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16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
Hello spinners.

Iv bin starting to work on a system for poi and it`s to early to fully show it but I find so much interesting stuff thru this system and one of them I really need to share with you guys.

In my eyes this way of movement will blow peoples minds if performed right.
I can`t do it yest but trying to reach the point where people can notice the difference between spinning normal and spinning with speedbumbs (thats what I call it right now).
So what you do when you spin is that you change the speed within a beat (one spin). It will give the effect that the poi is jumping or skipping forward in the motion it has. This shall be done in beat with the music to gve a nice effect. It`s possible to do more then one speedbump within one beat but the more you do the harder it gets.

In my movie below at 1:28 you can se me doing som huggie thingy that ends up above the shoulder if you look at my left hand poi you will see one jump, hardly noticeable but it is there and I will try to do it better.. biggrin

https://youtube.com/watch?v=RTCoX8s96JU

Something to work on? ubbidea

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
Sounds pretty interesting.

Will play with it, but I prefer to keep things smooth, apart from wraps and stalls, so it might just go into the toolbox.

Have you played with slowing it down as well?

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
But thats the thing when you got it will be smooth, whats gonna blow people minds is that instead of keeping the rythm to the music by spin one beat you can spin even slower and keep the ryth within the beats.

Do you mean slowing the speedbumps down? I cant make them any slower at all yet :-/ They are so tricky to get, but someday :P

Can you se what I mean in the vid or is it only my mind biggrin

//Thomas

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
I understand now pretty much what you mean. It's a really subtle effect that leaves a memorable visual on the mind.

Just one thing to throw into the stew, if it's possible to make speed changes within a beat it is also possible to change the relation of spin within a beat so that you can switch from time->split time within a beat or perhaps even from split time->time->split time within one beat. eek

Friggin awesome control if one can pull of this thing in all it's beauty.

astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
I meant that instead of picking up speed in a single beat, you should (theoretically) be able to slow down as well.

So an antispeedbump if you will. I suspect that this will be a lot harder to pull off and there are definite limits on how much you can do so, but my control is nowhere near good enough to try and explore those limits.

Speedbummps may just be there though. Like I said, I will play with them. smile

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


Sambo_FluxGOLD Member
Introverted
833 posts
Location: Norf London, United Kingdom


Posted:
Sounds like polyrhythms, but playing with it inside a single beat, very nice.

And also, just watched your video. Dude... incredible. I'm in awe. Really nice hybrids going on there. You've given me loads of ideas, thanks! Keep it up, big up.

Sambo

My Mind is a Ship
Emotions become the Waves
Soul is the Ocean

If a quizz is quizzical, what is a test?


16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
Yes, that make sense to call it a polyrythm but within a single beat, haven`t thought of that actually, thanks biggrin

Thank you very much for the nice comment about the vid but the hybrids are crap compared to what they should look like, don`t know what was going on that night, couldn`t controll the hybrid movements. Maybe a little to much of some stuff biggrin

//Thomas

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


jaikonewbie
19 posts
Location: caldera


Posted:
yes i would have to agree the vid of thailand is breathtaking you given much fuel for the fire(or something like that).

16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
Thanks man, but I don`t understand what you mean with the fuel though? Do you mean if I payed alot for the fuel when I played with fire?
I a swedish dude and my english is`nt the best, trying as good as can biggrin

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
Hypnotic!

I rematched it several times to see what was going on, and I finally started to see it for real. Just only looking at the poi really helped. Man that's awesome.

You actually do two of those just after 1.28, that thing will take forever to perfect, putting it on "todo" list =)

16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
Yeah I know, it will take a looong time to be able to control it so well so you actually can play a whole session in this kind of movement. And as you say you can more easily see what I mean if you focus on one poi.

Try it, imagine that you gonna do a stall so your hand is moving ahead of the poimomentum, just like islolations and then just flick the wrist so the poi get back in the right timing, such a good feeling to play with this in beat to the music.

Get back to me if you can feel it!!!!

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Isn't it a 2:1 polyrhythm?
Or possibly 1:0.5 to show it's "within one-beat" (though only relative to the one doing the one...)

Or I might've missed it - looks nice though smile

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
I think 1:0.5 makes sense unless it's 1:0.25 or anything else therein.

I think I'm beginning to feel it, I'm not quite sure because it's so damn difficult to visualize, for once perhaps I should let go of my eyes and let go of all my other dancey movement and just try to feel the move... i think that's the only good way to learn this.

Analemmaenthusiast
384 posts
Location: West LA


Posted:
Speedbump the way I understand from your post is a timing jump within one beat, that means accelerating and slowing down again? In your video it is difficult for me to see exactly. Is it a whip kind of flick you are using? Are these speedbumps at 6:30 too?

Imo the simple speedchange of a circle itself is quite an interesting topic ... accelerating/decelerating extension/isolation is already quite nifty to differentiate consciously. There was a time when I would have argued against speedbumps being possible, but now I slowly get the idea that everything is possible :P

And seriously good control in your video, definitely wicked, thx ubbrollsmile
"I apologize for the not very spectacular spinning and the misstakes" . . . no comment :P

Have a beautiful day

To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
You got exactly what I mean and as you are saying it's kinda hard to niticed it but at 1:28, look closely on my left poi how it just jumps to a position above my shoulder.

Have you tried? I want people to practice this way of moving there poi, I wanna see a whole session in this movement :P

And I agree with you if someone told me this a year ago I would just laugh inside and think impossible but you can try smile

Offtopic: With not very spectacular spinning I mean that I was standing on the same spot the whole time and didn't move around at all, but it was lazy spinning as it says smile

P.S cant se the video cos my connection sucks but I come back to you when I had a look of what im doing at 6:30.

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Sooooo...you've accelerated one poi through 270-degrees whilst the other remains at constant speed and does one beat, i.e. the 'bumped poi jumps round, overtakes the lead poi and finished 180-apart again?
umm

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
Well yes, thats what+s happening in the vid but my idea is to controll this so well that you can play along with the beats in the music with both of your poi so it would create the feeling that your poi are jumping to the music. So hard to explain, gotta practice so I can show, my english vokabulary are to weak to explain these kinda of stuff ;D

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
I've changed my mind a bit regarding if it's a polyrhythm because i realized today that you can have speedbumps in any move that is already polyrythmic.

Fraction spinning ? lol.

I'm practicing like mad right now trying to control this. But it's so darn difficult to get a good feel for it.

16.15.8GOLD Member
I cant think therefore Im not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom


Posted:
Ohh man im so jealous now. I havent bin spinning for weeks now. Im stuck in Kuala Lumpur since I lost my passport somewhere and heres isn`t any sweet spots to spin so I got a reallt boring time frown

I agree to what you are saying Peter, but I don`t know where to put this kind of movement cos it isn`t a polytythm cos as your saying you can do it in moves that already are polythmic and it`s not a timing like splittime, quartertime cos you can move like this in all timing, so simply it`s lika isolations, its a kind of movement that you can keep and stilll do everything you know....

Im I wrong?

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
Yeah precisely.

Wow must be a drag. Hope you will be able to go on with your adventure soon man. Having lost your passport is a pretty serious matter.

Good luck!

DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Just because you can do it within a polyrhythm doesn't mean it's not a polyrhythm itself - in the strictest sense of the word. It's possibly "super-imposed" polyrhythm but not quite.



For notation purposes you could use 1.25:0.75 (or whatever), which would differentiate it from 5:3.



But language aside, I don't think it should be bunked in with the polyrhythm moves as it's a very seperate technique in it's own right.



I like "speed-bumping", though you can also surely do the opposite where you slow the poi down for half-a-beat so the other poi overtakes it... Not sure what that'd be called smile



"Speed-shifting" perhaps as it's almost the equivalent of shifting the beat in drumming terms (or just "shifting" for the cool people wink )

Then you can "drop" or "add" a half-beat smile



My brain hurts

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
Me likes shifting =) It has a nice ring to it. Or speed-speed-shifting yes!

Mine to, but I have a natural headache, somewhat fitting for this situation.

astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
 Written by: Durbs


I like "speed-bumping", though you can also surely do the opposite where you slow the poi down for half-a-beat so the other poi overtakes it... Not sure what that'd be called



 Written by: aston


I meant that instead of picking up speed in a single beat, you should (theoretically) be able to slow down as well.

So an antispeedbump if you will. I suspect that this will be a lot harder to pull off(...).



:P I like speedshifts. Antispeedbump was just the first thing that came to mind, because I have been trying to get the antispin weave.

Trying to play with this just makes me realise how bad my control actually is. I am sort of getting it though. Any advice for getting it consistent?

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
Don't know if anyone can get it consistent yet. I'm quite certain I can feel it, but it's so damn hard to actually understand the visual difference.

DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
ditto
Cos you actually end up where you started, though sooner than you should.

Ow.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


nomadicspinnerSILVER Member
stranger
8 posts
Location: Houston, Texas, USA


Posted:
I imagine it looks like when we were kids and watched cartoons and the words to the song were on the screen and that little ball would bounce on the words exactly to the rhythm of the song...I bet that's what it looks like, only in circles instead of a line. rolleyes

Danny_GOLD Member
.
95 posts
Location: Brighton, United Kingdom


Posted:
Durbs is quite right that you end up where you started, though sooner than you should.

I've done something similar to this, as part of a 5 beat weave. A normal 4 beat weave would be asymmetrical, but this makes a symmetrical weave with 4 beats. Easier to put to music, as not much music is written in 5/4.

Putting it into a weave:

To try and ease in the way I'm descibing it:
Take a 3 beat weave. Counting the 'beats' as the poi pass your legs. On your left you have 1:R 2:L 3:R and then on your right 1:L 2:R 3:L (L and R are the left and right poi respectively).

Describing the 5 beat, we have on the left 1:L 2:R 3:L 4:R 5:L and on the right, 1:R 2:L 3:R 4:L 5R.

Describing a 'speedbumped' weave, we have on the left 1:L 2:R 3:R 4:L, and on the right 1:R 2:L 3:L 4:R.

In effect, you miss out the middle beat. On the left, on the second beat, you speed up the R poi so that it overtakes the other until you're back in split time, and continue the weave. Then the next beat will be the R poi passing your legs again, on the left. The mirror of this happens on the right.

So this time, instead of arriving back where you started, but sooner than you should, you end up further through the weave, sooner than you should. I think this means one poi spins through 450-degrees, quickly, while the other spins normal speed through 90-degrees.

I don't often describe poi moves in words, I hope that makes sense.

Here's an example in a video:

#t=2m38s
EDITED_BY: dannydevil (1236628107)
EDIT_REASON: Added video link

astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
It does make sense....

Sodding hard though....

I am having trouble passing them past each other. Also suspect that it looks ugly, but that might just be my weave. :P

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


RyGOLD Member
Gromit's Humble Squire
4,496 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia


Posted:
Hey bro.. been ages. Just popped in to browse a bit and caught this one! You're looking heaps good these days!! Sorry about the lack of constructive criticism. But yep. Keep it up man! hug

MireneyeSILVER Member
enthusiast
276 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
Sometime at Firedrums I actually started to feel these speedbumps a bit better, and during a tech talk session with some legends, Alien Jon and Justin, and some other folks I was just counting the ways to spin poi, and trying to figure out if there was more.



This gem is what I found:



This is very, very hard but possible. REVELATION: You can change the driving style in the fraction of a beat. This will actually leave a dent in your circle, either inward or outward.



My original idea was that if you can make a few dents, say three, you would almost make a cogwheel circle. However I've only been able to make one very subtle dent, but it's definitely something I'm going to practice.



---



Also a question for Thomas. When you speedbump does the poi follow the orbit of a circle? or when it skips ahead does it break the circle a bit by nature? So far my circle gets kind of distorted because of the flick of the wrist...



???
EDITED_BY: Mireneye (1212518976)

astonSILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa


Posted:
That might be what was making my crude attempts at a "pure" four beat ugly. Dunno.

Will play with it some more.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland


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