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Forums > Technical Discussion > fire poi made completely out of kevlar

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_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:well, i got the idea from Tepooka Toys at PLAY, they had prototype fire poi made completely out of kevlar, it was basically a knot for a handle, and they wrapped kevlar around the bottom for the head.
my friend bought 5 meters of kevlar rope at play and we made poi like that too, at the top we had this knot for the handle, at the bottom we had a monkey fist (2 wraps in each direction). these poi worked great, too bad we didnt soak them in paraffin and they were ruined frown.
anyway i might make those again, any suggestions for knots for the handles that will give the handle weight? and do you think they're safer than regular fire because there's no metal (as in i'll be able to do wraps without getting burnt)?



simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:They're rather yummy, i look forward to playing with them smile

whats with the black handle bits? what are they made of?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Bit of sock with a ball in- sock could be white, balls could be glowy- they're big so they are nice and predictable for wibbles- the weight alos makes them a bit more forgiving and properly offsets the weight of the soaked wick. smile


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:hmmm, but when the inevitable happens and the handle is catches fire, it'll perish pretty fast.

i like the fact with the whole kevlar ones that if a handle goes up, you can just stomp on it a couple of times then pick it up and carry on spinning. But if there are socks then they'll be a bit smouldery and falling-aparty


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:yehas thats true- Its been a while and i haven't played with fire for ages, though i did wibble a tester one of these the other day and didn't have any probs, despite dropping them a few times.. I guess i could always get some kevlar wrist guards and use those as the sock...

How did you drop yours BTW? I know you don't throw (at least you never used to?)



_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:they look really nice.
when i soak them how can i stop the fuel from travelling up the rope?



TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:I was looking into that a while ago but never got around to properly testing out my plan (using kevlar string to help stop the fuel wicking up the rope).

At the moment though, you've just got to make sure you don't soak them for ages - just long enough to fill the heads with fuel but not long enough for it to wick up the rope as well.
Obviously only dipping the heads into the fuel helps with that, although it has been known for people to throw the whole lot into the fuel bucket - you've got to watch for that or someone's going to end up with warm hands wink


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:theorising wildly here, but aren't there flame retardent solutions (that set so you don't have to do it too regulally but don't solidify like glue stopping the rope moving), you could soak carefully into handles and let it flow up the rope a bit, stopping before the head obviously.
Then the rope would have hopefully hit it's absorbency limits and not take up too much fuel.


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Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:after short google, something like : http://www.natfire.com/flamex.html or http://www.dharmatrading.com/featured_products/frtqt.html



but you'd have to have separate handles, or covers, or maybe there's a version that's less of a skin irritant out there.



Certainly worth some more research,California banned PBDE's (Poly-Brominated Diphenyl Ethers, according to 2nd link) contained in some retardant liquids, so that's worth avoiding for a start I'm sure.



It may not have to be fire retardent, simply not flammable itself, as long as it helps prevent the rope soaking up the fuel, the kevlar itself is plenty retardant enough.



I'd search more but it's time for sleep smile


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Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:I did look into that a while back Yakumo- my concern was that it might make the ropes properties different and thus actually weaken the material as it was exposed to heat.

In other news, I had my first burn with them last night- a bit different to what I'm used to, but they felt absolutely brilliant- wibbles and throws were predictable and beautifullly weighted with the heads dipped and lit biggrin

Video was taken, so that should be up by the end of the weekend (like I'm going to edit in the day when the weather is like this! biggrin)



_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted: Written by: TheBovrilMonkey


At the moment though, you've just got to make sure you don't soak them for ages - just long enough to fill the heads with fuel but not long enough for it to wick up the rope as well.
Obviously only dipping the heads into the fuel helps with that, although it has been known for people to throw the whole lot into the fuel bucket - you've got to watch for that or someone's going to end up with warm hands wink



dont you need to soak the kevlar for a few hours before the first time?
would soaking the other end in water work?

and i'm also worried about the sock bit catching fire.



TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:No, I never bother soaking them for ages before the first burn.
I'm not going to go into any detail because there are a fair few posts dotted around here that talk about it, but I've never found that it helps.

Soaking the other end in water probably would work, but then you'd end up with a very soggy pair of poi frown

I just tied a couple of knots in the end of mine, rather than making sock + ball handles and they work find for me. I don't throw or wibble mine though so I don't need perfectly balanced poi, I just want something to hold on to smile


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.


Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:First test spin vid is up, get it here:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...ll/fpart/1/vc/1

No problems so far smile



Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:ace vid smile
already said as much in it's own thread smile

fantastic looking poi, hope they last you a good long while, I've still got Bov's here, doh.


Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:They the hangmans noose ones?
Those ones are *really* nice

ubbrollsmile



Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:Bov's ones? yeah, haven't been spinning them, wouldn't want them to deteriorate.

Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin


_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:where can i find instructions on making that knot?


Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:I don't know what it is called- I sort of made it up- its basically a single strand, laid in such a way so that yiou can then braid through it.

I'll show you at play if you bring some rope?



_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:sure, thanks smile


Motley
Motley

addict
Location: UK
Member Since: 9th Oct 2005
Total posts: 434
Posted:I've just uploaded a pic of my new snakes (see gallery) although I must say I would have done it differently if I had seen yours first Chutney, very nice indeed. There are also some pics of my new monkey fists with rope handles, I need to shorten the chains slightly but they throw very nicely so far. Since taking those pics i have put copious amounts of PVA glue on the knots to stop them slipping.

Motley



_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:I made a pair of all kevlar fire poi, there's a picture in my gallery

picture



Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:Not bad smile

Maybe a little short? (hard to judge)
That knot you have is 2/3s the way to the one I tied I think- your way offsets it to one side, min makes the knot wide and flat- you pays ya money etc etc smile

Compare notes at Play then biggrin (and play safe in the meantime- don't store them dipped wink)



_Poiboy_
_Poiboy_

bastard child of satan
Location: Raanana, Israel
Member Since: 12th Jan 2004
Total posts: 1113
Posted:they are a little short, but I like it that way, i dont have to shorten them at all while spinning, and i can do buzzsaw throws.


Mr_Chutney
Mr_Chutney

Tosser
Location: Herefordshire
Member Since: 18th Apr 2003
Total posts: 1711
Posted:How are they new toys working for you Poiboy? Good/ Bad experiences so far?


Page: 12

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