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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Basically, I'm trying to figure out to what degree it is worth it. Most americans with postgrad degrees in fact do not catch up in earnings to those with just undergrad degrees. Nonetheless, those with undergrad degrees do best. But like... That includes sales and such things. Things that I'm not going to be doing, so much. Nonethless, I am also trying for a fairy lucrative field... but I'm not going to be working 60 hours a week either, so I'm still limiting myself.

This in mind, is it really worth it to gather crippling debt to go to university? I mean I am applying for a lot of scholarships and all, I will be (I hope) working on the breaks, but its still a lot of money and debt is very limiting.

I just can't figure out how to measure it. It will be a lot of fun as well, but it does take time away from my life, and creates limits over a long period of time..

I think I'm just confused. Does anyone have any suggestions for clarifying the issue, even?


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Unfortunately no.

At the moment the Government in Australia has just introduced legislation to increase the FEE-HELP Scheme to enable students to borrow up to $80,000. This stands apart from the HECS system. Only a certain number of places at Australia Universities are subsidised by the government. These places are known as HECS funded, and they have been the norm for the majority of University students since the scheme was introduced. Debts are still incurred by these students, but not to the same level as part of their degree is covered by the government.

As the government reduces funding for universities there are less HECS funded places available. Universities introduce full-fee paying places and/or courses, especially postgrad areas (I am currently studying in a full fee paying course). Students can borrow money from the government to pay for these courses through FEE-HELP (or PELS, the postgraduate version). As discussed, the threshold has just been dramatically increased.

There is massive potential to incurr debt which will impact on the ability to do things like get a loan for a house, car, or personal reasons such as having a family. With credit card debt amongst young people already at dramatically high levels you have to wonder about the population's ability to service this debt.

As to a personal situation, is incurring such a debt worthwhile if it gets you where you want to be career-wise? Well that has to be an individual choice. You really have to weigh up whether a uni-degree will get you what you want and where you want (another interesting impact about moving to a full-fee paying system is that it gives young people less chance to change their choices, due to the financial obligation they have begun. The "well I may as well see it through, even though I won't do anything with it" mentality.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Pogo69
SILVER Member since Apr 2006

Pogo69

there's no charge for awesomeness... or attractiveness
Location: limbo

Total posts: 3764
Posted:my advice... such as it is...

over and above earning enough to survive comfortably, finances should have very little to do with how u choose a career and the education you will need to make it happen.

5, 10 years ago, that's how I determined my path in life, allowing myself to persue what I thought was going to make myself and more importantly, my family, happy... but $$ have not one single thing to do with happiness.

best advice (for me) that I've seen with respect to work is to answer this question:

"would I do it for nothing?"

if the answer is yes, then it's likely a very good choice. being a computer programmer certainly pays well, but I know I'd be much happier if I'd continued with (and finished) my research masters degree and earned a small fraction of what I now do, doing research in a university somewhere....


--pogo (pat) [forever and always]

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Gnor
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth

Total posts: 5814
Posted:I talk to my kids about lots of options open to them in their lives jobwise. When I studied apprenticeships were the poor relations. Now these people are laughing.
Mechanics, carpenters brickies, sparkies are all earning very good money.
What are you planning to study, can you see yourself in that feild after 10 years? Will it lead to what you want?


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:I think a lot depends on what field you would ultimately like to be in. You've mentioned something lucrative, so you at least have a pretty good idea of what you'd like to go to college for. If it's any sort of technical (i.e. not being a secretary, or repair type person), then these days some sort of college education is pretty much required.

Besides scholarships, there are also federal work-study programs that you may be eligible for. These have you working some usually easy job on campus part-time to help you afford you school bills. Also, the loan rates for student loans are usually better than for other types of loans, and you don't have to start paying them back until you are done with Uni and supposedly have a job. As long as you are in school (even grad school), you can keep deferring the payment without penalties.

Have you looked at Uni's that maybe are cheaper than some others? State schools are often cheaper than private schools, and most state schools will give you a discount if you live in state before you enroll for x amount of time (frequently 1 year). If the state school you want isn't in NY, then maybe you could move to another location before applying to a school you like to reduce your tuition.

Since you've mentioned post-grad education, I'll also mention that many PhD programs in the sciences actually pay you to attend grad school, so you only acrue debt you had from undergrad. For me, getting a PhD was the only way to succeed in statistics. Very few Uni's offer a bachelor's in it, and most places that will offer you a job in stats require at least a master's degree. So, grad school it was. My by-passing the master's degree, I was able to get the PhD completely paid for by the Uni as well as getting a stipend on top of that.

Just a few things to think about, anyway.


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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:hey hun i know i could tell you this via msn but it would more than likely end up as meaingless babble so ill leave it here for you to read at yout leasure smile

the first thing you really want to ask yourself is whether you'll regret not doing uni.

secondly are you motivated for it (and considering all the work ive seen you put into it id say you are)

so finally are you willing to deal with the debt.

you say that it will take out a lot from your life, but, while your at uni you can gather more skills and expierence. i know you already work in a vets and thats the sort of job that, even at the end of uni you dont want to go into research, will benifit from you being at uni

also on a slightly more biased outlook - come to the uk biggrin

hug ill try and talk to you more about this soon but personally i think you'd regret it heavily if you decided to stop now kisspeace


back

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Hey guys, well,

first- two problems with work-study.
1. I'm going to be an american student going to school in the UK. However, when I was an american student going to school in america i couldn't find a work-study job, so, since I am allowed to be employed as an overseas student in the UK, I'll leave it at that, and....
2. I can't work during the semesters. I've tried it. Its why I dropped out in the first place. Its just killer. I could maybe do like five hours a week or something (provide some stability and beer money). But I can't put in 20 hours a week and still study properly, and I can't have that kind of how am I going to live stress and still study properly. This has been deduced by experiment.

Really the big problem right now is that I can't seem to get approved for ANY loans. I have no cosigners, and altho I have fairly decent credit, there is an imperfection based on a mailing address problem (I'm so mad about it, it never would have happened if I'd done things the way I wanted to, grrrrr!!!!!).

Anyway I can get like uber credit cards and stuff, way more than people older than me who earn more than me, but student loans are really not showing up for me... also it hurts that its an international school because a lot of banks won't deal with that. I've already exhausted whats being offered of my stafford loans- I'm looking for additional here, the money that "my family is providing" per the govt.

As for the university I'm quite set on it... American uni programmes and me finally just had a divorce, basically, and canadian ones don't seem to be different enough. There were two programmes I liked in the UK, York and Cambridge, well I'm a wuss I just applied to york wasn't any problem tho. Its also got a cheaper col, and it is marginally cheaper than UCSC altho if exchange rates stay this high, very marginally. I will say however that the tuition is somewhat less with the previous rates...

As for is it what I want- well- there are several things I would be very happy doing. The one I am strongest about, my primary, is best realized so far if I can fund it myself, asking for a marriage (of things, ideas, careers)- one thing I have decided I will put off until I am older, so, that leaves two- one I have already done most of the studying for, it is interesting, it does pay well, it does not offer a lot of flexibility for hours/locations... and... I am a little nervous about it as a career, it is a little more esoteric than I think (at least american) workforces are ok with usually, that leaves this, which I have not done any of the schooling for, is interesting, pays well, has flexibility of locations at least, and more flexibility of hours, I don't know if it will be as much as I want.... so it is a gamble, a little bit, trying to mix things and do many things I want not just one... but it is the most likely gamble, if I can afford it...

Now that I am moving on to a higher demand job with no education there is always the part of me that says making more than you spend and having no debts... it might even out to a very similar thing, and also lets me focus more earlier on my primary, possibly... tho I am less sure about staying in a job like my current one for many years! But it is something to consider....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: Kyrian



Most americans with postgrad degrees in fact do not catch up in earnings to those with just undergrad degrees.





This statement so radically depends on what field you're going into that it's essentially useless. As Sprite said it depends on the field, some fields use it, some don't. Also, that 'statistic' is skewed by the fact that many Americans don't get a post graduate degree simply to get higher wages.



And some fields need it. A graduate degree in education probably costs less than $10,000 and gets the teacher a $17,000 pay raise PER YEAR in my school district. In the medical field, the difference between the paycheck of someone with an M.D. and someone without is even more radical.



I think you absoulutely must figure out what you want to DO with an advanced degree before you get one.



I mean, you wouldn't spend money on chef school and then whine that it didn't help you in your bus driving career at all. Same with an advanced degree.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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linden rathen
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 6942
Posted:NYC - why not do post grad for fun wink

back

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sunbeam
SILVER Member since Nov 2001

sunbeam

old hand
Location: Madrid

Total posts: 1032
Posted:I cant help with financial advice, but as a highly in-debt student I really recommend going to university, for the experience more than anything else. Studying in Spain has made me realise that the English system is really quite good compared to others, although I realise it is expensive for foreign students. Of course you have to think about the future but make sure you are going to do/study something you enjoy otherwise there really is no point. There is no way of telling what will happen in the future and if you have people who are willing to support you financially (even if they cant pay the whole thing) and emotionally you are a lot better off than some people who dont. Most people i know who didnt go to uni regret not going even if they are in really good jobs now and earning good money.

if you are creative/willing you can find casual ways of making money over or under the table... (that sounds a bit dodgy but i did mean flyering for clubs and stuff rather than selling your body ..lol)

Also studying in a foreign university is one of the easiest ways to move to a new country and integrate almost immediately... kind of a nice safe institutionalised environment to start your adventures from....

good luck with it all. And remember if you really want it you will find a way of making it happen.

biggrin
eva


"I don't take drugs. I am drugs" - Salvador Dali

sunny

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: linden rathen


NYC - why not do post grad for fun wink



Actually, I am. Well, I'm not. I'm doing it for profit. We get pay raises every 15 credits I take.

smile


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:havent had time to read this thread but will do tomorow. for now, heres my two cents. hope im not repeating anythign already said or missing the point altogether.

 Written by: sunbeam


Most people i know who didnt go to uni regret not going even if they are in really good jobs now and earning good money.




This is true. I've never been to university and did very badly in my High School/A Level/Leaving cert or whatever your equivalent is. I did as bad as you can do and still pass. 1% away from total failure.

I have a really good job and at twenty five i have realised my career ambition. Five year plan. Who would have thought. But here i am and i know exactly what job i want when im thirty.

Yes I do regret not going to college. More because i missed all the fun while i was at work (i had an accountant when i was twenty) and sometimes because companies hold it over me at pay reviews. But there are concessions. I am five years ahead in the rat race. I've had to battle for every inch of every promotion with my wits. And i've learned an incredible amount along the way.

But whatever way you go. Dont be fooled into thinking your going to avoid debt... They might not give you a student loan when your at work (though they gave me one ubblol ) but they will give you a Credit Card, A Car Loan, A Mortgage and all the rest...

I went to college at night time. i didnt finish the course and it took me four years to pay the loan...


Love is the law.

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sunbeam
SILVER Member since Nov 2001

sunbeam

old hand
Location: Madrid

Total posts: 1032
Posted:its true, plenty of people who never went to uni are up to their eyeballs in debt...

"I don't take drugs. I am drugs" - Salvador Dali

sunny

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Yeah, its always a question of is it worth it (often no).

I just don't know the answer in this case....

I would love to have the "uni life" tho, for a bit, I oculdn't when i was younger.

I'm just confused atm...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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