confuses people!

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:yes, fire twirling for about half a year - but been laying with fire and fuel for maybe 10 years? dont get me wrong, I have bought a fire blanket; am looking at fire extinguishers and I only do tricks with fire that Im uber confident with.

This topic is just a way for me to understand and to think about how safety and risk is used and understood by other people.

For me the risks of fire twirling seem fairly low in comparison to other things that I do.

TWhat I mean with my question is the person who spins without safety can acknowledge the risk they put themselves in, and can therefore make a decision as to how they act. WHether to do a certain trick or not, they are prepared to help themselves out as much as possible. A person who is relying on inadequate safety will be caught underprepared and by surprise.


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Originally Posted By: gita
i've seen poi & staff heads fall off & fly away randomly! eek



yep, that actually happened to me last week, first time ever. luckily the poi head flew harmlessly down the beach and all I had to do was run over and cover it with sand...then do a big taaaaaa daaaa! take a bow thing.

Whew...it could have been worse, much worse. I'm spinning in Thailand and there's no such thing as safety. Eire extinguisher? huh? Tons of flammable material around, yep. Wet towel ? nope, in case of accident run and jump into the sea. Spotter? say what?

Needless to say, those poi ended up in the garbage post haste and even though I thought they were a crappy design, my better judgement failed me here and I used the anyway....Doh!

If that had happened at home during an iin the round or thrust show......


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natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:When I spin at shows we have fire exhinguishers, wet towels and safeties. When I spin in park with friends, it's usually wet towel.

I would say I'm a safety nazi. i.e. at weekly spins, in someone didn't bring any safety gear with them, I resent having to share mine. Mostly because I know that if I wasn't there, they'd spin without the wet towel and no amount of reminding or me talking to them about it has changed anything. Also, they don't extinguish their gear properly and I know one day they'll set my towel alight because of it.

That said I was at a circus fest last weekend and volunteered to be fire safety for a fire show that I didn't know was even on (if I had I would have brought my gear and Id have been IN the show).
Afterwards I had a lady come up and chastise me for not being safe, i.e. not wearing shoes and wearing a long shirt.
I tried to explain that when I fire spin I don't wear shoes and step on the drip fires with my feet anyway (like I pat out fire on my person with my bare hand) but she still didn't accept this. Of course if the fire was bigger than i was used to, I would have used the wet blanket that was on my lap.
I also didn't understand her compaining about my long skirt when there were performers onstage wearing SYNTHETIC (who I had suggested to change but had gotten glared at).

I guess everyone has different ideas about what is safe. Some people don't like fire on skin so wear long sleaves and shoes. Some people prefer less clothes because clothes catch fire (i.e. act like wicks) while skin, less so.

I guess as a student doctor I have perfected a "you were acting like an idiot, you deserve this wound" glare and put it to use on fire dancers who didnt have a wet towel at least...


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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:Nice, for me, I almost always have at least a wet towel, last 2-3 times I spun, I didn't because I was surrounded by bounds of snow and often actually in that snow.

Since it was really cold, at the time I just wore a t-shirt and no my kevlar sleeves. When it's warm out, I will go no shirt and my kevlar sleeves. I use the sleeves for a couple reasons: 1. Just in case so I don't get burned 2. I enjoy having arm hair.


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:spinning on the countryside in a dry environment NOT having cared for fire safety precautions and / or being drunk imho is .... criminal.

lest we want is some bushfire lit by some spinners, causing half the country going up in smoke...

Safety precautions generally depend on your environment and circumstances. There are different levels in urban parks than (for example) in the outback.

But one thing's for sure: There is never "too much fire safety"... wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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WoodlandApple
BRONZE Member since Dec 2009

WoodlandApple

addict
Location: Australia

Total posts: 474
Posted:^^^

yep with the dryness. I havnt lit up at all during this summer.
but with the drunk stuff (not advocating drunk spinning) would you consider being around a campfire while drinking criminal?


sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

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