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Forums > Social Discussion > Boy, 7 breaks into zoo and feeds anilmals to a croc.

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:SYDNEY, Australia - A 7-year-old boy broke into a popular Outback zoo, fed a string of animals to the resident crocodile and bashed several lizards to death with a rock, the zoo's director said Friday.

The 30-minute rampage, caught on the zoo's security camera, happened early Wednesday after the boy jumped a security fence at the Alice Springs Reptile Center in central Australia, said zoo director Rex Neindorf.

The child then went on a killing spree, bashing three lizards to death with a rock, including the zoo's beloved, 20-year-old goanna, which he then fed to "Terry," an 11-foot, 440-pound saltwater crocodile, said Neindorf.
The boy also fed several live animals to Terry by throwing them over the two fences surrounding the crocodile's enclosure, at one point climbing over the outer fence to get closer to the giant reptile.

'Like he was playing a game'
In the footage, the boy's face remains largely blank, Neindorf said, adding: "It was like he was playing a game."

By the time he was done, 13 animals worth around $5,500 had been killed, including a turtle, bearded dragons and thorny devil lizards, Neindorf said. Although none were considered rare, some are difficult to replace, he said.

"We're horrified that anyone can do this and saddened by the age of the child," Neindorf said.

Lawsuit planned against boy's plans
Alice Springs police said they are unable to press charges against the boy because of his age. Children under age 10 can't be charged with criminal offenses in the Northern Territory. His name was not released because of his age.

Neindorf said he plans to sue the boy's parents.

The boy's small size is probably the reason he didn't trip the zoo's security system, which relies on sensors to detect intruders, Neindorf said.

"I just want people to learn that they can't let their children go and run amok," Neindorf said. "If we can't put the blame onto the child, then someone has to accept the responsibility."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27005221/
br>------------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't know what to say..........HOW messed up in the head have you got to be to do something remotely like this?


HELL yes the parents should be responsible and YES i do think they should take the blame for their psycho child!!!

castrate them all so they can't pollute the rest of the future gene pool.


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Wow.

I'm....speechless.

Where the hell were the parents?
If the kid were to have gotten eaten then it would have been "big bad Terry." I don't think so.
And seriously, they need to figure out a way to punish that child legally because really, future serial killer anyone?

:disgusted:

EDITED_BY: Pele (1223078827)


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Originally Posted By: ailen odditycastrate them all so they can't pollute the rest of the future gene pool

Apologies in advance, but I dont see this as such a big deal given the level of acceptance the current gene pool has for the unbridled slaughter of animals.

If a seven year old aboriginal kid jumps a fence at a zoo in central Australia, and feeds a few lizards to Terry the crocodile, then he probably thought the croc was hungry. Or perhaps, he saw staff feeding the croc for the amusement of tourists, and he decided to copy their behaviour. I dont know why he did it, but chances are he had not reached the age of reason.

If people read some of the letters to the editor regarding this incident, then there are stories of people who, before reacting the age of reason, committed dreadful acts to animals because they did not know any better at the time.

Anyhow, how different is this incident from a fisherman using bait fish, or tourists feeding fish to overweight dolphins at Sea World, or even someone hunting ducks or deer for their own pleasure?

Personally, I think if people find outrage with this incident, then perhaps this is an opportune point in time to look at our society which slaughters billions of cows, poultry, pigs and fish, each and every day, to provide our steaks, hamburgers and eggs benedict. We cull 50% of our poultry for egg production, cut off the beaks of the rest and confine them to cages for the rest of their short lives. And that is just scratching the surface.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:i agree stone.

i doubt the child has reached the age of reason. and to be generalist, it may well be that a 7 yearold running around without his parents in alice springs probably hasnt had the best upbringing in the first place.

really, for a 7 year old i would say these actions are akin to jumping on ants, which i know i've done as a child.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:point of information, why does the article say "sydney, Australia" when its in Alice Springs? sydney and Alice arent even in the same state!!!!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:My Dad told me when he worked at Chester Zoo, he saw a kid- who'd broken in- jumping on pheasant chicks.. This sort of thing is hardly new..

It's not as though a lot of adults act much better towards animals- there's been a list going round of 'things visitors have fed to animals' which includes razor blades, lit cigarettes, aspirin.. hey, someone on this forum's told me they've fed marijuana to meerkats, and still thinks that's funny..
We once had a kid (who would have been about 7 at the time) swinging a live snake round her head by the tail during a handling session.

And yeah, that's fairly dodgy reporting- quite apart from the location suddenly switching state, the $5,500 value for lizards is.. uhh.. a bit on the high side, I wouldn't put it at much more than about 500 in this country for the listed species and numbers, and they're all local to that area..


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I'm bloody terrified of goannas. I would have thought any self respecting goanna would be able to handle a 7 year old!

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Hmmm, must say that I'm with Stone in this one.

That Gene-pool and castration comment is a bit strong, though I can understand why you're getting upset in this way, a_o. I have not seen the footage, so I dunno whether and if, how much the report blows it out of proportion. However,

children often lack a great deal of compassion and it's only that with later age they 'learn' that. 7 is a little late but still... He gets enough examples for his behavior towards animals, just as Hamamelis has pointed out.

I think his parents should be held responsible for the damage and the child should receive some assistance in order to make him understand what he has done.


Originally Posted By: StoneIf a seven year old aboriginal kid jumps a fence at a zoo in central Australia

Where do you get that he was aboriginal, can't find any such information in the article????

The reason for that report bearing "Sydney/Australia" might be that often (at least in India) it's the capital city that gets mentioned (and a few out there still believe Sydney to be the capital of Australia, probably never heard of Canberra wink ) or that the location of the AP writer gets mentioned (as to the origin of the article)...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool

Total posts: 464
Posted:Originally Posted By: hamamelishey, someone on this forum's told me they've fed marijuana to meerkats, and still thinks that's funny..

So thats how the phrase Hakuna Matata was first realised? What did the meerkat do afterwards? Wondered off with a hog?


Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:*And seriously, they need to figure out a way to punish that child legally because really, future serial killer anyone?*
*Quote Pele*


I agree. That type of behaviour is slightly more than distribing and if this was my child acting like this *knocks on wood* this would raise more than one Red flag for me.

and yes, to a point, I see what you are saying Stone re the child copying behaviour he may have seen,by feeding the croc, but Im pretty sure he didnt see anyone bashing in lizards skulls... so the intent seems to be a bit more than innocent copying behaviour. Which is sad.... I hope that he is punished accordingly and his parents are asked about their duty of care and where they were, while he was rampaging..

EDITED_BY: Valura (1223193143)
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TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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PyroWill
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

PyroWill

HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
Location: Staines

Total posts: 4437
Posted:Thats messed up, Although at 7 I doubt he fully understood the implication, like was said earlier, in his mind whats so different to that and stepping on ants? But still its sad, and someone should be made accountable. The parents I say.

And I agree with Pele, definately one to watch on the homicidal note!!


An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind

Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife

"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian

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Loewan
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Loewan

and behold!
Location: Liverpool

Total posts: 464
Posted:Is it really necessary to punish the child? Surely rehabilitation would be more appropriate?

Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?

Wii Console Number: 3294 0297 7824 7498

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:This kid's probably the most hated kid in the world right about now seeing as how this story's global. I googled..and it wasn't until page three that I found an actual Australian source for this story.

I'm not buying the feeding the croc idea. He broke into the zoo after hours and although it's impossible to speculate exactly what was going on in his mind, I highly suspect committing mayhem trumped any idea of concern for the croc's welfare. You gotta figure, if feeding the croc was the idea, he'd have brought some food from home.

So why is there such outrage over this when "other" animals are slaughtered on a daily basis ? I figure these zoo animals are in the same league as pets and the thought of slaughtering these animals who we view as bring brought in from the cold, so to speak, is akin to randomly slaughtering those pets.

A couple of weeks ago we had an incident where some guy shot a child's per Jack Russell terrier, no provocation, just hauled off and blasted it with a shotgun. According to media reports there's Facebook groups set up over this guy, and I've personally seen the rants section of craigslist dominated by all the vengeful things people wanted to do to this guy.

I don't know anything about this kid, but were I to try and make excuses for him, I'd suggest that he was raised in an environment where domestic animals are treated the same as food animals and question whether this was a one off event or whether this child has a history of cruelty to animals.


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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:well, if he wanted to provoke a response.... he sure succeeded in getting attention.Sometimes that is all kids want, they dont care how they get it.

Some kids have not fully learned compassion yet, because they have no experience with connection , often starting with connection to people lacking, and then all the other connections are underdeveloped too. he might not have even perceived the animals as real, or understood they feel pain. Or he may have understood suffering, and had so much of it himself he needed to let some out... ot he is just one sick kid... we certainly cant know from the limited info presented.

The part that worries me most is he had to go to some effort to do this, it was not a random burst of anger or crazy behaviour. Not like stomping some ants you just walk by spontaneously at all! Animals in a zoo are clearly held distinctly from other animals, and regarded as precious.His actions seemed very deliberate.

He had many points in his rampage that he could have realized the harm in his behaviour, and stopped. He did not. That is a it alarming, and my first feeling is yeah, towards psycopath in the making... But I would like to know how he felt after. ?? Many animals means he would have had a chance to hear their crys, see their blood, made some kind of connection to them and their suffering. It does not appear that he did. That is disturbing.

I really feel for the kid, one way or the other he is in a hard unhappy place and will have to deal with what he has done and why. Tragic all round.


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Originally Posted By: StoutSo why is there such outrage over this when "other" animals are slaughtered on a daily basis ? I figure these zoo animals are in the same league as pets and the thought of slaughtering these animals who we view as bring brought in from the cold, so to speak, is akin to randomly slaughtering those pets.

So you are saying its emotional" outrage, and people are outraged because the slaughter of animals is a little closer to home, than say buying a hamburger from McDonalds. Thats a bit hypocritical isnt it?

Originally Posted By: StoutI don't know anything about this kid, but were I to try and make excuses for him, I'd suggest that he was raised in an environment where domestic animals are treated the same as food animals and question whether this was a one off event or whether this child has a history of cruelty to animals.

Good point Stout.

But, Im not sure of your definition of a food animal? Do you mean a wild animal? And whats the difference between killing a food animal and a domestic animal? Given that, unless the food animal is wild, it to has been domesticated.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hi Stone..

Yes, the outrage is emotional, and yes it is a little closer to home than the slaughter of what we think of as food animals. By food animals, I mean animals raised specifically for the purpose of slaughter ( for food, not cosmetic purposes, like fur )

IMO these zoo animals have a "special" place in our hearts, like pets as I said above and it's the violation of the the trusting relationship we feel we've developed with these zoo animals that's the reason behind all the outrage.

If you want to apply a vegetarian perspective...I'll go with hypocritical however I don't think it's just vegetarians who are outraged here.

Maybe if we apply the term "farmed" to food animals, rather than domesticated it might help clear up the confusion so we can have a clear working definition between slaughter animals and pets.

I'm unsure where just to put wild animals in this dichotomy, and I feel that it's more of an individual decision based on the emotional appeal each wild animal holds for the onlooker. It's conceivable that two people could view the same wild deer as either a winters supply of food, or a majestic creature who deserves to live it's life unmolested as nature intended.

Well, relatively unmolested, as there's natural predators out there looking to go all red in tooth and claw as nature intended.

IMO a zoo animal is thought of as protected from all that red in tooth in claw stuff, as well as protected from parasites and disease with the bonus of human affection when those zoo animals are actually encountered by people who don't have the opportunity to meet them in the wild.


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willworkforfoodjnr
SILVER Member since Aug 2007

willworkforfoodjnr

Hunting robot foxes
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Total posts: 1046
Posted:Thats the thing isn't it - while I don't agree with the captive farming of animals for meat, I can see a clear line between slaughtering an animal we have raised for food, and an animal we have taken from the wild.

In the second case we have a deal with that animal - it has lost its freedom, but with that the responsibility for its health and well-being falls with us, and an act like that committed by this boy destroys that trust.

Personally I find both forms of killing abhorrent, and it really worries me how a child could come to be at that age with no concept of the value of a life.


Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:The reaction reminds me more of meat-eaters who happily eat cows and chickens but then make jokes about "the Chinese eating dogs" or "the French eating horses" and point out how disgusting it is...

I'd be more worried about the boy apparently having a calm face when killing the animals and feeding them to the croc. Of course I don't know if it's true or not, but emotional detachment from killing animals is worrying at that age.

Though who knows, maybe he really just did set out with the one idea of wanting to feed a crocodile on his mind. In which case he made a mistake and I hope someone will teach him that.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Fire_Moose
SILVER Member since May 2007

Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Total posts: 3597
Posted:"A couple of weeks ago we had an incident where some guy shot a child's per Jack Russell terrier, no provocation, just hauled off and blasted it with a shotgun. According to media reports there's Facebook groups set up over this guy, and I've personally seen the rants section of craigslist dominated by all the vengeful things people wanted to do to this guy."
- Stout


First of all, killing a Jack Russell Terrier is completly understandable.


Secondly..is this zoo tape on youtube yet?


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Stout, thanks for the clarification.

Funnily enough, I dont have a lot of time for zoos, zoo keepers and keeping animals in captivity. I dont think there is a clear distinction between slaughter animals and pets. Mainly because pets in one country, lets say horses, dogs, rabbits and guinea pigs are food in another country. As far as wild animals go, I think all wild indigenous animals should be protected.


Im not sure that there are too many people that, of necessity, see deer as a winters supply of food, more likely a winter trophy. Im assuming you mean sport shooters when you talk about the natural predators out there looking to go all red in tooth and claw as nature intended.


Perhaps, in the end we can blame television by saying he watched too many Steve Irwin docos wink Crikey!


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hi Stone

I can appreciate how you don't see a difference between pets and food animals the thing is,,,most people can and do and I figure this distinction is the basis for all the outrage.

I'm aware that this fat feline hairball sitting in my lap as I type this is a tasty meal for someone in another country, but speaking from a "western" perspective... I have a hard time relaying to the idea. Cat is however, well aware that if I ever find myself in a survival situation where he's the only source of food...he's dinner, but he's also aware, that should there be a worldwide meat blackout, I'm going vegetarian and will gladly share my broccoli with him.

I don't know anyone who hunts for the trophy, but I do know a few who hunt for meat. Hang on..lemme check the yellow pages for taxidermists......yep, one only n a city of 350k ( same as one only gun store ).

I spent a winter, once, in a small northern mining community and everybody hunted. It was all about the meat and there was a big fuss about one particular guide who was escorting rich tourists on trophy hunts using helicopters. Public sentiment had it that this guide was in it for all the wrong reasons.

Aside...I know a woman whose mother had both her pet dogs stuffed after they passed on. Apparently her cleaning lady didn't notice and only after months of cleaning around these things did she finally make a comment about how quiet they were.

I was actually meaning natural predators when I made the red in tooth and claw comment. Locally, those would be cougars and bears.

Uh Oh...Steve Irwin...now I'm going to be talking like him for the rest of the day. For sanity's sake, I'd better not take Stout jr. to the petting zoo laugh3


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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Can I ask the anyone who has children in the age group of this child whether your kids would pound something to death with a rock? Kids are more than capable of making informed descisions at that age.

There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Can people please stop dancing on the moral high ground about vegetarianism?

I'm sure there are plenty of threads for it already.

Back to the topic:

I agree that this is a future little serial killer. The kid's blank expression makes me think that even more so.

Thought the croc was hungry and so fed it? What do crocs in zoos normally eat? Slabs of meat? That wouldn't look like a recently-bashed lizard, so if it's mimicking adult behaviour - why was it done differently? Plus, as someone previously said, it doesn't explain the beating in lizards' heads.

He probably did grow up in a terrible home environment (which makes me think that prosecuting the parents won't do a thing) and it would be interesting how many serial killers have similarly bad home environments.

I do agree to rehabilitate the kid - but how? Foster homes don't exactly have a reputation of a 5-star hotel.


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:eek

Originally Posted By: eeraKids are more than capable of making informed descisions at that age.

Originally Posted By: RougieI agree that this is a future little serial killer. The kid's blank expression makes me think that even more so.

Not sure, guys - as in the "school shooters" thread - we're dealing with a great exception here. IMHO the kid needs counseling, urgently so. Apparently he's not been able to make an informed decision - which would not automatically imply that he becomes a serial killer (just as attending sports doesn't).

Life's not a single lane one way road... at least not to my perception... I haven't seen the vid and a blank expression in his face would rather be preferable to laughing and giggling while committing the act. Maybe he grows up to one day be the one preparing food animals? (i.e. to be a butcher)

(Now if some claim that a butcher indeed is equal to a serial killer - gimme a break please...)

Kids can usually make distinct decisions at age 7 - but still very limited and only up to a certain extent - which is one of the reasons of (increasing) youth violence. There are myriads of possible reasons why he did what he did - even though I don't want to be a spoiler: all we do here is random speculation... most likely we will never know the backgrounds, which is what I oppose at the sensationalist press coverage (most likely the footage will never be seen on YouTube as to protect the child's identity, however).

I'm with Stout's definition of food and pet animals to the average urbanist. For a farming kid it's far from outrage that the pet is bred, raised and then slaughtered (sometimes treated under immense inhuman conditions, without even a trace of compassion).

Here we have two colliding stereotypes: that of pet animals, under the protection of a zoo (where live animals are fed to predators after the audience has left the premises) and that of a 7yr old child - who is supposed to play the sweet one, not to pair up with zoo keepers, farmers, animal transport truck drivers, butchers, soldiers, surgeons, cops and what not else... all who have to deal with suffering on a big scale and who have to professionally detach from what they are dealing with.

That kid is either far behind emotional development - or way ahead... or he's suffering from an emotional disorder, maybe abused, maybe witness to animal farming and slaughter day-to-day.

What do I know?

If you want to render your experience of adults administering death to animals, go to the cities slaughterhouse and to the section where they kill the cows - try to approach the guys working there and then invite them to a beer in the pub on weekend or visit them in their homes - maybe you get the idea of how the human mind is able to switch off the "compassion" department when necessary... and to switch it back on when the job is finished, to become a family member again.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Wild Child
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

Wild Child

Star Trekker
Location: Cheshire

Total posts: 1733
Posted:Amen to that Tom.

Reading all the posts i kept thinking about the boys who abducted and killed Jamie Bulger age 2. They were older than 7 - 11 and 12 i think - but still a dispassionate review of their home-life in the Guardian revealed an environment of bullying and a strict pecking order - Dad bullies eldest, bullies next down etc etc. The boys were youngest or next to youngest. Whilst that in itself wouldn't cause them to kill, it certainly would have anesthetised them to the suffering of others (people and/or animals) as they had had to devlop such coping mechanisms to survive their family life.

He definitely needs counselling, help and watching - and loving. But it's all too easy to get incensed and shout 'Something should be done' especially in the press.

My heart goes out to him to be honest - how does he get over this?


'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Rouge, the high moral ground is all yours. Tribal council has voted and they want blood. Though, I dont know how you can decide that someone is a future little serial killer bases on a kids blank expression after looking at a few seconds of crappy CCTV footage.


Originally Posted By: Fire TomI'm with Stout's definition of food and pet animals to the average urbanist. For a farming kid it's far from outrage that the pet is bred, raised and then slaughtered (sometimes treated under immense inhuman conditions, without even a trace of compassion).

Perhaps the kid was Aboriginal, given that this is outback Australia we are talking about, and not down town suburbia.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction

Total posts: 13215
Posted:The future little serial killer is more to do with bashing animals' heads in an then feeding it to a croc. And I'm not the only person to have said it.

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:Originally Posted By: FireTom
Here we have two colliding stereotypes: that of pet animals, under the protection of a zoo (where live animals are fed to predators after the audience has left the premises) and that of a 7yr old child - who is supposed to play the sweet one, not to pair up with zoo keepers[/quote

Sorry, but I take offence at that- I've worked in quite a few zoos- most of the staff tend to be veggie, very fond of animals, work a lot for not very much in order to do so, and generally speaking have a lot of compassion for the animals they work with. In the UK at least, feeding live vertebrates to any animal is illegal (I believe it is possible to get a 'special permission' short term license for animals that completely refuse to feed otherwise, but I've never known anyone who had one- and OK, you can feed live insects to things. Got us bang to rights on that one.) I deeply resent being grouped in with slaughterhouse workers. The average zoo, in the western world, takes a lot more care of its animals that the vast majority of pet owners, and no, we don't get detatched from the animals.

Oh and Stone [quote=stone As far as wild animals go, I think all wild indigenous animals should be protected. are you including rats and mosquitos in that?
Yeah, in a perfect world, there would be no need to keep animals in captivity, but most pets would not survive in the wild, and I personally believe a species is more important that an individual's right to a doubtful 'freedom', with all the disease, parasites, hunting by predators and, depressingly often, humans, which entails. I know from experience that most zoo animals that break out of their enclosures will, unless there was a bullying issue or they were very new, as soon as they've calmed down, try and break back in again. I don't think most animals that are cared for well suffer from a life in captivity. Animals don't go for idealism.

Animals that are not cared for well are, obviously, a different story.. but I'll stop before I go too far off topic.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Originally Posted By: hamamelisOh and Stone, Originally Posted By: stoneAs far as wild animals go, I think all wild indigenous animals should be protected.

Originally Posted By: hamamelisare you including rats and mosquitos in that?

Its a very simple statement. I think all wild indigenous animals should be protected. Whats wrong with wanting to protect native species?

As far as the rest of the question goes. Mosquitoes are insects, and Im not getting drawn into the vermin debate again.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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railspinner


railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada

Total posts: 99
Posted:it sounds like this kid is disturbed, and it is a sign he could grow up into a very dangerous or troublesome individual without counseling.

I know a girl who growing up lived next door to a kid who was known for torturing and killing pets from the neighbourhood. it went on mostly unchecked and when the kid was 12-13 (memory doesn't serve me to well) he broke the switch box at a rail passing and put the switch in a halfway position causeing a VIA rail passenger train to derail. Thankfully no one was killed which is extreamly lucky. there was a lot of demand for the kid to be tried as an adult (he tried to murder hundreds of people) but he ended up getting a bit of time in a juvy center and some probation and seek counseling. now he is older, and still getting into trouble with the law for torturing animals. I fear he is a time bomb.

I think children who do things like this need careful counselling when these types of behaviours start, before it leads to something greater.

Sure a lot of people do horrible things to animals when they are younger and they don't all grow up to be psychos, but many of them do. 7 years is a bit old to chalk this behaviour up to him being younger then the age of reason. Unless he has some developmental issues, he is old enough to know better in my opinnion.


The less people know the more they believe

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: hamamelisOriginally Posted By: FireTom
Here we have two colliding stereotypes: that of pet animals, under the protection of a zoo (where live animals are fed to predators after the audience has left the premises) and that of a 7yr old child - who is supposed to play the sweet one, not to pair up with zoo keepers

Sorry, but I take offence at that- I've worked in quite a few zoos- most of the staff tend to be veggie, very fond of animals, work a lot for not very much in order to do so, and generally speaking have a lot of compassion for the animals they work with.

Ouch - now that's been the least of my intentions redface Interesting that most of them keepers are veggie... noted.

How is that with Zoo's outside Europe (as the incident took place in Australia)... Regarding the attitude of visitors towards the feding of life vertebrates to predators, I found an interesting article, which I would like to share:

Originally Posted By: IERM, University of Edinburgh, Animal Department and Edinburgh Zoo Two hundred UK zoo visitors were asked about their attitudes regarding the feeding of live prey to zoo animals. All visitors agreed with live insects being fed to lizards, providing it was done off-exhibit, and only 4% objected if done on-exhibit. Seventy-two percent of visitors agreed with live fish being fed to penguins on-exhibit and 84.5% agreed to feeding live fish off-exhibit. However, only 32% agreed to a live rabbit being fed to a cheetah on exhibit, whereas 62.5% agreed to this if done off-exhibit. In general we found female interviewees more likely to object to the feeding of live vertebrate prey. Comments volunteered by interviewees suggested that they agreed with feeding live vertebrate prey because it is natural. If they objected, it was because it would upset them or their children

What makes an insect so much different to other animals? Are they animals 2nd class? On a sidenote: personally I consider myself a "flexivore"... I gain the impression of double standards when it comes to this topic. On another sidenote: I stopped killing mosquitos, as long as they are in small numbers and not inside my room. The reason why I am still (regretfully) killing mossies is the possibility of getting infected with Dengue or Malaria and the fact that they tend to sting a few times in a row, instead of taking one solid slurp of my juice - wich subsequently causes un-necessary suffering on my side.

Originally Posted By: Hamamelis I deeply resent being grouped in with slaughterhouse workers. The average zoo, in the western world, takes a lot more care of its animals that the vast majority of pet owners, and no, we don't get detatched from the animals.

Okay, again: no offence meant and deeply regretted hug

When looking at Zoos I understand that we need to make a distinction. Yet I would assume that those outside the western world do have different standards - please note "assume"...

How do zoo keepers live with the knowledge of keeping animals far away from their natural habitat? I mean look at Cheetas, Lions, Leopards - how do you justify to yourself to keep them in captivity? That always has puzzled me (same with Circus'). Maybe you can get me the right idea?

Originally Posted By: HamamelisYeah, in a perfect world, there would be no need to keep animals in captivity, but most pets would not survive in the wild, and I personally believe a species is more important that an individual's right to a doubtful 'freedom', with all the disease, parasites, hunting by predators and, depressingly often, humans, which entails. I know from experience that most zoo animals that break out of their enclosures will, unless there was a bullying issue or they were very new, as soon as they've calmed down, try and break back in again. I don't think most animals that are cared for well suffer from a life in captivity. Animals don't go for idealism.

Ouch, now that is something I strongly object. They did great outside an animal park, just before humans came and "shelterd" them. I understand the protection of endangered species - but why do we need zoos for that, rather than protecting them in their habitat?

Originally Posted By: Hamamelis Animals that are not cared for well are, obviously, a different story.. but I'll stop before I go too far off topic.

This I don't doubt for (in western zoos), whereas there have been reports of animals that suffered a lot from being kept in cages or aquariums...

Now I need to stop or this gets far too long. As to close this post: Really no offence meant, only worded not sensitive enough I guess wink hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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