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tim_marston


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Total posts: 614
Posted:I started this thread to open up a discussion on drops and the many different ways to recover from them,
From droplines to flick-ups.i think it would be helpful for many of us to share our thoughts on this topic,
If anyone has any nice videos of shows or tricks that would be helpful please could they post them as well..........................if the thread is popular i will start one on drop elimination


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-sandy-
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 716
Posted:depends how badly i drop really. If i just [censored] up a contact move i can usually get it to roll into something else but a bit messily.
If actually drop it im a fan of the good old kick up into fishtail, that way it at least looks half like i meant to do it. Also if i get the chance ill stick my foot in the way and try to catch it into a kick up. If pulled off right it really looks like it was on purpose.


"Don't do it naked!"

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Does swearing loudly whilst kicking your staff count? wink

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:durb's................not in a family show but i know what you mean i often feel like swearing loudly and kicking the staff into the middle of next week
i think acknowledging the drop if you can't hide it keeps the crowd on side and is much better than srabbling around on the floor for your staffs then starting again in a mad panic,
with contact staff i think drops are pretty easy to hide but with twirling and juggling its a bit harder
origional drop lines (if)deliverd quickly are wicked
any ideas?


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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:i think the best drop recovery ive ever seen done was by arsn during the common ground show where he missed a poi catch and did a nice job of cheesy smile and pointing up in the sky to the other direction while he slowly edged towards the poi, very cheesy and the crowd loved it.

i like kick up to snes, i tried for ages to get a pickup happening with a reverse lynx but couldnt get it to be anywhere near consistent


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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tim_marston


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Total posts: 614
Posted:one guy i saw drop he made a big head shaking /sighing action did a few stretches and press-ups as if too warm up then started again,the crowd loved it,

but when i tried it they did'nt laugh it must be a timimg thing redface

EDITED_BY: tim_marston (1169110629)


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Nice thread smile

hmm this posted in "Staff"... but swearing and kicking could me done with both (staff and poi) I guess wink

Best staff recoveries I reckon to be same as you would pick up a dropped club (I roll it onto the right foot - centered - and with a fast lift I throw it back up in the air, catching it already back in spin) - there is another routine, performed by the French G's (no throw included) but I have to verify this when back in Goa.

Second one is to do a jumproll, one hand grabbing the stick and rolling over the arm/ shoulder of the other...

As with the Poi, Mr. Ronopotamus is performing a very nice routine, which is similar to my staff one... I'm not quite sure what words to exactly use in order to describe it...

Grmpf, where is a fast Internet connection and a uTube upload? wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:i like spinning the staff on my back and bending over to get the dropped one (continuous back spin)

:P


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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entheogen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

entheogen

member
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 173
Posted:I have to totally disagree with you tim about drops being easy to hide with contact staff, even small slip ups where the staff doesn't drop on the floor I find much worse than when I screw up a stick juggling stick. Why? When the contact staff looses the smoothnes, the whole illusion that the staff moves by itself is detroyed, whereas I believe when something is being thrown up and then not caught, the audience is a bit more understanding that this can sometimes happen.

Try studying some of the kick up variations with clubs, they all more of less transfer.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:entheogen disagreeing with me.......surely not!!!!

do you really believe that a small slip-up in a contact routine will be spotted by a crowd of non jugglers,and that this would be easier to spot than one or more staffs spinning out of a juggling pattern and hitting the floor?

i agree the crowd maybe more sympathetic to a drop from juggling pattern but that wasnt the point i made.imho a staff hitting the floor is a lot harder too HIDE than a staff slipping slightly,i also acknowledge that there appears to be a confusion between drops and slips creeping into this thread
also please do not misunderstand me,i am not for one minute knocking contact staff,i love contact juggling of all sorts,i also love the passion with which you present you arguements
hug

as for drop recovery,i started this thread to stimulate a disscussion as to new and interesting ways of regaining the the flow of a performance routine once the staff(or poi)has hit the floor,


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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:i think it depends on what style of contact you spin with, if you go for the organic style like kyle it just turns into a different move and no one is the wiser but kyle, however if you spin what is in your head then stuff ups are very obvious imho as the flow is clearly broken (add to it the look on the face of concentration/panic)

I saw a really good fire juggler do stupidly hard tricks in his show but he did it to the song another one bites the dust, and he would go for the rediculously hard stuff so it synced up with "another one bites the dust" so when he dropped it was worked into the show really nicely and looked deliberate (as the dropping part was very very well rehersed)


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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ElectricBlue
GOLD Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra, Australia

Total posts: 810
Posted:I do kickups and things like that mostly.

One thing you can do is leave it on the ground and do cartwheel or handstatnd on top then pick it up on the way through. That can look very cool if you have droped the staff in a clean fashion.

I supose this one could work for the guys too but it is all about timing and the style of your performance too. If i drop my hoop when i'm fire hooping. I stop for a second with a look of cute/naughty shock on my face then bend over,pick it up and start again. (think sort of betty boop style) . I have found the crouwd really likes it but you definatly have to get the timing right just right.

Jane


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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ElectricBlue
GOLD Member since Feb 2002

ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra, Australia

Total posts: 810
Posted:Ooo i just thought of another one you could shout "look a distraction" and point behind the crowd. Then Quickly pick it up.

I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:in only i could do a cartwheel,
anyone got any funny lines to share?


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CalvinKlown


CalvinKlown

Eunathist
Location: Hy Brasil - For real now.

Total posts: 280
Posted:"Whoo! That was a strong gust of gravity!"

Never lie down with someone who has more problems than you.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=...KhWuUUegv5oqDQA


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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tim_marston


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Total posts: 614
Posted:ben 's point about looking paniced is very true,however hard i try,whenever i drop i find hiding my disgust and self lothing a tricky business,
however now i will just blame it on the gravity around these parts and carry on regardless juggle


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Sort of I can't find disgust in drops - as they simply humble me. Staff is not Poi (and also Poi can be dropped), we're not machines and even the greatest jugglers on the planet drop (occasionally).



Great is to develop a fluid "drop recovery" routine and (after an accidental drop) to let the staff go down and fall it onto your foot - do a kickup or fluent recovery (like I've seen with the Geromes')...



I noticed, that the less serious I take myself and my performance (besides acting as "professional" as possible) the easier it gets.



So far I left out a lot of moves (while performing professionally), in which I'm more prone to drop - putting my emphasis on (facial/ body) expression, establishing (visual) contact with the audience and on (dance) movements.



[edit] all this cool ness ceases when I twirl really fast and



the staff takes off spinning towards the audience or

the poi leaves my hand and hurls up like a comet (same direction)



and turns into screaming panick eek wink ubblol umm footinmouth

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1169264784)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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tim_marston


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Total posts: 614
Posted:the self loathing and disgust was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek,

as for removing skills from a performance i
must disagree,from a staff point of veiw i know for definate when i pick up a third staff peoples jaw drop,however my chances of dropping rise as well,.................hence the thread

once this thread is more established i will start a drop elimination thread ubbrollsmile


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:i like the "stay", i think i used that one once or twice
and of course the pick up is great, and i might steal that


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:there's an awesome contact juggler who's name i forget (ask drew) who 'accidentally drops the ball, so as to be able to pick it up with an incredible move.

*runs off to develop new routine*


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ubblol well put, Tim

Jaw dropping wouldn't deminish much by staff droppings wink

As to cutting down: For me personally it depends much on the venue smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I drop the stick more times than I care to admit, but usually it depends on the venue that I'm performing in when it comes to what I do when I drop.

On a grassy field, I'll usually make a show of picking it up, and then jumping and landing with my legs spread to get my feet on those little parches of flaming grass that inevitably result, I'll try to work in a bit of a "taaadaaa" shtick into it too.

But if it's an elevated stage, one where I can drop it off and not be able to instantly attempt a recovery, then I'll either bail right off the stage if it's a group routine, or just stand there like a dork until the safety guy can hand the staff back up to me and I can continue.

Over the years, I've found out that audience members don't really care if I screw up.


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entheogen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

entheogen

member
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 173
Posted:Hmmm, Tim, have I ever agreed with you? I'm not saying that its easier to not drop sticks whilst juggling them, I'm saying the public is more likely to be a bit sympathetic to the fact that something has been dropped (What comes up must come down, right? ), and are less likely to take a drop into the final evaluation of the total performance. Theres been numerous examples of where I had a drop and mentioned to someone in the audience after the performance something along the lines of- well, except for the one drop I it went pretty well- only to received confused looks and an answer of -huh? you had a drop? When was that? Nowadays I usually keep my mouth shut.

With contact however, the entire magic is broken. The best reactions I find are the people who believe the stick is feather light/floating, or that the whole thing was just a long magic trick faked with magnets. This atmosphere could never be maintained when a drop occurs, or even with a slip up where some random akward looking body position 'saves' the drop.

A good example, I took a friend of mine to a juggling showcase, with many famous jugglers, but the only number she could talk about afterwards was the acrylic ball number from Kelvin. She described it to her boyfriend afterward as pure magic, that he somehow managed to manipulate floating soap bubbles to roll across his hands arms and body, and not once did a single soap bubble pop! (Okay, she's an architect and has nothing to do with the juggling scene) It took me a good half hour to finally convince her they weren't soap bubbles but heavy acrylic balls.
So the actual point I wanted to make with this? I bet you if one of the 'soap bubbles' slammed hard on the wooden floor, it wouldn't have been as NEARLY as amazing for her, and she probably would of even mentioned to her boyfriend about one of the other jugglers that night instead of going on and on about Kelvin.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Well Valerie, I personally wouldn't be as harsh as saying that "the entire magic is broken" - but this may be due to the fact that with contact ball, it's usually a lot more quiet than with contact staff.

But I certainly get your point and your example puts it very nicely.

But I guess one can do a lot to save the day with a nice, smooth drop recovery - as I said, like the G's do it .

The drop-lines are often overheard in a loud music environment, but facial expression, gesture and some (professional) routine - IMHO - do lots more than strolling off the stage like a beaten poodle... wink

Yet - if the move doesn't work thrice, I personally would think closely whether it's smart to try once more... meditate


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:lots of wicked points,
valerie i totally agree with your description of the loss of flow with contact juggling,however i must confess to never having felt the same magic effect with contact staff,
i have watched jago perform and train many times and still find myself thinking that the ball has a life of its own,
with staff however watrching meast or antti for example
i am always impressed at the aesthetics and skill of their playing but more in the same way as i would watching some one like francis brunn or victor kee's style of contact juggling,

perhaps i am to close to contact staff to watch it with the innocence that i do acrylic but until you mentioned the idea of illusion it had never even crossed my mind that people might consider the staff magic (as i do with acrylics,)perhaps i am an idiot???


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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Total posts: 3556
Posted:anyone???? biggrin

i find people think there is some sort of magic to any performance and that is why things like drop recovery is important to keep the audience with you and enjoying the performance


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Neser
GOLD Member since Dec 2005

Neser

member
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Total posts: 63
Posted:If I drop my staff, I either kick it up with my foot, then hit it up again with my knee. Sometimes I will also cartwheel over it.

I wonder if its possible to run up to it, grab the staff and do a flip or tumble - granted its held in the correct position and its long enough for the wicks to not be too close.

Any ideas?

~ Neser


Fuel your fascination, burn your desire and dance with flames

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tim_marston


addict


Total posts: 614
Posted:i run at full speed and grab the staff as i do a shoulder roll over it,it looks great and is easy to do,however if you miss the staff you look like a muppet,,,

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tim_marston


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Total posts: 614

-sandy-
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 716
Posted:cool. i recon it took him a while to be able to get that tho.
pactice practice practice


"Don't do it naked!"

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