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simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i've been having some loose and disconnected thoughts about spinning.

it started when i was chatting to meg about strange feelings we can have when we see patterns that confuse us
(buzzword(s): cognitive dissonance)

and it occurred to me that what you do immediately before and after a "move" critically affects how it is seen by the audience.

and um...

ok I just had this PM conversation with meg

 Written by:

From: simian
09/07/07 03:21 PM

context is what its all about now baby
"WOW what was that!?"
"what it was is unimportant. What matters is the context in which it was placed."

"hmm, that didn't look so hot"
"it will do, i just need to find the right context"

The heckle of 2008:
"Do it CONTEXTUALLY!"

Yeah baby. Context. You know you love it.



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 08:37 AM

are you on drugs?

Clearly the best heckle in this new regime will be: Do in a the context of a female tennis player!



 Written by:

From: simian
10/07/07 09:56 AM

i'm high on CONTEXT sweetcheeks

Phi phenomenons and chuu chuus got me thinking about it -

the individual movements are kinda simple and almost trivial, and not enormously effective. But the context in which they're placed, what goes before and after it, is what gives them their greater significance (makes them look cooler)

But temporal context is just one part of it.

enviromental context:-
obvious example: glowtoys in bright sunlight vs. glowtoys in the dark

Now imagine different visual effects from different kinds of spinning against fast moving horizontal\vertical backgrounds (motorway/waterfall)

And Cultural context:
Ironic spinning
Spinning where knowledge of the spinners personality is important
spinning as part of a story

Musical context:
what kind of music you're playing - well duh...

ETCETERA!

so you can play with the contexts in different ways, using them to reinforce an impression \ create a counterpoint or even trigger phi phenomenon.

have i dun gon mad?



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 11:21 AM

you're talking about performance techniques simian, who would have ever thought it?

so yeah, i think you dun gon mad!



 Written by:

From: simian
10/07/07 11:32 AM

hmmm

only in the sense that poi is performance

which isn't even necessarily true, because it depends on the context



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 11:37 AM

if you're spinning and nobody is watching you, in the middle of a forest and a tree falls, does it matter what the context is?

Does context only matter when there is somebody to understand the context, other than you?

If nobody see's you spin, did you even really do it?



so um yeeeeeeeah... what do you think?

it's kind of trivial. But i haven't thought about poi that way before - when thinking in a techie mindset.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


MolochSILVER Member
Shirt-Cocker Extraordinaire
47 posts
Location: Colorado, USA


Posted:
Context. Erm...
In what context am I?
Contextually speaking, I'm sitting in front of a laptop, typing. Not really. Context is context, I'm with Simian on this one. Context makes the world go round, in the contect that without it nothing would exist in relation to anything else. Simian is talking CONTEXT, the connections between everything, ENERGY wink

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
To see what context is:



Think about a poi move the way that we usually do. eg: Out of context.



or look in a goddam dictionary. Sheesh...

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


MolochSILVER Member
Shirt-Cocker Extraordinaire
47 posts
Location: Colorado, USA


Posted:
HAHA, A contextual dictionary?

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
outside context: everything you think doesn't matter about a move
important context: everything you think does matter

I might compile a list of 'illusions' I know (of) and then let simian try and fit them to a context... What you say simian? You killed this thread with your chat about getting drunk. frown hug

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
I like this thread, it makes me giggle embaressingly at work.

Anyway, I like the idea of context with regarsd to spinning.

For example it 's possible to make a 7bt weave look shite, or wicked depending what comes before and/or after it.

Surely is a simple definition of "context" with regards to spinning is just that - "What precedes and follows the event".
Thus a man dressed as a gimp at a kids party would be out of context and an inverted 9bt corkscrew in amongst butterflies and 2-beat weaves would also be out of context.

Possibly.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: durbs

Thus a man dressed as a gimp at a kids party would be out of context and an inverted 9bt corkscrew in amongst butterflies and 2-beat weaves would also be out of context



No. They're both in contexts. They're just strange ones.

a real thing cannot be 'out of context'. Everything is in a context. But you can consider something 'out of context' when you think about it. And thats how we generally think about moves.

 Written by: durbs

Surely is a simple definition of "context" with regards to spinning is just that - "What precedes and follows the event".



Good christ what the hell is wrong with the ACTUAL DEFINITION of context????

What is with this redefining fever?!?!

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
so what do you want to discuss about context?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
About the concept of "context" itself? Nothing really.

Not ruling it out. Someone might raise something interesting about it. shrug



But when i discuss moves in future, consideration of possible contexts will be something i'll be using as a critical tool to think about them. That's something i think is useful and i didn't tend to do much before.



but since that answer isn't very conducive to discussion -



a couple of things i'm particularly interested in regarding the context of my "moves" are:



How to confuse people by putting moves next to each other in a way so they look wierd. What moves look wierd in the context of being next to each other.



and the counterpoint to that - what moves look completely unjarring and natural in the context of each other. How to cause cognitive assonance.



(disclaimer - those both fall under "What precedes and follows the event" but the word context can relate to far more than that)

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Well yes, but as this is in the poi moves thread I don't see that harm in "re-defining" the term to be what it is most conducive to proper conversations wink

Also, when quoting me, please could you correct all my typos or it just rubs the point home.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


oliSILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom


Posted:
ubblol at you lot. this is the strangest thread.



context gives things meaning, thats what it said when i looked it up.

(context (uncountable)



1. the text in which a word or passage appears and which helps ascertain its meaning

2. the surroundings, circumstances, environment, background or settings which determine, specify, or clarify the meaning of an event) now some one tell me what my poi mean? :smack:



what simians talking about with sequences of moves that look phuked up... id call that flow.
EDITED_BY: oli (1184236778)

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no


AcciaioSILVER Member
Tangled into my spins
187 posts
Location: Italy


Posted:
quote oli...

your last proposal simian is a lot far from the highest theory above...



You can see and work on a side of the problem, performance, flow, appeal, feel, enjoing others/myself...



But we are talking about something too much theoretical and abstract without any common basis... a bit

misleading ...



don't you think so?



Acciaio devil

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Context: The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i am submitting that the circumstances in which otherwise identical events occur affect the properties that we percieve them to have.



i don't see that as being misleading. i do think it might be trivial.



yes, we are already aware of these effects, and have names for them.



i don't understand the criticism: "too wide a definition".



i think the response that people should be having to this thread is "so what?" shrug

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,688 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
So "Spinning in a setting" or "Spinning in the cicrumstances in which an event occurs"

I thought some of my posts were wanky wink

What kind of music do you spin poi to?

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i already mentioned choice of music in my first post actually tongue

although thats an aspect of the context in which i do poi that i'm not particularly interested in looking in critically at the moment. Cole said he wasn't either. But some people might be.

What kind of music makes antispin look better?

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


AcciaioSILVER Member
Tangled into my spins
187 posts
Location: Italy


Posted:
ease preconditions give ease results... so "so what?" is a good response in this thread wink

I live
I live in the world
I live in the world and I wont to show something to someone
I live in the world and I wont to show something to someone using poi <-- Here is your context if I have understand something...
I live in the world and I wont to show something confusing to someone using poi
I live in the world and I wont to show something confusing to someone using poi with antispin patterns
I live in the world and I wont to show something confusing to someone using poi with antispin patterns and for having more understandable confusing patterns I mix them with very prevedible patterns

and so on with any detail you like... "and the sun must shine...and I'm on drugs...I wear a shirt...and so on"

"so what?" smile

Acciaio devil

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i live, i live in the world

yes, i agree those aren't very interesting parts of the context of someone's spinning.

why not?

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


AcciaioSILVER Member
Tangled into my spins
187 posts
Location: Italy


Posted:
no matter, they could be smile

Acciaio devil

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
meg wants me to contextualise some stuff i think.

she may be disappointed.

 Written by: mcp



[RE: Part of a list of illusions]

Mysterious Action at a Distance.

invisible string

magnetic behaviour

translations / parallel illusion

hand pushing illusions

newton's pendulum illusions



All of those are examples of moving of two props (where a hand can also count as "prop")

and different imaginary relationships you can make between the two.

Sometimes it would be the relationship of simultaneous movement (translations / parallell illusion) and some require you to look at the pattern over a larger envelope of time for the relationship to emerge (newton's cradle).

In each case, if you consider only one of the props, the effect cannot exist. The overall effect is reached through the movements in the context of each other. Half the effect is not gained by using only one prop.

So, it's an illusion caused by the spatial and temporal relationship of props, and simulating behaviour that we are trained to see in other phenomena. This can cause cognitive dissonance if there is behaviour the viewer particularly does not expect to see from the props, for any number of reasons.



So "ok, they're in this context. So what?"



Well that's hard to say. But thinking about that context being important makes me want to explore the counterpoint. Remove that part of the required context and what is left? What happens if we take what is left, and place it (contextually of course) alongside the version that has that required context?



Of course, you could follow the movements required for one of those illusions with only one hand or the other, removing the context of the other prop, removing the illusion.

You'd be left with movements, that would look... i don't know. Unfinished? Rubbish? a bit pointless?



But then maybe the full illusion performed after that, in the context of having already seen it's constituent parts, could be yet more impressive. A moment of seemingly unrelated movements that you are already aware of, coming together to form something greater.



That's right - i'm talking about placing the uncontextualised in the context of the contextualised wink

or 'foreshadowing'



Disclaimer- thats a fairly basic idea. You could come to it pretty easily without ever using or thinking about the concept of "context". But context is the word i'm using to pick things apart at the moment, and i like it. A critical tool, you see?

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
PERFORMANCE!!!!

wink

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
Possibly...

as opposed to?

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
to be honest, when i start thinking about messing about with the context in which spinning takes place, or in which props move, the first thing that pops into my head is the possibilities for video, as opposed to live performance.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Yeah I think there are a lot of possibilities for video weird ness... but I don't have to patience or time to sit down currently and xplorate em. frown

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i don't either. Using your imagination is quicker and cheaper! smile

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
videos focus my imagination, like cyclops eye blasts are focused by his ruby glasses. biggrin

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
earlier i said "this thread is completely and utterly useless - that monkey talks utter crap sometimes".



but put in context it was just sarcasm so it didn't sound as rude and dismissive as it does now wink



i ubblove this thread.



it taught me that i like spinning paying attention to the contexts of timing and positional variations of body and prop.

sometimes i like to contextualise the transitions between moves but only when i'm feeling particularly jaunty.



there are lots more contexts that have been mentioned here that are important to performance spinning.

seems to me that the other contexts are either totally inconsequential or really, really interesting.



the question is, how do we sieve out the few interesting ones from all the crap ones so we can discuss them...?



cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


Mr_ChutneySILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Herefordshire, England (UK)


Posted:
I am struggling to make sense of all this (though to make sense of it is to miss the point perhaps..)

As I see it, this mostly boils down to exposure (no more shouts of nudity).

Little is exciting if it has been experienced before- for example, the first time I really saw anti-spin being used it messed with my head- then I learnt the principle and it became less impressive, then i saw Yuta's video and thought anti-spin was the most brilliant thing ever (the timing, the flow, the music).

By spinning we implicitly spin in context- to be aware of that allows us to play with how in or against the grain of that situation / temporal position (wanky language.. just talk simple please) we wish to be. As a result we may cause greater suprise, enjoyment/ puzzlement because we are beyond the realm of the known or expected within any given context.

I have no idea if this fits in this thread...

bluecatgeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere


Posted:
hahahahahaha;

you have all made my morning joyous with your wittering as i wait for virgin media to speak to me (24 minutes of hold, and counting)

what an enormous load of extremely useful bollox.

simon, you should have gone to ros body awareness class, and also my alphabet class at uberpoi. but i suspect you were studying something technical, when clearly this is your spiritual home.

Holistic Spinner (I hope)


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
smile

Thanks Mr Chutney... I understand now...

(Mr Chutney... making things simple, for the simple people, since 2003)

Getting to the other side smile


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
hi clare wave



sorry... but what chutters said isn't what we were saying. It's an equally valid point about the context in which a move is done though.



i'll have another little go at explaining what i mean, this time tailored towards you smile



Context: The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.



So a three beat weave - You can think about it technically - theoretically - just as a move on its own - out of context



You can think about putting it into a context - for example being done by a really bad dancer - and i'd find that less impressive than the out of context "idea" of a three beat weave



a three beat weave being done with beautiful dancing - well that would be far more impressive than the out of context "idea" of a three beat weave



the context (in this case: what different types of dancing are being done) in which a thing happens (in this case: the three beat weave) affect our experience and feelings toward that thing



You'll probably find it hard to get your head around, because it's so simple and you already understand it smile



What chutney was talking about, well that's another context - the experience and expectations of the audience.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


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