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Posted: I see Nevisoul do them in basically all of his videos. I kinda see how they work but I'm not entirely sure how to go about getting into them. Anyone else have this problem or know how to do them?
You talking about where he puts his hands together? Thats not really a lockout, the lockout is what he's doing before that, Poi seperated.
What he does isn't classifiable under any terminology I'm aware of... the most complicated lingo I can think of is "Bringing ones hands together during a lockout"
Check out the up/down stalls that he's throwing in there, they are the key to this one... Enter into it as you would with that up/down stall in the middle but don't let them stop and don't change their direction. Pull them apart before they wrap up, you should get a half beat in before they do so.
Yeah, I've always known lockouts as that static spin, same direction, split time move with both Poi on the same side. It was called lockout because it is a lock out from a weave but I think that is maybe not such a good name for the position anymore because of all the transitional applications that position has as a neutral common ground between so many different patterns.
I've always liked that move...I can't do it but I'll try to work on it today. Thanks MNS for the explanation, last time I tried this I felt there was something missing.
Quote:Yeah, I've always known lockouts as that static spin, same direction, split time move with both Poi on the same side. It was called lockout because it is a lock out from a weave but I think that is maybe not such a good name for the position anymore because of all the transitional applications that position has as a neutral common ground between so many different patterns. I always assumed lockouts were basically an interruption of a pattern. For instance doing a regular flower but stopping and tossing in a static beat when your arms were, say horizontal. I pretty much use your definition as a base, or resting position..or when I'm on the way to a a new pattern and manage to forget just where it was I was going.
Kind of like...Oh Crap, what was I going to do ?!. Quick!! "lockout", Anybody notice ? Now, think up something new.
I also find they're excellent for varying your speed in transitioning from one move to the next, like going from a fast weave to a fast windmill through this somewhat slower static position. Even holding it for just a couple of beats *breaks it up* so to speak.
astonSILVER Member Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts Location: South Africa
I am with Stout.
I always thought of them as stopping your arms in a movement so that you get another circle where there might not normally be.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.] "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here." - Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
interruption of a pattern eh... I guess the definition I've been using still kind of works for them then. I'd still like to expand on our use of the term as a static beat because I think that is correct and it is fundamental for transitions.
The hand orientation then doesn't particularly matter (meaning the hands could be vertically stacked), and the parallelness of planes aren't terribly important either but the hands do have to be spaced such so that the Poi do not hit which is what allows it to be an indefinitely static spin position.
The "lockout" itself is still an interruption of a pattern. The position however serves as a useful neutral common ground between many different patterns and so becomes a transitional point.
So lockouts can be done in opposites? If so i suppose we can add in wheel and wall plane as well. I'll do 'em as a pattern interruption in the weave, wheel plane and out in front of my body higher than the weave circles so it makes an interesting pattern. Likewise I do them in turns, maybe throw a few isolation beats in there, but the goal is to create a line between fwd spinning wheel plane and a rev spinning one.
However you use them, I think the importance lies in describing them as one Poi plane inside the other then maybe reference Nick's wallplane flowers video to expand on the idea.
Quote:The "lockout" itself is still an interruption of a pattern. The position however serves as a useful neutral common ground between many different patterns and so becomes a transitional point.
Yes, toss it up into a windmill, or do a wrap sequence..... I find them a versatile pattern to gain some thinking time in, I didn't choose this as a resting position, it just kinda happened.
Quote:Stout, If you choreograph your routines or even just your sequences it will eliminate that problem.
Yes it would. I have a collection of sequences, or combos that I use but I've been avoiding choreographing a solo routine, not because I'm lazy, but because I want to "spin creatively"...freestyle. I do spin choreographed routines with a group though, so I'm not adverse to it but that presents it's own set of "general weirdness" where nobody really knows what they're doing, so we're just winging it as we go, and have been for the past four years. We need to bring a pro to kick our asses and tell us what we need to work on.
That makes more sense. Perhaps we should come up with some sort of terminology for that trick then?
But if I understand correctly, an actual lock out is just adding more beats where they normally wouldn't go. For example, if I was doing a chase flower and I stopped in the vertical positions to let each Poi make another beat, that would be a lockout?
In answer to all your comments and questions just now "yes, always." I still want to find another term for that neutral position besides "lock out." Calling it lockout is I think is throwing folks off.
Stuart (or someone), make us a video! (please) include all four basic combination timing and direction and explain with demonstrations some of the possible applications of static neutral positions.
So now that we're moving away from a focus on the concept as a lockout I think this discussion deserves to either be moved to Noel's Prop Transitions Article (homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/887634/)or to a new thread titled something along the lines of: Transitions using shared static neutral positions" (but I would rather we add it to Noel thread).
A video on lockouts? Really? If you're spinning in any way, move your hands apart so they don't clash.
Opposites is kinda a funny one because they wouldnt clash anyway.
The best application as far as I'm concerned is in teaching transitions.
Prospin flower = moving lockouts.
Neutral position quite simply means the Poi are no longer weaving round one another or anything of that ilk. Essentially they are spinning independently. They may well be in same time or split time still, but their path is not effected by the path of the other one any longer.
This means you can leave one still and do a flower with the other or do flowers with both...
I'm not quite sure where people are getting confused by this idea, I'd say its getting lost in the text somewhere... if you think you get it then you probably do. If anyone has specific questions I'm more than happy to field them...
Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonI dont think it needs a name... "Neutral position" works fine for everyone I tell about it.
I side this idea wholeheartedly.
Quote:I'm not quite sure where people are getting confused by this idea, I'd say its getting lost in the text somewhere
I agree here too. I've never used the term lockouts because I've never been clear on what it really meant. My interpretation made having a name for this "move" rather redundant so I just defaulted to using more words to (hopefully) communicate the idea(s) more effectively.
I suspect the term was coined back in the day when everyone wanted to be famous for creating a term or pattern that they could ( in a way) claim ownership of and this, like the term "fakey", which pretty much equals what *I* defined as lockouts, sort of fell through the cracks but never disappeared completely.