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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > New To Poi? ASK ME ANYTHING!!!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:*edit* Going on the idea that it would be good to have all of the beginner style questions in one very informative place.



If you have any questions about beginner poi moves and you don't know what to do, feel free to ask it here and some of us more experienced folks will give it our best shot!



The only thing that we're gonna ask is that:

1) You do a search first!

Click on the blue "Search" link about 2 inches below the pictures in the top of your screen and follow the directions. You'll see lots of old threads which we have spent LOTS of time answering your old questions in. [Easy Link to the Search page.]



2) Check out the Library!

There's some great videos in the library which also have links to appropriate forum discussions on that topic. The link for the library is just below the "Home of Poi" logo at the top left of your screen. [Secret Passage to the Library.]



3) ASK US!

If you've got a HoP account and have signed in, there should be a box at the bottom where you can type in your post and then hit "continue". Of course, look in the rest of this thread to see if it's been asked as well!



4) Be Patient!

Not just with us. We do have lives off the internet so there might be some down time but your question will get answered. But also be patient with learning poi. If you're not getting a move, try something different and go back to it. Or, just try to do the moves you already know in a more graceful or dancey way.



OK, ASK AWAY! biggrin

EDITED_BY: Pele (1192146559)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Posted:Ah, thats awesome. I didnt anticipate going from a 3 beat weave into a cockscrew but it seemed to work pretty ace.

Dont know how a windmill goes yet, angel wings is still proving a problem though :O hehe

Thanks,
Mike


<Enter Something Witty Here>

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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 263
Posted:Angel wings is one of those moves that I believe has several similar but different definitions.

My version of it would be Behind the head butterfly (1 beat) to giant butterfly ending in behind the back butterfly then reverse and repeat. But that's just me.

I think the key linkage in all the "angel wing" moves is the multiple butterfly transitions. First, you can do angel wings in inward AND outward butterfly. And you can actually do them sorta antispin as well but thats a bit more of a brain fooker to describe in text i believe.

The first way I learned to do angel wings (my version) is:

start in outward butterfly. Right poi clockwise, left poi counter clockwise... or anticlockwise for you brits.

Move to BTH (behind the head) butterfly. do one beat.

On outswing of the beat straighten out your arms and do a lockout all the way down into BTB butterfly. 1 beat.

On outswing again, bring poi in front and do lockout with arms crossed all the way back up into BTH butterfly again (repeat from first step)

All this can be done in inward butterfly you just start from BTB and move to BTH. again with lockouts for the transition.... which is really just 50% of a giant butterfly...

Hope that helps...

For those interested... the antispin version i was referring to is REALLY cool if you can nail it, I can't get it perfect YET (something to do with shoulderblades that don't want to just break in half and let my arms go back far enough...yet)

Anyway, here's the best description I can give:

Start in BTB OUTWARD butterfly (i usually stand still and do btb ttn to get set up for this, but that's me)

When ready you are going to do an INWARD giant butterfly with your arms, but keep the poi spinning outward butterfly (so this makes antispin petals as your arms move up)

Once arms are nearing the top, bend elbows and drop into BTH outward butterfly for a beat or two. Then for the second half..

Do an outward butterfly lockout (1/2 giant butterfly) back into btb outward butterfly.

Essentially you get two sets of antispin petals up to your head, then a giant circle for the reset, then move repeats.

The really tricky part to me is the transition from the btb butterfly into the lockout for the antispin as you have to turn your arm over at some point to continue all the way up, but you don't want the poi to come in front of you. Well you COULD bring the poi in front of your arms on the way up if you wanted to... but thats cheating and I don't wanna do it that way :-P

A variation to this move that I def can not get my body to do yet is the split version of this, so as one arm is going up doing the antispin, the other is coming down in the 1/2 giant butterfly to btb, then you switch. Also you can turn while doing this move when you get to the bottom or top, either in split version or not.

I REALLY want to get a good long exposure picture of this move as the image you get would be antispin petals (for me it'd be 6 petals, 3 on each side, but you can put more in) surrounded by a giant circle.

GOOD LUCK! if any of you get this before me send me a picture! *stares at NYC and taps foot impatiently*


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Azadondo
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Azadondo

journeyman
Location: Los Angeles

Total posts: 59
Posted:This isn't particularly a how to do this move question, but it concerns learning to do moves, so I will ask it. What media player do you need to watch the videos in the library? Everytime I click on one it says I can't play it. I use a MacBook Pro. How do I get them to play? Thanks.

Performing marriages, funerals, baptisisms, last rites and absolving the sins for HoPers for-- not very long actually.

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Faith: Hipreels. Practise making slow, flat circles anywhere you can. when making circles, practise one circle in front of your body, one circle behind. practise with each hand. when you're ready, try doing two circles at once, one on each hand.

a lot of the movement for getting the circle around your back is only in the wrist.bend your wrist and poi will just go behind you, if your planes are good.

The key is slow and flat (good planes). the slower it goes, the more time you have to think about what you're doing, and also it will hurt a lot less if it hits you.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:I can do split time just can't do the regular ones. I'm fine with it for now...

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Posted:Hey guys - i've been playing around with butterfly and all its zillions of variations and I've got a move that involves crossing your arms [so you're spinning on each side of you, arms crossed across your body], then bringing your hands together into a butterfly so the BACKS of the hands are next to each other, not the wrists.

For the onlooker, this looks identical, of course, but it's a pretty sweet move from a technical viewpoint, and i was wondering what it's called? 'reverse' or 'backwards' butterfly are taken!


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squid
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

squid

sanguine
Location: sur

Total posts: 382
Posted:I dont know if its got a specific name, but like you said, there are a zillion variations. Sounds like a fun way to play with it though.

"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow

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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 263
Posted:its really just a butterfly. Hand position doesn't always dictate a move. If anything it'd just be called a hands crossed butterfly. The thing about butterflys is they are the same overall visual no matter how your hands are arranged. You can have one of the other, side by side palms in, back to back, open hands, closed hands etc etc... still just a butterfly. Good job finding a new (to you) entry to butterfly that you like! That's the thing about spinning, finding the transitions and modifications of moves that work for you.

I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Posted:Cheers for the advise imbalence, sure enough i've nailed the angel wings.

Still certain moves are fooling me over and over and its particularly the moves that involve the backward spin. My backward spinning is very weak compared to my forward.

The backward weave is a prime example


<Enter Something Witty Here>

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:Practice practice practice...

the more you put in the more you get out, try focusing on your weak spots, try and see where those weak spots are.

Remember if the poi hit you, then you have one if not two problems.

Timing and positioning... which means you need to watch you hands to see where the problem lies... I came across this a lot at the weekend with people asking me how to do a reverse 5bt weave.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Is their dowel in tube core fire poi? Or is the wick just screwed into the hole drilled in the tubing?

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted: Written by: Rellizate



Is their dowel in tube core fire poi? Or is the wick just screwed into the hole drilled in the tubing?





It would all depend on what manufacturer they were from.



Off of the top of my head I don't know of any manufacturer using dowelling these days, As I have found in the past that with the consistent use of those types of fire poi, the dowel eventually dries out and disintegrates over time, one poi can do so at a different rate than the other there will be weight variation between your poi and can affect your spinning.

Also you would not want bits of burning wood flying about the place, as those hot particles could go in to some ones eyes, cause other kinds of damage to people and property.



Okay, I'd rate the monkey fist type, I like the balance and weight that they give, with the ball chain they swivel real nice too. You should get a longer burn time from them too, but with regards to self wick replacement is a lot harder unless you know how to make monkey fist knots. Attention to tangles with ball chain!, they can tangle and entwine more solidly than other types and if tangled around your arms or any other part of your body, you will need a quick safety person on hand to put them out so as you can untangle them safely and with out any unnecessary injury to yourself.



Core fire poi (the more common type), with the steel wire, are light in weight, depending on what size wick you have, your burn time will vary substancially.

Tangling the poi with the steel wire will release more easily. as for the fixings of the wick, You would have to contact Malcolm, Chris or George in the HoP shop for any queries on that.



The way that I make fire poi heads are different to normal.

I take the core (A stainless steel tube, preferably de-burred, polished or treated for longer lasting life) and drill a hole through one side and out of the other just a little way down from the top of the poi head. Through this I place a threaded bar around 4 or 6 mm in diameter, inside of the core placing 4 nuts, the outer two are to secure the threaded bar in place (the wick doubles the security here later), and the central two nuts secure a heavy duty swivel to attach the chain to.

Affixing the wick here will double up the security in holding the threaded bar in place, and the wick itself being held in place with two bolts and nuts making the fastening more secure and with out any need for dowelling or other attachment, the bolts used here should be 4mm thick to avoid too much weight discrepancy.



All fire poi should be checked appropriately before and after any use to make sure that fixings are secure, and that the wick is in good condition and will not fall apart during use.



*note there are so many bad fire poi products available on the net, built with out any inkling of safety or ease of use to the end user, I know I have purchased such products, I was given some last year, I didn't even dare spin them I took them straight in to the garage and took them apart and rebuilt them safely.. I never got to burn them in as they were stolen along with the rest of my equipment but that's another story.



Please any one wanting to play with fire toys and have any queries, please ask here for any advice we may be able to offer.



Safety is a must for yourself and for others around you and importantly for the environment.

so I shall now present you with some useful links to great sources of information that has been gathered and presented to us over the years.



Fire Safety Video By Pele & Malcolm.



Take the fire safety test?



First Aid for Burns.



MSDS for fuels.



What type of fuels?



Clothing for fire spinning?



Put out fires safely and efficiently.



Other Articles of Interest.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Wow, that was a long answer. Thanks! I have been spinning fire staff, nunchucks and poi for over a year now, but I've never bothered getting any tubecore poi, as they burn time is so bad. I just went stright to cathedrals. However, now I need to make lots of tubecores, and so I was thinking of the design. I have never seen a tubecore with a dowel, but it seems like a much safer design in all.

If you crushed and bent one end of the tube (see homeofpoi tubecores) I don't get how burning wood would fly out the bottom, cause there wouldn't be enough oxygen for it to burn. Or if their is enough oxygen for it to burn, how come it hasn't on my firestaves?



I get what you mean with your fire head, but you actually use bolts to hold it in, not screws?

Do you have a picture of this firehead you were describing?

EDITED_BY: Rellizate (1193306512)


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:I've had dowelling burn out in staves before now too.. depends on how much use they are going to get really. Plus immersing them in fuel is going to make the dowel soak in some fuel.

How can there not be oxygen getting to the dowelling?

I'll see if i have any photos... I dont think i do but i shall look.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Well the oxygen is only on the end, so the thing can't actually burn. Just blacken abit.

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Rellizate...I'd go with PKs design as dowelling inside tubecores isn't really necessary, especially if you're going to crimp and drill the top of the tube.

One thing I will advise AGAINST though, is using dowelling inside a tubecore and simply screwing an eye bolt into the dowelling as a means to attach the chains. I bought a set like this, once, and along with having to constantly check to make sure the eye bolt wasn't backing off ( yes it was glued, but heat= expansion and contraction of metal ) when I blew a move once ( 4 bt TTN ) the impact of the poi hitting together shattered the dowelling sending the poi head flying off.

Good thing they weren't lit at the time.

You say you need to make lots....if you're making these for other people I'd go as idiot proof as possible.


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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Hmm. It seems that dowelling makes them seem more professional...

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Yes..they will definitely look more professional and finished.

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link



Non-Https Image Link


No swivels on those though but they are the only photo's I can find right now.

I think that any poi will look professional as long as they are secure.. not just because they have dowelling in the middle.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Those look good and secure. You could even put a quicklink between the two inner bolts.

Less exposed hot flesh searing metal than the crimped top design too smile


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:Those ones were polished aluminium, were ultra light too, though Alu heats more than Steel so if it does get you.. then you might get a more nasty burn.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:Hmm that is a nice design. How did you secure the wicks on?

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:tape your wick in place, drill and secure them, it's your choice with fixings, screw or nuts and bolts!.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Rellizate
GOLD Member since Feb 2007

Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK

Total posts: 719
Posted:How can you screw without a dowel? Or just screw it into the hole you drilled?

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted:I don't see the point in the extra weight in using dowelling, when you can easily spend an extra few pence in nuts and bolts to make a much lighter and cleaner job.

But yes, you could use dowel to hold the screws in place.. if using the correct size screw slightly larger in diameter than the small pre drilled hole through your wick and tube, the screw will be held in place by the tube, and once your poi have been lit the metal core and screw will become snug together and should not come loose (but not forever), but then you should check all equipment prior to any use that would be your responsibility and not mine as I am in no way accountable for saying this is 100% how you should make poi.

You seem adamant in using dowel, if so use it, it's extra cost in your build but I'd look at that money being used to buy nice nuts and bolts.

Just my opinion.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Posted:hi! okay. so basically, i'm trying to go from forward to backwards weave and i'm having trouble going from backwards to forwards. any suggestions?

smile


if i want to fly,
i'll find a way to fly

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted: Written by: jordanaaaaa


hi! okay. so basically, i'm trying to go from forward to backwards weave and i'm having trouble going from backwards to forwards. any suggestions?

smile



Ok... simple way to look at this is to watch your hands.

Spin the poi forwards... when the right hand comes to cross to the left side (your turning left), your right hand passes over the left yes?.. here is where you turn your body 180 degrees and now your spinning in reverse.. the same works here too, but your hand passes underneath, as your hand crosses, turn 180 degrees with it.


For turning in the opposite direction, you just need to cross when the other hand is crossing and turn to other way.

hug


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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fireflyfaerie


journeyman


Total posts: 73
Posted:helpp!
how can u tell the difference between 3 bt /4 bt nd 5 bt weave??? im confuzzled !


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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic


Total posts: 4991
Posted: Written by: fireflyfaerie


helpp!
how can u tell the difference between 3 bt /4 bt nd 5 bt weave??? im confuzzled !



Ok...

So 2 beats would be a single beat of one poi on your left sside and your right side and the same with the other poi with your arms crossing ifront of you.

3 beats... The poi on it's natural side (right hand, on the right side) makes a single rotation and then 2 rotations on its opposite side and visa versa with the other poi.

If you are un sure of how to do these, then please feel free to ask or do a search. I have explained a few last week just a few posts above this one.

4 beat, would mean that one of the poi would have to do 2 rotations on its natural side as well as the opposite side, this can be done with either hand... I'd recommend practising with both poi here has putting both together you get the 5 beat.

I hope you find that explanation useful, if not feel free to PM me or post again.

It really is recommended to search, as we have recently updated the forums to make things easy to find the information you require as most of these have been discussed a hundred times, but I don't mind helping and trying to explain again.

Good luck.


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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firebeast
BRONZE Member since Nov 2007

firebeast

newbie
Location: in a dark room

Total posts: 9
Posted:I just attempted my first spin with home made glow poi. the testicle shots hurt a bit. I got it on video just to see what it looks like. I watched some of the vids of others and the instructionals a few weeks before. any tips on the easiest way to learn? I keep seeing socks or fuzzy poi, but I dont want to be afraid of getting hit by something heavy when Im spinning the real thing. though as I said I'm new and dont know much about the learning process.

May the Burner Culture live on each day we breathe. Midwest Burners, USA!

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