UCOFSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
15,414 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
BAH!

I've recently become a member on a well known computing hardware forum, where there are a number of experts and a number of hobbists (some are both). Due to the nature of the forum, lots of new, and less technology savvy people come for advice.

One thing that annoys me more than anything else (at the moment) is idiots posting their opinion as fact and not saying so.

For example, blanket statements such as:

"Product X is sh!t."
"Everyone knows product Y is only good as a doorstop"
"Product Z is the best in the world."
"X is better than Y which is way better than Z"

...all without posting any sources or proof to back up their utter crap statements.

It's gotten to the point where I'm trying to be as neutral as possible by stating:
"I believe X..."
"I think that Y.."
"In my opinion, Z..."

....just so Im not being a hypocrite!

It just really confusing for users who come to this computer site, ask for people's recommendations or opinions, and idiots post one-sided biased opinion, and make it sound like it's fact, which only results in confusing the original asker.

Im not really expecting this post to go anywhere or for there to be any discussion about it. I also chose to post it here as I think its the most likly place to get any educated and decent thoughts.

EDITED_BY: UnscrupulousChavOffersFoot (1237245483)

duvanancient oachkatzlschwoaf
249 posts
Location: germany


Posted:
omg your post is totally unnecessary and stupid lol ZOMG!!1

grin

UCOFSILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
15,414 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
Ok, so I was wrong about the educated and decent thoughts.

nana

MRCSILVER Member
Funky Blessings Daily
215 posts
Location: USA


Posted:
This is why I like stuff like cnet. Their reviews are comprehensive. They look at a lot of details, and while it's still opinion they also test the computers with a standardized method, to be able to say conclusively which ones are better at specific tasks.

PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
Personally - I often give more credit to an opinion that at least recognises that it is an opinion, than one dressed up as statement of fact.

But yeah, what you have noticed is a social phenomenon that seems to be embedded in our society ie "I believe it, so its a fact to me" (the 'to me' is implied unconsciously). I think this has arisen since we educators began emphasising the teaching of students to voice their opinion on topics they don't know much about, over spending time building solid valid arguments based on evidence and the like.

Obviously I'm not talking about all students in all places, but I do have what I think is some basis for this opinion... I have worked in teaching Logic and Argument to 4th year Education students, I've marked hundreds of essays written by people about to become teachers, and to be honest, only a small fraction seem to be able to grasp that there can be a big difference between stating an opinion and making a valid argument, neither of which necessarily establishes 'facts'.

Facts are slippery little suckers.

smile

J

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


simtaBRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)


Posted:
sounds like the threads over on ubuntuForums which go either

"OMG UBUNTU is teH cool screw winblows"

or the opposite

"UMBUNTU DOESNT WORK DONT INSTALL IT WILL BREAK YOUR COMP!!11!"

and after you question and ask why they said it doesn't work its something stupid like the fact it isn't preloaded with mp3/dvd drivers even though this is expressly stated.

just too many n00bs that need to STFU!!11!!!

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle


Fine_Rabid_DogInternet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...


Posted:
Originally Posted By: simtaSTFU!!11!!!

Ahhh... the golden rule of the internet smile

The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."


astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
simta: I think it is like that on many of the *nix forums.

But yes, at least acknowledging that your milage may vary is a good start.

Random example: for some reason Linux sound drivers do not like my laptops sound card (at least, I have not found one that works). I still use it one another box and it works fine.

And I agree with STFU, but even better is adding ATF afterwards. (And Think First)....

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,693 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia


Posted:
lol.

my girlfriend has this problem in social situations. she speaks speculatively but uses words authoritively. i call her on it all the time.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley


simtaBRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)


Posted:
Originally Posted By: astonsimta: I think it is like that on many of the *nix forums.

But yes, at least acknowledging that your milage may vary is a good start.

Random example: for some reason Linux sound drivers do not like my laptops sound card (at least, I have not found one that works). I still use it one another box and it works fine.


it seems to be especially bad on ubuntuForums, simply because it has become the most well-known distro. i post sometimes on the fedoraForums and there just isn't the same kinds of thread posted.

have you got the intel onboard soundcard? hda...something or other? i did have some problems with that, but as long as i don't try to use it with jack then its fine. i use it to run my music production software when i'm away from my main usb desk/soundCard.

i think a big reason for all this fiction as fact is that alot of forums that have threads of that ilk, people realise that writing balanced opinion just won't get the same notice as STFU N00B.

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle


Fire_MooseSILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA


Posted:
The internets are the best! Don't use anything else!!!

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!


LevFiredance Philosopher
79 posts
Location: Vancouver BC Canada


Posted:
People tend to speak on forums somewhat like real life sometimes, take that into consideration and you'll find that you really can't judge people's statements for it's text... to them it seems right and if you were 'speaking' to them it would be.

simtaBRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)


Posted:
would it still be right? they would still be presenting opinion as fact, even in spoken language you make a distinction generally.

"the geeks have got you" - Gayle


Groovy_DreamSILVER Member
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
Originally Posted By: LevPeople tend to speak on forums somewhat like real life sometimes, take that into consideration and you'll find that you really can't judge people's statements for it's text... to them it seems right and if you were 'speaking' to them it would be.

Yep it's definitely not just an internet phenomenon, imho.

At school we were taught to leave out phrases like "in my opinion" or "i think" in essays and arguments, because it makes the argument appear weaker.

So who's responsibility is it to make sure people aren't being persuaded by overly authoritative statements? Should the statement-maker take this into consideration and add "in my opinion" to everything? Or should the reader think more critically and not take every authoritative statement as fact?
This isn't a rhetorical question btw.

fanged_angelBRONZE Member
poiromaniac
162 posts
Location: liverpool, uk


Posted:
Well essays and arguments are there as persuasive writing, while the very definition of a forum is a place for open discussion


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