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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Pain - and especially chronic pain - can be a major factor that deminishes the quality of life.



There is a variety of different kinds of pain, but generally I gues it's valid to descern between two

general kinds of pain: physical and mental. The two kinds of pain do have similar, if not the same

effects on a person, as the perception of pain varies, depending on the individual.



Generally speaking the individual perception (of the intencity) of pain varies by different factors.



Amongst them:



- gender

- cultural background

- age



I guess most of us (if not all) expericenced pain on one level or the other (especially here on this board,

due to the common leisure activity). Some people from the 'outside' may regard (fire)spinners as

"masochists", due to the (natureal) imperfection in which we are pursuing our "craft".



Further I would suppose that most of us have perceived other people being in pain at one moment in their lives.



Whilst it is said, that women in general are able to withstand pain better than males, due to their biological

predesposition. Women will have to experience the pain of giving birth as a part of their "program", i.e. when

giving birth to a child. It is believed that the pain of giving birth to a child is (amongst) the most intense pain

a human being can experience, one of the highest pains an average male may experience in his lifetime, may

be "giving birth" to a kidney stone - which is believed to be the second most intense kind of pain a human

being can experience.



Hence both genders (generally speaking) are usually raised to deal with pain in a different way. Boys are not

supposed to express their pain in the same way, or to the same extent as girls. This is due to our history in

which boys will become men and as such would take the part of "fighters", whilst girls are (generally) raised

to life for a different purpose. IMO this approach is not doing us much good.



However, in different cultures the approach towards pain varies by cultural background, too. 'Naturalistic'

ethnic groups and cultures for say, deal with pain differently and develop techniques to enable the individual to

deal with that emotion on a different scale, than for say "civilized" ones - this (amongst other factors) might be due

to the presence of potential medication, or it's absence. Some practice "de-sensibilitation", meaning that pain is

administered intentionally on a small scale in order to enable the individual to also cope more easy with

pain on a big scale.



It seems to be apparent that the experience of the 'sensation' itself is a learned response, learned from early

childhood on. Most of us might have observed that children have a very immediate response to the receival of

pain and a scratch (that wouldn't bother an adult too much) sometimes is much like the end of the world.



I'm certain that the educational factors are playing a big part in the experience of pain later on.



When the body and mind are confronted with pain, certain physical mechanisms are engaged - certainly the

physicist here on this board, or those experienced in any kind of healing will be able to give more detailled

informations about this, and it's not my intention to point this out in detail here.



Pain itself is a mechanism of the body to raise awareness to the mind: Something here is seriously wrong!

You (mind) should become aware of this. The sensation of pain itself is common, the approach of how to deal

with it, has a whide variety.



What I am aiming at here, is to point at chronic pain and its effect on the life of the individual, personally and

- as an effect - in it's social environment.



Chronic means (much) longer than immediate. That can be weeks, months and up to decades.



Personally I had the "chance" to experience pain on all scales, from early childhood on - in both categories

(physical and psychological). Not only I had to observe the seperation of my parents, at age 2 - one year later

I had an accident, involving boiling hot tea and a nylon sweater. The result of them both fusing can still be

observed on my chest today - 35 years later - and resulted in fellow children look at me with a funny (strange)

attitude. Next was an infected colon at age 5, which hospitalized me and a few events, that left scars on my

temple (body) and the usual "atrocities" my 9 year older brother committed against me and the fact that I was

regarded an 'outsider' and experienced physical violence all of my time, up to High School.

Luckily I never had to experience a broken bone *touches wood*, but the major (physical) stations namely are:

A car accident in my twens, leaving me with a broken shoulder and ripped bands (Thossy II) - but the aftermath

of the following operation was a lot more painful than the actual event. A surfing accident, which traumatized my

other shoulder (and left me with a year of rehab), a violent attack that extracted a tooth and recently a (medium)

motorcycle accident, which left me with a sour ankle for more than a month now.



Psychologically I had the wonderful experience of being seperated from my child for more than 4 years now, the

"usual" loss of beloveth partners under a variety of circumstances that do not long for completion of the entire scale.



Now, besides the psychological short term effects that pain have on the mind, it's more the sociological effect that

I am pointing at.



It seems to be apparent that human beings do prefer to share laughter and joy, exclusively. Meaning that the one

who has got trouble rarely is appreciated - creating a feedback loop. Please note the graph at the end of this post.



Alienation of individuals, who are in the effort of coping with chronic pain, often adds to the sensation of said individual

feeling "rejected by life itself" and I'm inclined to claim that chronic pain is one of the main reasons for committing

suicide.



The problem, as I see it in todays "modern" and predominantly western society, is the perception of invincibility of

most individuals (i.e. "This can never happen to me"). This perception is highly erraneous and a potentially lethal

one too. Fact of the matter is, that this can happen to anyone, at any time.



This knowledge can be both: hindering and liberating - depending on the extent.



Certainly the (human) mind is able to take a certain ammount of pain, beyond which it simply switches off. Same

applies to the observation of pain in which empathic qualities play a great role. Which is why - for say - surgeons

HAVE to learn a different (disconnected) approach - but I do not know enough about this to thoroughly refer to the

specific subject.



There are a few threads on this forum, who individually touch the topic and if you have any stories, or even

experiences yourself with it, please feel free to share.



Especially if you know of any techniques about "how to cope with pain" and minimize suffering (like pinching

your earlobe, when burning your fingers, the need to apply huge ammounts of ice on 1st (and second (?))

degree burns to take the heat away, or even the effects of hypnosis), you are more than welcomed to post them here.



Please note, that I moved the original content of my initial post to my intro thread. It's not lost, but I feel that

this topic is worth much more than a only personal report upon suffering from (chronic) pain and it's (social) effects.




Non-Https Image Link




Thanks for taking the time to read this and more than that, I'd be very grateful if you have anything positive and constructive to contribute. Please take effort as not to derail this thread - if you have nothing to contribute, just sit back, relax, educate yourself and keep your cursor off the "submit" button, thanks. wink hug

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1176706253)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Tom, no pity, but some shared understanding of your frustration and experiences around pain...

I found the whole experience of chronic pain and dehabilitation shocking, and then later, after surviving, enlightening. I did learn a lot. Not that I consider it " worth it" or anything stupid like that, but I am grateful that the exercise in pain was not pointless.

Maybe flipping your pain around, putting it in a different prespective and getting out of your self by going to do some volunteer work in a hospice, or with the chronically severely disabled might be interesting. Sometimes it really shifts where we place our emphasis in life. Discovering how one finds happiness and peace even through pain and limitations is an invaluable teaching.


Much of our experience of pain seem to relate to our resistance to what *is* in fact happening. Pain often serves to inform us when we are out of alignment- mentally, physically, spiritually. perhaps consider where in your life needs realignment?

As for people rejecting you because of pain-- well, there are not many people able to sit with you through the hard times. It can be difficult to see how people shun you when you need them most. And even more difficult to love and forgive them for doing so, understanding that they are facing their own fears and pain and limitations in their inability to be with you through yours. The writer and healer Oriah Mountain Dreamer has some interesting things to say about this in the writing " The Invitation"

Good luck with through your process!
xoxo
a


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks Andrea, that's the kind of response I was looking for.

I have been working in a retirement home, experienced shocking events and people who were dead (but not buried). I was working in a school for (multiple) handicapped people - sometimes really messy, but the smiles genuine and priceless. That said: smiling is easy when you're all good (and on unprescribed drugs)...

How hard is it to accept that some ppl live in a different dimension (on the same planet)? And just to take them as they come. I mean I can cope with myself pretty good and it's not as if pain strikes me every step I take.

But I get an aggressive attitude put straight in my face: "caught non smiling" ubblol How ridiculous is that?

If somebody ain't smiling and I don't want to see it, I can turn my head and look the other way, but put my attitude towards them and make things worse.

Thanks for the book, I will have a look into it asap

 Written by:

Maybe flipping your pain around, putting it in a different perspective and getting out of your self



That's what I got to do - every alternate day smile

PS: I'm about to edit my OP soon, as this is not so much about me, but general issues - just so that you know.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:make sure to use the 'mark as edited' option wink

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:The Invitation

It doesnt interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for
and if you dare to dream of meeting your hearts longing.

It doesnt interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool
for love
for your dream
for the adventure of being alive.

It doesnt interest me what planets are squaring your moon...
I want to know if you have touched the centre of your own sorrow
if you have been opened by lifes betrayals
or have become shrivelled and closed
from fear of further pain.

I want to know if you can sit with pain
mine or your own
without moving to hide it
or fade it
or fix it.

I want to know if you can be with joy
mine or your own
if you can dance with wildness
and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes
without cautioning us
to be careful
to be realistic
to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesnt interest me if the story you are telling me
is true.
I want to know if you can
disappoint another
to be true to yourself.
If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.
If you can be faithless
and therefore trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see Beauty
even when it is not pretty
every day.
And if you can source your own life
from its presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure
yours and mine
and still stand at the edge of the lake
and shout to the silver of the full moon,
Yes.

It doesnt interest me
to know where you live or how much money you have.
I want to know if you can get up
after the night of grief and despair
weary and bruised to the bone
and do what needs to be done
to feed the children.

It doesnt interest me who you know
or how you came to be here.
I want to know if you will stand
in the centre of the fire
with me
and not shrink back.

It doesnt interest me where or what or with whom
you have studied.
I want to know what sustains you
from the inside
when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone
with yourself
and if you truly like the company you keep
in the empty moments.



Mountaindreaming, from the book The Invitation published by HarperSanFrancisco, 1999 All rights reserved


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast

Total posts: 5967
Posted:Thanks for posting that Andrea

hug

x


Getting to the other side smile

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:wow.. thanks for making the effort to post this. hug It is amazing... "the invitation" sounds like written by a woman *scrolls up* can't extract a hint from the name shrug

 Written by: andrea

I found the whole experience of chronic pain and dehabilitation shocking, and then later, after surviving, enlightening. I did learn a lot. Not that I consider it " worth it" or anything stupid like that, but I am grateful that the exercise in pain was not pointless.



There is something else I would like to talk to you about then, because I have no idea, what experience struck you.

On one side it's true, that pain can be enlightening... certainly it's never pointless. On the other side it can really be something that sucks on the juice of life and creates a struggle.

I do also understand ppl having problems to cope with others, who are in pain - but I find it hard to accept that they put then a negative attitude into their faces. Like I said: "SMILE! You censored! This is THAILAND! The land of SMILES!" [/completely exaggerated] ubblol

If the approach would be like that, I would burst out laughing, but unfortunately the attitude is more subtle and less absurd...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:the invitation was written by a woman of the name 'Oriah House'

just read this whole thing, dont have anything to post really, but am thoroughly interested smile

hug


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:tom, I have been thinking about someone " critizising" you for not smiling.



Maybe the person was really just wanting you to be happy, or trying to reminding you that there are wonderful things to be happy about everywhere. Or maybe even just recognizing that someone else has noted your pain and wished better for you-- maybe seeing it in a different way will let you release the frustration around it? He probably meant well, and one might even think it is kinda nice someone even noticed anothers state of being-- usually we are completely self absorbed!



I got sick after doing relief work in thailand post tsunami. It was an infection related inflammation that looks a lot like rheumatoid arthritis.At first the docs thought it was ms and would be progressive irreversible dehabilitation. But it took a year to diagnose it, never mind treat it, and I was losing my mobility, and losing my ability to work, some days could not wash my own hair. Pain so that I could not think at all some days, never mind move.Other days were surprisingly fine. It flucuated unpredicatibly.



As this was happenning and I was in and out of the hospital, my friends and family were dying in various hospitals around me.I saw many people die and many deal with intense grief and loss. Including the tsunami, I lost over twenty people close to me in a very short time frame. It was disorienting.



I tried to run away and distract myself travelling with a good friend, to Uberpoi in Scotland, but while there he was prone to depression, and not happy, and then my father got seriously ill and half way through my trip I suddenly had to travel back to be with him as he died. But first he asked me to get the brother he had disowned to come and be there too- after they had not talked for over ten years. Difficult. Then my stepmother "disappeared" after his death, and for six weeks I did not know where her or his remains were.



That surprisingly is the short version.



Thats when I broke. At least now I know what it takes to break me, and it is quite a lot.



Someone very patient came and helped me cope until I got a proper diagnoses, which was good, and gave me the space to deal with the grief and shock. The illness and pain is now almost gone

( flares occasionally and some permanent joint damage)



There ya are, more then you ever wanted to know!



Point is, we never know what others are going through, so best not to make assumptions at all, hey!I respect peoples pain in a way I never did, and make no assumptions about what they can or should be doing about it. I am a better healer for it. Yes, I can sit there and be fully present if I need to, though I dont seek it to be sure...

hug hug

EDITED_BY: BansheeCat (1176747848)


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic


Total posts: 166
Posted:I have a friend who suffers with a lot of joint pain, and he once said something that really worked for me (I am hypermobile and I've been mashing my joints about all my life, so I suffer badly with swelling, stiffness, sprains, creep (when joints seize after being in the same position too long) and early onset osteoarthritis, oh and post-viral fatigue just for shits and giggles).

He pointed out (quite rightly) that humans have no capacity to remember pain. Yeah, we remember the fact that something hurt, but we can't recall the sensation, I think it's some kind of survival mechanism, otherwise why would women have more than one child wink. So when he is struggling, he reminds himself that what he feels now, he won't remember tomorrow, that pain, like everything else is not permanent and unchanging, and he finds comfort in that; the hope, and the looking forward to the time when he can't remember anymore. There have been a lot of times, from standing on a packed bus with my hips and knees silently screaming at me, to lying trapped underneath my motorbike, when I have taken great comfort in the idea that I won't recall what I am feeling.

We really are a messed up bunch for people practicing a physical art :P


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:to be fair, a woman with kids told me kidney stones are worse than childbirth
someone told me offer up your pain to jesus (or diety of your choice) to take some of His pain away
lets see list of pains is lengthy, was using narcs recreationally leading to high tolerance and have ulcer so i cannot take aleve or advil, mostly i just have to breath through it, i find that crying makes it feel better for some reason...anyone know why?


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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_Aime_
SILVER Member since Jan 2004

_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 4172
Posted:I work in a nursing home.

When I see some of the physical and mental suffering that some of the people I look after go through, the 'teenage angst' I get sometimes seems somewhat pathetic when I look back.

Generally, I've got no time for pain. Either emotional or physical.
Chin up and get on with it is what I say to myself.

I cant help anybody if I'm a blubbing whnging mess. Other people need me!

I have blog online which most of my angry/sad/moaning thoughts go into, and my friends can read this and know whats going on inside my little head, and speak to me about things like that in the internet world, so that in the real world I can be the "Hello! I'm Aime and I'm really happy, can I put a plaster on your boo boo for you?" that I am meant to be - happy, loving and caring.

I also keep a little journal/scrapbook, in which my deep and personal thoughts go and they are just for me to read, so I can see how I reacted to difficult points in my life, and to tell myself that I am rubbsih and do to better next time.

Its and odd set up, thinking about it. Putting all my 'pain' into text form to close it up so it can only be read - not talked about, and using the pain of others to justify how insifnificant my own troubles are.

But it seems to work.

I'm always smile smile smile, sometimes even biggrin, but hardly ever frown


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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Faithinfire, have you seen a qualified herbalist or naturopath regarding treatment of your ulcer? It is one condition that typically responds very favorably to various natural remedies. Unfortunately I dont have time to go into it for you as I am in the middle of an international move and it is complicated to outline in print. But do go seek help, there are good odds of success!

I found crying helped because it would make me sleep, and I could lose some time that way. Also, a true good sob session physically relaxed muscles, and that helped pain too. I am sure there is a healing aspect to tears that operates on many levels.

Sounds silly, but I am also interested in the healing of cat purring. Having one of my cats curled up on whatever part hurt, purring, was extraordinarily comforting! lol

Kash,It is true, the saying " this too shall pass" helps a lot with dealing. But when the medical professionals tell you what you are experiencing is permanent, and likely to get worse, little by little, it was hard to find that belief that things could or would be different, better.

There is a buddhist meditation/compassion practice of taking in others pain,through your breath, and breathing out love... hug


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Sealey


member


Total posts: 30
Posted:Can chronic pain be mental aswell as physical?

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:I don't have time or money to see a herbalist. besides the fact that most times when i went natural i had either no relief or nasty side effects. i do most of my natural research online now and things like peppermint teas and such seem to work well with me. i do a lot of deep breathing and some yoga. the ulcer is mostly healed and not causing too much pain but it does limit what pain medications i can take, and the abuse of narcs have caused a limit too. to each their own

i am also a firm believer in placebo effects smile

sealy: i would say yes because they say things like chronic depression can cause chronic pain, including headaches, stomach and joint pain


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Find me overwhelmed by the responses right now.

Andrea - that's exactly what it is: we can't see past ppls foreheads. Meeting you, seeing how you are, gave me no idea about what you have been through. Tough woman.

Also what you are saying about other ppl trying to cope with ones mood and being pretty helpless: that's very true and I prefer seeing it this way. It's kind-of clumsy, but mostly (in our "western civilized" culture as I guess) we often lost the ability to deal with pain, suffering, disability, (old) age and many other negative aspects (of others). We blur them out and try to focus on the sunny side of life... which is like living in denial.

Sealy, yes it can. Just consider ppl mourning for long times after some loved ones death. I had a girlfriend who mourned her mothers death for a decade. She broke in tears every anniversary, days ahead and after - making it difficult for me to cope with her. So I've been in the same or similar ditch...

I also take the guess that the use of "recreational" drugs sometimes is due to close ones-self against feelings (coming from the outside). I got a theory after which (overly) empathic people - who have not learned to cope with what is coming in - just block the "door". (Remember when I was sitting with you, Andrea and Anja in Prasumen Park? I was just getting such a strong vibe, couldn't figure and didn't want to intrude to at least verify)

Empathy is something that is naturally wired - a baby will start crying just by hearing another. Many ppl "loose" this ability later, in some it prevails on a large scale, which can be a tough challenge.

Faith - this woman must have had experienced both then... I can't confirm (for obvious reasons) wink

You're right, breathing techniques (Prana Yoga) work! It saved my fuses from melting a few times already. Hypnosis works (but who has his own hopnotist (sp) with them all the time?), there is a big range of relief techniques - don't remotely know all of them, unfortunately. When I was having that accident, the pain was so strong, I was stroking my own head over and over again, so as if someone would sit there with me and comfort me... A hospital can be a friggin cold place to go through suffering - especially in India.

I'm not sure about the memory thing though. Certainly I can't remember my deepest pains, but if I'd sit and meditate upon them, I will have a stream of tears running over my cheeks. And YES Andrea, crying helps - that's what I know today. Tears cleanse the soul, but (out of the experience with mentioned ex) one has to find the proper dose and not make it a habit.

That's what I want to point at, too. Suffering can be a learned response. If I start crying, mummy and daddy will come and comfort me, my friends will come and comfort me. It's good to know that - not as good to exploit it.

If we're regarded as "warm, happy, caring and strong all the time", we find ourselves caught in the projections of others and often feel very different than what we allow ourselves to express, due to our environments restrictions.

That - IMO - is not healthy. I think it's good that you found a way to vent your negative states (with a blog), that allows you to be wholesome and enables some healing. I have a theory after which ppl can get seriously sick from denying themselves for a long period of time.

Kash: that is the kind of humor I was talking about wink hug you gave me chuckles with that comment... I have met one guy with the same syndrome and he tried some heavy exercise (and NO stretching) in order to reduce that mobility.. Would you think that could work?

AH - btw - these ones help (occasionally): ubblove hug and ubblol

Isn't it one of the most wonderful things in life to forget for a few moments and just BE happy?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Aimee, people that have the "I have no time for pain" attitude are likely in my honest opinion, never had to experience the severe variety or could not possibily be so dismissive of it! And I hope you never have to find out either. But I would not assume that it is always going to be something containable to a pocket of your life or consciousness. Sometimes it goes beyond your ability to chose...

I do understand the idea of not getting stuck there, and not indulging negativity. It is powerful to use the only control you have- to alter your perspective to a positive one.Writing is an excellent way of clearing the energy.

But when the pain is so severe you can not think, or the meds to control your illness fog your ability to do so... well, even changing your mind is not necessarily a realistic option. I always thought well, if I cant dance, and had to spend a lot of time in bed, I could still enjoy myself by reading a book, losing myself in imagination-- So, the day I was unable to hold a book was certainly one of my most memorable. I think I discovered what despair means that day.

I am also not so dismissive of grief any more. I think it is a hugely important experience, and should not be contained or shoved aside, if possible.

The yin yang symbol contains both darkness and light for a reason. it makes me crazy when I see a hippy with it on their jacket saying [censored] like " its all good, man" It is not. Not good, not bad.

We don't need to box ourselves up into either one, happy or sad, light or dark... we can flow with them both, and all the spaces and colours in between.

yes Tom, I do remember the moment in the park. I thought it was kind of you to ask after her mood. But felt that once having mentioned it , and been rebuffed, I would have suggested to let it go-- as it seemed to me you had offered your compassion and willingness to talk, and she had indicated she wanted to leave it alone. Even our good intentions are not always something others are open to, hey. It can be hard to know when to leave people be and respect their privacy...

Sometimes kindness to those in pain makes you really vulnerable- the sick dog will bite the hands that feeds it ... or some such quote.

I stopped talking to everyone while things got really intense, cause of that expression if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all. I did not want to bring everyone down, and had a hard time admitting when I needed help. A few times I had asked, and not received the help I needed, and was hurt and shocked by that. Other times help came from very unexpected sources .Losing independance was terrifying to me.Fear was a more significant challenge than pain at some points.


Happiness is great, but to be content is more important to me. I want to be content with whatever is happenning, pain or pleasure, happy or sad-- accept it and be at peace.

John o Donnahuge has some excellent ideas on this subject, in his book "Eternal Echoes" It offered me more solace and understanding than I could have ever hoped for from a book!


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:recreationally taken drugs are away to block the door to emotional pain most definitely
many addicts are ones that are horribly insightful...i can't tell you the inspirationaly people i met in the past year and the tragic things they lived through. some of them use it as therapy.
no time for pain i can understand...you have to keep going...you have to drive home...have to go to work
i've had to function with kidney stones and a bleeding ulcer...sometimes you have to move past it and then suffer with it when you have a moment
i went through my whole work day, went home and had dinner with my parents, drove 40 mins to get bf, drove back to town where we went to do laundry and as soon as i sat down i couldn't get up, but i made it through the day with the bleeding ulcer and no pain meds
sides pain is relative...i still curse when i get a papercut


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic


Total posts: 166
Posted: Written by: FireTom


have met one guy with the same syndrome and he tried some heavy exercise (and NO stretching) in order to reduce that mobility.. Would you think that could work?




But stretching is the only bit of exercise I'm good at :P Honestly, I can do splits without a warm up. I have 2 problems with exercise, one is the impact/load bearing, I actually can't run at all; Some days I need a stick to walk, other days I can walk 10 miles and feel right as rain. The other is that my muscle development is so screwed up now, that developing them further could do more harm than good. I have had a lot of physio to try and build target muscle groups and stabilise my joints, apparently the muscle that pulls my kneecap up and inwards is barely there, it's just a tendon, which is why when I straighten my leg my kneecap shoots off outwards and frequently dislocates. Yoga is quite good, because of the mindfulness of it, I do find it helps me correct faults in my posture and movement. My joints are stiffening now and seem more stable, but mostly that's degenerative joint disease, so that's not such a good thing.

Faith, when I mentioned childbirth I wasn't looking for an example of ultimate pain, I'm sure there are far worse things (like that bloke who amputated his own arm with his penknife - took him hours apparently) what I meant was that it is an experience women can choose not to go through repeatedly, but for the survival of the species it is important that they do, so they forget. My sister has given birth 3 times, every time during labour she swore blind she would never let her husband near her again, the longest gap between her kids is 18 months.


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:huh, my mother never had labor and there is 11 yrs between the two of us smile

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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astar2


member


Total posts: 37
Posted:I had a abcessed tooth this winter that was so severe at times all I could do was lay down and medidtate untill it calmed down to a level I could deal with. It was the most intense pain I ever experienced and I have had my share of beatings, a broken leg, migraines for most of my life (they don't occur anymore knock on wood)

i gotta say I have a new respect for severe pain after that experience.. and for antibiotics and dentists.

Interestingly enough I found eatting extreamly spicey food helped with the pain. Ive latter researched a bit on capsicum the agent that makes peppers 'hot' and it's used a lot for topical pain relief in some cultures, it's even been experimented with injecting topically. It apparently deadens nerve impulses somehow.


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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic


Total posts: 166
Posted:Never mind Faith, I think you missed my point, and it's long gone now.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:kash - But if you're doing (exercise) Yoga, aren't you DIRECTLY contra-indicating for hyper mobility? Prana-Yoga might be much better, hey!

As for childbirth, firespinning and Yoga: I guess there are certain pains we love to take for certain reasons... And the mind is giving us benefits in return... Funny (both: - haha and - strange) [loooooooong sic]

BTW Faith - these "insights" can be obtained by many more ways than taking drugs. Drugs are only a shortcut, invite many more energies - much like a "Trojan Virus" - as a side effect and usually lead to abuse and addiction (BTDT). I would rather suggest fasting and meditation.

I'm just returning from a Vit B shot, as yesterdays sweaty spinning and dancing session got me another sour lower back, some Betadine for the burns on my arms frown rolleyes umm

Doc: But it's gonna hurt.
Me: Better little pain (from injection) than BIG pain (from sciatica)...
Doc: You're smart.
Me: If you'd know where I got it from you wouldn't say that...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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kash
GOLD Member since May 2006

kash

Dangerous cynic


Total posts: 166
Posted: Written by: FireTom


kash - But if you're doing (exercise) Yoga, aren't you DIRECTLY contra-indicating for hyper mobility? Prana-Yoga might be much better, hey!




Depends on how you do it wink. Stuff like these yogacise varients as practiced by various celebrities trying to make a bit of money on the side with an inane video, yeah, that would mess my joints up a lot. But yoga isn't about jumping about from one position to the next and seeing quite how abnormally you can extend your joints. I worked for a while with a fabulous hatha yoga teacher (perhaps I am biased, because in my mind any "exercise" class where you spend half an hour lying on your back has to be a Good Thing (TM)) and I practice asanas to pranayama at about a 40:60 ratio - not that it's really separate but you get the gist. In asanas there should be a strong element of feedback, focusing on the status of the muscles and joints, never straining.
This has translated across into my posture generally. For instance, as a teenager, my physio prescribed me an insole in my right shoe, convinced that my left leg was much longer and this was throwing my joints, it turned out (after a year of insoles) my legs were the same length, but I carried my pelvis awkwardly! Yoga has really sorted that out, and now I don't walk with a comedy limp, this is also a Good Thing. Measured, gentle yoga also allows me to loosen up stiffened/shortened muscles that have seen years of bad use, and to ease out muscles that have gone into spasm after a strain (my lower back is quite bad for that).
Most forms of exercise (it's an odd word to use here, but I can't think of a better one) are too fast and clumsy, it's too easy to do what it takes to hit the ball/get there the fastest, and ignore your body screaming at you while you do it. Every time you exercise like that, you train your body to do things wrong, put strain on your muscles and joints and cause you more pain. Yoga allows me to develop strength to stabilise my joints, without impact, giving me time to make sure I am moving *correctly*, which is vital when my joints are capable of a whole range of very incorrect movements! ubbrollsmile


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:it was humor...we forget pain so in your example women will be willing to have children again...necessary evil to continue the race
so i was turning it around...


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:I took a friend's 7-year old for a swim once, when he came out the sea he had a long red streak on his leg: "AAARRRGGGHHH!!! I'm bleeding, it hurts ithurtsithurts! Whaaaaa!..." Etc.

I pulled the bit of red seaweed off him and he stopped crying instantly and went off to find ice-cream.

But, for those few seconds, he made all the right moves of being in genuine pain, it's like when you cut yourself and don't feel anything until you notice you're bleeding. The mind is astonishingly powerful.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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pythonjosh


pythonjosh

member
Location: Seattle

Total posts: 34
Posted:A lot of what you said makes sense. I myself am a severe hemophiliac (aka a "bleeder"). Pain is something I have to deal with on a daily basis for the rest of my life. Psychological pain is nothing compared to physical pain, and physical pain can (and usually does) lead to psychological pain. Psychological pain can lead to psychosomatic pain, but that's not real nor treatable. Herbalist / naturalist medications are for ppl that don't suffer from serious health conditions. There isn't a single herb or naturalist anything that can help my blood coagulate, that can help generate cartilage in my joints, or that can relieve join pain the way my factor 8 or oxycontin can. Western medicine rules. If my parents were hippies and took me to a naturalist doctor, I would be dead right now.
Having grown up with a critical and painful health condition, I have found (also amongst other hemophiliacs) that we have a very sarcastic sense of humor, sometimes disturbing to normally coagulating individuals. This can be a psychological and sociological side effect of living a life of pain.
In addition to the pain involved with internal and external bleeding, joint degradation is also a side effect of blood exposure to the cartilage. Because of this I had osteoarthritis and degenerative joint disease by 18, had my first total ankle replacement at 21, and the other one at 23. Even tho I have artificial ankle joints, the 3 months of immobility (per ankle) has greatly decreased overall flexibility to the point that I can only walk awkwardly. My friends call me gimpy among other things (which doesn't bother me because they're my friends). But the fact that I know my ankles effect my quality of life is a psychological hurdle.
Pain is merely annoying to me. It would be great to not feel pain for one day and be normal.


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Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:Wow so much to write and so little time. I am currently on a rollercoaster ride of pain. One step forward and two steps back. I have always had encounters with normal pain, ya know broken bones, scraped knees, pulled muscles. Those are the good kind of hurt. Sharp but limited and responsive to medications. I was a gymnast for 8 years and always had back pain for some reason. When I was 18 my left leg stopped working so I saw a doctor. I find out I had 2 compression fractures and 3 missing discs in my lower back. Bummer deal and I was forced into retirement. I remaned active fir years and maintained my muscle tone adn the pain went away. 2 of the discs actually regenerated. 2 years ago due to many circumstances I lost most of my muscle tone an dhad a sentinal event. Nothing traumatic, one of those I just stepped wrong kind of thngs and wow were in some pain now. Right between teh shoulderblades this time. New MRI's x-rays adn CT's and guess what, I have a block hemivertibra T2-T3. I never knew I had it. It sure explains why I simetimes had scholiosis adn sometiems didn't, it depends on my posture. The darn thing is hyper mobile.

So for a year I was on vicoden and ridicule. Teh two go hand and hand when your young and full of energy and (at the time) pretty good at hiding the pain. I have been and still am exercising daily to try and get that muscle back. 2 months back I stopped the vicoden cold turkey in retaliation to the ridicule. That lasted a month untillI was bed ridden and back at the dr. Iam now back on the vicoden with an antidepressant. I used to blog about my progress but now feel ashamed to be back on medication. I know it's a long road to recovery and surgery isn't an option.

Chronic pain is a wierd thing. I experienced a third degree burn 3 years ago that took 3 months to heal. It hurt like hell, but it was isolated. I could do all those meditation tricks. But I can;t do that now. I can't hide it now. I am still strong at heart, but I am not me anymore. The vicoedn is starting to get less effective again, sometimes I think I was perscribed placebo's. The pain wakes me up at night.

If it wasn;t for the pain I would forget to take my medication, but that natural timer is pretty good. I don't do drugs. I am high on life and performance. I'm an adrenaline junky.

Optomism isn't permanent years of pain whittle it down, and the antidepressants aren't working yet, maybee in another month.

Sorry for the bad spelling, no time to check it, gotta take off to manage a musical, pop a handfull of vicoden that doesn't work and try to figure out how to answer when friends ask "hey how is your back nowadays."


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Wow - the above reports make me look all shiny and new.

As to pain reg. spine: I can advise a mix of (Thai) Massage and Dorn Method.

After suffering 6 weeks from intensive pain and nearly having my right leg paraliyzed, I got one after the other and within 3 days I was completely relieved of pain, after half a year my muscles were coming back and now I need to make constant effort (stretching etc.), take precautions (no motor/bike after sweating) so the condition stays good.


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:For the antidepressants, if it doesn't work in a month start talking to the doctor about other options...they say it takes a few months but if you start talking now you can track progress or lack there of and that will help figure out which if any one you need.
Maybe it's time to also change the pain medication.
and of course keep exercising as best you can


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Cody
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA

Total posts: 556
Posted:Thanks for the advice. I really hope to not need meds soon but who knows. If I have to the next step med wise is Oxyconton or heavy doses of Methadone. Sounds fun huh. I really don't want to go there but those are long lasting meds unlike the up and down quick but short acting vicoden.

I just bought a new truck so I am happy and feeling good. I like the natural endorphins and am enjoying the positive times. But when it gets bad is when I go down hill.

I never know when I need to rest or when I can push myself. I actually pulled my trap on the rt side by doing too many rows. That's my main exercise for my upper back, but I guess I did it too long. It's hard to just sit there and rest but I know I need it sometimes. The muscles need to heal, but I don't want to waste time. I'm starting yoga and rockclimbing again after the show is over. Summer is here and I have a nice new rack that's entirely too shiny. smile


Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

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