Forums > Social Discussion > Please Help! Segregation-era Racism in Jena, Louisiana, USA

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JerryD
SILVER Member since Aug 2005

JerryD

member
Location: Maryland, USA

Total posts: 136
Posted:Recently I heard a story on NPR that got me all riled up. I just found out about this online effort to help those being mistreated by the judicial system. The story is below with links for you add your voice to protest of injustice.





http://www.colorofchange.org/jena/?id=2153-237042



Last fall in Jena, the day after two Black high school students sat

beneath the "white tree" on their campus, nooses were hung from the

tree. When the superintendent dismissed the nooses as a "prank," more

Black students sat under the tree in protest. The District Attorney

then came to the school accompanied by the town's police and demanded

that the students end their protest, telling them, "I can be your best

friend or your worst enemy... I can take away your lives with a stroke

of my pen."



A series of white-on-black incidents of violence followed, and the DA

did nothing. But when a white student was beaten up in a schoolyard

fight, the DA responded by charging six black students with attempted

murder and conspiracy to commit murder.



It's a story that reads like one from the Jim Crow era, when judges,

lawyers and all-white juries used the justice system to keep blacks in

"their place." But it's happening today. The families of these young

men are fighting back, but the story has gotten minimal press.

Together, we can make sure their story is told and that the Governor

of Louisiana intervenes and provides justice for the Jena 6. It starts

now. Please join me:



http://www.colorofchange.org/jena/?id=2153-237042



The noose-hanging incident and the DA's visit to the school set the

stage for everything that followed. Racial tension escalated over the

next couple of months, and on November 30, the main academic building of

Jena High School was burned down in an unsolved fire. Later the same

weekend, a black student was beaten up by white students at a party.

The next day, black students at a convenience store were threatened by a

young white man with a shotgun. They wrestled the gun from him and ran

away. While no charges were filed against the white man, the students

were later arrested for the theft of the gun.



That Monday at school, a white student, who had been a vocal supporter

of the students who hung the nooses, taunted the black student who was

beaten up at the off-campus party and allegedly called several black

students "nigger." After lunch, he was knocked down, punched and

kicked by black students. He was taken to the hospital, but was

released and was well enough to go to a social event that evening.



Six Black Jena High students, Robert Bailey (17), Theo Shaw (17),

Carwin Jones (18), Bryant Purvis (17), Mychal Bell (16) and an

unidentified minor, were expelled from school, arrested and charged

with second-degree attempted murder. The first trial ended last

month, and Mychal Bell, who has been in prison since December, was

convicted of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated

battery (both felonies) by an all-white jury in a trial where his

public defender called no witnesses. During his trial, Mychal's

parents were ordered not to speak to the media and the court

prohibited protests from taking place near the courtroom or where the

judge could see them.



Mychal is scheduled to be sentenced on July 31st, and could go to jail

for 22 years. Theo Shaw's trial is next. He will finally make bail

this week.



The Jena Six are lucky to have parents and loved ones who are fighting

tooth and nail to free them. They have been threatened but they are

standing strong. We know that if the families have to go it alone,

their sons will be a long time coming home. But if we act now, we can

make a difference.



Join me in demanding that Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco get

involved to make sure that justice is served for Mychal Bell, and that

DA Reed Walters drop the charges against the 5 boys who have not yet

gone to trial.



http://www.colorofchange.org/jena/?id=2153-237042



Thanks.


I was touched by His Noodly Appendage

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, the whites only tree could be a media myth, but I used to go to school.

Stealth racism, is new term for me. I like it because it highlights a subtle, modern form of racism that pervades American culture where perpetrators can plausibly deny. See Stealth racism abounds, research finds. I think an example would be saying its acceptable to be racist and a bigot, because its not a crime until it goes to court. Or hiding behind the first amendment and calling racism freedom of speech.

I have no idea of how prevalent is this school of thought in the southern USA. However, nothing said so far even remotely makes me want to change my stereotypical view of southern racism.

Lurch, if anything, your comments on free speech and racism only serve to reinforce the stereotype. Just because the police are obliged to protect white supremacists, in some situations, does not mean that the police support white supremacists. Nor does it make it acceptable to the rest of the community


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Reinforces what stereotype? That we're allowed to think whatever we want, even if it goes against the norm or the government?

I'm not saying it's acceptable by any means, I said it's LEGAL. There are many things that I don't agree with that are legal. Racism would be one example, along with flag burning, and numerous other things. Consider it freedom of speech, religion or expression, whatever you want. If you make bigotry a crime, you're just asking for trouble.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Missed a bit.



Lurch, everyone has the right to believe, and express themselves however they want, except when it comes to violation other peoples rights, as in racism, murder, vigilantism etc.



Obviously, racism does not help the community. I dont get the bit on the double standard. If it looks like racism, smells like racism, then it probably is racism.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Lurch,



LEGAL, as in hiding behind the first amendment and calling racism freedom of speech.





oops, I meant suggest you read this article Stealth racism abounds, research finds.

EDITED_BY: Stone (1193455161)


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Stone....Would you consider my posting this CS Monitor story in this thread a form of stealth racism ?

It could be classed as microinvalidation.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, I thought the teachers story was very skilled. I think he genuinely believed what he was saying was true. Though, from the outside, it seems like a lot more was happening in the town. Did you read the article: Stealth racism abounds, research finds?

Perhaps you could fill me in on what microinvalidation means.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Lurch: First I never accused you having committed a crime of any kind. Please don't put anything in my post that is not there. Second (as Jeff already indicated) we only have very limited and unreliable informations about the circumstances, which makes it very hard to really understand what has been going on (btw same applies to the mentioned Buford case). We do not exactly know what has been said and what actions have been taken prior to the(se) incident(s). The informations available are contradictory, so it's much "what we like to believe". No?



Yet it's not hard to understand what a "hate crime" really is and saying "I didn't know" (about the meaning of nooses) does not make it much better, but it affects the aspect of "intent" - I do not condone violence, but - same applies to the violent outbreak.



I saw someone walking around Bangkok with a T-Shirt "Jesus was a c*nt". He got away with it in Buddhist Thailand, but I reckon that in Latin America he would have gotten himself into deep cowspoo. Same applied if I were to wear a Swastika T-Shirt (black, angled Swastika in a white circle, on red backdrop) in either, South East Asia or Jerusalem. It much depends on the context. If I play around with Pandora's box, hey...



Even though (vigilante) violence is not justified, physical harm is part of the "legal rehabilitation system" in many countries, including the US (-> death penalty).



You might have the right to say that "Jews are evil" - but the society has the right to punish you for committing sedition (a hate crime). Same applies if you publicly deny the Holocaust in Germany.



We're allowed to THINK whatever we want - but we're not allowed to express all of it in public. Your right of physical and someone elses right of emotional inviolableness might conflict with each other at some time, whereafter the legal term "in the heat of the moment" becomes viable. If some Iranian was to urinate on the "US declaration of independance" on display in Washington, would the patriot US condemn "physical violence"? umm



Btw what about torture being a viable instrument in the "war against terrorism"... supported and sanctioned by the US government?



BTW I like the term "unskilled" - it applies to both sides of the problem.

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1193459942)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, microaggressions are divided into microassaults (purposeful discrimination or name-calling), microinsults (rudeness and insensitivity), and microinvalidation (exclusion or negation) wink

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Stone, of course i read the article. Where else would I get a word like microinvalidation?

To rephrase my question. Do you believe that my posting this CS monitor article here in this thread serves to, or is an intent to negate the issue of racism in Jena. It may help to revisit the playing devils advocate idea here too.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Stout, Im on the fly. No, I dont think posting the article is an intent to negate the issue of racism. Nor do I think its stealth.

Cheers smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Just thought I'd clear that up Stone...That article on stealth racism reads like it's taken out of the politically correct playbook where pretty much anything that goes against the PC concept of coloured people good, white people bad is grounds for a witch hunt.

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Now now, slow down a bit here guys. You're lumping together non-violent racism with murder. I think the two are very *very* different.

Lets speak hypothetical here since noone knows the true facts behind this case. If the noose was hung with a specific intent to intimidate/harass the black community, than it would be racist, and *might* be considered a hate crime. It was NON-violent however.

If in retaliation for that act, a group of black men targeted and attacked a white man, because he was white. THAT is also racist,and is a violent hate crime. Or do you disagree on that front?

Yes it's true that many people 'hide' behind the first amendment, but who am I, or anyone else to say their opinion is any less valid than mine? Freedom of speech applies to everyone not just the people you agree with.

 Written by:

The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes preferred, since the right is not confined to verbal speech but is understood to protect any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country, although the degree of freedom varies greatly. Industrialized countries also have varying approaches to balance freedom with order. For instance, the United States First Amendment theoretically grants absolute freedom, placing the burden upon the state to demonstrate when (if) a limitation of this freedom is necessary. In almost all liberal democracies, it is generally recognized that restrictions should be the exception and free expression the rule




FireTom: I never thought you were accusing me of a crime confused I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I agree that we don't know all the facts, but it doesn't matter what was *said* between the two groups in the past, insults do not justify physical violence.

Of COURSE we are allowed to express our opinions in public. That is one of the founding principles of this country! If you don't like what I have to say, than don't listen. Society may judge you for your public opinions but that is their right as well, they do NOT have the right to physically attack you for your opinions. We don't have laws like Germany where it is illegal to deny the holocaust, or anywhere else where it is illegal to talk against the government or the crown.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Lurch...I'm totally sorted on the two different types of racist action that we're dealing with here it's just that I have to know where Stone is planning to go with this stealth racism thing.

I know where it can go...I just got back from there..and it's hot, very hot.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, if you have something go for it.

Lurch, I dont think that racism is legal in America, as you suggested earlier. Im sure there are laws to prevent discrimination etc. I think you are taking advantage of being a country that has freedom of speech, to peruse racist sentiments. What ever happened to the principal off equality in America as in the Declaration of Independence? I didnt realise that was only for white folk.

 Written by:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.



And hey, according to your rules you should have no objection to being called a cowboy or any other stereotype, and all that so-called anti-American stuff you and faith objected to in the other thread, is just freedom of speech, right cowboy.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Racism at a federal/governmental level (segregation for example) is illegal, on a private level there is absolutely nothing illegal about it. (please note that I said illegal, not wrong, I think racism is morally and ethically wrong, but that is a personal opinion.)

In other words, I can't refuse to hire you, or fire you based on your race or sex or anything else that would be discriminatory, I'm completely allowed to hate you, or refuse to be your friend though if I so choose.

I have no objections to your right to call me a cowboy or whatever else you want to say, in fact I believe I've even said that a few times. But this is a moderated forum however, not a soapbox on the street corner, there are rules of decorum here. Such things show respect, they are not required by law.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Stone...It just occurred to me that maybe with you living in Australia, this wasn't as big a day to day story featured in the media.

Those are some pretty serious allegations that the CS Monitor are levelling about the accuracy of what we were getting at the time. We' were getting the whites only tree as a symbol of present day segregation, and pretty much everybody I talked to about this expressed the same stereotypical attitude in that we stereotype that segregation as typical....for Louisiana.

Now what ? Do we use that article to revisit our attitudes about people from Louisiana ? Or do we write it off as simply a spin piece ?

I..for one don't think the media does enough follow up on stories they publish. We read something, form an opinion, then move on. We may forget most of the story, but the general impression stays with us. I find it rare, too rare that if I decide, months later after the initial hoopla of a story has died down, to find out.......Well. what happened in the end ?

Then sometimes, even more rarely, we get a piece like the CS Monitor article, that forces us to question those opinions we formed, to question beliefs we developed.

What I'm finding, in both the mainstream and "alternative" medias, is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to tell when their trying to sell me the facts and when their trying to sell me an opinion.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stout, Im still missing your point on the big story featured in the media. Do you mean The Melbourne Cup next week smile Or are you referring to the story about the United Nations, Mar 16 (OneWorld) - Canada, like the United States (and Australia), is facing international scrutiny for its treatment of indigenous people?

The allegations of inaccurate reporting are being made by the schoolteacher, through the CS Monitor. The CS Monitor is a newspaper that seems to value independent articles. I think the teacher was telling the truth, as he saw it. It could be that the teacher was nave, or this is an example of subtle racism. Whatever, his view is not the general view of what happened. To me, its a bit too perfect.

You can look at so many different sources of alternative medias until you get confused or you can keep searching until you find a source that supports your view. I think its up to the media to report the facts, and let the viewers make up their own minds.

Stereotyping comes up a lot. People formed their stereotype of Louisiana because of past events. Now, if the people of Louisiana want to change that stereotype, then they have to do a lot of hard work. Events like the one on segregation only reinforce the stereotype.

Hmmm, I have some issues with Green Peace green terrorism that were never followed up. But, I think the follow pieces are out there. You are more likely to find them on Current Affair programs rather than the on front-page.


Lurch, if you think racism is morally and ethically wrong, then why are you supporting racism with you argument for the first amendment rights of freedom of speech? The amendment doesnt give you the right to be a racist. Anyhow, why would you want to say something like I'm completely allowed to hate you?

Its a good point you make for America. To show some respect for the principles that your country originally stood for. Values that it was was founded on; values that are not necessarily required or supported law. As John F. Kennedy said in his Inaugural Address, Friday, January 20, 1961:

 Written by:

The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve itand the glow from that fire can truly light the world. And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for youask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.



And hey, as far dibba-dobbas, respect and decorum go. Guns are a very unskilled tool.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted: Written by:

And hey, as far dibba-dobbas, respect and decorum go. Guns are a very unskilled tool.



Oh I don't know about that, they say an armed society is a polite society, and there is some truth to it.

As for why I'm standing up for someones right to be a racist, that just seems like a funny question to me. That's the thing about America, we have the right to speak out about anything we believe in. Even if it's against the government itself. No matter how wrong, or idiotic I may view someone's opinions, that doesn't change the fact that they have the right to their views. I'm not going to seek to oppress anyone for their viewpoints, and I would expect the same consideration for mine.

So why am I supporting the right to be a racist? Because I don't want my rights infringed when someone decides that my thoughts are uncouth. Like I said, it's a slippery slope to start to censor someone because you don't like what they are saying.


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:No such thing as reverse racism. Racism is racism.

Does segragation still happen? Yes but it is not necessarily intentional. Milwaukee is one of the most segregated cities in the nation. Certain areas are black, hmong, latino, white but I guess you could look at it like Little Italy or Chinatowns...

In the south, racism is a little different than say up here. My bf lived down there for a few years. There wasn't outright in your face racism, but a quiet racism. There is also supremicist groups in the applachian mtn area. But they don't do so much as to be openly so but stock up and barracade for the impending race wars


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Lurch: I thought you implicated something like that in your post. If that's not the case - everything is clear.

Not quite, as you can find me confused all the way.

Why is an armed society a polite society, when physical violence is intolerable? Either ppl do have guns and are ready to use them or they are just useless - with all consequences.

Now I haven't got the details of the story in mind - had the white guy (that got attacked) any part in those hanging nooses or was he just a strawman in the wrong place and time? I am not promoting violence - but I certainly would have some sort of compassion, IF the assaults would have been happening to "strafe" a member of the gang who put the nooses up - however not to that extend.

But IF in fact he had NOTHING to do with this, then the assaults are completely baseless, ridiculous and racist.

Some unskilled people are less gifted to respond appropriatly to other unskilled ppl who find a lot of fun insulting. What (in you opinion) would be an appropriate penalty for a few students who (un/knowingly) commit a non violent hate crime?

You can say anything in public, but the public will hold you responsible for insults or violating other laws that limit the "freedom of speech". If I don't like what you have to say, I am simply walking off.

But are you telling me that if I were to stand in the middle of Times Square all day, insulting the USAmericans, their government or their constitution, maybe burn a flag and urinate on the image of George Washington - I would be perfectly legal? umm

Or are you telling me that you would receive a severe punishment to all applicable rulse of the law, if you were to respond violently to me standing right in front of you and aggressively insult you personally?


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Stone, I'm talking about the Jena 6 story, I thought that was obvious.

Anyway,,thanks for your answer, that's what I was looking for. Yes, it is a little too perfect

You're happy maintaining the stereotype, OK that's your choice. Personally I'm more interested in seeing whether things have changed in the American south over the past couple of decades and short of actually moving down there, the media is the only source of info I have.

faith...cheers on the reverse racism idea..I feel that's a long outdated term. Interesting comparison with the little Italy's and Chinatowns...do you feel Milwaukee is....I don't want to use the word segregated.....divided along ethnic lines by choice ?

The WS guys are still waiting for race wars...hey at least they have a particular event that they're planning for. Our survivalist types aren't so specific. They think something's going to happen, and it's going to spell the end of society as we know it, but they're unsure just what that end is going to be.

The NWO maybe ??? OOoooo I did just see a advertisement for a credit card with a microchip in it...good thing I still have that backyard bunker full of bottled water, freeze dried food, and machine guns left over from the Y2K scare. wink


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:I think it is partial choice, partial consensus, partial welfare.
People like to live in areas with people like them. Now there are people who don't fit into the regular resident in every area. Old folks, or people who didn't know the area. But part of being comfortable is often living with similar folks.
Sometimes they don't feel welcome or just say that they aren't meant for anything more. I wouldn't feel all that comfy living on the northside (visiting is fine) but I've seen three black people in my area. It's not that we are racist. It's just what we are comfortable with.
Then there is the problem of social assistance be it rental, or child, or medical assistance. Unfortunately, education is not that great here and it's hard for people to overcome. All of it is meant to perpetuate the welfare cycle. (IMO)

Go ahead and say segregation. We do.

Can't be afraid of it. Being silent perpetuates the problem. Just like in some areas, they put a coat of whitewash and pretend drug dealers aren't everywhere and they don't find bodies in the river.

Here are some articles:
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/11/15/editorial4.html
About it being a choice

http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/CED/pdf/fairhousing.pdf
Levine is often seen on the news as an expert

http://www.uwm.edu/MilwaukeeIdea/CC/mca/...20Milwaukee.doc
Little bit more

http://mumford.albany.edu/census/milwaukee.htm
This has a back and forth on the issue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee,_Wisconsin
Just the wiki version of Milwaukee...don't listen to the list of neighborhood description. They are more than optomistic and whitewash the bad things.


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Well no FireTom, it wouldn't be perfectly legal, you would most likely be violating open flame laws and public indecency for urinating in public. As for talking against the government and the constitution, yes, you would be perfectly within your rights to preach whatever you want to, in fact if it was Times Square most people would probably just keep on walking and pay you no mind.

Hell, you could walk around in a KKK robe if you really wanted to. And yes, the public will judge you, and may attack you for what you say, but that is according to their personal philosophies, NOT the states. If they did physically attack you, doing so would be illegal on THEIR part, not yours.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Faith...thanks for that. I used to live in Vancouver and it's about the size of Milwaukee. There's a large ethnic population that's pretty much involved themselves in de facto segregation too.

The neighbourhood I was living was mostly white, predominately gay, uber liberal and super close to where I worked. I found it interesting that when uptight ( white ) liberals would reference a segregated neighbourhood it would always hinge around the attitudes of the big bad white guy.

Curious, I drove out ot a predominantly Chinese neighbourhood and did an ersatz poll of some of the residents as to why they were living "way out here in the 'burbs" and was told that if you apply the principals of Feng Shui to a map of greater Vancouver, that neighbourhood had the best energy.


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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted: Written by: Lurch


...As for talking against the government and the constitution, yes, you would be perfectly within your rights to preach whatever you want to, in fact if it was Times Square most people would probably just keep on walking and pay you no mind.

Hell, you could walk around in a KKK robe if you really wanted to. And yes, the public will judge you, and may attack you for what you say, but that is according to their personal philosophies, NOT the states. If they did physically attack you, doing so would be illegal on THEIR part, not yours.



Just curious here, but what about, say, a muslim extremist standing up in Times Square and preaching about jihad, how all the US infedels should be cleansed from the face of the earth, certain people should be murdered etc, do you have any laws against that kind of 'free speech'? Because in the UK we have laws now against inciting racial hatred and terrorism and Ikind of presumed the US would have the same kind of thing?


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:I think it depends on exactly what they say and what the political climate is, but we have a guy here who drives around saying everyone is going to hell and whatever else cooky bible thumper evangelist crazy man phrases you can come up with. Sometimes, they cite him for being a nuisance or breaking a noise violation

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:It does depend on how they're saying it, we have the right to peacefully assemble which is why the KKK and the Aryan nation and similar racist groups can have parades and such when they want. There is a difference between saying 'You should die in a fire' and 'I'm going to burn you to death.'

That said, there are certain local decency laws, so you can't go around screaming your head off at 3am in a quiet neighborhood, or yelling profanity at the top of your lungs, but as I said before, censorship should be the exception, and free expression the rule. Not the other way around.

You wouldn't believe how many crazy people have their soapboxes here wink What about Speakers' Corner for you Brits? Quite honestly it amazes me that in other countries 'free speech' is limited to 'designated areas'


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Yeah, we do get quite a few nutters at speaker's corners condemning everybody to hell etc. Thanks for the clarification Lurch and Faith. I was just thinking about recently when a few muslims got put in jail over here for 4-6 years for 'inciting racial hatred' and also 'inciting murder' when they were condemning the Dutch cartoonist and newspaper editors who published what they saw as an insulting image of the prophet Mohammed. I don't think they were saying 'we're going to kill them!', but that they should be killed for insulting Islam etc.

Their sentences have recently been reduced to 3 years. I'm really not sure where I sit with any of this - I love the ideals of free speech and freedom of expression, but at the same time I guess I feel there are some things best left unsaid... a double standard I know... but the incident of the cartoon being published and the uproar caused is a perfect example of how complicated it all is... confused


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Not absolutely on topic but.....
The " reverse rascism" we see in our schools is producing rascist children. The kids see two sets of rules. The indigenous kids seem to get away with callling others white c***s but if a non indigenous says black s******d they are shoved into timeout as quick as a flash with the "racism is not tolerated at this school" party line. Consistancy would be a fine thing with noones racism being tolerated and tolerance encouraged.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Happy Halloween.

Boo!!!!!

Now this is truly scary.

But is it even legal ?


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