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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Hi every one! This thread is to ask you what you think about the idea of a world poi association. Poi is a hobby in great expension all over the world and we should soon be thinking about a World Poi Association. This association could contain a great tutorial with the official way of doing moves, the different dansing style and also a registration for school and events. The hobby would then become a sport like baton twirling. We could have national institution and regulations for schools ( like in martial arts) so that poi would evolve faster and would have the credit it deserve. biggrin It you have any idea about how to acheave this plz write them down wink
Cheers
Carl weavesmiley


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Oh hehehe, I cant wait for the uproar that will come at this suggestion, alot of people here like poi to be kept as an unrecognised hobby sort of thing. Alltho I do like your suggestion personally.

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:*coughcoughHoPcough*

*coughcoughSpherculismcough*



erm, i seem to have a terrible cold wink


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:UNMENTIONABLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! spank

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Why would people like it to be unrecognised... The more people who practice it the better it will be for the hobby smile and I personnaly think that this is the best way to take the sport evolve. Does who want it underground dont need to necessarely be part of this Association.. Altough it would make fire poi a safer and more productive hobby.

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:i notice you use the phrases "sport" and "hobby" in the same context..........................very contradictory as poi is not a sport nor shall it be.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Plz if you are against the idea tell me at least why biggrin Being constructive is the best way to make your point.

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:well,

a. there is no 'official' way to do 'moves'... (see what i did there, with the moves? wink )

b. it becomes way more restrictive on an individual's own creativity

c. its completely unnecessary. with bastions like HoP and Sperc, what's the need for an 'association'? the people you get to join wouldn't necessarily be who you're trying to garner. there was a whole debate about poi becoming a sport/competing.... search with the term olympics

smile


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:How would it restrict people... olympic ice skating is artistic and it is stil a sport... Association would allow people to at least have a concrete refference unlike Internet :P Not every one likes to learn on the internet.;)

If you want to evolve with people you need every body to have the same basics ( being a Judo teacher I can assure you that :P)


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:and being an ice skater i can assure you that judging is restrictive smile



[edit]



and how would this association stay current except for the internet? not everyone likes to learn through it, which is why its great to have more people doing it, but everyone has there own style.



(and as a skating and poi teacher, i can assure you that not everyone learns the same things at the same pace. some people are more adept at certain fields than others)

EDITED_BY: fireNice (1147568621)


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
Member Since: 28th Sep 2004
Total posts: 1858
Posted:Rowyn, you should do it. Start out by writing a mission statment and then work on what you can offer people.

If this is the way that people want to learn poi and get in to it more then they will sign up.

I don't see a need for it, and I wouldn't want to join, but you never know.

If you're talking about having teachers, then I think you are wanting something like a juggling club in every big town that can teach poi? Is that right?

Although this is the case now, I can see the point of having a single group who stay in touch and have 1 'brand' if you like. It's an interesting idea, but TBH, it works more or less like that at the moment. Are you part of a juggling club?


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Load of people doesn't want to compete lol This is not the point of doing an association... The point is to get people togetter in a safe kind of way. Under the authority of qualified people that can advise you and give you ideas and ways to make you learn at your rythme. The idea about an association is to make the hobby evolve so that more people practice it and more people know about it. It would also allow people to leran in there own language :P Im french and trust me reading threads in english is not easy.;)

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Hey sym, you are right.. what i am thingking about is an international cooperation between teacher to organize events, meetings, and to share their teaching abilities. I live in Canada and here the is not really such thing as poi schools. There is juggling clubs , but not poi ones... The first step would be to do national Associations. But for that, you need people to teach...So the more people will know about poi, the more the people will be interested about it. association will allow that i think.

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:*there is poi schools in Canada, but not in Quebec province ;P

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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Sixth
Sixth

Devil May Cry
Location: Manchester / London
Member Since: 31st Oct 2005
Total posts: 327
Posted:I like the idea but as with a few previous mentioned issues, poi has evolved akin to martial arts but with a different beat.

if you look at different spinners, everyone has their own unique style & approach for example:

Tone: speed on poi
Liz: good at linking combos...well better than me:D
Dave: fluid like water (i was gonna say ballet dancer *ahem* and that was quoted from someone else...i forget whoubblol)
Me: General monkeying with combining gymnastic moves with staff and getting burnt in the process for which i respectfully deserve.

What you have read above is'nt simply "just spinning" but what people don't realise ...I'm gonna quote a question Tone asked me...

"Do you think you can tell someone's personality from their spinning?"

The answer is yes if your very perceptive and theres more to it. When anyone is spinning, theyre holding an extension of their body. Through their movements, is the display of their soul within that time and space.

So if spinning was to be rationalised, the result would be tainted souls.


I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:i agreewith you, but an assiciation wouldn't change that.. I would just help people to progress in there own kind of way with a reference of what other people does to inspire them...

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:which is what this and other websites do...

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:
I have a few questions...
 Written by:


Under the authority of qualified people



How much authority would the teachers have? Who would they answer to?
How would they get their qualifications to teach the official way of spinning?
Who determines what the qualifications involve? Who does the teacher assessments?
Who sets out the definitions and lists of poi moves?
Who determines the official way of spinning?
What happens to the people who don't spin in the official way? If they join the association, would they be encouraged to change the way they spin in order to comply with the official way of spinning?

 Written by:


The hobby would then become a sport like baton twirling.



Would you want it to become a very rigid and highly stylised sport, rather than the very diverse hobby it is now? Have a look at the IJA to see a direction in which juggling's moving at the moment - is that the kind of thing you're after?
Why d'you reckon that a structured system of order is needed for it to evolve? - it's been evolving quite well for some time now, and it doesn't look like it's going to stop - what do you think needs changing?

To be honest, I spend the majority of my waking life conforming to various structured systems, be that at work or in society in general. I quite like having a hobby that's almost completely unrestricted and would heavily oppose any schemes based on regimenting one of the few areas of my life in which I have so much freedom to do what I want, in whichever way I feel like doing it.

Having said that, I think that if you're really serious about doing it, then folloing Sym's suggestion above of writing a mission statement is the way to go - even just writing it will help clear up a lot of details and help get things straight in your own mind as to what you're after.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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kenpo23
kenpo23

Member
Location: Chestnut Hill, MA
Member Since: 14th Feb 2006
Total posts: 6
Posted:hey all.... having a 'world association' for poi would just restrict people to do things in a certain way. i'm a newbie and i've leaned alot from many differernt sites due to the fact that they all teach in different ways. i've a black belt in karate and know only one way to do that...thanks to being in an 'association' for karate. i'm thankful that i can learn poi from many different aspects and i hope it stays that way.... beerchug bounce

Success it the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. Churchill

Tell me, and I will listen. Show me, and I will understand. Involve me, and I will learn. Lakota Proverb

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I have never been much of a "joiner" of associations and organisations. And that is why I love spinning. It is informal and generous and organic and warm and innovative and flexible and inclusive and....

An association would have stopped me ever starting this in the first place. I don't see the need to formalise and standardise everything in the world. So, no, I would not be in support of an association. Good on you for expressing an idea and being enthusiastic about it, but I just can't agree with it.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:An association wouldnt stop anyone doing anything if they didnt want it too. Who here swims often? Swimming is an olympic sport, yet for thosr not involved in that side what has it being a recognised sport done to affect you? Nothing, you go to the pool and swim dive, jump, however you like, and you enjoy it.

The same would happen with poi, we ewill allways continue spinning however we like whenever we like, how we like at the meets through hop, or with friends of your own, or at clubs and partys/raves ect.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted: Written by: Brit_Joe



An association wouldnt stop anyone doing anything if they didnt want it too.





Just a point of clarification. I didn't mean that a world poi association would have been standing there waving a stop sign and wagging its finger at me wink . What I meant was that I would not have chosen to do poi if it had a formal organisation.



That is a personal choice. I am not a fan of formal organisations in my private life (as someone else here said, I have a hell of a lot of structure in my working life).



By its nature, a formal association would establish formal "authorities", it would have people in authority and people outside of it. No matter how gently they wielded that authority, it would be a form of exclusion, of those within the group and those outside. Yep, I know that still happens, but I would argue that a formal association would strengthen that at the expense of the fluidity, challenge and growth we currently experience.



Edit: To address Brit_Joe's analogy about swimming. Yep, there are a lot of people who swim. But if you think about it, people make a distinction between playing around in a pool and swimming laps. As soon as you get into swimming laps (the formal part of it), you start to deal with "strokes" and "techniques" and "times". It is far more structured and there is a certain elitism associated with "proper swimming".



Ok, there is still some room for innovation, you only have to look at the changes in the way people start races (swimming half the pool underwater), but there is a recognised "right way" and "wrong way" of doing things.



Same with spinning. I am sure that people would still play. But there would be a similar elitism about "proper spinning" and there would be right ways and wrong ways. It would take longer for changes to work through as there would have to be formal approval (no matter how informal) of those changes. Imagine the huge debate around whether wibbling could be legitmately allowed to be included as a spinning discipline.

EDITED_BY: Rozi (1147606145)


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:I see what your getting at, but jsut because there is a formal organisation out there somewhere, it wouldnt be hard to steer completly clear of it andnever have anything to do with it whist still spinning poi (or doing whatever hobby you have allready hasa recognised organisation)

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:smile Sorry about that, I editted my post whilst you were posting. See the edit above smile

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:on a more general point what would an organisation do that isnt already done in an informal way by hop/spherculisum?

teaching wise there are lots of people who learn off hop and lots of classes etc organised through hop

there is a 'standadized' set of moves (in a **very** loose meaning) - most people on hop/spephculisum etc agree on move names etc

we're all registered here and what good would being a regisitered spinner do you?

about the only real advantage that a world poi organisation would have would be towards professional spinners as a proof of fire competancy etc. but even that would probably be better issued by a local fire dept. with 1st aid by a registered 1st aid charity

as for turning poi into a sport thats something i really dont want. anyway - how would you? the reason baton twirling can be judged is that there are a set series of moves that you are allowed etc. similarly with figure skating (from what i remember) there are certain things you can and cannot do

and uniqely for poi there is a much larger variation in moves - if you watch gymnasts with ribbons or balls etc they use it to accent their movements - poi is completly differnt - you use the body to accent the poi

anyway

personnaly i think its a nice idea but fairly redundant - also i disagree with poi being made into a sport - it just wouldnt work tongue


back

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Pink...?
Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There
Member Since: 6th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6140
Posted:I agree with what Bovril said. How do you say who is qualified? How would you set up the qualifications?

Also, would you charge people to be in this association? How will you fund it?
I personally wouldn't pay any money to join any association about poi.

Also, if your association does come about, I wonder what impact it will have on gigs for people? Will it be that people will think only people in the association will be qualified to spin?

Also you mention regulating schools? What set of regulations will you bring in? That you have to spin poi one way or another?

You also say that it "would just help people to progress in there own kind of way with a reference of what other people does to inspire them.." I personally think i managed to develop just by going to meets and seeing other people spin, and asking for their help. I can't see how an association is going to make that any better?

Also you mention sport a lot. Do you really think poi is like a sport? I think of it more like object manipulation (juggling or the likes) with dance. I wouldn't want it to be competitive as sport is, or even how Juggling is at times. I like the fact we don't compete (except things like CoL which isn't really that competitive), that we don't have things we can be judged on, that it's all down to personal taste and views. I mean do you think someone who can just spin the 3 beat and butterfly but dances smoothly and makes it look pretty, is any worse or better than someone who just stands still and does a hybrid?


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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Kieron
Member

Member Since: 20th Jul 2005
Total posts: 232
Posted:I highly doubt there is demand for an association or that many would join it. Without demand, an association would't work.

"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie

"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah

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the_poier
the 1337 poier
Location: england
Member Since: 7th Jul 2005
Total posts: 346
Posted:I personally think an association would be...horrible? Having a set way to do moves would destroy some fluidness and i also like the fact that poi is an unknown hobby. The fact that people dont see it much and cant do it themselves makes it all the more impressive when they do see it. i know alot of poeople who are relatively good at poi but not REALLY good and when people see it they are very impressed and so having poi done by lots of people as more of a sport would in someways be bad for spinners or atleast that is how i feel.

ive got a fuzzbox and im not afraid to use it
R.I.P. gayfest

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:Hi guys, I can see that your main fear about an association is loosing your freedom to spin how you like... This as nothing to do with an association. An association wouldn't make it a sport ( my mistake to have misexpressed myself im french wink ) It would help bringing poi to a level where everybody could learn the basics the same and evolve togetter by sharing. What i am talking about is all about sharing with each others.
I a strutured kind of way. Hop and spher does a great job by sharing the information, but why wouldn't it take part of an association.. Why is there Tai-chi associations... Why id the Yoga associations... because if you want to be taken seriously you need to have solid basis for everybody. Who would chose what the moves are I would suggest the most experienced of all of us.. the winners Of Cols for example. What i am trying to gatter here is a way to make learning poi more accessible. Who would be the teachers... Probably peoples that would have shown that they can master the basics and different danse styles. How would i be found... Well Hop could be the internet part of it smile and maybe do an alliance with Spher. For the tutorials. Also For the teachers part, Teachers would be able to demonstrate moves and different way and rythm to do them. I would also give a place to people to meet and a strutured way to organize events. I can see that you guys kind off fear the terms :competitive ans sport.: Whats wrong with that... Pink You say you wouldn't want poi to be judged...but you like Col kind of way... why would it be diffenrent then col Col is a great way to see the competitive side of poi. I wouldn't want to change that. You seem to all see an association as a restrictive manner. Why is that...I understand that in life there is alot of structure and poi is for many people a way to get out of that. What if an association would allow people to get permits to spin at places that they cant right now because there is no structure that can be relied to. The term association i chose is all about people getting togetter to organise learn and have fun with each other.. Why do you see it as a bad thing? Pink the moves are done how ever people like to do them. But it would allow at least to have a name for the way its done.. in many languages.. There is no worst or better way to spin but the basics are still important to learn. ( way to do moves and basics of moves are 2 different things.) Poier I dont see how having more people into poi would be a bad thing...Yes people who think they are different because of poi would have a shock , but i personnaly think that the more people that does something the more chance you have to find people that see poi the way you do. What i am trying to do here is offer a debate. I think that i the structured world we live in an association of spinner would be a good idea and it shoulds start by forming clubs in different towns. So that teachers could get togetter and organize stuff.
There is no demand for a poi association because it as not been discussed yet... I see it as an opportunity and thats why i wanted to share my ideas with you wink
Cheers


what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:In the future could you please space your response out better, its a bit hard to read. smile

Just speaking to the bit about the col's:

They are not representative of who's a 'better' spinner or not, they are judged based on the video entry. Loads of excellent spinners don't enter because they either don't have a camera, didn't shoot in time, or simply couldn't be bothered to do it.

the rest I couldn't really understand in that giant paragraph wink


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Rowyn
Rowyn

member
Location: Boucherville, QUbec
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2004
Total posts: 43
Posted:lol sorry im at work right now wink Its true whats you are saying, but then again.. If somebody doesn't do anything to get recognised... How can we know..

what ever happen, pain willl not be the end.

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