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Sister Eleven
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

Sister Eleven

owner of the group property
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1277
Posted:Sorry in case there's another thread on this; didn't see anything in the preliminary search.

So after seeing the difference between pure lamp oil and a Coleman's/lamp oil blend, I'd like to get some white gas to keep around too. I live in a small apartment, no garage or anything, so I have to store it out on our balcony (I prefer no volatile fuels indoors). I'm wondering if there are any special tips for safety/environmental friendliness when storing fuel outdoors in a rainy environment (beyond covering it so the can doesn't rust out).


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OuchStaff
BRONZE Member since Sep 2009

OuchStaff

journeyman
Location: The netherlands

Total posts: 65
Posted:well if you keep it in a plastic box it should be ok i think

Ouch o.O

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:What sort of container will you be keeping the fuel in? Reason I'm asking is I've had two paint cans filled with white gas spontaneously develop leaks and now as a precaution, I replace them every year.

The guys at the paint store didn't seem surprised when I told them what happened.

I personally keep my fuel can in a Rubbermaid container, outside and so far there's been next to no visible rust showing up on the Coleman's or paint cans. I only do that in the summer though, In the winter I keep the whole shebang in my van as it doesn't heat up as much in the sun and doesn't give me that eerie feeling that there's a bomb in my backseat feeling.

I've never had a Coleman's can leak so maybe just pour the unused fuel back into that after you finished burning for the evening. Or get yourself a proper plastic gas can, like for filling up lawnmowers and such.


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Originally Posted By: Stout Or get yourself a proper plastic gas can, like for filling up lawnmowers and such.

I will be doing this as well and have the apartment situation of keeping it on the balcony. I think having a tarp or something for added privacy and weather protection to drape over it would be good as well (gives more ventilation than a storage container on a balcony I think), then use the smaller fuel bottle and the tin (like the ones available in the HoP shop) for active spin times.

The fire safety video helped a lot with cleanup lessons and everything, but I'm looking for more info on how to clean the 1L bottle and tins properly so a true gas can will be my storage. I'm also doing my fuel research now during the prep phase.

I'll let you know what I find, but those are my plans for so far concerning storage.

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1259643695)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:In the uk I would look at COSHH mind you I hesitate to think about the health and safety implications of storing flammable liquids on a balcony.

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:I will have a think at work today and get back to you.

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:A couple of questions.
How much are you likely to want to store? The fire department are likely to tell you
Even the smallest amount of burning flammable liquid is potentially a serious risk to human life

Whats the access to the balcony from the outside like?
Is the balcony a fire escape?

While I dont know what the law is there with it being a potential explosive. You should really if its being stored outside need to lock it away in a metal hazard storage cabinet with flammable signs, but that will improve the chances of some censored trying to brake into the box. Also if it gets too cold alcohol can still freeze (hence stout moving it into a van, a couple of degrees can make all the difference) and split the container spilling when in melts again.
As far as ventilation is concerned you really dont need it in a storage cupboard for purely flammables. A complete air change once every month will be more than enough, so if you go in there regularly you can ignore that. You only need good ventilation in a room were flammable liquids are going to be stored. Oh while I think about it you shouldnt really dispense in the storage area.

To be honest with you I think you would be better off putting a padlock on a kitchen cupboard and keep a fire blanket and CO2 extinguisher close.

Hope that helps a bit. If you can answer the questions I may be able to work something out.


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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:Zip-Lock bag.

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:lolsign That could do the job. Still cant find any American laws concerning this.

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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:I have a closed in (solid/privacy fence styled with a concrete floor) and covered balcony with an equipment closet, it's pretty private but lock and key plus insulation are some very good things for me to consider since I am on the first floor. I don't intend on storing any more than a small gas can for a push mower could hold, but of course I don't want it to be at all public (hence the tarp idea) or unsafe. I'd be filling up at a local service station who carries kerosene for heating since getting any info on where lamp oil is sold is such a mystery (I've heard everything from Home Depot to the arts and crafts stores, but no place dealing with outdoorsman or caming supplies seems to have it and have told me to check those).

People with lawnmowers and space heaters generally keep their fuel in their sheds and such so I'm lost on the American laws that would exist for commonly purchased items though...

EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1260215872)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:Well unless someone comes up with something just a way of locking it up somewhere would seem to cover you.

Have fun and stay safe.


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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:I have a question, would the 1L fuel containers be good for storing fuel, or does it leak fumes?

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:While everything leaks fumes to a small degree (You should go into my chemical store at work after a long weekend Wooooooeeee!)
If its made out of high density polyethylene I would imagine it would be fine.
A polycarbonate bottle I really dont think would work as you have to be careful which fuel you use with one.


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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:It's naphtha, and its pretty thick. The bottle looks kinda like a waxy color, I'm not sure about the material, but it seems to be made out of the same stuff as a bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol. Also does anyone know about using isopropyl for poi? Just wondering, but I think the swinging might put it out, because I made a makeshift torch with it out of a stick and a piece of tissue, and it goes out extremely easy.
EDITED_BY: SpinnerofDetroit (1260392025)


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Felex
SILVER Member since Jun 2009

Felex

Destroyer of worlds and ooo shiny.
Location: In my own head

Total posts: 268
Posted:HDPE should have the recycling symbol mark thing as a number 2.

While If Ive got this right Isopropyl is 2-Propanol. Basically really low flash point around 12C but has really heavy vapours and it evaporates really quickly . So while its highly flammable I personally wouldnt use it as I would not be happy with the chance of the vapours igniting were I did not want them too.

Check out the fire training and safety. There are links to safety data sheets.


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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:Isopropyl Alcohol is "Rubbing Alcohol" and I can't see how it would have a good use for poi plus it's very unpredictable. I think especially for being a fire newbie like myself you follow all of fire safety recommendations and deal with more predictable fuels like K-1 (kerosene) or Paraffin Oil/Liquid (finally researched the difference because there is an international language barrier and in the USA paraffin is sold for Tiki torches while other counties refer to what we call kerosene as "paraffin") those have a high flash point and the vapors are of a reasonably low heat (for fire of course) that come from the vapors and not the liquid.

Also SoD, watch the fire safety video and do some drills/checklists a few times plus have all MSDS for the exact fuel being used since manufacturers vary so much and additives are a big concern especially in the USA. Also if you ordered the bottle from the shop it's safe, I just think it's more suited for quick transport and wouldn't use it to fill up at a service station. If you're just going to get prefilled metal tins of K-1 or another fuel I think you'll be ok, but make sure to have a funnel and all other items you'll need not sold on this site:)


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:I have watched the video a few times, I can't find lamp oil anywhere, so I just have Coleman's. I'll be sure to print up an MSDS for it and keep it idk where, but somewhere easily accessible. I just got out today and practiced outside where I can do whatever I want without hitting the low ass ceiling in my house. OMG I got really good, about a month ago (last time I practiced outside) I was always hitting myself getting them tangled, and didn't have too much emotion in it all. But now, I just got really good at giving it a really great feeling to it and I kept going in and out cause it's freezing. I only hit myself once the entire time (about half hour) grin I can finally say, I think I'm ready for fire! It was such a great feeling, before there was not even much emotion for me, nothing like this. Even without fire, it was such a high and I just didn't want to stop, but my face was about to freeze. I was just using unlit fire poi listening to Basshunter. I can say, I really love where my style is going. So far it's kind of a mix between Nick and Sage from the safety video, along with others I have seen online. I just can't wait to show people grin grin grin

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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EpitomeOfNovice
GOLD Member since Sep 2009

EpitomeOfNovice

Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
Location: Dover, Delaware USA

Total posts: 787
Posted:That's a very good start! I keep a flexible binder with all safety info and sheets in my gear bag I carry all my stuff in (it fits all my poi stuff, accessories, and safety gear. Everything but my staffs grin ).

It would probably be more economical to get K-1 Kerosene (and safer I think, at least more chemically stable). Do you have a gas station or a Home Depot/(any hardware store or heating supplier) nearby that carries it? Might be a good thing to look into considering the low cost (especially when you only pump what you need that 1L container should be no more than $2 to fill) and steady, cool flame as well.

I think you'll be able to get lamp oil in the summer more easily because it's sold with the summer seasonal patio goods like Tiki torches.

You can actually google your area for stations that carry K-1 and search the local hardware stores for "in store only items" to save on driving around and asking 20 questions as well. yes


~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:It makes it hard because I don't have a license yet, I get it next week. Thanks for that, that'll help for sure. I didn't even think about googling it. ^_^
Edit: OMG I hate Google! I can't find even a single link that leads to kerosene and not a kerosene heater! At one point I thought I found it, but it was just a 5 gallon gas can.

EDITED_BY: SpinnerofDetroit (1260483257)


The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:try googling Kerosene trenton then possibly yer area code

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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SpinnerofDetroit
GOLD Member since Oct 2009

SpinnerofDetroit

All High Dude, Ruler of What You Want
Location: Trenton, MI, USA

Total posts: 2280
Posted:I have, I asked my parents though, and they said we can get K-1 at the gas station for somewhere around $5 a gallon. Pretty cheap I must say. I'll have to use a little of the Coleman's to get it lit though, it's getting quite cold here.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass grin

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