Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Breaking down moves for this section.

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vain-ego pkvain-ego pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
So.. thinking about this new section..

how amongst ourselves can we break moves down as to what will be specifically more advanced?

And how easy without arguments.. will it be to list what moves are respectively borderline and where will they go?

AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
I couldnt help you on this one I am still a n00b LOL

NYCNYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
[Why do I feel like the above should go into more reasons for a Senior Forum. wink ]



PK, I think it is obvious when the other alternative is "Beginner Moves."



Your point would be valid if there were several levels and there was some gray area between "intermediate" and "advanced."



If it's not one of the BASIC move sets, it's advanced.



Don't go getting all symantical and derailing this now. smile



The other answer is: It doesn't really matter. You'll just get more appropriate help and feedback if you put it in the more appropriate thread.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
Okay what is considered more complicated then, mexican wave or windmill? (I need help on the wave but to stubborn to ask for it and it seems so complicated for me.)

*whispers* I would go into more reasons but I dont like ruffling feathers to much in one day NYC biggrin

NYCNYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
I think this answers your question PK. biggrin

I would say if it's in the HoP Beginner Lessons, it's probably a beginner question.

SO, Anuebunnie, I might suggest directing that question to the beginner forum.

And, even more confusingly, I think I'm the perfect person to answer that question but I don't think this is the place for it. So rather than me derailing this lovely thread into how to break down some beginner moves, let's just wait til I'm up and running in the Beginner Move forum.

This Advanced Moves forum is new and we're still waiting to iron out the kinks.

[ok, fine, i'll throw you a bone but i'll type in all lower case so nobody will hear. work on the mexican wave one hand at a time. make sure the poi is going downward as it passes in front of your nose and then again downward as it passes behind your head. this is true whether you're doing it with your right or your left hand. once you can do it with one hand at a time, pick up two poi and make sure that one is passing by your nose downward as one is passing behind your head downwards. but again, don't try til you can do it with one. and again... shhhhh! don't tell anybody that I told you that in the advanced forum. it's only because i'm not sure what i should be doing in the basic forum that i'm even saying anything. good luck. lemme know if you need more help smile ]

Yeah so get out of here with those basic questions you newb! wink

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
Hi ABunnie,

If you dont know whether a move is advanced or not - your question probly belongs in a beginners forum - which is what NYC said...but somehow managing to answer the question in this forum...

rolleyes

:note to self - we need a sticky on this topic...fast!:

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


NYCNYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Don't roll your eyes. You know I did the right thing. wink

I think we definitely need some direction/instructions ASAP. Stickies, wranglers, whatever. Otherwise this will be a failed experiment from the beginning and that would be sad.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
I agree totally dude, I've made a post on it in the 'seeking advice area' wink

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
Ahhh but see my plan worked. For a n00b that is having difficulty on a simple move (to most people) would be something they may think is advance. Which now brings us to what is considered advanced? How about a sticky of advanced methods and moves so people who are new to poi but not very new would know this isnt the place for it?

Thanks for answering that anyway, I appreciate it. I'm a big kid now biggrin

PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
We're working out the wording for a sticky now.

smile

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


MynciMynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
I think antispin polyrythms would fall into advanced, I was trying them the other day and was having difficulty turning wiith them. (a reverse butterfly with one long arm and 1 antispin) I found I ended up quite often with a hyperloop butterfly at the top of my arc (about 1 o'clock as you look at your hands. rather than beieng able to sweep down behind me as I turned to repeat the opposite side into a normal polyrythym butterfly as I was aiming for (and several times got.)

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


-sandy--sandy-BRONZE Member
old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom


Posted:
I think anthing that involves antispin would be at least intermediate as you sorta need to learn the normal spin version of a move before learning the antispin.
Also (IMO) any inversions, hybrids or polyrythms should be intermediate / advanced.

What about tangles and isolations? i think of them as begginer but are a bit of a grey area since they take a while to get to start with.

"Don't do it naked!"


DarkFyreDarkFyreBRONZE Member
HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
1,965 posts
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand


Posted:
I've got to disagree with you sandy tangles and isolations definatly belong in the intermediate section of the poi trick list due to the fact that they take a while to get to grips with. That and could you do tangles or isolations before you learnt a 5bt or TTN (both higher beginer moves), I doubt it.

Don't take offence coz I agree with everything else that you've said.

That all said and done interediate moves belong belong more with beginer moves than they do with advanced moves mostly because they can be described without the use of highly technical language, which IMO will fill this forum in no time at all and I probably wont understand half of it but I'll try my best anyway smile

May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil


DurbsDurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
"That and could you do tangles or isolations before you learnt a 5bt or TTN (both higher beginer moves), I doubt it."

Moot point as it depends entirely on what order you learn stuff - there are several spinners who learn tangles before isolations and 5bts.

You can teach an airwrap to a non-spinner in about 5 minutes, hyperloops a bit longer.
5bt weaves and TTN's take longer to learn - but I'd still call 5bt and TTN beginner.

"Intermediate" is just asking for trouble as peopel can't decided on Beg/Adv, let alone putting a third option in smile

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


_Poiboy__Poiboy_PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel


Posted:
i think the basic airwraps and hyperloops as pretty simple to learn, so i think they should be in beginners, a lot of the hyperloop/airwrap variations and infinite hyperloops (oli-ing?) belong in advanced.

i think it's the same with isolations- the basic wall plane or buzzsaw plane isolations wouldnt be considered advanced, but isolated weaves, fountains, ttns etc. would belong in advanced.

also i think stalls and pendulums would be the same - the basic ones should be in beginner and the different combinations which require more control should be in advanced.

isolations and tangles are, in my opinion, that point between beginner and advanced.

hybrids i think would go in advanced, as they require good control of isolations, antispins, longarms, and pendulums. (would 1.5s be considered hybrids btw?)

a grey area for me would be flowers, I can teach them to people quickly, but they take a lot of work to actually look like flowers.

-sandy--sandy-BRONZE Member
old hand
716 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom


Posted:
no offence taken dizzypheonix.

I agree that some tangles take a while to get to grips with (bf hyperloops for example) but like durbs says, a basic air wrap can be taught in no time and id classify as easier than 5bt.
Maybe the upper end of begginer but if we arent having intermediate then id say it was more beg than adv.

"Don't do it naked!"


FelixwahFelixwahSILVER Member
journeyman
81 posts
Location: Norhwich/Manchester, United Kingdom


Posted:
i feel that hybrids should be classed as an advanced trick, splitt 2wibbles as well there still the bane of my life after months of trying to nail em.

Atomics i feel take a bit of understanding as i know the theories of them but dont really have a clue as to where to start on the practical side. I feel the same about trinity as well.

Then there is stuff like crossers which i would class as beg/int where as btb crosser is more advanced (same theory, harder position). The same with stalls the basic ones are classed as begginer but i have been working on some really hard vertical/floaty type stalls that i would class as advanced.

Feel free to disagree smile

linden rathenlinden rathenGOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
personally i'd say anything that isn't cutting edge should be in begginner - that being for teaching this more for experimentation but thats just my 2 cents

Or perhaps an age limit? (gasp!) so anything less than two years old? maybe longer if its a general area (ie inversions) that is still being added to

so i would say most hybraid stuff is still reasonably advanced as i dont think too much was being done with it before about 2005

but as i said thats just my two cents

anyway throws for the win tongue

back


squidsquidBRONZE Member
sanguine
382 posts
Location: sur, USA


Posted:
I know Im not exactly a common sight here, but I couldn't help but chime in.

Arent beginning moves the foundations for the advanced moves? Sure.

So.... you could think of basic same direction moves (weaves) and opposite direction moves (butterflies) as the foundations for other moves. I mean, you can't well attempt a hybrid without first having a foundation in weaving and isolation, right?

Plane control starts with a lot of understanding of how you are holding your hands and adjusting your axis. Once you have mastered that concept, you are usually more confident in loosening your grip and delving into throws, wibbles, ect.

Intermediate moves seems such a grey area. Where do you draw the line on dissecting and sectioning? For example, I could start a beginner butterfly, swing one poi between my legs and out. Is that still beginner? What if I swing both poi from the butterfly simultaneously through my legs? Have I advanced? Or does it only qualify once I do a butterfly under the legs, let go and catch the poi with the opposite hands?


One would hope that a solid foundation would consist of understanding the following:
weaves
butterflies
insides in both the same and opposite directions (such as buzzsaws and butterfly inversions)
over the head
one poi under the leg
one poi behind the back
airwraps
turning
same direction compounds (flowers)
and horizontal planes

and with practice we progress.

Advanced?

.....like I would know?

I guess I would consider meltdowns, huggies (crossers), throws, twibbles, waist wraps, atomics, inversion weaving, btb weaving, multiple poi in areas such as between the legs, behind the back, weaving/buttering insides, isolations, weaving/buttered hyperloops, etc as all being advanced, since they are building off the foundations from the first group.


And good grief do I like to ramble. *sheepish* Anyways, don't let me distract you. Talk amongst yourselves. wink juggle

"to a man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." Abraham Maslow


_pOp_BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands


Posted:
I really think that airwraps, hyperloops and isolation shouldn't go in the beginner's moves section.
why? because you should learn to crawl before you start walking.
beginner's moves should be the basics: weaves, butterflies, turns, windmills, reversing all of those, etcetera.
only after that a beginner should start to combine those and maybe learn "how to move" with poi (there's more to poi then just doing tricks, I remember a time when it was called fire-dancing). it's better to learn the other stuff after that, because you basically cannot get into an airwrap, without also going out into something else, like e.g. a weave.

don't forget that when these above mentioned moves were first showing up here, we could already do the weave and such, so that's why they were easier to learn.
you can teach somebody to sing a song in a foreign language, but he/she won't know what it means until after learning the meaning of the seperate words.

meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!


RicheeRicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
Utter manipulation, hard theory

or super combo.



smile,



:R

POI THEO(R)IST


thombreGOLD Member
member
74 posts
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom


Posted:
there is still a bit of grey area here (IMO). I would class hyperloops and isolations as begginer moves, as they arre moves that you can learn in themselves as a single, separate trick. It's when you start to manipulate these 'building block' moves in different ways (isolated weaves, wrap catches etc) that they become 'advanced'

Buy gerbils cos you can't spin with hamsters


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