Forums > Social Discussion > flying and enviro-hippies
Login/Join to Participategeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
so, i was just reading the rabbit hole thread, and was feeling very pleased that all my friends were in more or less the same place, having a great time, when suddenly i became despondent, and realised that they had not only flown there, but were flying all over the place to see a different lovely beach, etcetc.
now, my apologies to those involved in that particular thread, I'm only using it as an example because of its currency, not picking on you. i could point the finger at myself for flyng to, and within australia last year. or to hundreds of other examples.
how can we expect people to to be environmentally responsible if we are not? there is only so long that you can say 'well, i don't do it much, so it's ok'.
I feel like a killjoy, telling people what not to do, but can't reconcile my belief that if we don't change our ways we won't have a beautiful earth to continue visiting
for those who agree with me, feel free to join me in pledging to make no flights, or reduced flights at https://www.flightpledge.org.uk/
i will be recommending alternative means of transport to anyone who is coming to uber, too
i would end my rant here, but i'm interested in HOP flying figures.... so please pander to my whim, and fill in this poll:
so, i was just reading the rabbit hole thread, and was feeling very pleased that all my friends were in more or less the same place, having a great time, when suddenly i became despondent, and realised that they had not only flown there, but were flying all over the place to see a different lovely beach, etcetc.
now, my apologies to those involved in that particular thread, I'm only using it as an example because of its currency, not picking on you. i could point the finger at myself for flyng to, and within australia last year. or to hundreds of other examples.
how can we expect people to to be environmentally responsible if we are not? there is only so long that you can say 'well, i don't do it much, so it's ok'.
I feel like a killjoy, telling people what not to do, but can't reconcile my belief that if we don't change our ways we won't have a beautiful earth to continue visiting
for those who agree with me, feel free to join me in pledging to make no flights, or reduced flights at https://www.flightpledge.org.uk/
i will be recommending alternative means of transport to anyone who is coming to uber, too
i would end my rant here, but i'm interested in HOP flying figures.... so please pander to my whim, and fill in this poll:
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
we should all just let our yards grow long
we should all just let our yards grow long
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
indeed we should.
i found out today that though air travel is not good (2% of global carbon emissions), Deforestation is much worse: over 20% of carbon emissions globally.
here are a few things you can do to help:
don't buy kleenex, or andrex: 100% ancient forest wood goes into making these tissues
get your office to use recycled paper
make sure you recycle ALL your paper and card
pester the government to stick to its promises.
(links for all of these coming when i get home)
indeed we should.
i found out today that though air travel is not good (2% of global carbon emissions), Deforestation is much worse: over 20% of carbon emissions globally.
here are a few things you can do to help:
don't buy kleenex, or andrex: 100% ancient forest wood goes into making these tissues
get your office to use recycled paper
make sure you recycle ALL your paper and card
pester the government to stick to its promises.
(links for all of these coming when i get home)
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
TinyPixie, well said, and you're right about off setting that *just* replants, however I maintain that if you have to fly or do some other high impact thing then you should give some money to fund scientific research in to the issues. Whatever you do, it is not a solution or a way of buying out of guilt.
I agree, but there is a way even if it's not easy. I actually don't think it's as hard as it could be - once the idea the 'going green' is seen as 'the right thing to do' by most people then I think we will see a lot of change quickly. It all needs to be regulated though, otherwise the world will be full of scams like offsetting.
How many people have green energy by the way?
Take a look at https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/acrobat/JeremySmith_articleJune05.pdf
And then: https://www.pledgebank.com/Electric
edit: TinyPixie, I know you're right about planting trees, but do you know what the effects of NOT planting trees are to areas that have typically been forested? I would have though that cutting down the trees in the first place has done more damage than replanting would do, but is it better to replant or leave nothing there?
TinyPixie, well said, and you're right about off setting that *just* replants, however I maintain that if you have to fly or do some other high impact thing then you should give some money to fund scientific research in to the issues. Whatever you do, it is not a solution or a way of buying out of guilt.
Written by: TinyPixie
My personal opinion is that there are no easy ways to slow down/ stop climate change
I agree, but there is a way even if it's not easy. I actually don't think it's as hard as it could be - once the idea the 'going green' is seen as 'the right thing to do' by most people then I think we will see a lot of change quickly. It all needs to be regulated though, otherwise the world will be full of scams like offsetting.
How many people have green energy by the way?
Take a look at https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/acrobat/JeremySmith_articleJune05.pdf
And then: https://www.pledgebank.com/Electric
edit: TinyPixie, I know you're right about planting trees, but do you know what the effects of NOT planting trees are to areas that have typically been forested? I would have though that cutting down the trees in the first place has done more damage than replanting would do, but is it better to replant or leave nothing there?
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
SILVER Member
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Hmmm., ok, I guess that re-planting something is better than just leaving the forest bare - at least in as much as it reduces the carbon load.
However, if we just stopped cutting down trees (I know, never going to happen - completely impractical) and left the land to its own devices without planting anything at all ourselves, then the forests would, in time (very long time, but still), regenerate and reach an equilibrium, maybe with slightly different flora and fauna, but it would change at a rate at which animals and plants could adapt to the change in environment - ie, the whole ecosystem may evolve.
Badly done offsetting not only changes the environment - it does it too quickly . However, I do agree that we should do something, and if we are going to do something, might as well do it right - by supporting companies that have done their research into the ecology of the particular area they wish to re-plant in, and who will stick to using indigenous flora.
It's not all doom and gloom - i guess I just sometimes feel a little overwhelmed...
Written by: Sym
I would have though that cutting down the trees in the first place has done more damage than replanting would do, but is it better to replant or leave nothing there?
Hmmm., ok, I guess that re-planting something is better than just leaving the forest bare - at least in as much as it reduces the carbon load.
However, if we just stopped cutting down trees (I know, never going to happen - completely impractical) and left the land to its own devices without planting anything at all ourselves, then the forests would, in time (very long time, but still), regenerate and reach an equilibrium, maybe with slightly different flora and fauna, but it would change at a rate at which animals and plants could adapt to the change in environment - ie, the whole ecosystem may evolve.
Badly done offsetting not only changes the environment - it does it too quickly . However, I do agree that we should do something, and if we are going to do something, might as well do it right - by supporting companies that have done their research into the ecology of the particular area they wish to re-plant in, and who will stick to using indigenous flora.
It's not all doom and gloom - i guess I just sometimes feel a little overwhelmed...
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think that's a really important point. It seems to me that there are 2 easy routes: 1 is to claim that we are not actually damaging the environment at all (or rather, climate change isn't happening - I know this is a silly view, but it is held by a lot of people) and the other is that we ahve already done too much damage and it's too late.
Both can lead to doing nothing at all about it.
The hard route is to keep positive about it and think that we CAN change something if we do it now before it really is too late...
Written by: TinyPixie
It's not all doom and gloom - i guess I just sometimes feel a little overwhelmed...
I think that's a really important point. It seems to me that there are 2 easy routes: 1 is to claim that we are not actually damaging the environment at all (or rather, climate change isn't happening - I know this is a silly view, but it is held by a lot of people) and the other is that we ahve already done too much damage and it's too late.
Both can lead to doing nothing at all about it.
The hard route is to keep positive about it and think that we CAN change something if we do it now before it really is too late...
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
I've had this bookmarked for a while: https://www.google.com/educators/globalwarming_results.html
I've had this bookmarked for a while: https://www.google.com/educators/globalwarming_results.html
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
SILVER Member
addict
669 posts
Location: Lancashire, UK
addict
669 posts
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted:
Here's some useful links:
www.ecotourism.org
www.tourismconcern.org.uk
www.tourismfortomorrow.com
www.sustainabletravelinternational.org
www.biohotels.info
www.greenhotels.com
www.slowfood.com
www.north-by-north-east.com
www.blacksheepinn.com
www.ecotravel.com
www.epicadventures.com
Here's some useful links:
www.ecotourism.org
www.tourismconcern.org.uk
www.tourismfortomorrow.com
www.sustainabletravelinternational.org
www.biohotels.info
www.greenhotels.com
www.slowfood.com
www.north-by-north-east.com
www.blacksheepinn.com
www.ecotravel.com
www.epicadventures.com
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
There's actually a third, not quite as easy but very popular nonetheless, and that's continuing to wreck havoc on the environment yet try to educate the general public on the error of their ways. Like going to the big protest before jetting off to sunnier climates, like somehow that's going to make a real difference.
The problem with offsets is..Today we're burning carbon that's been locked in the bowels of the earth for millions of years ( or 6000 if you're a creationist ) and any steps we take today, like planting trees, is bound to overwhelm the natural carbon cycle with all that "excess" carbon.
Outside of simply burning less fuel ( and really , who wants to do that ? ) the only way of "solving" today's global warming crisis is to replace our current electricity generation methods with clean, non polluting nuclear energy, and switch over to electric cars. It won't have much of an impact on the flying issue, but, overall, it will serve to reduce the amount of fossil fuels burnt.
There's actually a third, not quite as easy but very popular nonetheless, and that's continuing to wreck havoc on the environment yet try to educate the general public on the error of their ways. Like going to the big protest before jetting off to sunnier climates, like somehow that's going to make a real difference.
The problem with offsets is..Today we're burning carbon that's been locked in the bowels of the earth for millions of years ( or 6000 if you're a creationist ) and any steps we take today, like planting trees, is bound to overwhelm the natural carbon cycle with all that "excess" carbon.
Outside of simply burning less fuel ( and really , who wants to do that ? ) the only way of "solving" today's global warming crisis is to replace our current electricity generation methods with clean, non polluting nuclear energy, and switch over to electric cars. It won't have much of an impact on the flying issue, but, overall, it will serve to reduce the amount of fossil fuels burnt.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
'clean, non polluting nuclear energy'
in a very, very narrow sense of the word' non-polluting', yes.
in all other senses,
'clean, non polluting nuclear energy'
in a very, very narrow sense of the word' non-polluting', yes.
in all other senses,
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Clean in the sense from a global warming perspective at least. But yes, there is all that nuclear waste to deal with however I don't see why abandoned mine shafts won't help us out here.
Let's face it, solar and wind power are warm fluffy technologies to aspire to however they aren't going to meet our growing energy demand.
I propose we shut down all this silly space exploration malarkey, (who really wants to go to Mars anyway ? Lakes of methane on Titan ? Big whoop. ) and devote those resources into developing a practical nuclear infrastructure.
A daunting proposal for sure, but not impossible
Clean in the sense from a global warming perspective at least. But yes, there is all that nuclear waste to deal with however I don't see why abandoned mine shafts won't help us out here.
Let's face it, solar and wind power are warm fluffy technologies to aspire to however they aren't going to meet our growing energy demand.
I propose we shut down all this silly space exploration malarkey, (who really wants to go to Mars anyway ? Lakes of methane on Titan ? Big whoop. ) and devote those resources into developing a practical nuclear infrastructure.
A daunting proposal for sure, but not impossible
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
We need to use LESS energy, not find ways to use more!
Written by: Stout
Let's face it, solar and wind power are warm fluffy technologies to aspire to however they aren't going to meet our growing energy demand.
We need to use LESS energy, not find ways to use more!
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
addict
614 posts
614 posts
Posted:
the best thread ive ever seen on hop
i just used youswicth.com to change my electrictiy supplier to a "green supplier" allthough i have no real idea how green they are,
i am also looking for a way of dontaing a regular sum of money to a charity that will help reduce carbon emissions but i'm not good at this stuff and dont trust a lot of what i find,any ideas?or if offsetting is no good should i donate to a charity who worksd hard to campaign for change?
could we stick a donation into the ticket cost of uber events payable by EVERYONE?this would have only a token effect i know but it might raise awareness and start the ball rolling with other international events such as juggling conventions
on lighter note
mcp told me she has great confidence in nuclear power as her dad worked in nuclear plants all her life and she had grown up around many different nuclear power stations..........that explains a lot meghan,i replied
the best thread ive ever seen on hop
i just used youswicth.com to change my electrictiy supplier to a "green supplier" allthough i have no real idea how green they are,
i am also looking for a way of dontaing a regular sum of money to a charity that will help reduce carbon emissions but i'm not good at this stuff and dont trust a lot of what i find,any ideas?or if offsetting is no good should i donate to a charity who worksd hard to campaign for change?
could we stick a donation into the ticket cost of uber events payable by EVERYONE?this would have only a token effect i know but it might raise awareness and start the ball rolling with other international events such as juggling conventions
on lighter note
mcp told me she has great confidence in nuclear power as her dad worked in nuclear plants all her life and she had grown up around many different nuclear power stations..........that explains a lot meghan,i replied
addict
614 posts
614 posts
Posted:
one more thing doesnt biodesiel still produce carbon?
one more thing doesnt biodesiel still produce carbon?
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
tim, did you read: https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/acrobat/JeremySmith_articleJune05.pdf
?
I like the idea of promoting climate change issues in festivals. I would have liked to have done more with play last year as well, it was a great venue to to a 'green' festival.
It's a big problem for me: for example the only way I can go to play and the EJC is to fly. Going to a festival is no where near a good enough reason to fly for me, so it's 1 or the other...
tim, did you read: https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/acrobat/JeremySmith_articleJune05.pdf
?
I like the idea of promoting climate change issues in festivals. I would have liked to have done more with play last year as well, it was a great venue to to a 'green' festival.
It's a big problem for me: for example the only way I can go to play and the EJC is to fly. Going to a festival is no where near a good enough reason to fly for me, so it's 1 or the other...
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Using less energy is the ideal, I agree, but given that very very few people are actually interested in using less in the way of fossil fuels , just look at the justifications for flying/wanting to fly on this thread ( and what amounts to nothing more than a lifestyle choice, really ) I don't see us making any progress with that ideal.
If we factor in the projected increase in coal fired electricity generation plants in China, India and the US, and add in the projected increase in personal automobiles in China alone, then using less, from a global perspective, ain't gonna happen.
Practically , we need to find ways to generate cleaner power.
tim marston,,maybe think about saving up those donations and buying yourself a really nice bicycle. Awareness isn't really an issue anymore seeing as how the media carries stories on global warming, daily. Acting on that awareness is what really needs to be addressed.
Using less energy is the ideal, I agree, but given that very very few people are actually interested in using less in the way of fossil fuels , just look at the justifications for flying/wanting to fly on this thread ( and what amounts to nothing more than a lifestyle choice, really ) I don't see us making any progress with that ideal.
If we factor in the projected increase in coal fired electricity generation plants in China, India and the US, and add in the projected increase in personal automobiles in China alone, then using less, from a global perspective, ain't gonna happen.
Practically , we need to find ways to generate cleaner power.
tim marston,,maybe think about saving up those donations and buying yourself a really nice bicycle. Awareness isn't really an issue anymore seeing as how the media carries stories on global warming, daily. Acting on that awareness is what really needs to be addressed.
addict
614 posts
614 posts
Posted:
sym,
cheers dude very interesting,i am fortunatly signed up with ecotricity so i geuss its a tiny step in the right direction,i will try and convince my family and friends to do the same,perhaps we all should?
as for raising awarenss through festivals lets see what rob thinks and take it from there.(feurkunst next)
sym,
cheers dude very interesting,i am fortunatly signed up with ecotricity so i geuss its a tiny step in the right direction,i will try and convince my family and friends to do the same,perhaps we all should?
as for raising awarenss through festivals lets see what rob thinks and take it from there.(feurkunst next)
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
well, i'm really up for using festivals to promote environmental awareness
the new uberevents website will encourage people to use clener transport options, like trains, or at worst liftshares so that noone travels there on their own in a car... and we'll be directing those who are flying (from the US, Oz) to offset schemes that focus on renewables technology, rather than just planting trees. I'd like to ask andy house to re-do his 'reconciling spinning fire with being eco' workshop, maybe, and there are a few other things we could do....
R
well, i'm really up for using festivals to promote environmental awareness
the new uberevents website will encourage people to use clener transport options, like trains, or at worst liftshares so that noone travels there on their own in a car... and we'll be directing those who are flying (from the US, Oz) to offset schemes that focus on renewables technology, rather than just planting trees. I'd like to ask andy house to re-do his 'reconciling spinning fire with being eco' workshop, maybe, and there are a few other things we could do....
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
addict
614 posts
614 posts
Posted:
like an attendance donation?
EDITED_BY: tim_marston (1169235110)
like an attendance donation?
EDITED_BY: tim_marston (1169235110)
addict
614 posts
614 posts
Posted:
i thought about coming to france with a few people in a van,but is the train better??
i thought about coming to france with a few people in a van,but is the train better??
BRONZE Member
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Sitting down facing forward . . .
2,387 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posted:
I've been lurking on this thread for a while as it's something that we at HoP have been thinking on and working on for a while. It's good to see the awareness and concern out there, so I hope there is good support for what we do.
We are well aware that NZ is a long way away from everywhere and air transport is a necessary evil for us so until we can get those wormholes that some people think we have for our delivery system working
, we're taking steps to offset the shipping impact (as just one example). I also heard Richard Branston on the news when he was in Christchurch a few days ago saying that Virgin was investing (I think he said this amount) $6Billion in alternative jet fuel as he has become a convert to the cause as it were and feels his responsibilities. I guess regardless of the whether I got the amount right or not, the thought and some action is there.
FYI, in NZ, the government took ownership of all the (pine) forests carbon credits so any "private" carbon-sink forests have to be native/regeneration style. www.landcareresearch.co.nz/research/greenhouse/index_1024x768.asp
Also the majority of our electricity is hydro generated (which caused major eco changes when forming the lakes but is overall considered "clean") and wind schemes are growing also.
We also have some thoughts about what we do can help the likes of Play, so more on this later. . .
George
I've been lurking on this thread for a while as it's something that we at HoP have been thinking on and working on for a while. It's good to see the awareness and concern out there, so I hope there is good support for what we do.
We are well aware that NZ is a long way away from everywhere and air transport is a necessary evil for us so until we can get those wormholes that some people think we have for our delivery system working
, we're taking steps to offset the shipping impact (as just one example). I also heard Richard Branston on the news when he was in Christchurch a few days ago saying that Virgin was investing (I think he said this amount) $6Billion in alternative jet fuel as he has become a convert to the cause as it were and feels his responsibilities. I guess regardless of the whether I got the amount right or not, the thought and some action is there.FYI, in NZ, the government took ownership of all the (pine) forests carbon credits so any "private" carbon-sink forests have to be native/regeneration style. www.landcareresearch.co.nz/research/greenhouse/index_1024x768.asp
Also the majority of our electricity is hydro generated (which caused major eco changes when forming the lakes but is overall considered "clean") and wind schemes are growing also.
We also have some thoughts about what we do can help the likes of Play, so more on this later. . .
George
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it. 
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
so, tim, with figures taken from the tables above, a full van and a train aren't so different. 150ish miles per gallon per passenger for the van, 180ish for the train. so take your pick, really. but NOONE should come by themselves, in a car.
but it will happen. however, i'll be trying to discourage it.
thanks george: when you get the thoughts together on how to help festivals, please let me know directly. thanks muchly
I watched An Inconvenient Truth yesterday.
that man should be president
so, tim, with figures taken from the tables above, a full van and a train aren't so different. 150ish miles per gallon per passenger for the van, 180ish for the train. so take your pick, really. but NOONE should come by themselves, in a car.
but it will happen. however, i'll be trying to discourage it.thanks george: when you get the thoughts together on how to help festivals, please let me know directly. thanks muchly
I watched An Inconvenient Truth yesterday.
that man should be president
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
addict
614 posts
614 posts
Posted:
NICE 1
NICE 1
SILVER Member
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom
Posted:
True And brings to mind how important it is that governments around the world feel pressured into using more renewable energy or even less energy (as Stout said, however, this is unlikely) so that we can bring about global change.
I'm not saying that what we do on an individual basis doesn't make a difference, it does, but that to significantly slow down or even halt climate change, we have to make our governments take responsability and change... Anyone up for a march outside paliament?
Written by: bluecat
I watched An Inconvenient Truth yesterday.
that man should be president
True
And brings to mind how important it is that governments around the world feel pressured into using more renewable energy or even less energy (as Stout said, however, this is unlikely) so that we can bring about global change.I'm not saying that what we do on an individual basis doesn't make a difference, it does, but that to significantly slow down or even halt climate change, we have to make our governments take responsability and change... Anyone up for a march outside paliament?
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'll march with you stomp stomp stomp.
I'll march with you
stomp stomp stomp. Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
SILVER Member
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom
enthusiast
394 posts
Location: in the clouds..., United Kingdom
Posted:
yay for Jo! *stomps with Jo*
yay for Jo! *stomps with Jo*
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
stomp stomp stomp :rollsmiley:
When will we (as a whole) ever learn?
stomp stomp stomp :rollsmiley:
When will we (as a whole) ever learn?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
no excuses from me - I'm pretty well travelled - and I know about the polution and I still travel (ironcially, sending this message from an executive transit lounge in Kuala Lumpur) - I understand the hypocrasy in this, but also submit something of a counter-argument -
I think that there are more open minded people among the group of friends that I have that are regular travellers (not tourists) than there are among the stay at homers (of which I also have a group of friends). I shudder to think what the world would be like if the stay at homers with their TV controlled ideas about the world and culture ruled because no-one travelled. But then again, is it a chicken and egg? do open minded people seek out travel - or does travel help people to be open minded?
Personally I think I've seen people become a lot more open minded after travelling - and usually the most selfish people I know are the ones that have never known anyone or anything outside of their suburban existance...
Josh
no excuses from me - I'm pretty well travelled - and I know about the polution and I still travel (ironcially, sending this message from an executive transit lounge in Kuala Lumpur) - I understand the hypocrasy in this, but also submit something of a counter-argument -
I think that there are more open minded people among the group of friends that I have that are regular travellers (not tourists) than there are among the stay at homers (of which I also have a group of friends). I shudder to think what the world would be like if the stay at homers with their TV controlled ideas about the world and culture ruled because no-one travelled. But then again, is it a chicken and egg? do open minded people seek out travel - or does travel help people to be open minded?
Personally I think I've seen people become a lot more open minded after travelling - and usually the most selfish people I know are the ones that have never known anyone or anything outside of their suburban existance...
Josh
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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
GOLD Member
Sneaking
1,207 posts
Location: Free falling through time, United Kingdom
Sneaking
1,207 posts
Location: Free falling through time, United Kingdom
Posted:
Personally, I don't drive as I'm not getting a drivers license (they cost too much and I'm not rich enough to afford it), I seldom fly unless going overseas, when travelling around town (i.e to work, to go out for a few, to get to a gig) I walk or take my skateboard.
As for travelling within a country, I find it easier and less expensive to hitchike (I just got from Queenstown to Auckland in a mere 3 days of hitching, for those of you that aren't aware of NZ geography, that's pretty much from one end of the south island to almost the other end of the north island).
But I do agree that pollution is a high price to pay for convenience, if we could all settle for a little less it would do a world of good (sorry for the bad pun)
Personally, I don't drive as I'm not getting a drivers license (they cost too much and I'm not rich enough to afford it), I seldom fly unless going overseas, when travelling around town (i.e to work, to go out for a few, to get to a gig) I walk or take my skateboard.
As for travelling within a country, I find it easier and less expensive to hitchike (I just got from Queenstown to Auckland in a mere 3 days of hitching, for those of you that aren't aware of NZ geography, that's pretty much from one end of the south island to almost the other end of the north island).
But I do agree that pollution is a high price to pay for convenience, if we could all settle for a little less it would do a world of good (sorry for the bad pun
) Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you land among the stars
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
Josh has raised a good point.
Through my own travelling, I certainly have a greater tolerance and understanding of many things. In fact many, if not all, of the nicest people i have ever met, have been quite well travelled.
I've kept out of this conversation because, I travel quite a bit at the moment. Between Spain, UK, India, Germany, UK etc etc...
Another thing I think of, These planes are going to fly anyway, whether I'm on them or not. Is it not better to fly a full plane than a half empty one?
Agreed the issue of pollution etc is a great one. I'm so looking forward to visiting Switzerland again (and maybe even one day settling there. It really is such a beautiful and clean country.
Josh has raised a good point.
Through my own travelling, I certainly have a greater tolerance and understanding of many things. In fact many, if not all, of the nicest people i have ever met, have been quite well travelled.
I've kept out of this conversation because, I travel quite a bit at the moment. Between Spain, UK, India, Germany, UK etc etc...
Another thing I think of, These planes are going to fly anyway, whether I'm on them or not. Is it not better to fly a full plane than a half empty one?
Agreed the issue of pollution etc is a great one. I'm so looking forward to visiting Switzerland again (and maybe even one day settling there. It really is such a beautiful and clean country.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
What's the difference between a traveller and a tourist ? Really what it boils down to is the difference in their daily budgets, nothing more.
So....If I go to the odd march against the government, and don't take that much money with me when I do fly for a holiday, I can use the justification that I'm doing something ( by marching ) and trying to make myself a better person ( by exposing myself to other cultures ) , I can justify having an ecological footprint the size of Godzilla ?
Ok...I can live with that.
And given that I equated one return flight to Bangkok as being the equivalent of six years worth of driving around that gas hog of a V6 that I own, I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to Mother Nature but I'm sure she'll understand that society as a whole is better off if I do take that trip the the Maldives.
After all, who's to say that by me buying a ticket is actually creating demand for air travel anyway ? the plane flying to India just might have been going anyway, and with an empty seat no less, so maybe I won't be part of the problem anyway.
It's a win win situation, and I can call myself an environmentalist again. woooot
What's the difference between a traveller and a tourist ? Really what it boils down to is the difference in their daily budgets, nothing more.
So....If I go to the odd march against the government, and don't take that much money with me when I do fly for a holiday, I can use the justification that I'm doing something ( by marching ) and trying to make myself a better person ( by exposing myself to other cultures ) , I can justify having an ecological footprint the size of Godzilla ?
Ok...I can live with that.
And given that I equated one return flight to Bangkok as being the equivalent of six years worth of driving around that gas hog of a V6 that I own, I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize to Mother Nature but I'm sure she'll understand that society as a whole is better off if I do take that trip the the Maldives.
After all, who's to say that by me buying a ticket is actually creating demand for air travel anyway ? the plane flying to India just might have been going anyway, and with an empty seat no less, so maybe I won't be part of the problem anyway.
It's a win win situation, and I can call myself an environmentalist again. woooot
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