thepillow
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

stranger
Location: , Netherlands

Total posts: 8
Posted:Dear all,
I have been trying to master the butterfly hybrids (sometimes called triquetras). See

for an example. I am mastering it slowly, but i have one big problem. The pois always clash, because i don't really know how they should pass each other. Should the one that makes the small circles always be in the front or is it always in the back, or do front and back alternate? If so, how? I'm close to getting the move, but the clashes are annoying, just because i don't know which poi is supposed to be on top.


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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:It doesnt matter which is on top.

I made a "trick yourself into doing this hybrid" tutorial but it wasnt very comprehensive so I dunno if it'll help, really at the stage you're at.

For ME its easier to have the poi doing the smaller circles on the bottom and in front, but thats different for everyone. (Thats doing overhand butterfly, too, with the right doing the trifoil flower)

Quick enough response or what? Yeah... I trawl these forums just WAITING to discuss poi. I have a problem.


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thepillow
BRONZE Member since Sep 2008

stranger
Location: , Netherlands

Total posts: 8
Posted:That IS one bloody fast response! My response to your response is also rather fast, showing a certain amount of despair from my side as well!
Thx mate


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I think I saw few of them it the 4 Vulcan video.

by Noel I think,

:R

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POI THEO(R)IST

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Mucky
SILVER Member since Apr 2008

Mucky

Rum-Swilling Combustioneer
Location: Macungie, PA, USA

Total posts: 227
Posted:I couldn't load the video, so I don't know how that person teaches it, but a simple way to determine which poi should be out front is to just do a 2:1 butterfly without moving your arms - have one hand doing one beat and the other hand doing two, since that's really what this pattern consists of. Try each on in front until you find the one that stops clashing. Once you get your hands timed right, then you can add the arm movement in. Getting the timing down very well will also help you keep your hands together when you add the arm motion - when I first pegged that move I'd always separate my hands a bit during the second "petal" and it didn't look as clean as it could.

Good luck!


Bouncing Baby Pipe!

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:As a note, you can have cateyes in this movement as well as any number of petals you like... 4-5 whatever... 3 just seems to be easier for most because its the closest to 1:1 which is just a butterfly...

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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere, USA

Total posts: 290
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mother_Natures_SonAs a note, you can have cateyes in this movement as well as any number of petals you like... 4-5 whatever... 3 just seems to be easier for most because its the closest to 1:1 which is just a butterfly...

What I was gonna say! Here is a playlist of sims that contain some other Bfly hybrids. They won't teach you how to stack and mesh your poi, but will give good ideas of variations.

Mucky had a good suggestion about the 1:2 poly bfly. I don't think you can do these moves with one side or the other always in front.

In a butterfly, there is always some sort of stack: whether it is your arms, hands, or just the poi tethers depends on hand position relative to each other. "Threading" can happen with a microscopic amount of pushing or pulling, so at that size it is more about passing the poi past at the right time and stacking the other one (arm/hand/tether/whatever) over the last. In a triquetra, It is kinda like you are passing back and forth between something like the stack used in a normal TTN and the one used in a Multi-thread (3 or 4 beat TTN).

Also, depending on where you are pointing your triangle of antispin loops, the stacking will change at a different point. Weeeee!

+Alien Jon


+Alien Jon

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Noelski


member


Total posts: 129
Posted:Yup in Vulcan tech blog #4, I did the extension and vertical cateye unit circle hybrids in the four basic timing and direction

Note:
All Spin vs Antispin hybrids involve relative direction of points on the circumference

(aka your hands on the big circle or the small circle if your talking bout cateyes, nick called these big circles arm circles I think )

To be in the opposite direction as the Prop circles.

If you study astronomy its two ecliptics (or any other planatary orbit) in relation to their epicycle.

Hope that helps.

EDITED_BY: Noelski (1232491560)
EDIT_REASON: pluralize ecliptics.


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AlienJon
GOLD Member since Mar 2002

AlienJon

enthusiast
Location: Everywhere, USA

Total posts: 290
Posted:and the geeks come out in force ^^

good one Noel!


+Alien Jon

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DyamiTK
GOLD Member since Mar 2008

DyamiTK

beginner forever
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca, USA

Total posts: 159
Posted:this is the tutorial that made the move click for me:



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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:I saw MNS' and the one here. Together they made it work.

I think need to play with the timings at some stage, but too busy juggling. Curse the poor weather....


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Aaarrgh, DyamiTK, Keep that THING away from me. Its hideous! *claws out eyes*

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bailzz
BRONZE Member since Jan 2009

stranger
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Total posts: 1
Posted:think about how you do a ttn. when your crossing one poi will never be in front always, cross at the bottem and at the top.

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:That is how MNS suggested tricking yourself into doing the move.
What worked for me was finally seeing the dratted thing done in daylight. Turns out it was easy then. .shrug.
Try do it really slowly, even if you have to use a club or stick in the hand that traces the outside circle. It may also help you.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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Mother_Natures_Son
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

Mother_Natures_Son

Rampant whirler.
Location: Geelong, Victoria, Australia!

Total posts: 2418
Posted:Yeah, the TTN thing is also to help make it easier to do the direction change for when you have the hybrid going both ways. Its not required (as I've since realised but always sneakingly suspected) but its whats much easier for me to do it with a familiar movement rather than just changing directions.

As aston said, the TTN thing is just to trick yourself into doing the first half of the movement so you might be able to continue on with it. Yeah, it isn't so hard as you'd think its mostly a mental block that will stop you from performing this one.


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Blue sunshine


Blue sunshine

stranger
Location: Albuqquerque, New Mexico

Total posts: 24
Posted:__Biz-ump___
on this thread, i had know clue untill i stumbled onto it.
Thanks to all who posted the awesome advice and such!
as we say down in good ol' New Mexico,
*
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*
*
*
*
*
*
Gangsters!!
(in a good way)


Trance is the motion-
Check out for events going on all around New Mexico, we have a busy summer ahead of us!
WOOT!~~~

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DrexFactor
GOLD Member since Jul 2007

DrexFactor

Defeats the purpose
Location: Washington, DC USA

Total posts: 73
Posted:Here's a slightly different approach to visualizing your hand positions with this move: when you are at either side of the figure turn your body 90 degrees into it and make sure your hands are square with your shoulders. This will mean that as you do the figure, your entire body will be turning slightly with it rather than having it be purely a shoulder movement.

Doing it this way is really helpful once you start turning with the hybrid because it will ensure the planes you are creating won't cross over each other on either side and thus you'll avoid tangling them both during the duration of the move and when you turn with it. It also helps when learning the transition between CAPs and the butterfly hybrid and how to do an overhead reel-style turn with CAPs.


Peace,
Drex

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Blue sunshine


Blue sunshine

stranger
Location: Albuqquerque, New Mexico

Total posts: 24
Posted:Any good transitions from forward to backwards? i've been workin on these, they're fun!

Trance is the motion-
Check out for events going on all around New Mexico, we have a busy summer ahead of us!
WOOT!~~~

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aston
SILVER Member since Dec 2007

aston

Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
Location: South Africa

Total posts: 4061
Posted:You can do a single TTN-like move pretty much anywhere to get them to change directions.

You can also move your arms into butterfly and switch into or out of a CAP. Which for me is still shaky, but it is getting there. That is, one arm carries on going up and the other goes down. Of course you need to get them on either side of your body to get it working correctly, I think, but it is a very sudden and dramatic move if you do it fluidly enough.


'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

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DrexFactor
GOLD Member since Jul 2007

DrexFactor

Defeats the purpose
Location: Washington, DC USA

Total posts: 73
Posted:Originally Posted By: Blue sunshineAny good transitions from forward to backwards? i've been workin on these, they're fun!

As in switching from forwards opposites (poi move down through center-line) to reverse opposites (poi go up through center-line) or turning?

In the first case, if you're performing the standard triquetra with the triangle pointed straight up, the best place to switch the direction of it is at either of the bottom corners--it's not hard, you just have to keep in mind that coming out of it your hands will switch which one is performing the extension and which one is performing the antispin flower. This is actually great practice for moving between different flower patterns, because the motor skill that allows you to switch from extension to antispin and vice-versa is applicable to all timing and direction changes with flowers.

If you're talking about turns, it's a little bit more complex. Just like a reel turn, it helps to keep your hands parallel at all times and to only turn when they are straight out at either side of your body. The trick there is to realize that you're halfway between petals when you turn and that you'll likely be switching the antispin flower from fore to aft plane either just before or just after the turn. This is where you're most likely to tangle, but just so long as you keep your hands moving in consistent circles, you should be fine.


Peace,
Drex

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Blue sunshine


Blue sunshine

stranger
Location: Albuqquerque, New Mexico

Total posts: 24
Posted:The first graph is right on!! thanks for the insight brotha!! I've been working on these a lot for the upcoming burn!

Trance is the motion-
Check out for events going on all around New Mexico, we have a busy summer ahead of us!
WOOT!~~~

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