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Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > polyrhythm poi (plus assorted antispin ramblings)

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:this one has not been easy to write up but hopefully some of it makes sense to some of you that are kind enough to read it.



please ask for clarification if its required anywhere - i'm happy to talk more crap or come back and edit the main text to make it clearer if it needs it.



there's a few (hastily filmed) video exapmles dotted around and about - you'll find a clip wherever you see one of these: *

please try and download the videos (right click, save as...) rather than streaming them or my website will stop working hug



and so...





polyrhythm poi

===========




don't let the funny word in the title scare you - this is simply spinning your poi at different speeds.



first of all, you need to know what this is all about so you should understand at least what 'polyrhythm' means and how to tap the most simple polyrhythms out (e.g 3:2).



if that is complete gibberish or you just want to know a bit more about polyrhythms, click here to see a thread that will fill you in smile





i've tried giving workshops on this over the last year and found it near impossible to teach due to the base concepts being alien to most people (and possibly because i didn't have a full idea then of the best way to teach it, but we'll ignore that for now wink).



this thread is the first part of my revised workshop, followed by a description of the notation that i use to describe these patterns and work out new ones.



the aim is to get people to have a go at spinning their poi at different speeds and then to give us a way of describing what we are doing so that we (hopefully) have a better chance of sharing, both here and in the real world smile





okay, let's begin...

everyone's always banging on about learning the basics before the advanced stuff and blah, blah, blah...

funny enough, i think that lesson is especially important when dealing with this area of poi.



there are two major techniques you can employ to vary the speed of your poi:



variable radius and variable speed



variable radius involves moving from say wrist circles to elbow or to full arm circles, thereby moving the poi head further away from the centre of rotation.



variable speed involves adding and taking away speed from the poi head by changing the amount of force you apply to keep the poi spinning (this is by far the harder of the two techniques but allows for far more variation).



for the geeks: the the first technique changes the linear velocity (while keeping angular velocity constant) and the second technique changes the angular velocity - big up the geek massive, seen? wink





here are two basic exercises to illustrate these concepts:



exercise one | variable radius - side circles with 2:1 poi *

spin parallel wrist circles in wheel plane.

now make one of those circles into a long arm circle but try to keep the (linear) speed of the poi constant.

because the long arm poi is spinning in a bigger circle (and therefore travelling along a longer path), you should find that just spinning a larger circle adjusts the speeds, so that the poi spinning wrist circles does two beats for every one beat of the full arm circle.



remember how it feels to tap out a 2:1 rhythm with your hands and concentrate on getting the simultaneous beats (the big circle beat and every other small circle beat) to hit at the same time.



try it on both sides i.e. try the big (slow) circle with your other arm.



things to watch out for:

- don't let the arm spinning the big circle speed up.

- don't put an extra beat in at the top of your big circle (your hand will probably want to do this by itself, especially if you've been playing with flowers a lot).





exercise two | variable speed - side circles with 2:1 poi *

this is most definitely the harder of the two techniques.

to begin with, don't worry about speed ratios and getting the rhythm right.



start by spinning parallel wrist circles in wheel plane again and just play around with speeding up and slowing down one poi whilst keeping the other one at a constant speed.



when you start to feel some control over the independent speed of your poi try this:



spin parallel wrist circles in wheel plane.

just after a beat hits (i.e. just after your poi pass the lowest point on their circles), speed up one of your poi to twice its original speed, and into hitting the beats on a 2:1 rhythm.

you should eventually be able to make this speed adjustment within the time it takes the slower poi to do one beat.



describing that beat by beat:

begin with both poi at the same speed (both hit beats at the same time)

immediately following a beat, increase the speed up one of your poi (hence it does an extra beat on its own).

on the next beat both poi should hit at the same time again and from there on, you should be hitting a 2:1 rhythm smile



try slowing the faster poi back down so that you slow straight into a normal (1:1) speed ratio - really aim to hit those beats.



mastering this technique of speeding up and slowing down poi to change and obtain specific speed ratios over the space of one beat (that's the beats of the slower speed poi, otherwise referred to as the 'base beat') is vital if you really want to play with polyrhythm poi.





playtime

right, once you have those basics down, have a go at putting them to use:



play lots with spinning two static circles anywhere and dropping into and out of 2:1 rhythms over the space of one base beat - remember to try it with both hands.



try the same thing but use the variable radius technique to vary the speed ratios.



try the two basic exercises above with poi 3:2.



spin side circles poi 2:1, and try turning 180 degrees, ensuring that you keep the speed ratio before, during and after the turn.



reels, poi 2:1 *

don't freak out about spinning a pattern!

spinning poi 2:1 reels isn't much harder than poi 2:1 side circles:

spin the poi 2:1 side circles, turn 90 degrees, crossover planes for every base beat smile

try turning with this pattern too.



reels, poi 3:2 *

don't freak out that you're trying a 3:2 pattern!

again, this is easier than it sounds, especially if you do it like this:

for the poi spinning 3 circles, spin one beat in front at the hip, one behind at the shoulder and one behind at hip - the other poi just does normal hip reel circles, one in front at hip, one behind at hip.

spin this so that the beats coincide when the faster poi is doing the front hip circle (the other poi should be hitting the rear hip circle).



for those that like flowers and and fancy a bit of a challenge, try spinning some flowers with 2:1 poi.

don't forget to count your beats at the centre (as the poi passes your arm).

the poi spinning at the faster speed should do twice the number of petals as the other arm does - there are some lovely new flower patterns in there smile





so, you may have noticed that everything so far feels distinctly one-sided - these patterns have all been asymmetric.



that was always going to happen if we describe what we are doing by saying poi 'a' is going at twice the speed of poi 'b' - to get a symmetrical pattern, we would obviously have to swap the speeds of poi 'a' and poi 'b' at some point.



well, hopefully you've been trying some of these variable speed patterns using your weak hand as well as your dominant one because here's an example of a simple symmetrical polyrhythm pattern... smile



my first symmetrical polyrhythm poi pattern - video of ttn variations (described below) here *

spin a forwards butterfly or better, a forwards thread the needle.

now spin one of the poi in a long arm circle, thereby slowing it down so the other poi does two circles in the same time as one longarm circle is completed.

you may find it easier to spin as 3:1.

its fun to see see how high you can get that ratio - spin those wrist circles as fast as you can!

just for a laugh, try and spin it the other way too i.e. spin long arm circles with the slow poi devil



when you have this pattern solid on both sides, try switching which hand does the big circle on every long arm beat.



this is a 2:1 thread the needle smile



the pattern should end up as:



2:1 ttn - right poi spins long arm circle while left spins two wrist circles, when the long arm hand passes the other hand (through the normal ttn hand position) and the beats coincide, switch so that left poi spins long arm circle while right spins two beats. repeat.





so, now we have an idea of what techniques we have to create these patterns, we can finally get on to how to best describe them... smile





here comes the sciencey bit...

first off, feel free to skip this bit for now if you're not interested ubbrollsmile



i have found three methods to describe polyrhythm (x:y) patterns that cover just about all the patterns i can spin (and suggest loads more that should be possible).



i'll quickly summarise them here so we can use them to easily describe the patterns we come up with smile



poi x:y *

the x:y ratio refers to the beat ratio of one poi to the other.

e.g. poi 2:1 means one poi does twice the number of beats that the other does, all of the time.



planar x:y *

the x:y ratio here refers to the beat ratio between two (or more) planes.

e.g. planar 2:1 [back wallplane:front wallplane] means that a poi in the rear wallplane will spin twice the number of beats as one in the front wallplane.

or, to say it another way, when a poi is behind you, it spins at twice the speed as in front of you.



positional x:y *

the x:y ratio here refers to the beat ratio of a certain position(s) in a pattern relative to the remainder of the pattern.

e.g. 3bt weave with positional 2:1 [whenever a hand is crossed over on top of the other arm] means that when a hand crosses over the body on top of the other arm it should be spin at twice the 'normal' speed (or 'double the base beat' if that makes more sense to you).

this results in a symmetrical, 4bt pattern with 3bt arm movements - we like that.





some things to note about these methods of description are:



they are not deterministic by any means i.e. they don't tell you what is and isn't possible, they just describe what's there already quite well.



there are a few patterns that can be described just as well using one of these methods as another.

still, as the moves get more complex, usually one of the methods will yield a far more concise description than the others.



often, attempting to use a method to describe a pattern that it can't adequately describe will lead to a nice variation instead smile



there are a few (complex) polyrhythm patterns that require the beat ratio to be split across particular sections of a plane to describe them completely - this method of description is like a mix of positional x:y and planar x:y but it is far from ideal.



there are a few moves that do not fit neatly into one of these three description methods at all and seem in fact to defy any concise description.

i'm hoping that means i'm missing a more general way of describing these patterns.

i have a good feeling that true polyrhythm poi is closely interlocked with advanced crossover theory.

and maybe that will reveal itself at some point in the future when we have delved deeper... umm





ubbrollsmile



right, that's it meditate



most important with all this stuff - don't forget to smile now and then biggrin





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Awesome stuff coleman, will definitely be playing with this

Thanks

smile


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingd...

Total posts: 7263
Posted:wow That's the best written 'new technique' post I've ever read on HoP

I can't wait to see more at PLAY devil

thankx hug


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted:i just tried to read this and my ears started to bleed. i will print it off and read it in bed. Looks intresting though, thanking you.

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:its evil and must be cast out.... after i spend the summer beating myself with my poi in an attempt to get it right smile

looks like fun coleman smile


back

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jaero
SILVER Member since Jun 2004

jaero

your new best enemy
Location: over the river, through the wo...

Total posts: 246
Posted:I've found the funnest and most useful way of using polyrhythms is in transitions where neither poi is in a locked rhythm. say one poi is in the wall plane and the other in and over head spin. you can spin yourself moving the wall plane to either side of your body, in which case, the overhead plane can move in any speed you'd like. then there are so many other transitions where your right arm will be in the lead, but you need your left hand in the front... or at least want it there. so you'd double speed the left.... I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this one. but I felt the urge to throw my two cents into the pile. take care y'all.

I'll get there too late if I shorten my stride, I'll get there too soon if I find me a ride, I'll never move forward if I try to hide this path that I've troden one step at a time.

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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand

Total posts: 1799
Posted:good times, cole.

i enjoy playing about with polyrhythmic spinning, too... i found it rather easy to fall into this after doing lots of spiral wraps and the like.

its nice to add in those wraps n stalls etc, really makes the poi seem bizarre in their shenanagans...

hooray for asymmetry!

smile


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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DenGad
GOLD Member since Jun 2005

member
Location: Copenhagen, DK, Denmark

Total posts: 45
Posted:Great stuff coleman!



I've been putting a polyrhythm exercise into my basic swings lately just to get my body used to working the hands independently (easier said than done).

Simple forward swing, moving a 3:2 rhythm from right to left side via a brief 1:1.

Of course if you hadn't made this excellent post I would have had to spend 3 hours describing the move :-)


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:thank-you for your kind words matt, dunc, nick and linden hug

jaero - that kind of play is wicked and is just the kind of thing that will lead to a more intuitive understanding of polyrhythm and crossover timing hug

shen - dropping straight into polyrhythms after a stop/stall/wrap is badass brother hug
i found my new favourite move the other day which increases poi shenanigans by at least two times, especially when its dark, but that's another story entirely... wink

dennis - thanks for your kind comments hug
being able to move into easily move into and out of 3:2 timing is lovely and will come in very useful if and when you want to start playing with applying polyrhythms to your other patterns.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1858
Posted: Written by: Dunc


I can't wait to see more at PLAY devil





Can we have a workshop?


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:depends - can i have a t-shirt? wink

i'll definitely be giving the revised workshop that this thread was based on, both at play and at the ejc this summer smile


*runs off to hastily buy a ticket to play*


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Holy crap Cole...you are describing stuff that Nomad started about 6 years ago at a funky gathering in New Hampshire.

Going along with the play aspect, making one giant and speeding up the other gives amazing dimension...but speeding up the giant and slowing the smaller looks cool.

In doing an atom it also looks amazing.

Boleadoras are always spun this way in order to be able to create counter rhythms and let them sound musical.

Nice to see what you've been talking about (though I pretty much got the idea from your other posts).


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:cool - i hadn't even started spinning poi six years ago! biggrin



i was going to say that i can't believe no-one has bothered to write it up in all that time, but from what i've seen over the past couple of years as far as how few people actaully spin patterns like this is concerned, its not so suprising.



boleadoras indeed use lots of polyrhythm patterns and, i should think, and obviously have the big advantage of aural feedback which helps solidify the techniques - being able to hear what beats you are hitting is almost priceless when dealing with muliple rhythms.



interestingly, boleadoras tackle this area of spinning from the opposite direction - the rhythms required almost entirely dictate the patterns, rather than choosing a pattern and then investigating which polyrhythms apply to it (as we tend to do with poi).



do you know if boleadoras has a written notation at all pele?



drum sheet music would work i guess but is obviously far from ideal.



hug





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly..., Uni...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Cole i hadnt a clue what the hell you were talking about....... which either:



A) makes me stupid



or



B) you a complete Geek



Now after reading your post and watching the videos provided ive have come to the conclusion that it is most definatley a combination of the two.



Well Done biggrin



hug


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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ZeroG
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

ZeroG

Friendly Fire Fiddler
Location: Munich, Germany

Total posts: 103
Posted:Interesting ... even though I am only half a year into it, I regularly play the 1 small 1 giant variable with turn, which I've seen on some Vids and think it looks so cool I wonder why so few people play it ...

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Both auralising and internalising are really helpful when working with this.

For example when spinning 2:1 counting:
"1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" - then repeat.

This ensures your timing's on the money by both hearing and saying it in your brain making new connections.

It makes sense as an extention of playing with rhythms and speed step it out with your feel too...

For example stepping outward then feet together then outward to other way...the outward steps could be 1 and the outward and inward the double speed or visa versa.

 Written by:

for the poi spinning 3 circles, spin one beat in front at the hip, one behind at the shoulder and one behind at hip - the other poi just does normal hip reel circles, one in front at hip, one behind at hip.



It may be useful to confirm this is outward circles.

 Written by:

for those that like flowers and and fancy a bit of a challenge, try spinning some flowers with 2:1 poi.
don't forget to count your beats at the centre (as the poi passes your arm).



Can you confirm this is for anti spin?

Thanks for a taking the time to write this down and thanks for the free gift of all your hard work!

I have learnt from it without even leaving my desk! smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Moohaahaa
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

Moohaahaa

enthusiast
Location: In Ger Land, India

Total posts: 382
Posted:Coleman, well done, magnifique etc etc smile hug

So also fair enough if that took you a short while to write up. I shall also be printing and taking home so that I don't burn my eyes on this computer.

3:2 stuff is the most interesting business for me at the moment. I havn't tried none of that, and I'm sure it shall be great.
I think I saw you trying the shoulder-waist stuff a while ago. It's a great idea for getting the rhythm into your brain.

Go team anti-slack wink


Some things you have to see to believe, but
Some things you have to believe in to see.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:cheers mr strugnell - i thought you always knew i was geek-centric? wink

if this stuff confused you, you don't want to know how complicated it gets trying to apply it to double staff!

i'm pretty sure that any true polyrhythm pattern with double staffs must either involve offset crossovers or be carefully planned to make it symmetrical (which evens out the beat-count-per-hand over the period of the pattern).

multiple-rhythm patterns (i.e. 2:1 type moves) are pretty easy to spin with doubles though - i reckon you can already do a bunch of them (or if not, you could learn them in about two minutes without trying very hard at all).

anyway, cheers and that hug





zero g - hello there hug

that move is indeed a lovely one - even more so if you switch the circle sizes on the turns.

see how far you can stretch the difference in speed and spin the small circle really fast biggrin





james - thanks for the clarifications, i'll edit those in now hug

answer to your flower query:

the flower 2:1 business works with *any* flower pattern although, just as with the base flower patterns, some are significantly harder to spin than others...

all concentric circle pattern beats should be counted as the poi pass the centre of the larger circle (as opposed to at the bottom of the small circles).





jonny moo

i love you

come home soo(n)

please

hug



3:2 spinning - i actually doubt that i can do this at anything other than the most basic level (i.e. non crossover patterns)



most of the the more complex moves with a 3:2 polyrhythm turn out to reflect a positional 2:1 or planar 2:1 move more than they do true 3:2.



true 3:2 patterns (i suspect) would fall in to one of the following categories:

- patterns that remain in the same planes for multiples of the 3:2 polyrhythm and then crossover simultaneously

- apply directly to the crossovers instead of the beats (there could be some seriously hardcore patterns in here!)

- or if 3:2 applies to beats as above, employ offset or unusually timed crossovers.



ubbloco





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Indeed Cole, been playing with the polyrhythm flowers a good bit at the weekend. cool

I meant to say can you confirm this is anti-spin....

Sorry to distract a little but can you define concentric circles. I know what you're talking about above applies to anti-spun circles but is there a differnt type of concentric circle? smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:what i talked about was not meant to suggest a specific type of flower.

the idea of 2:1 flowers works with *all* basic flower patterns - normal, anti-spin and goofy.

what i meant was this:
pick a flower (peace), preferably the one you are most solid at spinning.
now spin it with the same arm motions but with one poi spinning at twice the speed.
hence you end up with that hand spinning twice the number of petals smile


'concentric' or 'compound circle' patterns are any of those where there are small circles spun about a larger circluar path.

flowers and fountains are the main move families in this category.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:I understood what you were saying weavesmiley

but the word concentric threw me because I thought concentric meant same centre....



Wikipedia to the rescue...thankfully before I argued wink

"Concentric objects share the same center, axis or origin"



smile

EDITED_BY: DeepSoulSolas (1149179116)


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:oops - my bad then ubbangel

rev coined the term 'concentric' for these patterns i believe whereas nick called flowers 'compound circle patterns' back in the day.

'epicyclic' is the correct word to describe them but i feared i would be shouted at for being too geeky if i suggested using that term redface

i think 'compound circles' suggest what epicyclic means well enough and it was also the original term, so i'll go back, be consistent and use that smile

cheers man hug


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:polyrhythm with double staff? Are you suggesting I actually have to understand all this ratio business? oh god.

Won't it be complicated by the whole one beat / shotgun / triplespin stuff? Plus then you can get into higher beats with hand wraps and fingerspins and vertical palmspins, which makes the whole thing more like the poi patterns...

for instance, doing a one beat in one hand and a figure of eight in the other. They're both moving at the same speed, but the different pattern ensues a different number of beats. Does that count as polyrhythm? Whereas you could fingerspin two staff at two different speeds and that would definately be polyrhythm.

normally I'd speed a staff up for a short period to get into a different pattern. I'm not sure if asymmetric shotguns (only doing a half beat of the shotgun and not the other half) are polyrhythm, or maybe they only have to be in bfly.

maybe I will have to try this out tonight.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Figure 8s and 1 beats are both moving at the same RPM. so no it wouldn't be polyrhythmic... smile



The rules must change a little from Coles 3 types of definitions as a 1 beat for example can occupy 2 planes at a time...



The briefly speeded up double shotgun wouldn't really be polyrhythmic unless you did it continually (in my opinion). A rhythm requires repeditiveness. shrug


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:*i completely agree with everything james just said - late posting by me*



i know at least a couple of double staffers that can do this stuff (plus me ubbangel).



"Won't it be complicated by the whole one beat / shotgun / triplespin stuff?"



precisely devil



multiple-rhythm patterns (i.e. 2:1 type moves) are pretty easy to spin with doubles though, as you described here:



"doing a one beat in one hand and a figure of eight in the other. They're both moving at the same speed, but the different pattern ensues a different number of beats."



a bit of discussion required methinks:

the period of a pattern is how long it takes before it repeats.

if you do 1-beats with both hands, the period might be in the region of of say half a second.

if you then change the pattern to one hand spinning one beats and the other spinning fig8's, and KEEP THE PERIOD CONSTANT (i.e. ensure that the pattern repeats every half a second), the fig8 staff must spin at twice the speed.



that's a 2:1 polyrhythm pattern.



if you do the 1beat and the fig8 at the same speed, you have simply doubled the period of the pattern and ended up with 1:1 move.



albeit a nice geeky move with with the beats unevenly distributed across the front and back wallplanes smile





"normally I'd speed a staff up for a short period to get into a different pattern."



that's exctly how i see staff x:y patterns.



if you just play with constantly transitioning between the patterns you do this for, you'll very likely end up with a lovely new polyrhythm pattern smile





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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xavhan
BRONZE Member since Jun 2005

member
Location: , France

Total posts: 26
Posted:in the same way


one hand : giant
other hand : antispin 3-4-5

http://gallery.instantanes.net/album346/IMG_6907?full=1
br>http://gallery.instantanes.net/albums/album346/IMG_6909.sized.jpg

Pictures by Vicered(juggler) and Rob(photgrapher)


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:okay, thanks for the answers, it means I have to think less. Which is always a good thing. biggrin

spinning a figure of eight twice as fast while spinning a normal speed one beat in the other hand. So you're wanting the period of the pattern to be in tune with the period of the one beat. (I can't tell if that should be true the otherway around.)

but with evenly timed one beat / fig8 combinations, the period is going to be larger than either number periods of the individual patterns. You're having to wait till they come back round to hit a point where they sync again, like a clock. (well maybe not with a one beat and a fig eight, but possibly with a shotgun and a fig eight.)

but that all seems quite silly unless you're doing a weave with it somehow. (I know some symmetric patterns like that)

as for the uneven shotgun. (1.5 beats on one side, 1 on the other.) hmmmm, this gives me a nice isolation idea.... anyway, erm, no, I meant to talk about the moving into a different 'pattern' (though it's really just a new handposition / snake sort a thing) yeah, sounds good, I'll give it a go. Might also be fun to move in and out of quarter time lots too...

DeepSoulSheep:
"The rules must change a little from Coles 3 types of definitions as a 1 beat for example can occupy 2 planes at a time... "

well said.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:xavhan - they are some beautiful images of some great polyrhythm patterns.

thankyou for sharing them hug



word up meg - so, what do you reckon the longest period pattern composed of two fig8 variations that you can come up with is? biggrin wink





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom

Total posts: 5276
Posted:how do I turn on this brain thing again? ubbloco

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Good explanation, Cole. Now to expand on it and figure out all sorts of polyrhythm moves. The only one I really do is a 2:1 wall plane weave but its not really that exciting to me. I do like the patterns Xavhan made with the anti-spin polys, perhaps Ill give them a shot. Also, I wanted to bring up the topic of variable radius spinning and just say that you can break the polyrhythmic flow of that and keep them in time for a different effect as seen here: http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=3


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:I was playin a bit with polyrhythmic flowers at break today, was alot more fun than I had thought it would be. Very meditative. I dunno how it looks, will have to capture a vid and see. One of the things about polyrhythm flowers is that they seem alot more affective for long shutter photographs rather than live spins.

I guess we'll just have to play with it and see smile.

Peace,
- Sui


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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