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Forums > Social Discussion > Public consultation on possible badger cull (UK)

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:DEFRA are currently undertaking a public consultation (ending March 10th) with regards to a cull of the protected Eurasian Badger, to prevent the spread of bovine TB.



Scientific opinion (including that of DEFRA's own advisors) seems to be largely opposed to the cull, saying that it would be ineffective or counter-productive.



I'll give you a smattering of links and let you make your own minds up.



It seems unlikely that they'd go ahead with a cull, but not impossible.



Vets want badger cull to halt TB (BBC)



Defra deny preparations for cull have already started (BBC)



Latest findings show that killing badgers causes more cattle tuberculosis than it prevents (The-Scientist.com)



Stop The Cull website


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:It's just madness.

All it is is giving in to pressure from a misguided and incorrect pressure group.

Save the Badgers. peace


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:eek mad mad2

poor badgers frown


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:If we all send this letter to Defra, it'll help make a difference.
Non-Https Image Link
Don't worry Badgers, we'll not let those bast-ards kill you! biggrin


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr

Total posts: 4217
Posted:who remembers badgergirl the tv show? i do biggrin

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:" badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, badger, mushroom, mushroom, badger, badger, badger, badger, snake, snake woooooooooooo it's a snake" ubblol


personaly i'm not for or against a cull, it will be done on the grounds of public interest what ever my view. TB is a nasty illness be it bovine or the multi drug resistant human variaty. badgers themselfs are viscious creatures and i would'nt want to cuddle a wild one but i do think if it's going to cause a lot of other animals to suffer then it needs to be attended to.


sorry if i sound cruel but i lean towards pro hunting ( as humanely as possible)


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Ravehead, that's a fair enough point of view if evidence showed that the cull would be effective in reducing bovine TB.

However, as I stated in the first post, that isn't the case.
Written by: The Scientist
findings suggest "highly complex transmission dynamics." In areas where culling took place, badgers ranged over greater distances. Culling appears to disrupt social groups, and the increased mobility potentially leads to greater contact and hence disease transmission with cattle, she said. These findings also help explain why previous research showed that TB rates in cattle fell after researchers practically eradicated badgers, but increased after local culling. "Small-scale culling, such as that which might be advocated as a compromise between conservation and farming concerns, or by farmers acting illegally, is actually the worst possible approach in terms of controlling infection in cattle," Woodroffe told The Scientist



eg. Badgers are social animals that live in extended family groups. If a group of badgers is infected with bovine TB, and some family members are culled, the remaining ones are likely to relocate, spreading the infection.

oh, and thank you for that hilarious rendition of the incredibly hilarious badger mushroom song. Gosh, how hilarious i find that song. Not at all incredibly irritating and lacking in humour, and still quite as fresh and hilarious today as it was back when it was funny. Hilarious! and totally relevant to the discussion too!
umm


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:I admit, I dont really know anything about this other than scanning the wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Badger#Badgers_and_the_spread_of_bovine_TB)

According to that page 80% of bovine TB cases are caused by cattle to cattle transmission. If that is true, then I doubt badgers can make up the other 20%.


Written by:
In an area which provides a very poor habitat, the territory may be as large as 0.5 square miles (320 acres).


According to http://www.badgerland.co.uk/animals/family/territories.html
br>
If the territory is under a square mile then I doubt it will span more than one farm, so I dont see how they can spread TB from farm to farm. Are foxes a vector for TB? What about cattle auctions and centralised slaughterhouses?

And killing the badgers by shooting! This is the same as shooting foxes, its a really bad idea because youll end up with anyone who owns a gun trying to get them and more often than not they wont die on the first shot. I know its illegal in the UK, but I doubt that will stop anyone who thinks they should be killed.

All in all it seems pointless


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:It does seem pointless. I think it's another excuse for those tweed wearing, bugle-blowing, beagle owning gits to get on their horses again.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: ravehead


badgers themselfs are viscious creatures





Really? you must be thinking of something else, because this word:

Written by: Dictionary.com


vicious

Pronunciation Key (vshs)

adj.



1. Having the nature of vice; evil, immoral, or depraved.

2. Given to vice, immorality, or depravity.

3. Spiteful; malicious: vicious gossip.

4. Disposed to or characterized by violent or destructive behavior. See Synonyms at cruel.

5. Marked by an aggressive disposition; savage. Used chiefly of animals.

6. Severe or intense; fierce: a vicious storm.

7. Faulty, imperfect, or otherwise impaired by defects or a defect: a forced, vicious style of prose.

8. Impure; foul.





doesn't describe badgers well at all. In fact, it describes those who want to hunt them far better.



As yet, I really havn't heard an arguement for the cull that holds water. I doubt I will.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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ducky2108


ducky2108

A little bit of a board whore
Location: Glasgow

Total posts: 147
Posted:Written by: ravehead

personaly i'm not for or against a cull, it will be done on the grounds of public interest what ever my view. TB is a nasty illness be it bovine or the multi drug resistant human variaty. badgers themselfs are viscious creatures and i would'nt want to cuddle a wild one but i do think if it's going to cause a lot of other animals to suffer then it needs to be attended to.



Hmmm, do you read Private Eye at all. From that statement, I'd say probably not.

DEFRAs past history of "working in the public interest" is laughable at best, and truely terrifying at worst. Their handling of the foot and mouth crisis, and their subsequent denying farmers the monies owed to them (money already paid by Europe to go to the farmers, currently sitting in the goverment DEFRA funds) and other truely attrocious examples have earned them the nickname of the Department for the Eradication of Farming and Rural Areas. At the end of the day, regardless of scientific or public opinion, DEFRA will probably do what DEFRA want's.

Going slightly off topic, anyone who's interested in politics really should read private eye. It certainly lets you see the government in a light different to that they want you to see.


Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Written by: jo_rhymes

It does seem pointless. I think it's another excuse for those tweed wearing, bugle-blowing, beagle owning gits to get on their horses again.



Many of my friend would fit that description, and I know first hand that they are only doing what they think it right for their land and the animals they farm. This is not always the case I know, but I take great offence to people calling them names because they have no idea about how they live. Most town/city types don't have a clue about the country side but still they take the moral high ground.

Also, I'd love to see a horse and hound hunt after a badger set ubblol

Bov, badgers are nasty. I wouldn't want to be near one at all. They can hurt people a lot, but thats only when people get in their way.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Sym

Bov, badgers are nasty. I wouldn't want to be near one at all. They can hurt people a lot, but thats only when people get in their way.



Yep, it's only when you get close enough for them to think that they're threatened - they don't seek out things to attack.
Powerful and capable of causing serious damage when they're cornered, yes - vicious, no.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:sym, i didnt mean to offend your animal murdering friends biggrin
and I agree with the Bovster, you dont hear of badgers going on vicious rampages attacking the villagers.
They just know how to defend themselves. And it sounds like they need too. (they are cute as buttons though!) :P


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/3027681.stm
br>


Anyway, that isn't good grounds to cull something (also, it was a 1 off, so it's a bit of a straw man redface )- if it were then some demographics of our society should be culled ubblol

EDITED_BY: Sym (1141847410)


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Good news it's being noticed. I wrote to my MP about this barbaric and utterly pointless cull.



On a side note, hunting is utterly despicable, unless out of necessity for survival. Humans have no need to hunt in this day and age, and it is by clinging on to outmoded and dogmatic "tradition" that stops humans from acheiving their true potential as a species, and is keeping pollution on the rise, the rainforests at risk and millions of species on the verge of extinction. I have lived in rural farming communities all my life and am well aware of the sort of people who hunt, the reasons they do so, and their conception of what a "good hunt" means. Anyone who hunts is a morally reprehensible moron stuck in a past age, where slavery existed and women weren't allowed legal representation. Animal rights means a lot to me, which is why I deleted the more vitriolic mass of this post before submitting.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:clap ditto biggrin hug for Kevlar.

Sym, after reading that story, surely you must have noted the amount of propaganda in there!

the guy went to get his camera and tried to get close to him. Everyone knows badgers are kickass. That badger "Boris", has been domesticated so it doesnt fear humans. It even says at the bottom of that article that in their natural habitats, badgers wouldnt act like that.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:yes, thats why i said it was a 1 off, and that it was a straw man

There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Domino
SILVER Member since May 2004

UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK

Total posts: 757
Posted:I wonder if this was a cull for Mongolian Snarl-Toothed Boil-Faced Pug-Ugly Giant Rat the same opinions would be held....?

Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:no, kill all of the ugly blighters. :P
Non-Https Image Link

EDITED_BY: jo_rhymes (1141851573)


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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ducky2108


ducky2108

A little bit of a board whore
Location: Glasgow

Total posts: 147
Posted:Never mind the badgers. I've got a mate off to kill the Hedghogs of Uist on saturday.

Won't anyone think of the children


Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"

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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road

Total posts: 15965
Posted:I was going to start a thread about this about a week ago but I've been really distracted of late.
rolleyes

That said I did send out emails to all the people in my contacts that I thought would actually do something positive about it. Although, to date, only Stroo has told me that she has actually done anything...... mutter grumble moan etc....

Anyhoo, this is the email that I sent to DEFRA on the subject:

Written by: me
I wish to register my response to your consultation document - Controlling the Spread of Bovine Tuberculosis in Cattle in High Incidence Areas in England: Badger Culling.

With regard to Question 1 - My response to your consultation on the spread of bovine tb in cattle, is that I oppose any form of badger culling. Gassing and snaring are inhumane and unacceptable.

Bovine tb tests for cattle are not accurate and are missing infected cows that re-infect the herd, or are sold to other farms to spread the disease.

There is still no firm evidence that badgers pass tb to cattle, it could easily be transmitted from cows to badgers. Government scientists say that culling badgers is not the answer, and cattle measures are needed as cattle are the main source of the spread of the disease.

The remaining questions are irrelevant as I am opposed to any form of culling.

Regards



Well done Mr Simian for bringing this to the attention of the world. Lets hope that it helps ....
hug


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:Thanks for that Cantus, it's a much better email than the one they have on smile I'll use this one as a template if you don't mind!! hug

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:I heard about this too on the radio. It seems like its compleatly pointless as they've actually shown from previous culls that it makes the TB problems worse in the surrounding areas. And as said before, there is no evidence that badgers can pass TB on to cattle.

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:why does everyone love badgers so much? i don't necessarily think people should go around killing them, but badgers do have TB you know. smile

when i was in school we got in sooooo much trouble for going near them in case we got bitten & caught something nasty. badgers are nasty peices of work, redemming themselves i suppose by being nocturnal and keeping out of our way. i've seen a few badger bites and they're naaasty. they are you know. also, they get in the way of cars.

it might upset the ecosystem if a third of them get killed i guess, but apart from that i say begone badgers!!! i wouldn't miss them.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Written by: Tao Star

they get in the way of cars.
i say begone badgers!!! i wouldn't miss them.



confused umm nice.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Sym

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/3027681.stm
br>
Anyway, that isn't good grounds to cull something (also, it was a 1 off, so it's a bit of a straw man redface )- if it were then some demographics of our society should be culled ubblol



I've just read that article again - it doesn't mention how the badger got into the garage, but it does mention that Mr Fitzgerald entered the garage by the electric door.

I'm assuming that means the main garage door - the badger may well have just wanted to get the hell out, but that way out's got someone standing in it. It does say that the badger approached slowly, it doesn't quite sound like a frenzied assault.

In no way am I trying to say that badgers are always innocent, but they're animals and act on instinct. They are however, fairly predictable.
Blame can't really be placed on them if they're cornered while feeling threatened - take away the option of running away and since they can't talk their way out, they don't have many options left.

I'm not saying that I have no sympathy for the man, it's obviously really unfortunate that it happened and I feel sorry for him, but he has a background in wildlife and is almost certainly not ignorant - he ought to know better.

Written by: Domino

I wonder if this was a cull for Mongolian Snarl-Toothed Boil-Faced Pug-Ugly Giant Rat the same opinions would be held....?



I'd like to think that regardless of the animal, I'd oppose a cull that hasn't been proven to be of any benefit.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Just to make it clear again, that was more of a joke than anything - there is no grounds for culling just because 1 badger attacked 1 man once. Thats why I said

1) It's a straw man
2) it's a 1 off
3) well, every other bit of the post that isn't a link

Should I remove that post for fear of people accusing me of being a badger killing loon?

Oh actually, they did bite once of Tao Stars friends and they do get in the way of cars, so yeah, go for it. Lets kill all the rabbits, deers and pheasants while we're at it.

Sorry if this sounds bitchy Bov, I am with you on this (as I said in my first post) and it feels like neither you or Jo actually read my post. If you did, then I guess the joke was a bit too dry to work over the internet, redface hug

I agree with Domino to a point, I thnk there would be little objection if rats were going to be culled or mosquitoes for that metter.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:sym, hug no one's attacking you, it's just obvious the bloke in the link you sent is a moron. ubblol
And when it comes down to protesting against culling any other animals. I remember protesting about the snails in Newbury. we have to look after the diversity of the ecology of our planet. not wipe it out.


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Sym

Should I remove that post for fear of people accusing me of being a badger killing loon?




No, no, keep it there smile

I wasn't trying to imply that you were a badger killing loon, but after reading that article and having time to think about it, I thought I might as well post my thoughts. Maybe I shouldn't have done, given the amount of time and other posts that had passed.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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hamamelis
BRONZE Member since Jan 2006

hamamelis

nut.
Location: Bouncing off the walls.

Total posts: 756
Posted:A kid at my old school's grandad has his finger bitten off by a badger when he was trying to rescue it from some badger baiters.. Not that this is relevant to anything very much.

Personally, I suggest a cull of cows in an atempt to stop TB in the Badger population, it's about as sensible.


THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!


If that's okay with you?

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