Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by: PK_
She was shown a glimpse of a chess board with 20+ pieces on it and had to remake that same set up in front of her on her board.. she did it because the pieces were placed in chess patterns, but when she had to try it again with a set up made by a non chess player, the pieces were in no particular order... she couldn't do it and gave up.
So what does that tell us?.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Written by: mcpWritten by: PK_
She was shown a glimpse of a chess board with 20+ pieces on it and had to remake that same set up in front of her on her board.. she did it because the pieces were placed in chess patterns, but when she had to try it again with a set up made by a non chess player, the pieces were in no particular order... she couldn't do it and gave up.
So what does that tell us?.
That you should have read the Scientific America article before posting?
I mean, it's only the third time I've posted both of those links... le sigh.
Written by: PK_
I did read it in fact, considering I'm posting about some thing that is not mentioned in said article but along those same lines makes my post relevant as a response.
So sigh all you like at me mcp.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Written by: Pele
end tangent
end hijack
end insults
back to topic
Written by: Pele
I think that experts are created, designed if you will. Some by choice, some by pressure.
Do you think experts can be created without knowing?
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Written by: Pele
I think that experts are created, designed if you will. Some by choice, some by pressure.
Do you think experts can be created without knowing?
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Written by: Pele
I agree with you Froggy about the term not sitting well.
I think what I was getting at is, would it be possible for someone to just have a passion, an interest in something that they study and work and eventually share with others. But when they share it with others, they have progressed so much that they have become an "expert", according to peers or some such, without even knowing it?
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
Written by: How to be an expert
Seriously. How many people think they've missed their opportunity to be a musician, or an expert golfer, or even a chess grand master because they didn't start when they were young? Or because they simply lacked natural talent? Those people are (mostly) wrong. According to some brain scientists, almost anyone can develop world-class (or at least top expertise) abilities in things for which they aren't physically impaired. Apparently God-given talent, natural "gifts", and genetic predispositions just aren't all they're cracked up to be. Or at least not in the way most of us always imagined. It turns out that rather than being naturally gifted at music or math or chess or whatever, a superior performer most likely has a gift for concentration, dedication, and a simple desire to keep getting better. In theory, again, anyone willing to do what's required to keep getting better WILL get better.
Maybe the "naaturally talented artist" was simply the one who practiced a hell of a lot more. Or rather, a hell of a lot more deliberately.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: MCP
What I find stupid and kinda sickening, is people that stay on HoP long after their passion for spinning has cooled. Then they expect respect just because they learned before everyone else? Any noob poi spinner could get to a so called 'jedi' level in a few months nowadays. So now these 'elder' spinners with crappy skills, just sit on HoP with nothing better to do than get jealous and irate with the people that continued to practise, while they were off doing other things. I mean, it's their choice to decide what they want to do in their life, so they can choose to want to be good at poi and practise it, or they can choose to stay at a lesser level and not practise.
These Jedi had all the advantages you could want, namely, doing it before anybody else was, they could explore entirely undiscovered areas, and pass on the benefits of their learning to little noobs spinners. Mostly was they did thou was get to a certain level and decide they were good enough, and stopped practising, or maybe they decided there was nothing left to learn and never bothered to explore new movements.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Don't hate me because I am different, hate me because I still think I am better then you!
Written by: FireTom
In this regard I have to strongly disagree with some content of the articles, MCP provided:
Written by: How to be an expert
Seriously. How many people think they've missed their opportunity to be a musician, or an expert golfer, or even a chess grand master because they didn't start when they were young? Or because they simply lacked natural talent? Those people are (mostly) wrong. According to some brain scientists, almost anyone can develop world-class (or at least top expertise) abilities in things for which they aren't physically impaired. Apparently God-given talent, natural "gifts", and genetic predispositions just aren't all they're cracked up to be. Or at least not in the way most of us always imagined. It turns out that rather than being naturally gifted at music or math or chess or whatever, a superior performer most likely has a gift for concentration, dedication, and a simple desire to keep getting better. In theory, again, anyone willing to do what's required to keep getting better WILL get better.
Maybe the "naaturally talented artist" was simply the one who practiced a hell of a lot more. Or rather, a hell of a lot more deliberately.
Another "American Dream" scam that I don't buy - apart from being an opinion only (as this, my post is too), quoting or referring to (recounts) 2 experts opinions...
I have come across students who I have been teaching the same thing in the same way and it took one longer than the other - which in some cases and the long run would even turn around on the student: Some had persisted and wanted to figure it out so badly, that they still do spin - whereas others dropped out, because it all came too easy...
Lifes' experiences show that much contradiction that the entire "how to become and stay an expert (AKA nerd)" debate starts bothering me.
Written by: FireTom
Dunno who you're referring to with your rant and where you got your entire attitude from, but tell you that much: my passion for spinning (fire) indeed has cooled over the years for many reasons. One of them being the fumes and burning fossil fuels for leisure.
Written by: FireTom
But if it has not been for some of "us", standing all the attitude of "real jugglers" on the EJC's 8 or so years back, patiently teaching all the noobs for free and at some stage dropping out because we had to face severe criticism of our partners who wanted to start a family and would not believe that "playing with fire" could feed a family (as all those newly trained noobs spun fire for free or drinks only) maybe "spinning" would not be as it is today... ?
Written by: FireTom
Maybe you just get your backside over to NZ and encounter traditional, real tribal poi spinners with your attitude and high performance modern day spinning technique, tell them that they are out-of-date (after you learned proper spelling) face to face??? Same would apply to all aboriginal "knowledge" and their "demand for respect"...
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Written by: mcp
Josh: If I wanted to do something useful and helpful with my life, I would be doing that instead of spinning. I don't believe in committing just a little bit of time or money to a cause from afar, and I think that to really change the world, you have to commit your entire self to it.
Written by: mcp
That's precisely my problem with most spinning today, it's treated as a hobby. It might be a bit stupid to treat spinning as an art, but then, that's me = stupid! It's like expecting a hobbiest painter to become the next leonardo di vinci. Or someone that goes to a aerobics class a week to turn into nureyev. It's just plain not going to happen.
Written by: mcp
If spinners had the same intense practising attitude as jugglers, they might actually be good, shame they're generally hobbyist hippies (in both senses) and don't seem to comprehend the idea of a full year of dedicated practise, never mind ten.
Written by: mcp
So the spinning world stays stuck at this crappy level, crappy fire spin after crappy fire spin, and it seems to ignore any real progress made for at least a couple of years, before it catches on,
Written by: mcp
and then people complain it's tech and not dancy enough. I might as well shoot myself now.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
Written by: Pyrolific
...and I've not really experienced it from the people who I think actually do deserve respect. At least...they were polite enough to hide it!
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by: Pyrolific
I guess I should make it clear that my comments aren't directed at you - they were mainly introspective...however I've certainly experienced a bit of the 'I demand respect' attitude in both aggressive and passive aggressive modes more than a few times...and I've not really experienced it from the people who I think actually do deserve respect. At least...they were polite enough to hide it!
Written by: Pyrolific
but you cant be angry for people just wanting to have a laf doing a roll or two and not wanting to be olympic gymnasts.
Written by: josh
neither do most jugglers. I mean seriously - how many jugglers can run five balls? not many. but if you go to a convention theres 100s. and most people I know who are good jugglers dont think running 5 should take more than 6 months of solid practise...why cant most jugglers do it then? they are hobbyists as well.
Written by: josh
but youre getting more dancy all the time! dont stop now!
I know this is a serious conversation...just trying to lighten the mood.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Written by:
I like to treat spinning with the seriousness of a real art, (well at least stick manipulation) so I take it seriously, and maybe other people will get that idea too and in the end, it'll become a real art.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Nietzsche
Written by: MCP
If you hadn't stopped for three years, maybe spinning wouldn't be like it is today? Maybe if you'd take the path less trod, that it would be easier for people to do the same nowadays, but you didn't, so it's not?
Written by: MCP
So, you don't have my respect, big deal you say? So do I.
Written by: MCP
Why would I bother? I don't care about poi that much.
Written by: MCP
I like to treat spinning with the seriousness of a real art, (well at least stick manipulation) so I take it seriously, and maybe other people will get that idea too and in the end, it'll become a real art. And not just a stupidly easy offshoot of the juggling world.
Written by: MCP
But what I really dislike, is that you seem to just casually flick back and forth from the spinning arts into the real world. Either it's just a fiery gimmick you can use for soulless corporate whoring, or it's an ART. It's something you do because your alive and you want to show yourself and something beautiful to the rest of the world.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: FireTom
So setting all personal animosities aside: You really believe that a mute can be a singer, if only trying hard enough? Or that a 70 year old can go to the regular olympics (as an athlete), if dedicating "enough" time? These are just examples. Why would a dog start learning freediving?
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
If a tree falls in a forest with no one to witness it...do the other trees laugh?
Written by: FireTom
May you be shielded against the erraneous belief that you will become a popstar (just by trying "hard enough"), when you in fact have no voice, no presence on stage and lack the looks. I mean after all: what is this about?
Written by: FireTom
Yes, four year olds DO have "special learning skills": an open, unoccupied mind. It's just easier for them to pick up anything (after all to my experience) than for say a seventy four year old - apart from physical limitations.
Written by: FireTom
how vein do you think I am
Written by: FireTomWritten by: MCP
Why would I bother? I don't care about poi that much.
vs.Written by: MCP
I like to treat spinning with the seriousness of a real art, (well at least stick manipulation) so I take it seriously, and maybe other people will get that idea too and in the end, it'll become a real art. And not just a stupidly easy offshoot of the juggling world.
You have not seen what I have seen, otherwise you would not say what you said. Spinning IS art - maybe not mine, but I know ppl whose spinning I regard to be superart.
Written by: FireTomWritten by: MCP
But what I really dislike, is that you seem to just casually flick back and forth from the spinning arts into the real world. Either it's just a fiery gimmick you can use for soulless corporate whoring, or it's an ART. It's something you do because your alive and you want to show yourself and something beautiful to the rest of the world.
Is what really pi**es me off. Wtf are you trying to say and who tf are you to judge my way of life as long as I am not endangering my fellow citizens health? You're entitled to your opinion, no worries I'm not taking that away from you. But for me, spinning is part of the "real world", not a "fiery gimmick" and definitely not for "soulless corporate whoring". You may be a nice person in real life, but in here I can't notice any of that. (Whereas using "fiery gimmicks for soulless corporate whoring" might be an artform in itself - if this would be on topic, I would ask you to explain yourself, but this way I really can pass).
IMHO "experts" are useless anyways, if they can't explain themself or pass their knowledge onto others. How many important theories needed (posthumous) explanation to get accessed by the general public? Just look at philosophy (students) and how they try to say the simplest things in the most incomprehendable way...
So setting all personal animosities aside: You really believe that a mute can be a singer, if only trying hard enough? Or that a 70 year old can go to the regular olympics (as an athlete), if dedicating "enough" time? These are just examples. Why would a dog start learning freediving?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Written by: mcp
Go on and believe if you want that kids have some great mind set that makes them super learners. I prefer to think that I can learn that fast too, just by being playful and open to new ideas.
"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow
Written by: squidWritten by: mcp
Go on and believe if you want that kids have some great mind set that makes them super learners. I prefer to think that I can learn that fast too, just by being playful and open to new ideas.
technically, infants DO actually have a greater capacity to learn than adults. I learned that in my masters of education classes. Studies have shown that the ability to acquire language, motor skill manipulation, and everything else that a young child does, is simply far greater than at any other point in a person's lifetime.
Their brains are like sponges. Their only goal is to absorb every stimulus around them and learn. Adult brains already have a storehouse of knowledge that does compete with new incoming knowledge. So, while we can learn quite rapidly, it wont be at the same rate that a younger brain will.
That is where concentration is an adult's asset. A child is more easily distracted because they are still processing information from other stimuli at the same time. Adults have the cognitive awareness to be able to block out stimuli that are irrelevant to a specific goal.
Just thought I'd throw that out there. Still staying FAAAR away from the rest of the conversation.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Written by: McP
Hah, This is the internet dude, get over it. I judged you by your avatar and your name, before I even read a word of your posts. This is what people do, because YOU CAN tell something about a book from it's cover.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to