Forums > Social Discussion > Following Your Own Path - Discussion on Self-Based Religion
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Discoverer of Rainbow Cheese
143 posts
Location: Inverness, Scotland.
Discoverer of Rainbow Cheese
143 posts
Location: Inverness, Scotland.
Posted:
Hey all! First, thanks for reading this post and I hope the subject interests you. This thread is about what has become known to people as "unofficial religion", or as the school computers tell me when I try to do research on it; "Unofficial/Indigenous/Occult Beliefs".
After being a Buddhist for 2 years, I have found deep satisfaction in my life. Everything has changed for the better. However, I feel that there is more to the story than Buddhism tells. I believe, unshakably, that there is a God, which Buddhism attempts to, in a sense, dispel.
I find it extremely interesting that some of the people I know and love follow their own paths; their own beliefs, which no-one can distort with their own. I find these people admirable and, to say the least, courageous.
What do all of you beautiful people think about this topic?
Peace & Love
Hey all! First, thanks for reading this post and I hope the subject interests you. This thread is about what has become known to people as "unofficial religion", or as the school computers tell me when I try to do research on it; "Unofficial/Indigenous/Occult Beliefs".
After being a Buddhist for 2 years, I have found deep satisfaction in my life. Everything has changed for the better. However, I feel that there is more to the story than Buddhism tells. I believe, unshakably, that there is a God, which Buddhism attempts to, in a sense, dispel.
I find it extremely interesting that some of the people I know and love follow their own paths; their own beliefs, which no-one can distort with their own. I find these people admirable and, to say the least, courageous.
What do all of you beautiful people think about this topic?
Peace & Love
Time does not exist. In theory, everything with a beginning has an end. Therefore, only things with an end can have a beginning. As time has no end, it has no beginning, therefore does not exist. GO PHILOSOPHY!!!
Brittle Week was the shizz!!!
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
very star wars force
modern theologies are starting to look beyond the dichotmous (sp) approach and looking more at a spectrum
God is ultimate love and thus in His presence you find heaven and Satan is the ultimate lack of and without love there is hell
there is no black only lack of white sort of thing
within the bars of my religion i find my wings
very star wars force
modern theologies are starting to look beyond the dichotmous (sp) approach and looking more at a spectrum
God is ultimate love and thus in His presence you find heaven and Satan is the ultimate lack of and without love there is hell
there is no black only lack of white sort of thing
within the bars of my religion i find my wings
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
fill the gap
See to me "religion" sometimes boils down to the desire of mankind to trick nature/ fate in their own benefit. Much like: "I obey your ruling and therefore you reward me with... "
In ancient Egypt, the deceased were only admitted to "heaven", if their soul was light as a feather... BUT if they had this special scroll, this magic formula, they could bypass and had paradise guaranteed (certainly the scroll had to be prepared by a priest, magician)
Faith: would you be able to define "ultimate" "love" and the combination thereof?
By the way: there are two kinds of "black"...
happy new year and lots of ... 
fill in your own desires
Written by: faithinfire
no actually there is a point when He taught at the temple when He was 12 or so
Nado: don't agree but well said
fill the gapSee to me "religion" sometimes boils down to the desire of mankind to trick nature/ fate in their own benefit. Much like: "I obey your ruling and therefore you reward me with... "
In ancient Egypt, the deceased were only admitted to "heaven", if their soul was light as a feather... BUT if they had this special scroll, this magic formula, they could bypass and had paradise guaranteed (certainly the scroll had to be prepared by a priest, magician)
Faith: would you be able to define "ultimate" "love" and the combination thereof?
By the way: there are two kinds of "black"...
happy new year and lots of ... fill in your own desires the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
1) anyone who says that religion is controlling nature to their benefit needs to study theogies more...it's not fun, it's work, i would say following your own path is more controlling nature to their benefit
2)what gap am i filling
3)divine love with no room for anything else and something beyond this earthly plane...our love can be tainted with mistrust and doubt, it is when we can be completely open without fear...this is something hard (i would say impossible) to find here
4)i mean a black of lack of, not of everything combined, is that what you meant when you said there are two kinds of black
1) anyone who says that religion is controlling nature to their benefit needs to study theogies more...it's not fun, it's work, i would say following your own path is more controlling nature to their benefit
2)what gap am i filling
3)divine love with no room for anything else and something beyond this earthly plane...our love can be tainted with mistrust and doubt, it is when we can be completely open without fear...this is something hard (i would say impossible) to find here
4)i mean a black of lack of, not of everything combined, is that what you meant when you said there are two kinds of black
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
Controlling nature for my benefit?
Hmm. I would say that self directed religion (in my experience) it is about me making myself better for my benefit and the benefit of others. To increase my spiritual depth and my connection with all beings, whether they be in the physical realm or otherwise. I wouldn't say its fun, but rather essential.
Besides, the theology of self-directed religion is an intensely personal matter. Some people have the need to think in terms of rules and dogma, others want to relate to the world with compassion and love. To a certain degree, all religion is self directed, because even if you are told that something is true, you make up your own mind as to its importance to your faith. For example, some Christians believe that God decides who will be saved from damnation and who won't, and arranges the world accordingly. Others believe salvation is open to all who ask. People with different theologies direct themselves to the pass that they believe is the truth.
Controlling nature for my benefit?
Hmm. I would say that self directed religion (in my experience) it is about me making myself better for my benefit and the benefit of others. To increase my spiritual depth and my connection with all beings, whether they be in the physical realm or otherwise. I wouldn't say its fun, but rather essential.
Besides, the theology of self-directed religion is an intensely personal matter. Some people have the need to think in terms of rules and dogma, others want to relate to the world with compassion and love. To a certain degree, all religion is self directed, because even if you are told that something is true, you make up your own mind as to its importance to your faith. For example, some Christians believe that God decides who will be saved from damnation and who won't, and arranges the world accordingly. Others believe salvation is open to all who ask. People with different theologies direct themselves to the pass that they believe is the truth.
"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman
Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
faith, have it your way then I have met only a few people who studied theology in my life and maybe it was always what I needed to hear, but all of them agreed: the more you study religion, the less you believe in what religions define god to be... 
Controlling nature = controlling matter and events, according to ones own intent...
Who was teaching at the temple at age 12? Not Moses, was it?
What is the use of throwing concepts around that are impossible (in your own definition)? If "unconditional love" is impossible to be found (then it still may be okay to come close to it, to strive and aim for it... yet) it might be like trying to invent a "perpetuum mobile": maybe not impossible, but very unlikely...
faith, have it your way then
I have met only a few people who studied theology in my life and maybe it was always what I needed to hear, but all of them agreed: the more you study religion, the less you believe in what religions define god to be... Controlling nature = controlling matter and events, according to ones own intent...
Who was teaching at the temple at age 12? Not Moses, was it?
What is the use of throwing concepts around that are impossible (in your own definition)? If "unconditional love" is impossible to be found (then it still may be okay to come close to it, to strive and aim for it... yet) it might be like trying to invent a "perpetuum mobile": maybe not impossible, but very unlikely...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
enthusiast
363 posts
Location: manchester uk
Posted:
but all of them agreed: the more you study religion, the less you believe in what religions define god to be
i couldn't agree more the problem they all start to face is that even the most ardent fundimentalist is an atheist about everyone elses god.
i suspect the problem comes for them when they try to explain why there personal god is exempt from the reasoning they use to disprove the gods of everyone else.
but all of them agreed: the more you study religion, the less you believe in what religions define god to be
i couldn't agree more the problem they all start to face is that even the most ardent fundimentalist is an atheist about everyone elses god.
i suspect the problem comes for them when they try to explain why there personal god is exempt from the reasoning they use to disprove the gods of everyone else.
My nunchucks vital statictics
weight: 500g
handle lenght: 16 inches
chain length: 2 inches
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Some great ideas.
I have always thought that the answer was in Genesis. What is showing up for me now is what did all that stuff with Adam and Eve and the Serpent in the Garden really mean.
If eating the fruit of knowledge caused us (humans) to fall, and committed us to a life of servitude and suffering. Then obviously not eating is the solution (ie. not believing the stories in the bible, for example). If we started from nothing, and accept that there is no inherent meaning to life or God for that matter, then we will be free.
Simple
Some great ideas.
I have always thought that the answer was in Genesis. What is showing up for me now is what did all that stuff with Adam and Eve and the Serpent in the Garden really mean.
If eating the fruit of knowledge caused us (humans) to fall, and committed us to a life of servitude and suffering. Then obviously not eating is the solution (ie. not believing the stories in the bible, for example). If we started from nothing, and accept that there is no inherent meaning to life or God for that matter, then we will be free.
Simple
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
Umm.. Hate to play devil's advocate here, but it wasn't the Tree of Knowledge that caused the fall of man, but the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If you were to imagine a world where we could only do good, we (allegedly) only knew the right thing to do, when someone needed to help we assisted without a thought, without worrying about how that affected us, then the world would be an easier place in which to live.
But the fun part, is that with the knowledge of doing something harmful, it makes the good that is done that more good. When we have that knowledge, that choice, it makes our decisions more important. When we choose the kind thing to do, the compassionate and loving thing to do, over something that isn't, the goodness that was once attributed to God can now be attributed to ourselves. No religion would say that no kind things are done by non-believers, therefore goodness (and otherwise) is a human choice.
Written by: Stone
If eating the fruit of knowledge caused us (humans) to fall, and committed us to a life of servitude and suffering. Then obviously not eating is the solution (ie. not believing the stories in the bible, for example). If we started from nothing, and accept that there is no inherent meaning to life or God for that matter, then we will be free.
Umm.. Hate to play devil's advocate here, but it wasn't the Tree of Knowledge that caused the fall of man, but the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. If you were to imagine a world where we could only do good, we (allegedly) only knew the right thing to do, when someone needed to help we assisted without a thought, without worrying about how that affected us, then the world would be an easier place in which to live.
But the fun part, is that with the knowledge of doing something harmful, it makes the good that is done that more good. When we have that knowledge, that choice, it makes our decisions more important. When we choose the kind thing to do, the compassionate and loving thing to do, over something that isn't, the goodness that was once attributed to God can now be attributed to ourselves. No religion would say that no kind things are done by non-believers, therefore goodness (and otherwise) is a human choice.
"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman
Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Wonderloey: "good and bad" and it's distinction is IMHO a conditioning. There are consequences of actions, such as murder and having sex - to contradict the social conditioning: the latter might result in giving birth to a mass murderer as the other might end his life...
IMO life is about making choices and taking chances - or not, however...
The thing that gets more important to me is "awareness" (as in "know thyself", etc.), whilst it not necessarily takes away randomness of actions and therefore the element of surprise. For me it just adds gentleness to life.
The other (more and more) important thing is "celebration" of life (which breeds awareness and vice versa). With the outcome that everything done gets added this special touch of individuality and meaning.
Finally, not so much staring at other peoples (bright) light and therefore get blinded for what light is within myself and within those, who just not happened to have polished their lamp, yet
Stone: I very much like that metaphor - to me the story always was an indication for an unforgiving and kind of parent/ father that I wouldn't ever want to have. I have to let this sink in and see what's coming up...
But as I understand you, Rob, I also am far to much bound to language (so far) as to really be able to find the correct words in order to explain, what I conceive "god" to be - but then again, maybe I'm just too young
LilBboy, please excuse as if this appears like I am hijacking your thread - the topic just is one of my alltime favourites. I will try to stand back more as of now
Wonderloey: "good and bad" and it's distinction is IMHO a conditioning. There are consequences of actions, such as murder and having sex - to contradict the social conditioning: the latter might result in giving birth to a mass murderer as the other might end his life...
IMO life is about making choices and taking chances - or not, however...
The thing that gets more important to me is "awareness" (as in "know thyself", etc.), whilst it not necessarily takes away randomness of actions and therefore the element of surprise. For me it just adds gentleness to life.
The other (more and more) important thing is "celebration" of life (which breeds awareness and vice versa). With the outcome that everything done gets added this special touch of individuality and meaning.
Finally, not so much staring at other peoples (bright) light and therefore get blinded for what light is within myself and within those, who just not happened to have polished their lamp, yet
Stone: I very much like that metaphor - to me the story always was an indication for an unforgiving and kind of parent/ father that I wouldn't ever want to have. I have to let this sink in and see what's coming up...
But as I understand you, Rob, I also am far to much bound to language (so far) as to really be able to find the correct words in order to explain, what I conceive "god" to be - but then again, maybe I'm just too young
LilBboy, please excuse as if this appears like I am hijacking your thread - the topic just is one of my alltime favourites. I will try to stand back more as of now
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
sorry, tom, it was jesus who taught in the temple at 12-
second, impossible in this realm, and saying that it is impossible is like saying the 4th or 5th dimension is impossible because they exist in a state beyond our full comprehension...
just because something is beyond our understanding does not make it impossible
i guess i am the exception, because after studying different theologies, i found only confirmation in my beliefs
sorry, tom, it was jesus who taught in the temple at 12-
second, impossible in this realm, and saying that it is impossible is like saying the 4th or 5th dimension is impossible because they exist in a state beyond our full comprehension...
just because something is beyond our understanding does not make it impossible
i guess i am the exception, because after studying different theologies, i found only confirmation in my beliefs
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
wonderloey, the story of creation is a very old, old story, and that’s one interpretation. I don’t think enlightenment is about good/bad/right/wrong.
Try a Freudian (psychological) interpretation
“A rather Freudian interpretation is that knowledge of good and evil, or simply good and bad, refers to the recollection of a memory with an implied judgment.
This is a natural process for neurological systems (humans and animals) to make to avoid pain or gain pleasure. However, human consciousness includes extensive recollection and teaching such as by the use of books, which could be called a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.
It is clearly distinguishable from the simple awareness of other animals. This allows human beings to make deliberate choices that they consider beneficial even if they include an element of pain. [The process of maturation occurring in the incidents around the tree describes, in an abstract way, the splitting of the human consciousness into the limited context of conscious thought and the underlying all-aware subconscious. It also implies the existence of an “entheogen” that lets humans experience a God-like state of oneness” (from wiki)
Cheers, back next week
wonderloey, the story of creation is a very old, old story, and that’s one interpretation. I don’t think enlightenment is about good/bad/right/wrong.
Try a Freudian (psychological) interpretation
“A rather Freudian interpretation is that knowledge of good and evil, or simply good and bad, refers to the recollection of a memory with an implied judgment.
This is a natural process for neurological systems (humans and animals) to make to avoid pain or gain pleasure. However, human consciousness includes extensive recollection and teaching such as by the use of books, which could be called a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.
It is clearly distinguishable from the simple awareness of other animals. This allows human beings to make deliberate choices that they consider beneficial even if they include an element of pain. [The process of maturation occurring in the incidents around the tree describes, in an abstract way, the splitting of the human consciousness into the limited context of conscious thought and the underlying all-aware subconscious. It also implies the existence of an “entheogen” that lets humans experience a God-like state of oneness” (from wiki)
Cheers, back next week
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
FireTom, I agree with all of the above.. I was speaking from a JudeoChristian view point, seeing as we were speaking about JudeoChristian stories... That was just a thought experiment regarding that story.
Sorry, should have clarified that...
FireTom, I agree with all of the above.. I was speaking from a JudeoChristian view point, seeing as we were speaking about JudeoChristian stories... That was just a thought experiment regarding that story.
Sorry, should have clarified that...
"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman
Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
no excuses, please - as there never was any offence
Adam and Eve getting expelled from the Garden of Eden because they ate from the tree of knowledge (about "right" and "wrong")... I regard this as a metaphor of mankind passing the animal stage (in which IMO there is no judgement on "right or wrong") and becoming aware of what they are: "humans"... maybe just my 2 rupees
no excuses, please - as there never was any offence
Adam and Eve getting expelled from the Garden of Eden because they ate from the tree of knowledge (about "right" and "wrong")... I regard this as a metaphor of mankind passing the animal stage (in which IMO there is no judgement on "right or wrong") and becoming aware of what they are: "humans"... maybe just my 2 rupees
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
This came through my network on Tribe, someone named Satya offered it... thought it describes well the "religious" path I chose for myself, though as it is every evolving I can only say that just for now.
"We are the New Civilization
We are here.
We are waking up now, out of the past, to dream a bigger dream.
We are friends and equals, we are diverse and unique, and we're united
for
something bigger than our differences.
We believe in freedom and cooperation, abundance and harmony.
We are a culture emerging, a renaissance of the essence of humanity.
We find our own guidance, and we discern our own truth.
We go in many directions, and yet we refuse to disperse.
We have many names, we speak many languages.
We are local, we are global.
We are in all regions of the world, we're everywhere in the air.
We are universe being aware of itself, we are the wave of evolution.
We are in every child's eyes, we face the unknown with wonder and
excitement.
We are messengers from the future, living in the present.
We come from silence, and we speak our truth.
We cannot be quieted, because our voice is within everyone.
We have no enemies, no boundaries can hold us.
We respect the cycles and expressions of nature, because we are nature.
We don't play to win, we play to live and learn.
We act out of inspiration, love and integrity.
We explore, we discover, we feel, and we laugh.
We are building a world that works for everyone.
We endeavor to live our lives to their fullest potential.
We are independent, self-sufficient and responsible.
We relate to each other in peace, with compassion and respect, we unite
in community.
We celebrate the wholeness within and around us all.
We dance to the rhythm of creation.
We weave the threads of the new times.
We are the new civilization"
This came through my network on Tribe, someone named Satya offered it... thought it describes well the "religious" path I chose for myself, though as it is every evolving I can only say that just for now.
"We are the New Civilization
We are here.
We are waking up now, out of the past, to dream a bigger dream.
We are friends and equals, we are diverse and unique, and we're united
for
something bigger than our differences.
We believe in freedom and cooperation, abundance and harmony.
We are a culture emerging, a renaissance of the essence of humanity.
We find our own guidance, and we discern our own truth.
We go in many directions, and yet we refuse to disperse.
We have many names, we speak many languages.
We are local, we are global.
We are in all regions of the world, we're everywhere in the air.
We are universe being aware of itself, we are the wave of evolution.
We are in every child's eyes, we face the unknown with wonder and
excitement.
We are messengers from the future, living in the present.
We come from silence, and we speak our truth.
We cannot be quieted, because our voice is within everyone.
We have no enemies, no boundaries can hold us.
We respect the cycles and expressions of nature, because we are nature.
We don't play to win, we play to live and learn.
We act out of inspiration, love and integrity.
We explore, we discover, we feel, and we laugh.
We are building a world that works for everyone.
We endeavor to live our lives to their fullest potential.
We are independent, self-sufficient and responsible.
We relate to each other in peace, with compassion and respect, we unite
in community.
We celebrate the wholeness within and around us all.
We dance to the rhythm of creation.
We weave the threads of the new times.
We are the new civilization"
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
SILVER Member
Discoverer of Rainbow Cheese
143 posts
Location: Inverness, Scotland.
Discoverer of Rainbow Cheese
143 posts
Location: Inverness, Scotland.
Posted:
Wow guys! It's great to see that I posted a popular thread, and even better to get to know all of you and your opinions and stuff! Thanks so much for getting back to me on this! Keep it coming!!
xxx
Wow guys! It's great to see that I posted a popular thread, and even better to get to know all of you and your opinions and stuff! Thanks so much for getting back to me on this! Keep it coming!!
xxx
Time does not exist. In theory, everything with a beginning has an end. Therefore, only things with an end can have a beginning. As time has no end, it has no beginning, therefore does not exist. GO PHILOSOPHY!!!
Brittle Week was the shizz!!!
BRONZE Member
member
154 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
member
154 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posted:
i believe in ebbs and flows, ups and downs, tides, waves, rhythm and counter rhythm, cycles and balls spinning round balls, i know i am untold time old, as is everything around me, i know my flesh was once maybe an amoeba, a fern, a dinosaur and definately a goat at some point or maybe a rock, some magma, a sea, and above all, i am light.
so... in light of all this, i'm rather apathetic.
i believe in ebbs and flows, ups and downs, tides, waves, rhythm and counter rhythm, cycles and balls spinning round balls, i know i am untold time old, as is everything around me, i know my flesh was once maybe an amoeba, a fern, a dinosaur and definately a goat at some point
or maybe a rock, some magma, a sea, and above all, i am light.so... in light of all this, i'm rather apathetic.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Hey LilBBoy: hows all that resonate in you? Maybe let us know?
Hey LilBBoy: hows all that resonate in you? Maybe let us know?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
Discoverer of Rainbow Cheese
143 posts
Location: Inverness, Scotland.
Discoverer of Rainbow Cheese
143 posts
Location: Inverness, Scotland.
Posted:
Haha! Hey, I don't mind people doing that! If you wanna talk about something, talk about it! Freedom of speech, dude!
But yeah. It's absolutely AMAZING to see the range of feedback I get here! People at school are nailed to their atheism and non-religious life; not even concerned or interested to find out about what they are missing out on...not even to sit and think about what they truly believe in; as opposed to the beliefs they were brought up with. I, myself, was brought up Protestant, torn between my mother who was Protestant (but has now followed the same path as me) and father, who is a fundamental Catholic. But the thing was...I didn't believe in denomenations of religion...I believed in choosing your own beliefs; not picking categories of beliefs.
Thanks again, and I'll post again later in the thread!
xxx
Written by: FireTom
LilBboy, please excuse as if this appears like I am hijacking your thread - the topic just is one of my alltime favourites. I will try to stand back more as of now
Haha! Hey, I don't mind people doing that! If you wanna talk about something, talk about it! Freedom of speech, dude!
But yeah. It's absolutely AMAZING to see the range of feedback I get here! People at school are nailed to their atheism and non-religious life; not even concerned or interested to find out about what they are missing out on...not even to sit and think about what they truly believe in; as opposed to the beliefs they were brought up with. I, myself, was brought up Protestant, torn between my mother who was Protestant (but has now followed the same path as me
) and father, who is a fundamental Catholic. But the thing was...I didn't believe in denomenations of religion...I believed in choosing your own beliefs; not picking categories of beliefs.Thanks again, and I'll post again later in the thread!
xxx
Time does not exist. In theory, everything with a beginning has an end. Therefore, only things with an end can have a beginning. As time has no end, it has no beginning, therefore does not exist. GO PHILOSOPHY!!!
Brittle Week was the shizz!!!
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
did you try the belief o matic thread?
did you try the belief o matic thread?
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi FireTom, I agree with what you said about eating the forbidden fruit being a metaphor of mankind passing the animal stage.
Unfortunately, I don’t think many people, especially those who follow the Abrahamic religion (Jews, Christians and Muslims), get it. The implications of succumbing to the temptation of indulging in good and evil, and making others wrong are self-evident. You only have to follow the path in the bible from Genesis to the present day Middle East to see that the children of Adam/Abraham etc. are causing mass destruction with their egocentric driven fighting.
This is why I favour the more philosophical based systems like Buddhism where you actually learn the skills to achieve enlightenment. However, before we can creat our own path we really have to get over our self-importance (ego/will/soul) and understand that we are not permanent, and are ultmately insignificant,, as in the Buddhist teaching of "anatta" (no Self, no Soul). This gets us back to nothing so we can create out own path/universe. On the first day...
Hope that make sense
Cheers
Hi FireTom, I agree with what you said about eating the forbidden fruit being a metaphor of mankind passing the animal stage.
Unfortunately, I don’t think many people, especially those who follow the Abrahamic religion (Jews, Christians and Muslims), get it. The implications of succumbing to the temptation of indulging in good and evil, and making others wrong are self-evident. You only have to follow the path in the bible from Genesis to the present day Middle East to see that the children of Adam/Abraham etc. are causing mass destruction with their egocentric driven fighting.
This is why I favour the more philosophical based systems like Buddhism where you actually learn the skills to achieve enlightenment. However, before we can creat our own path we really have to get over our self-importance (ego/will/soul) and understand that we are not permanent, and are ultmately insignificant,, as in the Buddhist teaching of "anatta" (no Self, no Soul). This gets us back to nothing so we can create out own path/universe. On the first day...
Hope that make sense
Cheers
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
it's not even the indulging in good and evil, it's being aware of
small difference
it's not even the indulging in good and evil, it's being aware of
small difference
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Perhaps faithinfire, I need to think about that one.
In the mean time a quote from wiki on difference b/t the East and West on their attitude to morals.
"Moral dualism is the belief of the coexistence (in eastern religions) or conflict (in western religions) between the "benign" and the "malign". Most religious systems have some form of moral dualism (in western religions for instance) such as a conflict between good, and evil.
Alternatively, dualism can mean the tendency of humans to perceive and understand the world as being divided into two overarching categories. In this sense, it is dualistic when one perceives a tree as a thing separate from everything surrounding it, or when one perceives a "self" that is distinct from the rest of the world. In mystic traditions such as Zen, a key to enlightenment is "overcoming" this sort of dualism, without merely substituting it with monism or pluralism."
Perhaps faithinfire, I need to think about that one.
In the mean time a quote from wiki on difference b/t the East and West on their attitude to morals.
"Moral dualism is the belief of the coexistence (in eastern religions) or conflict (in western religions) between the "benign" and the "malign". Most religious systems have some form of moral dualism (in western religions for instance) such as a conflict between good, and evil.
Alternatively, dualism can mean the tendency of humans to perceive and understand the world as being divided into two overarching categories. In this sense, it is dualistic when one perceives a tree as a thing separate from everything surrounding it, or when one perceives a "self" that is distinct from the rest of the world. In mystic traditions such as Zen, a key to enlightenment is "overcoming" this sort of dualism, without merely substituting it with monism or pluralism."
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
i've heard that theological enlightenment is to be able to hold two seemingly opposing ideas in your head at the same time, and know they are both true
or another thought as was mentioned someplace earlier is that it's one and lack of one
black is a lack of white or vice versa, so it's not two at all
i've heard that theological enlightenment is to be able to hold two seemingly opposing ideas in your head at the same time, and know they are both true
or another thought as was mentioned someplace earlier is that it's one and lack of one
black is a lack of white or vice versa, so it's not two at all
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
How do you measure "enlightenment"? Is there a certificate for that? Or would you need at least x number of people giving proof that you're enlightened?
IMHO enlightenment is a merry go round, another carrot in front of the donkeys nose, usually pulling an "enlightened" persons lorry...
Further "self importance" holds dualism in itself. One needs to neglect ones-self as much as to learn to appreciate ones self... ouch that gives some mind-spin...
How do you measure "enlightenment"? Is there a certificate for that? Or would you need at least x number of people giving proof that you're enlightened?
IMHO enlightenment is a merry go round, another carrot in front of the donkeys nose, usually pulling an "enlightened" persons lorry...
Further "self importance" holds dualism in itself. One needs to neglect ones-self as much as to learn to appreciate ones self... ouch that gives some mind-spin...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
it was just something i heard, don't be an
because you disagree
why would you need to neglect yourself, it's like saying good doesn't exist without bad...and action is no less good without an opposite
it was just something i heard, don't be an
because you disagreewhy would you need to neglect yourself, it's like saying good doesn't exist without bad...and action is no less good without an opposite
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Good question Tom...it's not like your eyes glow gold with enlightenment
I may have attained. it years ago and not even realised it. What a thought
Good question Tom...it's not like your eyes glow gold with enlightenment
I may have attained. it years ago and not even realised it. What a thought
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Good grief, I don’t think we are on the same page here;) Buddha believed that it was a waste of time worrying about all powerful gods; that we should see things as they "really are". A main principal being people should act for them selves, rather than succumbing to speculation about an all powerful god.
On explanation of enlightenment is the extinction of desire, the extinction of hate and the extinction of illusion. For example, "If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness will follow him, like a shadow that never leaves him. "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" – in those that harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time. This is an old rule. "
Good grief, I don’t think we are on the same page here;) Buddha believed that it was a waste of time worrying about all powerful gods; that we should see things as they "really are". A main principal being people should act for them selves, rather than succumbing to speculation about an all powerful god.
On explanation of enlightenment is the extinction of desire, the extinction of hate and the extinction of illusion. For example, "If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness will follow him, like a shadow that never leaves him. "He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me" – in those that harbour such thoughts hatred will never cease. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time. This is an old rule. "
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
newbie
10 posts
Location: PA, for the time being, USA
newbie
10 posts
Location: PA, for the time being, USA
Posted:
Hello! – I’m new to this site but after finding this thread and reading the discussion, I felt that I had to share. I’ll probably offend some people but sometimes it’s necessary to do that. I still love you all! Sorry if this turns into an essay!
Maybe this differs among other people, but what I want to believe in is truth, so my discussion will center around the search for truth. Truth is my main reason for rejecting the idea, so commonly embraced, that whatever each person believes is good for them. Because if Muslims and Jews say Jesus was just a prophet and Christians say he was the Son of God - they can't both be true. If we were to allow for conflicting universal truths, we would basically be saying there is no truth anymore - believe whatever you want to. If your truth is killing people to get your way or destroying the environment without reason - that's ok, that’s truth to you.
Maybe that's what some people want to believe but I'd prefer to retain my belief in Truth.
So what is this ultimate universal truth? Something to base my world, my life, my ideals on. Christianity? Buddism? Myself? Feelings ( = myself)?
This is where we all must make a decision. But if you agree with me thus far, you must be ready to admit that some people are wrong. Some good, well-meaning people who truly believe that they have found The Truth, must be wrong. (And yet I respect these people more than the wishy-washy, afraid to take a stand for anything people.) I understand where people come from in viewing this as arrogance, but if no one ever took a stand to claim that what they believe in is the truth, we would have a world full of uncertain people afraid to believe anything and with nothing to base their actions on.
Ok, on to what I really believe is Truth. This is where I must become more individual. Although I believe there is only one Truth, I think each person comes to understand that Truth in a different way. Some may reason it out, some may get there because of the influence of others, or they simply may experience the Truth. All three have played a part in my beliefs.
I must first make a disclaimer: I don’t like religion, I don’t like many churches, and I sometimes hesitate to call myself a Christian because of the baggage misunderstandings that term carries with it today. But I am a follower of Jesus.
I was raised in a loving Christian family (my parents continually amaze me =), went to a church where I was spared the hypocrisy that so many others have been damaged by, and since then I have experienced with my soul and searched with my mind to put my faith in an all-knowing, all-powerful God and a loving, forgiving Jesus as the Truth. I can’t prove it in an argument with logic and reasoning but I have chosen to put my faith in Jesus. As someone previously quoted, “Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject ...Other wise why would you need to have faith?” I have experienced the most amazing freedom, the deepest peace, the greatest joy and the most wonderful love through my faith in Jesus. It’s so amazing that I must share this in hope that others will experience this as well!
Thanks for reading this far! Feel free to contact me (ask me questions, yell at me, whatever =) at barefootwonder7@yahoo.com
Most sincerely,
Lisa Marie
Hello! – I’m new to this site but after finding this thread and reading the discussion, I felt that I had to share. I’ll probably offend some people but sometimes it’s necessary to do that. I still love you all! Sorry if this turns into an essay!
Maybe this differs among other people, but what I want to believe in is truth, so my discussion will center around the search for truth. Truth is my main reason for rejecting the idea, so commonly embraced, that whatever each person believes is good for them. Because if Muslims and Jews say Jesus was just a prophet and Christians say he was the Son of God - they can't both be true. If we were to allow for conflicting universal truths, we would basically be saying there is no truth anymore - believe whatever you want to. If your truth is killing people to get your way or destroying the environment without reason - that's ok, that’s truth to you.
Maybe that's what some people want to believe but I'd prefer to retain my belief in Truth.
So what is this ultimate universal truth? Something to base my world, my life, my ideals on. Christianity? Buddism? Myself? Feelings ( = myself)?
This is where we all must make a decision. But if you agree with me thus far, you must be ready to admit that some people are wrong. Some good, well-meaning people who truly believe that they have found The Truth, must be wrong. (And yet I respect these people more than the wishy-washy, afraid to take a stand for anything people.) I understand where people come from in viewing this as arrogance, but if no one ever took a stand to claim that what they believe in is the truth, we would have a world full of uncertain people afraid to believe anything and with nothing to base their actions on.
Ok, on to what I really believe is Truth. This is where I must become more individual. Although I believe there is only one Truth, I think each person comes to understand that Truth in a different way. Some may reason it out, some may get there because of the influence of others, or they simply may experience the Truth. All three have played a part in my beliefs.
I must first make a disclaimer: I don’t like religion, I don’t like many churches, and I sometimes hesitate to call myself a Christian because of the baggage misunderstandings that term carries with it today. But I am a follower of Jesus.
I was raised in a loving Christian family (my parents continually amaze me =), went to a church where I was spared the hypocrisy that so many others have been damaged by, and since then I have experienced with my soul and searched with my mind to put my faith in an all-knowing, all-powerful God and a loving, forgiving Jesus as the Truth. I can’t prove it in an argument with logic and reasoning but I have chosen to put my faith in Jesus. As someone previously quoted, “Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject ...Other wise why would you need to have faith?” I have experienced the most amazing freedom, the deepest peace, the greatest joy and the most wonderful love through my faith in Jesus. It’s so amazing that I must share this in hope that others will experience this as well!
Thanks for reading this far! Feel free to contact me (ask me questions, yell at me, whatever =) at barefootwonder7@yahoo.com
Most sincerely,
Lisa Marie
Loving Life
"Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every bush afire with God;
But only he who sees takes off his shoes;
The rest sit around it and pluck blackberries."
~Elizabeth Barrett Browning, "Aurora Leigh"
BRONZE Member
newbie
10 posts
Location: PA, for the time being, USA
newbie
10 posts
Location: PA, for the time being, USA
Posted:
And since I stupidly didn’t realize there were 3 MORE pages to this discussion when I posted my first response, after reading (well skimming some) I have to add just a few more things.
First – real Christianity isn’t about RULES (like many have mentioned)!
But I almost feel that I must apologize for the horrible things people have done in the name of Christianity. So many didn't/don't live up to the name of Christian, or follower of Christ.
And leading into the second thing . . . . The major difference between true Christianity and other religions is that it is not based on doing all the right things. It’s all based on faith and on admitting that it’s not all about me. Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism, Mormons, all are based on DOING the right things and having to earn your way to heaven or whatever the better place is after life on earth. I would never want to live under that burden!
The Bible is a really complicated book (even after classes on it and studying it on my own for years!) It WILL be wrongly interpreted and I hate the loads of doctrine that some many churches have because in so many places there are two sides of an argument equally presented. It's sad that people feel the need to split into denominations
Speaking of which – I am all for discussion about different sides (why I’m doing this now). I like to call myself open-minded (to a certain an extent but like someone quoted earlier “The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry pratchett”). Being forced to defend what you believe makes you truly understand why you believe - or else you realize that you've been wrong.
But for me, the more I study the more I am convinced that there is a God, especially in learning about the many intricacies that make our human bodies run – there’s no way that just happened to fall together!
By the way I love the poem posted by BanSheeCat a while back, I agree – but most people don’t actually live that way! And the quote at the end is hilarious, though I believe in God, I hate clichés!
And since I stupidly didn’t realize there were 3 MORE pages to this discussion when I posted my first response, after reading (well skimming some) I have to add just a few more things.
First – real Christianity isn’t about RULES (like many have mentioned)!
But I almost feel that I must apologize for the horrible things people have done in the name of Christianity. So many didn't/don't live up to the name of Christian, or follower of Christ.
And leading into the second thing . . . . The major difference between true Christianity and other religions is that it is not based on doing all the right things. It’s all based on faith and on admitting that it’s not all about me. Judiasm, Islam, Hinduism, Mormons, all are based on DOING the right things and having to earn your way to heaven or whatever the better place is after life on earth. I would never want to live under that burden!
The Bible is a really complicated book (even after classes on it and studying it on my own for years!) It WILL be wrongly interpreted and I hate the loads of doctrine that some many churches have because in so many places there are two sides of an argument equally presented. It's sad that people feel the need to split into denominations
Speaking of which – I am all for discussion about different sides (why I’m doing this now). I like to call myself open-minded (to a certain an extent but like someone quoted earlier “The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry pratchett”). Being forced to defend what you believe makes you truly understand why you believe - or else you realize that you've been wrong.
But for me, the more I study the more I am convinced that there is a God, especially in learning about the many intricacies that make our human bodies run – there’s no way that just happened to fall together!
By the way I love the poem posted by BanSheeCat a while back, I agree – but most people don’t actually live that way! And the quote at the end is hilarious, though I believe in God, I hate clichés!
Loving Life
"Earth's crammed with heaven,
And every bush afire with God;
But only he who sees takes off his shoes;
The rest sit around it and pluck blackberries."
~Elizabeth Barrett Browning, "Aurora Leigh"
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
On the conflict between good and evil. I said earlier that a key to enlightenment is overcoming dualism, without merely substituting it with monism or pluralism. Thinking in opposites (right and wrong, good or evil) makes it difficult to achieve a sense of non-duality. Buddhism does not have a notion of sin because there is no such thing as sin. There is only ignorance and false views. Evil does not spring for the devil, bit from ignorance. There will be no evil left in the world when ignorance and false views are eradicated. Imagine, a world with out conflict.
barefootwonder7, just a question for clarification. If “real Christianity” isn’t about rules and doing the right thing to get to heaven, then what is it about? Your suggestion, that “It’s all based on faith and on admitting that it’s not all about me” doesn’t really stack up. Christianity appears to be all about “me” and my “soul/ego/self” getting to heaven.
Cheers
On the conflict between good and evil. I said earlier that a key to enlightenment is overcoming dualism, without merely substituting it with monism or pluralism. Thinking in opposites (right and wrong, good or evil) makes it difficult to achieve a sense of non-duality. Buddhism does not have a notion of sin because there is no such thing as sin. There is only ignorance and false views. Evil does not spring for the devil, bit from ignorance. There will be no evil left in the world when ignorance and false views are eradicated. Imagine, a world with out conflict.
barefootwonder7, just a question for clarification. If “real Christianity” isn’t about rules and doing the right thing to get to heaven, then what is it about? Your suggestion, that “It’s all based on faith and on admitting that it’s not all about me” doesn’t really stack up. Christianity appears to be all about “me” and my “soul/ego/self” getting to heaven.
Cheers
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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