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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted:I have done a few searches for this and cant find anything. I can do normal barrel rolls, can some explane how to do the butterfly one or even better give me a link to an existing thread. thank you. biggrin

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:They can be done, but explaining them is beyond me right now at work as they're a bit tricky. But they're sort of a cheat, one poi will be threaded through the middle so travels inbetween the other poi and the arm that's holding that other poi. There's not an awful lot of space there though, nor time to get them past each other...

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Here is link for video where Rev is doing butterfly wall plane inversions.

They can be done wall plane with inversions from side
to side and split the butterfly helps a lot.

Barell roll is static, where this move is not.

lightning,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:link doesn't work

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:i just tried to write a description of how to do this that made sense, but i couldnt. so i made a vido of them which is http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10663
< there ...

that might not help either your hands seem to have to move pretty quickly through the move..

good luck smile


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:got it, the link, not the move, so don't have the move

Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted: Written by: oli


i just tried to write a description of how to do this that made sense, but i couldnt. so i made a vido of them which is http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10663
< there ...

that might not help either your hands seem to have to move pretty quickly through the move..

good luck smile



cheers oli and spiralx, helped me understand a bit better. i see and understand it, but doing it will be a different matter, i will try though, i think this moves looks amazing. the video has helped alot, now i'm gonna try reply it as many times as poss in slow, very slow motion. ubbloco


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Oli, Is that a split time butterfly there?

Also, sorry to be a pain in the ass, but is it possible to have a better quality, longer video, where we can see better what you're doing? Maybe spinning even slower if you can...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Disc0


annoying boy
Location: Sweden

Total posts: 160
Posted:seems to be split time, i have trouble imagining what it would look like in same time.

spinning slower isn't needed, if you got a good media-player that has slow-forward-playing features (like vlc got...)

apologies for bad grammar and spelling.


fire is just light and heat.
it's you friend!

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I'm sure there's a video of T&B doing it somewhere....

I'll go make one too I think smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Acciaio
SILVER Member since Jan 2006

Acciaio

Tangled into my spins


Total posts: 187
Posted:Thanx oli your video open my mind in butterfly inversions!!!
Now I can go to try atoms in inversion is the same principle or I don't understand it???

Thanx

Acciaio devil


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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:Arse! I can't get the video to upload to HoP frown It's definately small enough to fit too....poo



Any one wanna host it for me? It's 2meg

EDITED_BY: Dunc (1146234098)


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted:dunc, try www.youtube.com

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:I can host it mate, or Play can wink

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York

Total posts: 3354
Posted:ditto

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane

Total posts: 3044
Posted:are they any handy vids/threads that just show basic barrel rolls and perhaps some variations? im pretty sure im doing them right - at least how i visualise those descriptions - but it would be good to check.

Searching for threads revealed some bewildering theoretical poi discussions/debates ill maybe try to comprehend when i understand more of the basics - a simply video would be infinitely more useful.



thanx.

E ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1146370133)


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I remember Icon posted a barrel roll video about 2 years or so ago at least, but I've searched and can't find it in moves or video forum. I'm sure if you pm him he'll be able to give you a link or bump the thread perhaps smile

Right I've tried emailing it but my computer seems to hate uploading of any sorts. I even thought perhaps it just took a while cuz it was 2meg so I set it to run when I went to bed and when I got up 6 hours later it was still arsing about, so I'll bung it onto CD and upload it to play or into my gallery when I'm back in work on Tuesday.

Stoopid f#cking computer...grr....


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted:cheers to all the help, i've cracked it now! got it going both ways like your vid oli, cheers!

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:hate to throw a wrench into the mix... but here goes

anyways dentrassi there's some basic follow time "barrel roll" inversions in my "fuse" vid at www.firecircus.com

however the moves oli is doing are almost the exact same thing as bfly inversions so learn them cause they are fun, but technically they aren't inversions, they are thru-wrapped inside butterflies smile


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:p.s. feel free to totally ignore that BTW wink

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted: Written by: arashi


.. but technically they aren't inversions, they are thru-wrapped inside butterflies smile



HAhaha, i'm guessing this is the terminology you and rev have been, ahem ...discussing...

Can't view those vids so i can't say either way. But i see how there may be a subtle variation between an inversion and a thru wrap... however that seems exceptionally subtle difference to me, especially in a move that goes as quick as this.

Anyhoo, excellent patterns, open up a whole can of worms. (plenty on the dvd wink )


m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:arashi, why is the move in that video not inverted, why is it inside? what is a butterfly inversion in your terms?

you can do that move with no thru wraps, it is just slightly easier with thru wraps.. possibly...


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted:whats the main differerence between thru wraps and inversions, i see them as the same thing almost. correct me please if i'm wrong but i thought an inversion was when one was inside and the other was on the outward side. this is how i see thru wraps being done. confused2
EDITED_BY: nickwidd (1147127763)


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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I guess it helps to describe the wrap part as aposed to just "being inside"
Inverted Wrap, thru wraps, I guess they mostly describe the same thing, although not always ie outside to outside thru wraps

I just uploaded (now my computer is finally let me move big files) a butterfly barrell roll tutorial to my gallery HERE

Let me know what you think smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Good vid dunc, and the first one i've ever managed to grab from the hop gallery. Never worked for me before and i'm not sure why that one worked but it's all good.

Anyhoo. It's interesting how you do them cos you use long socks and there's definitely a couple of thru wraps going on (the poi bend in the middle)

Thats i bit different to how i do them. I use shorter poi and kinda isolate around the arm that's in the way. ie the poi don't bend (much) in the middle. My wrists do the bending instead. This i think is the subtle difference arashi is talking about. But since i rarely know what arashi is talking about i'll not put words in his mouth.

Also i move the position of my hands a lot more than when you do it. You make it look too damn easy wink

Nickwidd, i described what i think the difference between thru wraps and inversions a little while back in this thread or the butterfly hyperloop thread, i'll dig it out.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York

Total posts: 3354
Posted:okay, i'm confused because the video said hyperloop, but the poi aren't actually wrapping around each other..

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:gorgeous vid dunc, such clarity! i can actually see what you're doing!
well i'll give this another try, i dunno lessee if this works this time.

let me preface that these are just words, but if you understand where i'm going then you may see why i feel the need to differentiate between the two concepts. the idea of polarity to me is the crux of the theory, and the theory is manifested in MY poi at least but i'm open to having the theory proven wrong!

1) first would be to get you to repeat the move you are doing so that as soon as you exit the isolationy part you go right back in to the pattern, like as your black poi unwraps and goes around, bring it right back around your left wrist and do the same with the white. this would be a barrel rolled inside, showing that the barrel roll isn't what makes an inversion. and if you can do that then the next paragraph will make even more sense (i hope tongue)

2) even without that maybe you can see this: by being close to each other, your hands are forming a hypothetical pole between them, which you need for an inversion to happen, but the whole pattern is rotating on an axis parallel to the pole between your hands instead of rotating directly around the pole itself. IOW the larger pattern may be flipping around the pole, in the barrel roll, but the actual planes of the poi are not facing the pole. if you did the same move with your hands facing 90degrees left or right, with the poi in the same planes, it would be inverted because the planes would then be facing contrary to each other AND revolving around the pole itself, rather than alternating facing forward and backward and revolving parallel to the pole.

*
now that same pattern if done as an airwrap, by using your chains instead of the wrists, will come out as an 2nd degree _airwrap_ and not as any kind of hyperloop. freeze the knot midway through it's course and look at it, it will be a twist (thru, airwrap) instead of a tangle (inversion, hyperloop). it's a second degree so you have to go all the way around before it comes undone, unlike a simple follow time airwrap which just comes across the pole and comes undone.
but that's a whole other thread wink


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Mr_widd


Mr_widd

eat my face before i eat yours
Location: Torquay, UK

Total posts: 253
Posted:Cheers for the video Dunc, its great. Really helps and you wave made me feel like i really had to pay attention as if it was a childrens show about to start. wave I have been having so much trouble trying this with long poi and have been doing this the same way as TheWibbler has described his version of this move with using the wrists and more or less icolating the poi around the arm. I tried it again with the longer poi the way in which you showed dunc and made more of a wrap with the poi. I can see the difference between the two moves much more now as it is very subtle to begin with.
I have been able to do duncs version, the thru wrap, more or less straight infront of me, where the version i feel oli and thewibbler seems to go from left to right and back again which i have done before. I am going to work on both as they both seem to be completely different to me now.
Arashi, i am still trying to get my head around what you have wrote there but i get the main jist of what your theory is. I must appoligise to all for being slow to understand much of the theory of poi as it all seems new to me. I just did what i saw before and learnt that way. Recently posting on this board has opened my mind to endless possibilities.


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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted: Written by: fireNice



okay, i'm confused because the video said hyperloop, but the poi aren't actually wrapping around each other..





redface redface redface redface



Ooops!! Sorry must have had hyperloops on the brain, I've edited the description now to be Butterfly Barrell Roll (with thru wraps)



Matt - I used to isolate them nearly all the way round but I got lazy ubbangel And long socks are purely because I have long arms. Remember our sock comparison at berpoi? I think mine doubled the length of yours!! It took about 8 more knots so we could wibble pass ubblol

As for the hands moving lots/not a lot. I think that's because I let the thru wrap do the work for me where as the full isolations takes a lot more effort. I'll try to post a iso vid too to show the difference if I can still do them that is!!



Arashi......awesome points my friend. I think I agree whole heartedly with what you've written about the key differences between the two different executions. AND I now understand what you mean about the "inside" version, I've tried it a few times in the past when trying to keep it continuous but not for a long long time. I think I'll try it again at the weekend smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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faith enfire
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

faith enfire

wandering thru the woods of WI
Location: Wisconsin

Total posts: 3556
Posted:ooooh
i still can't do it but i know what you're talking about now bounce bounce


Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed

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