Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:_http://www.johnsonc itypress. com/Detail. php?Cat=HOMEPAGE &ID=59523_

Sounds to me like ill-educated performers and policemen made for a bad situation.
Kero-explosive?
They didn't know the eaters would be there?

Something ain't right there...one more reason why I very strongly feel that amatuers should go pro by working with a pro.

"By Rex Barber
Press Staff Writer
rbarber@johnsoncitypress.com

There was a definite and strong police presence at this years Blue Plum Festival, and nearly 80 accused offenders found out the hard way, including two fire-eating festival-goers.
According to the Johnson City Police Department, two arrests came Friday night when two Johnson City men used kerosene to spew flames from their mouths, posing a danger by flames that was around the area of performance, according to a police report about the incident.

The men allegedly involved in the fire-eating were Michael Fatolitis and Philip J. Rose, both 19, and both with a city general delivery address.

They were reportedly carrying a gallon container of kerosene, which had the potential of igniting and causing serious damage, said JCPD Maj. Trent Harris.

Fatolitis and Rose were both charged with reckless endangerment and taken to the Washington County Detention Center.

Police said 76 arrests were made in connection with offenses committed at the festival.

A total of 84 charges were levied during the course of the two-day festival.

There were four felony arrests, police said.

Two men were charged with possessing drugs for resale.

Christopher Heaton, 22, 2000 Southside Road, Elizabethton, was charged with one count of possession of a schedule III drug for resale.

Matthew E. McConnell, 23, 1600 E. Watauga Ave., was charged with possession of schedule I, II and VI drugs for resale.

An alleged fugitive from justice was also taken into custody during the festival.

Kevin P. Jones, 28, 1905 Brook Hollow Road, was found to have an outstanding warrant out of Avery County, N.C., for a felony check charge.

All of those men were taken to the WCDC.

Police said most of the charges were a result of misdemeanor offenses ranging from public drunkenness to violations of the special beer permit ordinance to misdemeanor drug charges.

Harris said all the reports will be reviewed and turned over to the proper authorities to make decisions about next years festival.

However, Harris said he did not believe any serious problems occurred.

For the number of people that were present, which is now estimated at 65,000 to 70,000 people, it went fairly well, Harris said.

Five JCPD officers worked the event last year, which was held only on Saturday due to rain on Friday.

This year there were 35 officers patrolling the streets. The additional officers were on hand to ensure the new beer ordinance was enforced.

This year, beer had to be off the streets by 10:30 p.m.

Complaints that the festival was getting away from its original family-oriented atmosphere because of excessive alcohol consumption by some prompted the changes and added police presence.

This type of behavior is unacceptable in a large family-type event like this, Harris said of the overconsumption of alcohol.

Harris said the police department does detailed planning each year for this festival and for many events in the city.

In this particular instance we sat down with Blue Plum organizers, EMS, fire, Downtown Merchants Association and we go through every facet that we feel needs to be addressed, Harris said.

While the police may not have planned for fire-eating participants, they were prepared to handle the situation.

This is not something we take lightly, Harris said of planning for the safety of festival-goers. A lot of things come into play and it was all geared toward making the festival a safe place to bring your family.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted: Written by: News report

which had the potential of igniting and causing serious damage



And cars are different... umm.. how? umm


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Which goes back to the statement of the police there= not bright! rolleyes

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:I wouldn't go as far as saying the police were not bright. They way things are written in a police reports tend to have certian CYA emphasis. Two teenagers hand carrying arround a gallon of kero is very much different than an automobile designed to carry fuel in a safe manner, that and car's don't shoot live flames. We may be quick to assume these two knew what they were doing and they may not have. Maybee they just saw it on TV and thought it would b fun to do at a festival for some tips. If that's the case (pure speculation) they indeed could have been a huge danger to the festival goers. Who's to say they capped the gallon container or took care of the soaked t-shirts or even looked where they were breathing. Probably no safeties or a perimiter either. I missed the mention of "explosive" but in many cases Kero ignition can become extremely dangerous especially in an uncontrolled festival scenerio.

IMO these two had no business doing what they were doing at that festival. It's never mentioned that they were invited to the festival or a planned performance which leads me to believe that these two yahoos only harmed the general opinion of professional fire performers. Do it right or don't do it at all.

Thank you for sharing Pele. smile


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted: Written by: Cody


I wouldn't go as far as saying the police were not bright. They way things are written in a police reports tend to have certian CYA emphasis. Two teenagers hand carrying arround a gallon of kero is very much different than an automobile designed to carry fuel in a safe manner, that and car's don't shoot live flames. We may be quick to assume these two knew what they were doing and they may not have. Maybee they just saw it on TV and thought it would b fun to do at a festival for some tips. If that's the case (pure speculation) they indeed could have been a huge danger to the festival goers. Who's to say they capped the gallon container or took care of the soaked t-shirts or even looked where they were breathing. Probably no safeties or a perimiter either. I missed the mention of "explosive" but in many cases Kero ignition can become extremely dangerous especially in an uncontrolled festival scenerio.

IMO these two had no business doing what they were doing at that festival. It's never mentioned that they were invited to the festival or a planned performance which leads me to believe that these two yahoos only harmed the general opinion of professional fire performers. Do it right or don't do it at all.

Thank you for sharing Pele. smile



I agree with you completely Cody about do it right or not at all, and I definately think that these two were yahoos as much as the cops.

Have you ever seen Kero explode? I've seen a lit match put out in a hot bucket of Kero. It takes *alot*. So, that is a fairly ignorant statement by the cops.

Which shows that these were less than professional kids AND that cops shouldn't assume to do the job of a fireman.

I also want to say that in reading the full article, these cops seem a little clink happy...I mean, arresting nearly 80 people sans a riot? That's pretty trigger happy imo.

My pleasure to share since these types of events serve to educate us all. smile

Disclaimer: Kids, don't try it. Seriously. You never know what's in there. I and HoP take no responsibility for if something does happen and you blow yourself to bits.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Then again, why would we expect cops to know stuff about such a minority activity like fire eating, such as the fact that kero isn't explosive?

And can we necessarily assume, just cos the report that finds its way into the media says that they stopped the breathers on the grounds of explosive kero, that that is necessarily what was the case?

Maybe they stopped it cos they could see direct dangers to the surrounding crowds.

Maybe it was cos of the context of it being an event which was also having issues with alcohol, as also reported in the article (there are numerous accounts of the fondness for some amateur fire-breathers for 'teaching' their art to others, particularly when alcohol is being consumed).

In general, ignorance seems to appear whereever fire arts and the media collide- for example, from the report it sounds like these guys were fire-breathers- not fire-eaters.

If even the distiction between these two very different activites can't be appreciated, how much chance is there that cops are going to know that the fuel used isn't particularly explosive?


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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clarence_quack
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

clarence_quack

QuackerJack
Location: over your left shoulder, Austr...

Total posts: 1927
Posted:Am I the only person that sees a difference between fire eating and fire breathing? In my mind, I see these guys as breathers, if they were "spewing flames from their mouths".
Which would also make it more dangerous in a crowded atmosphere than eating would be.


Nutella Brigade Unite!

"Look! I have a rainbow penis!" - Rouge

Owned By Steaks

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand

Total posts: 1965
Posted:Dumb kids, Dumber Cops and Dumberer Media.

If an event warrants the presence of fire dancers then they have probably been hired already but if not, I have found that we are generally welcomed but rarely understood.

Most event organizer welcome Free entertainers but this is fire we are talking about and it is their job to make sure that everything goes off without a hitch.

Please remember that the vast majority of the people working these event have little or no understanding of our arts but they do know that fire is a hazzad and unless you conince them that you arn't a danger to the public they are obliged to say no.

The best way around this is to go as a group and to behave in a professional manner, even tho you are just there for fun, talk to the right people (don't just ask a security guard coz he has no say in the matter) and show them that you have safety equipment and a viable safety plan and if you do have P.L.I. let them know about it.

You must always respect the descision of the event organiser because it is their job to make these choices and if they say no then it means NO. This is their livelyhood and they DO know what they are doing so when they make these choices you should resect it as it is made in the best interests of the event and the public at large. However if they say yes with a few conditions then behave and abide by these conditions as they are usually quite reasonable (stay in this area, not too many spinners at once, anything to do with general safety).

Spin safe, have fun and don't be an idiot.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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87wt2gxq7


87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 1502
Posted:My theory is that the kids got a bit lippy and the coppers took that as an excuse to Teach These Punk-Ass Kids To Respect Our Authoritah.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Are you sure you're not confusing the term 'theory' with 'knee-jerk, unsubstaniated opinion based-on-not-a-single-shred-of-evidence' ?

smile


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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87wt2gxq7


87wt2gxq7

veteran
Location: Birmingham

Total posts: 1502
Posted:Yes.



:P

EDITED_BY: 87wt2gxq7 (1181216449)


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:I guess I would rather the police side on careful. If they aren't familiar and flames and fuel are being spewed, I would rather my kids be safe from these teens and potential harm

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I agree with that faith.

Someone also told me that area, like a good share of the eastern U.S. is in a drought state, though from the piccy it looks as if this is in a city center, so it wouldn't hold as much bearing.

And dizzy, I don't know where you're from but I've been performing for 10 years and I can tell you that any amount of fire doesn't just show up at a public festival and give a go. Fire authorities and organizers have to know or charges are brought up pretty quick, especially in the past 6 or so years.
And they don't tend to say yes until they understand. It's alot of paper work and bureau stuff, almost as much or more than actual performing and most "newbies" don't understand that.

I wonder if any of the other 76 that were arrested were because they lighters out. wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand

Total posts: 1965
Posted:NZ but previously England and I'm gonna argue my point coz I've pulled it off a couple of times before but with that said these were smallish events with suitable conditions, a Rave or three and one Fireworks Night but I haven't tried my luck in the last couple of years so things may have changed a bit. I've also had more No's than Yes's and I have always respected the descision of the event organiser coz as I said it's their livelyhood Vs my fun and the final say so goes to them.

Event organizers want you to have fun but only if it will not endanger others and I'm fine with that.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: clarence_quack



Am I the only person that sees a difference between fire eating and fire breathing?







Indeed, they are very different. Fire eating is surely when people put extinguish wicks in their mouths by cutting off the air supply.



Fire breathing is people spewing fuel out of their mouth, to cause as large a flame as possible. Very different activity. Perpetrators seem to think it is cool or attractive and that the larger the flame the better. So it's understandable that it could be considered not only a personal danger, but a public one.

I don't see that this story in anyway implies that the cops were not bright, though they did seem to be on a mission to 'clamp down' or harass this event. Even so, there is no mention that anyone actually spinning/twirling/juggling fire was arrested.

Confusion about the name of the fuel does not imply not bright. Trying to keep a community event safe does not imply not bright.

On the other hand, there is a strong possibility that fire breathing,particularly in public, implies not bright.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:oops, yeah they were eating fire, not breathing fire. but often they go hand in hand, don't they? just asking because I don't do either and the people I know who do one often do the other in a performance.
my guess is there was an overreaction from all parties. it may have started from a concerned patron. I guess we should look at the crowdedness and the number of kids. were there actual fire performers there?
but with fire and random people (and intoxicants maybe) it is better safe than sorry


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: Pele


_...two Johnson City men used kerosene to spew flames from their mouths...




That is a description of fire breathing, not fire eating.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:ack then which is it? Is it media who doesn't know the difference...
either way street fair and teens and fire do not mix well


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:My bet is that the media didn't kow the difference. I have found that the general public calls any performing with fire "fire eating."

Reguarding the "Explosive" comment, is that only mentioned on the link which I havn't clicked on because I don't see mention of the word "Explosive" at all in the text of the post. smile

Thanks


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted::rolleseyes: sounds like your typical hicksville jobsworth copper making work for himself to get his arrest figures up so he looks good in statistics for his bosses

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