• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 123
Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:I'm terribly sorry - I don't speak economy.

Words like Dow Jones sound like someone's name, a run on the bank is something that happens in Mary Poppins and shares sound like something you tell a kindergarten child to do...ok, so I do actually understand what shares are, but that's about my limit.

But I realise that it's probably very important for me to know considering people have been throwing around words like great depression.

Could someone help me out please?


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete Topic

Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:i realised just then i actually have lost out over the rubbish going on in the stock market. my superannuation lost like $50. that said i couldnt live for a month off what i have in it anyway, i'm just hoping the world lasts long enough for me to cash it out when im 65 and its ginormous grin

of course this made me start to think. maybe theres something wrong with australia. we are encouraged to put money into superannuation so as when we retire we are self sufficient, but should the method of gaining that money rely on the super provider purchasing shares on the stock market? is anyone aware of super providers in australia that avoid this method to make money?


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:A well informed post, Pele

Not much to add, but putting the emphasis on: ppl have been SOO naive, fell prey to a deregulated market and (ethically) criminal brokers (least to say) - whilst others (namely CEO's) are just holding still, waiting for that package to arrive - which will secure their payment first (a contract is a contract).

If NOW is not the right time to think, act (and vote) for change, then I don't know which is...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

MRC
SILVER Member since Jun 2008

MRC

Funky Blessings Daily
Location: , USA

Total posts: 215
Posted:THE BAILOUT IS POISON AND I AM ECSTATIC IT DID NOT PASS

This is important censored.

I didn't read ALL of what pele posted so this may result in some repetition but I'll give you my take.

Financial institutions were basically playing with credit like it was going out of style. Passing around money, huge management pay checks, and the loans.

These aren't like normal bank loans. The explicit difference is that banks are HIGHLY REGULATED. They have a LOT of rules on lending practices, these investment banks don't. That's basically how they got away with bad loans.

So it's a combination of things really, consumer spending and money loss (Apparently an equally large number of home foreclosures are the result of medical bills) and the financial institutions rampant credit.

There is ONE reason that the bailout is being pushed for.
These institutions are not FDIC insured, and the insurance of that is only 100,000 dollars. That would be a small fraction of these people's money, so they are lobbying hard now to get bailed on any bad transaction they can think of, free easy money, and a way out.

This has very little effect on you or me. It has a (Strangely legitimate) trickle down effect, in where these big corps will eventually see decreased functionality and business may begin to suffer, but for the most part, that should be fine. The REAL people who have stakes in this are the corporate management.

The reasons the bailout is bad are numerous. The constitutional implication alone, not only for the treasury itself, but the fact that it could be given a blank check with no oversight or appeal system. That means they can spend what they want, how they want, and we couldn't do a thing about it.
The number 700 bil. was pulled out of thin air, as has been admitted. NO one knows what is required or how to fix the problem, some admit to not even knowing how to pin down exactly what the problem is.
What's more it would have RUINED the dollar. Not immediately, but it would have ruined us as a nation. Our per-person debt would be...immense. It would require them imply printing more money, the new money would lose value right away so the big corporate management dudes would be able to cash it in elsewhere, maybe a foreign country in a stronger currency.

Then our money looses value. Prices would all skyrocket, and we'd be in tough censored for a LONG time. It could be comparable to pre-Nazi Germany, burning money because it was worth more as fuel.

Without the bailout our economy will inflate, things could suck for as long as a decade, but we could rest assured that at least our economy would still function, at least we would have a chance.
A (somewhat)free market will eventually fix itself.

This is the cycle, this is what will happen, and probably happen every few decades, things will go well until spending goes crazy, then we cash out and rest (by force) for a while.

Things will suck and get worse, but if the government can avoid spending MORE money, at least we know it can get better.


Delete

Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Austral...

Total posts: 1107
Posted:MM, your Super provider will have a information segment somewhere on its website or in its gumph that it sends you showing the breakdown of its investments. Your fund gives you the option of risk versus return for various investment stategies which you have the right to decide. If you didn't tell them where to put your money it would have defaulted to a "balanced" option which is medium risk, medium returns and spread over domestic shares, international shares, property and cash. You can put your money in a "safe" option which is normally cash only, but you'll make absolutely bugger all money long term, or you can go for a "high growth" option which is normally shares only, high risk but high return.

If you're young and have 30 years work infront of you, you can go for high risk and take the long-term view that you'll get much higher return overall. As you approach retirement you need to get more conservative and move your super into a cash-based option to reduce the risk of there being a downturn, which is what many older Australians haven't done.

Whatever you do, don't start swapping around now. You've only got a loss on paper, playing with it will make it a real loss (incidentally, look really carefully at your statement; has your super actually gone down or is the return this year less than the amount that's been put in for the last few months. If it's the former you've got a pretty crap find manager and should change once things perk up, if it's the latter don't worry about it, everyone's in the same boat).

Ultmiately, the point of Super is that it's a long-term tax-free savings account. Short term losses are of little significance over the term of your investment. Long term, it's going to be beneficial for your balance as your fund manager is snapping up high quality shares for bargain basement prices.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Just thought I'd chip in at this point that the bill seem to have finally passed...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:FireTom, I don't see it on CNN or BBC. Link?

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

natasqi


natasqi

addict
Location: Perth

Total posts: 489
Posted:Another question...

Is the US dollar separate to this crisis? How does the stock market influence the dollar?

I'm interested a) because I never understand these things and b) because I'm going on a trip to Africa and have to convert all my Au$ to US$ and want to know whether it will be going up or down now...


Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Tom, it only began being voted on a half hour ago. It is still in process with no solution finalized.
There's live feeds on it on the news networks here.

For those who are interested, here's an article that outlines how the bailout will *not* fix things instantly. The US is still in for a long economic problem, with or without it.

Slap upside the head this way


Natasqi, sadly the dollar is not seperate from the stocks.
As the stocks go down, so does the value of the dollar.
I don't understand that part fully (just bits, so I don't feel comfy speculating or theorizing), but am speaking with someone tomorrow who's ganna break it down for me. I do know that it has something to do with the fact that as the value of our stocks go down, our international buying power goes down and that goes into determining the value of a dollar.
But yes, they are directly related.
Sorry.

Why do you have to convert it to USD to go to Africa?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Yahoo News

Originally Posted By: APBailout passes Senate, House foes soften

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writers 4 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - After one spectacular failure, the $700 billion financial industry bailout found a second life Wednesday, winning lopsided passage in the Senate and gaining ground in the House, where Republicans opposition softened.

Senators loaded the economic rescue bill with tax breaks and other sweeteners before passing it by a wide margin, 74-25, a month before the presidential and congressional elections.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Yup, that just came up about 10 minutes ago.
They may have to sweeten it a bit before it passes the House, but it depends on how much pressure Senate puts on them.

And still, it's lacking accountability. *sigh*


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls., Engla...

Total posts: 756
Posted:Originally Posted By: Pele
Why do you have to convert it to USD to go to Africa?
Because the $US is generally acceptable in most African countries (even being preferred to the local currency in some places,) whereas even some of the money exchange folks don't like taking $Aussie, because they have little chance of selling it on locally- same in the UK, we've always been told travelling to get $US, rather than take .

Makes you think, really..


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

Delete

MRC
SILVER Member since Jun 2008

MRC

Funky Blessings Daily
Location: , USA

Total posts: 215
Posted:I think the worth of the dollar is abstractly tied to the amount of foreign investment in it. I forget how it works exactly but if our economy does bad our investment is bad and so on.

Also directly tied to the dollar would be that we're printing more money, or simply making up more (it's all basically numbers anyway) but it's value hasn't changes so the dollar continues to lose value.

This bill is a red herring it does nothing to benefit us it will make our national debt worse. Some times you gotta let stuff run its course.


Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Originally Posted By: hamamelis Because the $US is generally acceptable in most African countries (even being preferred to the local currency in some places,) whereas even some of the money exchange folks don't like taking $Aussie, because they have little chance of selling it on locally- same in the UK, we've always been told travelling to get $US, rather than take .

Not so much anymore, though. The Taj Mahal, for example, recently changed its policies. The Dollar is no loger accepted, although the Euro is.

The U.S. has to learn that military might no longer builds empires. With Europe investing more in infrastructure and less in military, their economy is incredibly strong with a lower per-capita GDP. In other words, Europeans enjoy better hours, more vacation time, better benefits, and better public services than Americans because they aren't dumping over 50% of their government budgets into their military.

The thing is that in the last two weeks, the U.S.'s status as a superpower has ended. But the U.S. is acting as if it's blissfully unaware of this. Hopefully, Obama will behave accordingly with a massive cut on military spending, focusing on DEFENSE and not OFFENSE.

But we Americans, unfortunately, have too much pride tied in with waving the Flag around while we wave our weapons around, too.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:If anything, the US (government/senate) really understand one thing: How to create a drama rolleyes

House plans second vote on bailout

Originally Posted By: APWASHINGTON - After a week of tumult on Wall Street and Washington, the House moved toward a final vote Friday on a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, an unprecedented government intervention designed to steady an economy on the brink.

(...)

The Labor Department said initial claims for jobless benefits had increased last week to the highest level since the gloomy days after the 2001 terror attacks. That came on top of Thursday's Commerce Department report that factory orders in August plunged by four percent. And the government reported Friday that employers slashed 159,000 jobs from payrolls in September, the most in five years.

The stock market opened higher on anticipation that the bill would pass, and the financial industry shakeout rolled on unpredictably.

What is it now? I thought the bill finally passed yesterday? umm

muahahaha - somebody's playing evil here...


Non-Https Image Link


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Tom, no one is playing evil at all.

You have to understand our gov't structure.

It went to the House of Representatives originally, who voted it down.
When they voted it down it was up to the Senate to create one that would be agreeble.
Senate had to amend and vote on it twice before it would pass back to the House of Representatives for a final vote, which was made late this afternoon...and they passed it.

Which is really unfortunate because, what wasn't included in your article but is rampant here, is that it went from $700 billion to $850 billion (no joke). The additional $150 billion came from what is called Pork Barrell spending. When Senators lobby for additional funds from the government for stupid censored for their states. I kid you not, this bill about the bailout came with an adendum promising Oregon $2million for wooden arrowheads for children.
What that has to do with the bailout is a mystery *but* it stopped the lobby process on it and got an Oregon Senator to pass the bill.
There are many more additions like this too.

And who is supposed to fork out all this money?
Tax payers.
Ones like me who actually are not stupidly in debt and who pay their taxes, on time even.
There are no words for how angry I am.

Dontcha love our politics?

mad2


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls., Engla...

Total posts: 756
Posted:Originally Posted By: Doc LightningOriginally Posted By: hamamelis Because the $US is generally acceptable in most African countries (even being preferred to the local currency in some places,) whereas even some of the money exchange folks don't like taking $Aussie, because they have little chance of selling it on locally- same in the UK, we've always been told travelling to get $US, rather than take .

Not so much anymore, though. The Taj Mahal, for example, recently changed its policies. The Dollar is no loger accepted, although the Euro is.


Last I checked, the Taj Mahal wasn't in Africa tongue2
Seriously though, it probably is changing there too, but it's going to take a while to convince folks in rural areas who don't have that much access to financial news that Euros area just as valuable- never mind the possibilty of being more valuable- than the currency they've traditionally wanted. I mean, the first time someone comes into your village and tries to give you a bit of paper you don't recognise and tells you it's worth a lot, you're gonna be sceptical (try giving a new style Scottish 20 note to a shopkeeper in a small english village, you get the same effect..)


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

Delete

animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Jimmy Carr made me laugh the other day with some satirical comedy:

Now, I know this economical crisis seems hard to understand, so let me try and explain it for you; Think of the economy as a giant fan... Now imagine that fan...

...Covered in sh!t.

laugh3

I would offer more knowledge on the current financial situation, but it's one of those things that if I ignore it, it goes away. Just like political views, Ex-girlfriends, Huge bills...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:the downfall of a world superpower in our lifetime due to failed economic management.

imagine that.

makes feel like playing a Real time stratergy game laugh3


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Geezus Crikeys...

The Dow just broke 10,000. In the wrong direction. We haven't been all the way down here in a LONG time.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:Ok, so since the US economy is having a trip down toilet lane....can someone please explain how the Aussie dollar *was* worth $US0.96 but is now down to $US0.70 if it's the US with the crap economy?

In personal news, there goes those funky shoes I wanted to buy frown


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Originally Posted By: Mr. LeeMr Lee said the Australian dollar had fallen on the back of cross-yen selling as investors bought the safe-haven currency, Japanese yen.
"There was also a lot of stop-loss selling of the Australian dollar against the US, Aussie/yen, Aussie/kiwi by investors and Japanese players as well," he said.

"It was more on the back of risk aversion."

With more forecasts of a global economic slowdown, this reduces the prices and appeal of commodities, which will hamper the Australian dollar, Mr Lee said.

"There will be less demand for commodities," he said.

"Also, there are some concerns about the global crisis on the Australian economy.

Originally Posted By: businessweekCreditors of Lehman Brothers have asked a judge to allow an investigation into whether JPMorgan Chase & Co. had a role in weakening Lehman as it headed toward bankruptcy.

The committee filed the request in court documents late Thursday.

The creditors committee believes Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. had more than $17 billion in cash and securities held at JPMorgan before its Chapter 11 filing but that JPMorgan froze the assets Sept. 12, three days before Lehman filed for court protection. Its case is the biggest in U.S. history.

"The creditor's committee believes that as a result of JPMC's actions, LBHI suffered an immediate liquidity crisis that could have been averted by any number of events, none of which transpired," lawyers for creditors wrote in court papers.

If you recall, the filing for bankruptcy at Lehmans initiated the entire crisis.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:ok, I'll just take that as "cos it's all intertwined..." redface

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Point being (I understand your confusion, sometimes it full scale Babylon to me either) is that a weaker currency helps the local export, because the local goods get cheaper for foreign customers. Unfortunately you're exporting raw materials and importing refined goods... shrug something about Australia that I always had trouble to get into my head.

However, it would be helping the tourist industry, as travelers will be ready to spend more bucks in your country...

So yes, it's all interconnected...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There, United Kingdom

Total posts: 6140
Posted:I have some questions - can anyone answer them?

What caused the wall street crash of 1929?
How did the world (and US) recover from it?
Can the lessons learnt there be brought forward?


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:The answers to that are available on the net, Pink... just use exactly that phrase.

Meanwhile I get more and more disgusted with short term traders, pushing us deeper and deeper into recession.

In the meantime, the price for oil is down to 82$ a barrel (you may remember that we were talking about high prices for crude oil (up to 120$ I guess) being the reason for economic slowdown... however, did the prices on gas stations adjust? nope.

And we're facing a global panick in regards of stock trading that is very rare... Governments try their best to restore order and pour in a trillion Dollars but people seem to be happier living with a loss, withdrawing more cash from markets.

Originally Posted By: APAt the start of Friday's session, losses for the year totaled a staggering $8.3 trillion, as measured by the Dow Jones Wilshire 5000 Composite Index, which tracks 5,000 U.S.-based companies representing almost all stocks traded in the U.S.

Some are making great profits right now by betting against reality - as usual... I guess we need to rewrite the rules of economic (stock) trade... there is no reason behind what is going on. I'd suggest to suspend trading for a month ANYWHERE. Lay them off.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:and here might be one of them:


Non-Https Image Link


Originally Posted By: ReutersReuters - Warren Buffett has overtaken Bill Gates to become the richest American in the Forbes 400 list, Bloomberg said, citing a recalculated list to be published later this month.

The magazine, in its Oct. 27 issue, recalculates the effect of September's financial news on the wealthiest Americans, those who make up its Forbes 400 list, the agency said.

The Berkshire Hathaway Inc chairman added $8 billion to his net worth in a 33-day period, Aug. 29 to Oct. 1, to reach $58 billion, the agency said, citing the magazine.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:Originally Posted By: Stout
I met with my financial advisor yesterday over this, and he knows I have a chunk of cash just sitting here doing nothing and he's telling me " smart investors buy low, sell high" and now is the time to buy low. Do I believe him, or just go for a high interest savings account instead ?


an article by a very smart venture capitalist on what to look for when investing into stocks


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

Delete

railspinner


railspinner

journeyman
Location: canada

Total posts: 99
Posted:All I know is I hope I am as prepared as I can be if a econimic depression happens. The last depression was a cake walk compared to what could happen if one occured now.

In the last depression many rural farmers and country people barely even were effected because they didn't rely to much on the economic system, they relied on themselves and their community. If you talk to old folks in eastern canada they said when the depression was going on, they never understood what the big hub bub was about, sure they couldn't afford to buy a massy fergunson tractor, or buy parts for their farm equipment, but they still knew how to tend their crops with oxen and draft horses. Today nearly everyone depends on technology and banks.

I know I can sustain myself in the short term living off the land and hunting/fishing if I situate myself in a good part of the country. but how long can I keep that up?

I hope this all gets settled without to much fallout. I don't understand economics well, ive read some posts here that put it into pretty good terms (thanks pele and others for your well informed posts which people like me can understand)

I have a tendancy to expect the worst though, and I don't have a good understanding of economics. Im well adapted to living without much money. but a lot of that is living off the waste of excess. Like I eat for free when im around big citys because I am a master at dumpster diving food. If the *$^& hits the fan, ill be in competition with everyone else who figures out the tricks to living off next to nothing.


The less people know the more they believe

Delete

flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey all! It's Pele posting from a wonderful deck sipping coffee in Sydney on FlashFire's computer, so I have no clue what is going on up to the minute as I did even last week.
But there are a couple questions here I can answer.

Rouge, while I am currently celebrating the exchange rate, understandably I can see why you are not.
This was actually on Aussie television yesterday morning. Evidentally because of how reliant on import/export Aus is, it also means the economy is largely based on oil and stocks of international companies. Stocks fell and oil prices fell which means that the export money coming into Oz dropped which made the value of the dollar drop. It makes sense, if you have no worth backing the dollar anymore, it can't be worth as much.

Pink, the cause in 1929 was literally the exact. same. thing. Now of course differences will be made for era appropriateness but the banks purchased properties which became toxic (and yet, they maintained deregulation which has allowed it to happen again). There was also an increase in impoverished immigration (which prompted alot of policy change in that area). So, overall, the gov't allowed the banks to go unchecked, the banks literally wasted peoples money.
It was fixed by a governmental buy-out of the toxic holdings, exactly like what is happening now.
Obviously they didn't learn from it then or else it wouldn't have happened now.
Can they learn from it and recover?
Whomever gets into office this election had better prove that he learned from it this time and put new pollicies into place and end this deregulation crap. It is absolutely possible, but whether or not it will happen is anybody's guess.

Last time the gov't ended up making money on it by holding the toxic properties until the economy straightened up, then selling them at a tidy profit. I know this is the plan once again. My fear is that if they know they can make a profit from this, despite the fact that the process hurts the country in the long run, why would they want to change it? I don't really think many in politics truly care about the people when the bottom line comes with a big price tag in their favor.
But I'm jaded.

Railspinner, I agree. We are capable of being live off the land sustainable as well. However as we charge headlong into what is promising to be a really turbulent (weather wise) winter I wonder how feesible it will be. We can't afford to move, obviously, and winter survival is ten times harder so how long we could sustain that, I am not sure.
If I stop and look around my neighborhood, or even at my friends, I also wonder how many would be able to do that even for a short time.
Not many I think, and it makes my heart sink.

I have also been thinking about how the term "depression" is a relative thing. We look back at the 1929 Great Depression and use that as our scope because we have no other thing to gauge it against, meanwhile people have such a luxury way of living (seriously, not cooking is truly a luxury).
So, they say this will be worse than the Great Depression, but they don't anticipate soup lines and the homelessness of that era.
Could this perhaps be forcing people to live within their means? To take public transportation instead of owning oversized gas guzzling vehicles they don't need? To cook at home? To not have cable television and the latest game system?
What are we truly faced with losing?
Those of us who did things correctly will keep our homes. We have been talking about coverting two of our extra rooms into "for rent" spaces to our friends. It would serve to help us all really.
So we make a small concession in space and our quality of life doesn't change because we chose not to live above our means.
I seriously don't know because it's such foreign waters.

Here's what I do know.
We had a meeting at work my last day there before my holiday.
I work for Xerox International in a testing department for their new machines coming out. One of our largest clients was Wachovia, the firm that just went under. In one fell swoop we lost millions. Other smaller companies had their financing fall through because of this, we lost millions more (our machines cost $500,000 each, btw). In one week my division lost over a hundred million dollars.
BUT Xerox already has a plan. They are going to "liquidate assets" or retire them, which means they are written off but kept as "junk" to help offset losses. Now, we will take a loss in the 3rd and 4th quarters, and they are planning for it. Come tax eval season, those losses will be balanced against the write offs and liquidations and actually give us a profit in the 1st quarter of next year. Doing this allows us to keep our jobs.
However, they can't keep doing that if we keep losing millions like blood from a gushing wound.
I know, at least, I have my job for the next year.
I am afraid for after that.

I also own two businesses. Body art and Performance art. They are HUGELY dependent on people/companies having extraneous income. My hope is that companies will allocate extra spending to advertising and wooing clients because competition for peoples money will now be insanely fierce and advertising will be ramped up. That is potentially good for me.
Potentially.
My main clients however are everyday people who buy tickets to the shows, tip the shows, pay for the body art. No disposable income means no income for me. The competition for small business grants will increase now. I refuse to take out loans. I fear that after so many years, I am not sure how I will be able to keep my businesses afloat. And this was after this year which was so awesome I was even concidering expansion into next year, and now I can't.
I am *terrified* because these businesses are my babies.

It all makes me wonder how much blood can be squeezed from a stone?

enough of this...back to my (prepaid for) holiday! wink


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Originally Posted By: PinkCan the lessons learnt there be brought forward?

Hi Pink, I dont know a lot about the 1929 crash, but I was under the impression that the Governments of the day did little to easy the pain. Thats why the US government is bailing everyone out this time. They are trying to prevent another depression.

Well that's what I though until read Pele's post. "It was fixed by a governmental buy-out of the toxic holdings, exactly like what is happening now."


cheers




If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

Page: 123

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [economic crisi*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > US Economic Crisis [81 replies]
2. Forums > A career crisis [13 replies]
3. Forums > Oil crisis affecting the arts.... (More like a rant) [8 replies]
4. Forums > Political test [20 replies]
5. Forums > The world is... post-holiday depression? [5 replies]

     Show more..