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Forums > Social Discussion > Murder over the poi/glowstringing culture/artform - Please read :(

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Hey all,



Those who know me well may know that I moderate at gs.c - www.glowsticking.com. Our website is devoted to the art and culture of dancing with glowsticks. We're a bunch of ravers and hippies and kids at heart who just want to have fun doing what we do. For that we have a strict anti-competitive posting rules and say no to "dance battles". I'd like to say that we all follow the raver ideals of PLUR - Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect.



In San Antonio, Texas, a culture of poi battlers has grown. They go to clubs fighting over who is "better" and groups of "crews" and gangs have risen up. There was a website of them called String-E people in the past, where they would compete and fight and argue over who did what move first and who copied another poist.



This is the story of one of our members who got attacked for his beliefs in non-competition.



 Written by: djsparrow

It was December 29th 2006. My wife had been pregnant for three months and was about to end her first trimester. this was ultimately her last time to go out and party before the pregnancy really started to slow her down. We decided that we would go out to Sky Lounge, one of the more popular nightclubs in Austin.



Before heading out i was contacted by a GS.C member with the name "Spicy_truth". Now i knew he was from San Antonio and a member on the String-e-people website. usually that's not a problem, some of them are very laid back and fun people to hang out with. For those wondering why i mentioned that, for some reason or another the entire scene down here who has access to GS.C seem to have this fetish for calling me a biter, and a faker. why? My best guess is because i denied the culture and influences they try to force upon kids who want to start (i started in 2001 and was raised on GS.C) So ever since 2001 randomly at events and whatnot i'll either get "called out" to battle someone, will be recognized as a GS.C member, or they will actually KNOW me. Spicy_Truth had said he wanted to meet me, and wanted to talk some censored out. at the time i didn't know if that was a welcoming or a warning, so i told him to meet me at sky lounge.



We arrived at Sky Lounge around ten o'clock and went on to the main dancefloor. about fifteen minutes passed and then a Hispanic teenager about 5'4" tapped me on the shoulder and said,



"You sparrow?"

"yeah?"

"you're a censored biter dawg"

"do i know you?"

"Spicy... i wanted to tell you to your face you're a biter"

"how am i a biter? if i ever borrow any ideas i give the rightful respect to them"

"Bullshit dawg you're a biter straight up"



the argument continued for almost an hour, we had also somehow managed to wander over to the tables and sat down. no voices were raised, no fists were thrown, we even bought some drinks to quench our first to continue talking. Misty (my wife) and I had ordered water. Misty about halfway through th whole thing said she needed to go to the restroom and uickly excused herself. as she walked off i watched her make her way across the floor and my eyes were quickly drawn to the amazing lightshow going on at the Dj booth. Spicy interuppted my gaze by smacking the table with his palm and yelling "sparrow" to get me back to reality, and the conversation continued. Misty returned as the conversation ended with,



"alright whatever man, to GS.C you're a god, but to the rest of the world, you're a biter"



Spicy stood up and walked out to the dancefloor muttering out loud how i had ruined his night. he met up with three other guys that were standing off near a wall, and signalled that they were all going to leave. Misty and I finished off our drinks and went out to the dancefloor thinking nothing of this whole argument.



We made our way onto the dancefloor and i resisted the urge to string, as it was one hell of a party that night. Misty was up near the heart of the dancefloor, and i had strayed behind as i was caught in a circle doing a liquiding routine. when i was able to make my way out of the circle (maybe three minutes max) i started to look for her. i couldn't see her. dear god i had lost track of her and i had her phone. where is she, i need to find her. and i saw the most sickening sight i could ever imagine.



Misty laid sprawled across the floor not moving, people not even noticing she had fallen down. i pushed people out of the way to get to her, christ she had a shoeprint on her cheek, how long had i been in that circle? i picked her up in my arms, she was hot, very hot. i tried calling her name and gently nudging her, praying to god i could get a response. she remained limp in my arms. what the hell had happened? was it really that bad of an idea to go dancing while she was pregnant? why was she so hot? dear god how long had she been trampled?



I ran out of the club with her swinging in my arms. her breathing was so soft. as i sprinted out to the parking lot i dialed 911.



"9-1-1 emergency"

"my wife is pregnant and she's passed out"

"what is your location"

"we're down at sky lounge on congress"

"we're sending an ambulance right away"



I threw open the back doors and opened one of the water bottles i had in the back. covering her mouth, i poured the bottle over her face to hopefully wake her up and cool her down. nothing happened. i checked her pulse, her heart was racing. but if her heart was racing why was she breathing so softly? the ambulance arrived a few minutes later and i carried her up to the stretcher and we drove off to the nearest hospital.



After answering all of the questions the emergency care workers were asking, i looked at Misty. seeing my wife carrying our child in a dire state like that, i couldn't bare see it. i covered my eyes for i don't know how long. the ambulance came to a hault and the back doors were swung open. Misty was carried off to EU, and they said i could see her in a few minutes. this of course sent me into a fit of rage demanding to be by my wife's side, this was ridiculous i promised her i would never leave her side, and this was an obvious time that i needed to be there with her. it took them fifteen minutes of talking to cool me down and get me to just sit and wait. i watched that damn clock like a starving wolf, counting each second click past. a doctor was walking towards me, had the clock changed dramatically? the little arm was on eleven.

"Bourland?"

"yes"

"your wife, does she have any type of severe allergies?"

"no, only cedar fever, but it's moderate"

"Does she abuse any kind of drugs?"

"no, what do you mean?"

"well. there is an extreme trace of MDMA in her. enough to kill someone."

"Oh my god, is she-"

"no, she's alive, we lowered her temperature back down. but some things did occur"

"what. what do you mean?"

"Well we aren't sure what the MDMA has done to her mentally. you see MDMA affects-"

"yes i know, i've read up on it."

"okay, well the other problem. was. the child-"

"oh my god. no!"

"I'm afraid so."



She was released under my care that morning. Misty slept for three days straight. In the mean time the police were asking about what had happened, and i replied the entire situation to them. The police said they had nothing to go off of, all they had was an occurance and without anything hard to go with, it was a dead end.



That day Cleric and CynicDave messaged me. apparently Spicy_Truth had made a remark about all that had happened. Cleric deleted the comment that was posted on my video thread and sent it to me. CynicDave banned, IP banned, and traced where the message had come from. Spicy had posted the message from a San Antonio office supply store. i fed all of the information given to me from Cleric and Dave to the police and they said they would look into it. The next two days i worked as much as i could so i could start paying off the mounting bills from the hospital.



It was the first of the year in 2007 when i got a call from the police at ten in the morning. they asked me to come down and verify some information. i told Misty i would be back in a few hours, and took off.



Down at the police station they asked me to identify two men they had in captivity. One of them was Spicy, and the other was one of the guys he had walked away with that night. i told them yes those two were there that night. the office told me that Omar (spicy) had admitted to everything, and all i needed to do was sign a couple of papers, and i wouldn't even need to show up in court. Later that day i recieved another call stating that they had both been sentenced to 19 years each in prison.



All of that from a corrupt environment. is that really what it comes down from? you are willing to KILL someone to prove an opinion that someone is a biter, in an artform? My wife and myself will forever be emotionally scarred, and i will never have the child i could have had because of this. i want this to be a message to everyone, that this is a possibility to everyone, and every society. the culture down here is so corrupt that problems are no longer settled on dancefloors, its settled in hospitals. I could turn this whole story into one big "dont battle" message but i want it to be more than just that. i want it to be an exhibit of how bad society can get. how a culture you love so much, can become so volatile. Don't hate others, don't alienate others, don't call people biters, haters, fakers, or whatever comment you can think up. why can't we all be one thing, family? mine has already been destroyed, and the last thing i want to see is others have this happen. i swear to god, i want this to be the only incident to ever happen. i enver want to go on to GS.C and read that someone else has lost a family from the culture. and that's why i'm going to try and save what little there is to save out here. i know there are still members out here who share the same beliefs, and ideas as i do. i refuse to give up on the texas scene even though i've lost so much out here (credibility, my unborn child,and almost my wife) and i refuse to see it happen to anyone else.



sincerely,

Sparrow





I'll let you draw your own conclusions- but if you could, please reflect on this story.



If you could also give your condolences and hug to "djsparrow" on glowsticking.com or "djsparrow" on AOL Instant Messenger. I'm sure he and his wife would appreciate it.



Thank you,

~Kael

EDITED_BY: KaelGotRice (1168820437)


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Zenooph
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

Zenooph

psychadelic pyro
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Total posts: 570
Posted:19 years is definately way to lenient. Effectively he took the life of an unborn child, thus he should have gotten a life sentence, but it's true what you said, just by removing these people from society isn't the solution.

There really should be a lot more psychological testing done on these people so we can find the root of the problem.

What would you do to stop these people once we know what causes such reactions? Genetic engineering?


Normality is the playground of the unimaginative

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 5814
Posted:Brings home Lightnings points about watching your drinks in a party situation. There are some real losers out in our society that will stop at nothing to harm others.

Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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Neon_Shaolin
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Neon_Shaolin

hehe, 'Member' huhuh
Location: Behind you. With Jam

Total posts: 6120
Posted:Zenooph - there's nothing you can do except keep an eye on people who start getting WAAAAY too hyper about certain trivial subjects, it can either be put down to an immature teenager or someone who MAY kill...

Gnor - this is hopefully another important cautionary tale about watching your drinks...


"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:I looked up liquid MDMA just now cos I couldn;t figure how someone could drink a lot of ecstasy and not pick up on the bitterness. The sites all said that mdma is not easily soluble in water. That 'liquid' MDMA tends to be GHB (Fantasy)which tastes salty/soapy. So although I do not want to cast doubt on this story, I don't quite understand how she got to be spiked. I have had something that was given to me as liquid MDMA though (thanks, son) and it was strong tasting as I recall... confused

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I don't want to make this the main point or start a discussion which is off-topic, but if he posted that afterwards, he may not have known at the point when he spiked her drink.

However, the fact that he shows no regret is very saddening. And of course, whenever someone spikes a drink, they run the risk that that person is pregnant or has an illness that can become fatal under the influence of drugs.

All I'm trying to say is, this is bad enough without taking an intention to kill for granted frown


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Zenooph
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

Zenooph

psychadelic pyro
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Total posts: 570
Posted:If you get pure MDMA powder and just drop it into someone's drink it's quite hard to detect even in water.

I talk from personal experience.


Normality is the playground of the unimaginative

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:OK thanks for the info Zenooph. And happy birthday!

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Zenooph
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

Zenooph

psychadelic pyro
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Total posts: 570
Posted:That's what forums are about newgabe, sharing the info.

I just hope people realise how hectic the problem of drink spiking has become and that even if you drink water, people can dissolve something in it without you knowing.

Thanks for the birthday wishes


Normality is the playground of the unimaginative

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 4525
Posted:frown

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:frown That's sickening.

hug to all Hopper's for Hop being the warm, friendly place that it is.


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Zenooph
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

Zenooph

psychadelic pyro
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Total posts: 570
Posted: Written by: .Morph.



hug to all Hopper's for Hop being the warm, friendly place that it is.



I agree, thanks to all the Hopper's for making HoP such a safe environment.


Normality is the playground of the unimaginative

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I'd like to extend my condolences too, and add that all the "irregularities" I first notices when I read this thread yesterday have been cleared up on this thread.

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:It is amazing how this competitive drive, this need to hate someone can push itself into almost any area of life. I mean... glowies!!!! How macho could anyone be about glowies!!!



I am trying to imagine the next step in badboy crewcrap... ribbon poi?? Baby's bottles? Thumb sucking? Pom pom battles?? confused


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Zenooph
SILVER Member since Aug 2006

Zenooph

psychadelic pyro
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Total posts: 570
Posted:It really does my head in that you find these people in all walks of life and it makes me really sad to think that even in our community of poi players (which, I've found are generally a very friendly bunch of people) these people are present.

Let's hope this was the last incident of it's kind.


Normality is the playground of the unimaginative

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:pom pom battles? have you seen "bring it on"? tongue

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I actually looked alot of this up.



Even in non-liquid form it isn't water soluble and requires chugging to get past the bitter taste, unless you are drinking something that masks it, apparently.



And if they were sitting there drinking together, when did he have the chance to slip it into her drink? Why not his drink? That makes no sense.



She was just entering her 2nd trimester, it's harder to miscarry. I've known people who've od'd and not miscarried beyond the first.



Not to mention that if they were that concientious to drink water, know that from here on out that it would be bad for her to go out, she wouldn't have taken a chance on a packed dance floor. The music is loud and studies have shown that it can damage the hearing of the baby enutero, as well as the chance of someone crashing into your stomach. I worked at a bar the entire length of my pregnancy and stayed far away from the dance hall area knowing it would be a danger.



Why would they confess to it? That makes no sense at all. Especially if "there was not enough to go on".



There was enough to go on. Threats through the internet. Threats in person. All of that is concidered to be cause for questionning at very least and he would have been brought in.



Even in pleas of guilty it takes more than a month for the hearing and sentancing. The charges here would have been Distribution of illegal substances

Possession of illegal substances

Attempted murder

Involuntary Manslaughter..and probably others.



That would get more than 19 years here in the U.S. and the friend wouldn't have gotten anything, unless he *knew* what was going on and supplied the drugs or something. There is *nothing* that brings him out as an accomplice.



People danced around her? Even believing that someone so devout and concerned over his pregnant wife would lose track of her so easily for his own dancing, I fail to believe that people would dance around her without noticing what they are tripping on, especially if were so crowded and it is such a PLUR scene.



There is also the way this was written. If this all happened within the past month, as it claims, there is no way this story would be told with the calmness that it has. This thing would be filled with rage.



I also did a search in the newspapers, as this *would* have made the news. It has all the facets for good news and getting people's panties in a bundle... a questionable subculture that a right winger can sink it's teeth into next election, a poor pregnant unsuspecting victim, drugs which have made the news many times over, "gang" style-underground crime, murder...No way in hell any paper missed this one. Hell, if it were written well, I bet you could sell the script to the Lifetime network for one of their weekly movies. Not to mention the whole pro-lifes getting up in arms. Oh no, this wouldn't have been missed.



And there was *no* news story that matched this in any of the searches I did. I asked a friend in Austin who's a spinner about it, and he said it didn't even make a buzz in the spin scene...and it absolutely would've.



Sorry people but I believe you've been played as there are more holes in this story than in swiss cheese. There is way too many holes beyond doubt to give the benefit of.



*edit*

And I am thinking more on this.

I love the outpouring of love and support here, it is one of the things I have always loved about HoP but there are two things this thread has made me wonder...



1. Why? Is this juvenile hatred so strong that it made someone concoct such a story to build more anger against "the other side" as well as garner pity for "the cause". It is disgusting to me, especially since there is so much drama in the world already, we need not add more.



2. I am a bit concerned that only a few people seemed to question this. If someone can create this story and have so many (obviously not just on HoP) believe it, what chance do we have against "credible" media who can do it in a more convincing manner?

Why are we so eager to believe these things?

I wish I had an answer to that last one actually.

Huh.

peace

EDITED_BY: Pele (1168893944)


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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PK_
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

PK_

Lambretta Fanatic
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 4993
Posted:frown that made me ****ing cry. I'm so sorry for those guys.

The culprits deserve every thing that got and will get from here on in.

My wishes. hug


PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:There's a huge emphasis in the story about everyone's reputations... in a crisis like that, it's kinda like worrying about your hair when you're on a sinking ship.

Imagine the guilt of the writer, for not being sober enough to stop busting his liquid routine to be with his lover when she most needed him.
guilt is such a horrible feeling.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted: Written by: Pele


2. I am a bit concerned that only a few people seemed to question this. If someone can create this story and have so many (obviously not just on HoP) believe it, what chance do we have against "credible" media who can do it in a more convincing manner?
Why are we so eager to believe these things?
I wish I had an answer to that last one actually.
Huh.
peace



To try and respond to your question. I did a little bit of searching myself, and came up with nothing. But I decided that it would be very hard for me to ascertain the facts one way or another, and so until more evidence came to light the action I would take is to express compassion without challenging so as not to hurt if it was completely for real. And to not get angry and advocate a response in case it wasn't completely for real.

I know it is a bit "fence-sitting". I still don't know for sure if I have all the facts. But I am willing to pass on my condolences for if it is.

Btw, this is simply my thought process in response to your question. I know that other people will have approached this differently.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Antti_Everything
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland

Total posts: 446
Posted:WTF Pele? Is miss detective calling Sparrow a lier? Why the hell are you so eager to question these things? What would he gain from a story like this..? Naganootch said it already. I rather listen to people who know Sparrow personally. Your theory is so full of holes I can't believe you are making such accusations!

 Written by: Naganootch


Dj Sparrow doesn't have anything to gain personally from this story. He's already a well known stringer on GSc so it's not gonna bring him anymore fame than he already has. He's been pretty straight honest with me about other things before and I dont see any reason why this would differ.

The person who did this to his wife at the club made a post the next morning in Sparrows video thread. It was an aweful post that i had to delete. I saved it first luckily. I checked the other post by the person and they were all promoting "SA". I called sparrow on the phone to find out if something had happened and he told me. I told him about the post and dave banned him and everything. We gave sparrow the place the post was made from etc etc. The info he got was enough for him to call the coips to give them someone to look for. The person knew his wife was pregnant, because his post said something to the effect of "censored you sparrow, censored your wife, and censored your dead kid"



Here's the thread on the topic on glowsticking.com http://www.glowsticking.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3697&hl=djsparrow&st=0


Point your toes.

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BandanaDave
GOLD Member since Sep 2006

BandanaDave

Member
Location: Sydney, Australia

Total posts: 21
Posted:Some of those facts I would be sceptical about, but the simple fact that It was sent from a man who was deeply routed in this community negates that, no he has nothing to gain from telling that story, only more to loose. He is trying to help us by warning.

I send my heartfelt condolences to you mate, wherever you are


Many Smiles,
David

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Pinkadelic


Pinkadelic

member
Location: On top of a Nipple

Total posts: 70
Posted:man this is insane.....
i cannot believe that something so simple and friendly as firespinning actually led to death...
i just cant believe someone would kill to prove something so dumb...
i am going to send a message to sparrow, i cant believe this happend...
but tell me, what did the spicy dudes do? they put MDMA in her drink?
i didnt get the method...
still, i didnt know [censored] like this happened in the usa.. its so different in europe...
im completely speechless...


Love is Life

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Pinkadelic


i didnt know censored like this happened in the usa.. its so different in europe...




You were right Molly. I owe you a dollar.

And Pele, count yourself lucky that people actually believed your whole fire breathing accident without all the proof you demanded in your post.

ubbangel


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I deleted my full response mainly because it's not worth it.



Allow yourself to be played, whatever. Who am I to care?

And girls never cry rape. I have a bridge to sell in Niagara Falls and everyone in prison is innocent.



NYC...I am NOT censored amused. If you want proof, fine, just ask.

EDITED_BY: Pele (1168920859)


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Naganootch


AKA CLERIC
Location: Staten Island , NY. USA

Total posts: 172
Posted:EDIT : happy now?
EDITED_BY: Naganootch (1169129992)


We are defined by the choices we make

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DragonFury
BRONZE Member since Mar 2005

Draco Iracundia
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 784
Posted:A couple thoughts, for thinking about the amount of drug required for her to OD 2 things that would affect it. 1. her size, if she's the size of Adya Miriyana, she'd require half the amount as me. 2. Dehydrated, even a dedicated person can be dehydrated while dancing, which would increase the effect of the drug.
Also he may of had his drink spiked also, thus explaining him spacing out. But not enough for him to OD.

About the sentencing, the police may of just said they'd get 19 years for pleading guilty not that they had actually received the sentence.

As for people dancing on top of her, I've been to parties, clubs and concerts where people have fallen over and no one will bother to help them up. They assume that the person is drunk and don't wish to put the effort into picking them up and or looking after them.

and lastly, about the outpouring of compassion, I'd rather be in a community where there is compassion with out proof than a bunch of skeptics waiting for proof.


Do we sleep when we die?

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:pele some of the points you have made do raise questions but i dont think that any of them prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the story is a hoax due to the lack of information. I know that when i originally read it it stuck a cord in me so I hope that you are right pele because if it is true its a horrible event frown

some possible alternative explainations to it being a hoax
 Written by: Pele


Even in non-liquid form it isn't water soluble and requires chugging to get past the bitter taste, unless you are drinking something that masks it, apparently.



your making the assumption that she voluntarily consumed it and the assumption that all there is always a bitter taste associated with mdma
 Written by: Pele


And if they were sitting there drinking together, when did he have the chance to slip it into her drink? Why not his drink? That makes no sense.



it says that they didnt spend the whole night together, perhaps when she went to the bathroom and he was gazing at the lights. Why not his drink? well someone that would do something like that is obviously very twisted and it sounds like he wants to make his suffer which i imagine having to live the rest of his life morning his unborn child would do.
 Written by: Pele


She was just entering her 2nd trimester, it's harder to miscarry. I've known people who've od'd and not miscarried beyond the first.



everybodys body reacts differently to different things
 Written by: Pele


Not to mention that if they were that concientious to drink water, know that from here on out that it would be bad for her to go out, she wouldn't have taken a chance on a packed dance floor. The music is loud and studies have shown that it can damage the hearing of the baby enutero, as well as the chance of someone crashing into your stomach. I worked at a bar the entire length of my pregnancy and stayed far away from the dance hall area knowing it would be a danger.



ppl make bad choices all the time
 Written by: Pele


Why would they confess to it? That makes no sense at all. Especially if "there was not enough to go on".



with the supporting posts made under a different alias that link to him he might have realised that he had tripped up and confessed for a lighter sentance
 Written by: Pele


There was enough to go on. Threats through the internet. Threats in person. All of that is concidered to be cause for questionning at very least and he would have been brought in.



i couldnt see the threats in person bit, telling someone they are a fake doesnt constitute a threat.
 Written by: Pele


Even in pleas of guilty it takes more than a month for the hearing and sentancing. The charges here would have been Distribution of illegal substances
Possession of illegal substances
Attempted murder
Involuntary Manslaughter..and probably others.



i did find the time frame to be remarkably fast, still things get cancelled spots open up, in the same way ive sent two packages overseas at the same time in the post via the same shipping one has arrived 10 days later the other 4 months.
 Written by: Pele


That would get more than 19 years here in the U.S. and the friend wouldn't have gotten anything, unless he *knew* what was going on and supplied the drugs or something. There is *nothing* that brings him out as an accomplice.



i think 19 years is to short but it doesnt suprise me, ppl get rediculously short sentances for horrific crimes all the time.
 Written by: Pele


People danced around her? Even believing that someone so devout and concerned over his pregnant wife would lose track of her so easily for his own dancing, I fail to believe that people would dance around her without noticing what they are tripping on, especially if were so crowded and it is such a PLUR scene.



from what i understand it was at a regular club? ive been experienced collapsing in the street from food poisoning throwing my guts up and having ppl step around me in broad daylight alot of ppl dont care if they dont know u.
 Written by: Pele


There is also the way this was written. If this all happened within the past month, as it claims, there is no way this story would be told with the calmness that it has. This thing would be filled with rage.



i would imagine that he is still in shock ridden with guilt at the death of his unborn baby
 Written by: Pele


I also did a search in the newspapers, as this *would* have made the news. It has all the facets for good news and getting people's panties in a bundle... a questionable subculture that a right winger can sink it's teeth into next election, a poor pregnant unsuspecting victim, drugs which have made the news many times over, "gang" style-underground crime, murder...No way in hell any paper missed this one. Hell, if it were written well, I bet you could sell the script to the Lifetime network for one of their weekly movies. Not to mention the whole pro-lifes getting up in arms. Oh no, this wouldn't have been missed.



i had a quick search to and wasnt able to find anything, that being said i had trouble finding articles about winning the echallenge and i had very specific key words to use shrug
 Written by: Pele


And there was *no* news story that matched this in any of the searches I did. I asked a friend in Austin who's a spinner about it, and he said it didn't even make a buzz in the spin scene...and it absolutely would've.



so i dont really know much about the spin scene in texas i did get the impression that there was somewhat or a split between the stringing and fire communitys? it would appear that i was less than a week ago that he made his announcement to the glow stringing community maybe it just hasnt filtered through yet.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Antti_Everything
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Antti_Everything

addict
Location: Jrvenp, Finland

Total posts: 446
Posted:The original post on glowsticking.com is from 10th of january.



Pele.. NYC has a point, Why don't you ask for more proof if u need it before making such accusations?! All your posts on this thread are fckd up. Enjoy your high ground.



 Written by: DragonFury



and lastly, about the outpouring of compassion, I'd rather be in a community where there is compassion with out proof than a bunch of skeptics waiting for proof.



Point your toes.

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:ooooops woah, I think we should all take a step back and have a a breather.

I think the point of this post has been misconstrued and warped.

In all my years of spinning, and perhaps even living, this is one of the most horrendous acts I've heard of happening to a person and fellow spinner. Let it be known that I fully and completely support Sparrow.

This post was to bring this knowledge to light: that hate breeds suffering, that name-calling (or the US vs THEM) mentality breeds suffering, and the horrible things people will do to others in order to assuage their egos.

I respect all of you on HoP - even those that are skeptical, you are welcome to your opinions.

But I find it ironic that a post with good intentions as Sparrow has said, "i want it to be an exhibit of how bad society can get. how a culture you love so much, can become so volatile. Don't hate others, don't alienate others, don't call people biters, haters, fakers, or whatever comment you can think up. why can't we all be one thing, family?" could be taken out of context.

Because here we are, calling each other names and alienating each other on HoP - attacking the story's credibility and those attacking those doing the attacking. frown

Assume for one moment, that it is all true, or false - Either way, the last part is true: Don't hate others, don't alienate others, don't call people biters, haters, fakers, or whatever comment you can think up. why can't we all be one thing, family?

That's the message I hoped would come from this post, and I think that's the message Sparrow would have liked for everyone to have as well. Maybe i'm too idealistic of a hippie? confused I don't think I am, I'm pretty pragmatic.

I'm looking for the group hug smiley, but I can't find it, so this one will have to suffice hug

I love you guys, I really do.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Posted:Wow, I can't believe Pele is getting jumped on for critical thinking.

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Page: 1234

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