Page: 12
NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:There are 178 Starbucks within 5 miles of my home.



If you live in America or Canada you can find out how many are within 5 miles of your home too. And how many locally owned cafes there are also.



http://www.delocator.net
br>


I have mixed feelings. I'm a bit intimidated but perhaps not as scared as I should be. Can someone liberlize me and explain why I should be scared?



I don't actually drink coffee but the whole concept of "large company = bad, small company = good" is a bit lost to me. I understand that some large companies do HORRIBLE things (Sweatshops, etc... ) and they should be held responsible and deemed "BAD"...



But I also suspect that it'd be EASIER for a small mom and pop store to have less morals becuase there'd be no reprocussions if they got caught. If the local cafe in my hood ground up babies for their coffee I think it'd be much easier to get away with that if Starbucks did it. And I LOVE Ben and Jerry's. Those guys bust their butts for social issues. At least they used to. And they're widespread and international and therefore evil right?



Educate me.



biggrin

EDITED_BY: NYC (1138219068)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete Topic

fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:first off, i'd just like to say that south park did tackle this issue in the episode entitled 'gnomes' in the second season biggrin

and more recently, in the wall-mart episode in season 8 biggrin

I also don't drink coffee, but i guess what maybe should worry you is that the market can support that. I guess its not surprising in the city, but it is in places where you can have 2 on opposite street corners


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

Delete

animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Hello and welcome to HoP, NYC wave

The topic you have brought up in this thread, Whilst being a valid and interesting topic, has already been brought up in THIS thread here.

It is useful to do a search before posting, as it saves the forums becoming clogged with what appear to be duplicate threads...

Thank you, and enjoy your time here on HoP!!

wink


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

Fine_Rabid_Dog
Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 10530
Posted:pssst... thats in chat.

Chat = crap.

NYC wants a decent discussion. Not crap.

Silly. tongue


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

Delete

animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:rolleyes

Damn... Everyone Misunderstands things nowadays... I remember the good old days when everyone got along...

ubblol


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Leaning_Towards_Corruption

Hello and welcome to HoP, NYC wave

The topic you have brought up in this thread, Whilst being a valid and interesting topic, has already been brought up in THIS thread here.

It is useful to do a search before posting, as it saves the forums becoming clogged with what appear to be duplicate threads...

Thank you, and enjoy your time here on HoP!!

wink



Indeed that thread was crap. I read it and learned that the Bacon Double Cheese Burgers at Burger King are better than at Mc. Donalds.

Maybe if you'd have read it rather than skimming it you'd have learned the same.

wink

I was actually hoping that someone with a brain could explain the situation to me a bit better. And since many folks with a brain don't "Chat" for obvious reasons I prefer a "Discussion". If you look at the Discussion Forum you can find the definitions of both forums should you get confused in the future.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:i can see your dellema, and would also like to hear more aboutit, 178 within 5 miles seems a hell of a lot.

considering theres only 6 MDs in my city, and we were the last capital city in Australia to get MDs in the CBD i'd say we dont have the same problem, but it still makes me think i should be worried.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Delete

JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted:Kick 'em in the shins. That'll solve any problem.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

Delete

Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:unless they do muai thai, in which case they make kick you back (in the face!)

sorry, off topic

did i mention my city only has two burger kings? and the second one only opened two weeks ago


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Delete

JayKitty
JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey
Member Since: 7th Nov 2004
Total posts: 534
Posted:4 Starbucks, 3 Dunkin' Donuts(also a coffee shop) and 3 Wawas (convienience store) within 5 minutes of my house.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Delete

Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:You just discovered this?

Well, ok, I'll tell my story. My friend comes to visit me after just starting at her (4th) university in chicago. She lives in the south loop and applied to a lot of starbucks for work. Since she had to apply for the jobs online she learned that there were 80-something in a five mile radius of her house. This would be less scary if 2.5 square miles of that were not lake michigan....

So we decided to play with manhatten and indeed 178 topped the list, I belive I chose broadway and 5th ave. But myself?

Only 55 starbucks in a five mile radius.

I've heard people bash ben and jerry's lately too. i'm preplexed and would also like an explanation.

I would also like an explanation as to why the coolest new flavour is avaible in england but not here (at more than 8 a pint I was not buying it there... except... where is it? *pouts*)


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:did you know starbucks started off with one guy wanting to bring nice service and different flavours to the US, and now we hate his creation? kind of strange isnt it........

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

Delete

jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:The problem many people have with Starbucks is their policy of oversaturating an area to force out the local competition.

Also many coffee sources are of debatable ethicalness with regards to the prices paid to farmers.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:if it doesn't bother you dude, you have nothing to worry about shrug



i personally tend to buy my coffee from a place called 'amt' which only sells fair trade coffee.



i must admit, i sometimes go a little italian coffee shop cos they use lavazza beans and they make me smile lots.





if you want to latch onto some 'liberalised' opinions though ( wink ), here are mine:



i don't like that starbucks have become so widespread because it kills variety and thus leaves us with less choices as consumers (and therefore reduces our power to change what we do not like).



your example of a small mom and pop store having less morals and getting away with it, i'm not 100% certain what you're getting at - did you mean trading unethically or illegally? - whichever, it makes a very valid distinction between independent stores and chains like starbucks with regard to consumer choice.



if i found out that mom+pop were trading in a way i didn't like, i would simply stop giving them my custom and find another independent store that offers a similar product but without the poor trading ethics that mom+pop employed.



if starbucks do something i don't like, it is much harder to 'shop around' - they have so many outlets, all operating on the same ethical and financial basis, that changing which starbucks you buy your coffee from makes absolutely no difference.



the more widespread starbucks become, the more the alternatives diminish and the faster your choice (and therefore power) as a consumer vanishes.





they are the mcdonalds of the coffee world - by that i mean that they have taken their sanitised idea of what a coffee shop should be and carbon-copied it into every culture they could get into.



they own more than 8,500 cafes worldwide with a long term goal of 30,000 - whatever starbucks stood for originally, that target is purely about domination of a market and making as much money as possible now.





Written by: kyrian


I would also like an explanation as to why the coolest new flavour is avaible in england but not here (at more than 8 a pint I was not buying it there... except... where is it? *pouts*)







that protest is typical of a consumer who has had their choice reduced so much that they expect *exactly* the same choices, no matter where they go.



i hate the fact that if i go to, say, china, i could probably find a starbucks without looking very hard at all - and i would bet a month's wages that it would sell their standard branded teas rather than traditional teas from the region.



if anything, what you experienced could be a positive sign - it might suggest that starbucks have started varying their menu choices based on region (well, more likely by continent), but i severely doubt it.



the most likely explanation is that the uk (or perhaps just the region where you were living kyrian) is a test market for the new flavour.



don't worry though - i'm sure if it sells well here, it will spread like a syrupy plague into starbucks the world over...



and that's another thing that bugs me - isn't the point of coffee that IT TASTES LIKE COFFEE?! wink





cole. x



*enough angst to share with the whole of ny state*


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:I cant speak for starbucks because i've never been in one and rarley seen one, but you made a comparison to mc donalds and i've see a fair few all over the world. To say that they all have the same menu all over the world is fairly inacurate. French Mcdonalds are alot different to Irish ones. And when in thailand, there were many, many foodstuffs that i was hard pushed to even recognise. They all have the golden arches and the colors and little stars on the badges though. Every last one. On the main street in dublin.. Two Mcdonalds. Two burger kins. An Eddie Rockets, A Super Macs and An Aberakebabera. The street is about 300m long....



The market research that these companies are capable of is staggering. The product is always going to be streamlined for the highest sales. Not just because of what the people are more likely to eat (i find that fast food joints like to tell you what to eat). But also what products are available locally and hundred other factors. Even religion has to be factored in.



Like i said though, i dont know much about starbucks.



In ireland there are a few trends developing. Coffee culture is really only kicking of in the last couple of years from what i can see, but more and more chain franchises are popping up in the cities and major towns. Nothing on the scale of new york. Juice bars too are moving fast. In four months. One company opened 4 outlets here in limerick. ALL within in four huundred meters of each other! There branded, ugly and obviously based on the 'Transplant' package that the bigger companies have been using for years.



My biggest concern is about the Spar and Centra (something like walmart i reckon) stores that are appearing Everywhere in ireland. Its insane, there really killing off the local stores at an alarming rate. Same color, same uniform. It seems that everytime a store closes, Spar or Centra are straight in there. It really takes the excitment out of wondering what cool new store is going to open up next.



What bothers me most about chain mentality is more than the lack of choice. Its the lack of human contact. These business's operate on a minimum wage basis. Employees are not encouraged to build relationships with employees. There all the same, so theres no playing favorites and like cole said, it removes the option of choice and so there is always going to be something lacking when you go in to shop. Theres less Please's and Thankyou's. Im not sure what if can truley explain what im getting at here. Its like the whole act of going out and making a purchase is becoming more of a fixed process, more mundane...



Fast Food, Fast Coffee, Fast Juice. Fast Spending.


Love is the law.

Delete

magdalene
newbie
Location: west mids
Member Since: 11th Sep 2005
Total posts: 3
Posted:I work for starbucks as a 'Barista' as they call it, witch means mostly a washer-uper. When i started i was given an leaflet on ther're social and ethical intatives, which tells all about the various projects they have funded in the countries from witch the source there coffee. I was impressed that the company were apearing to be doing the right thing , but sceptical about the reality. One of the statements made by starbucks was that "all starbucks coffee is fairly traded although it does not carry the fair trade mark" Well if it dosn't carry the fair trade mark 'fairly traded' could mean anything.

There was also a section on how well Starbucks treat thier employeis. From personal experiance Starbucks didn't pay me for 3 months work, took no responsability for the mistake and gave me no explination. It took me loads of phonecalls and a huge phone bill just to get paid.
So to conclude i am compleatly disillusioned with the ethics that Starbucks claim to have, and i believe that they will get away with whatever they can and don't seem to be held acountable by anyone.


Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:[Yo ado... you typed [ i / ] when you meant [ / i ]... I didn't mind but I did have to tilt my head slightly to the right to read your post. EDIT: Never mind, you fixed it smile ]



Thanks Cole. That's sort of what I was looking for. I hadn't really solidified the "lack of competition" ideas.



See, if you just tell me what to think BEFORE I have an opinion it makes it much easier than if I actually form my own opinion and then have to disagree with you. wink wink wink hug



Though, I think something like Ben and Jerrys is a really good example of a counter arguement. I'd recon that B+J has done more good over the past 10 years than every mom and pop ice cream company combined.



Ben and Jerry's Site


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:'Fairly traded' but with no fair trade mark... umm

That's very strange. You would think they would want to shout it to the world if they were doing something as wonderful as fairly trading?


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

Delete

magdalene
newbie
Location: west mids
Member Since: 11th Sep 2005
Total posts: 3
Posted:P.S i do get lots of very nice free coffee.

Delete

coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:starbucks idea of fair trade is slightly different to that of the fairtrade foundation.

they do sell beans with a fair trade mark but the majority of the coffee they brew and sell does not have it.

i too thought that sounded very questionable but then i found this news article.

click here for an overview of starbucks coffee bean purchasing strategy.


nyc, i definitely agree - ben and jerry's rock smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I liked the part of "Absolute Power" (that show with Stephen Fry) where they're brainstorming on PROs and CONs of America.

The only PRO they can come up with is "Ben and Jerry's".

And I pride myself on being one of the very few Americans familiar with that reference. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Written by: NYC


I'd recon that B+J has done more good over the past 10 years than every mom and pop ice cream company combined.





65% of Americans will agree with you... ubblol

i used to be one of the 21% biggrin

EDITED_BY: TinklePants (1138293582)


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

Delete

Sporky
Sporky

addict
Location: Glasgow
Member Since: 25th Jul 2005
Total posts: 663
Posted:Harsh Tink but true never the less.

There's nothing better than munching a tub of B+J's with a good movie. Even better knowing that they really do care about the world. If only every other company in the world acted this way...


Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't

Delete

FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:hmmm - I love B&J's but also use Haagen Daz for tastebud satisfaction.. but this carries one far away from the original topic spank

In case you haven't noticed McDonalds also claim to do something more for society than just expoiting workforce and gaining profit for their 226,656 stockowners.

There is a high number of multinationals who throw in social sponsoring to make people feel good when they buy their product.

And I have not found a single salesperson on the planet who said No - don't - buy - my - product - it - sucks

So where are we? Discussing about the policies of Starbucks, whether or not we can feel OKAY for drinking, eating or generally purchasing any product that is manufactured by large multinationals (incl. Puma, Adidas, Nokia, Canon, Intel, Microsoft...)? Whether B&J is good and Starbucks is bad?

umm rolleyes ubbidea ubbloco

IMO it doesn't make a difference whether you do or don't - if you feel good about it - do it and if you don't ... All this seems to get to the point where one cannot walk down the road and enjoy life without questioning oneself: "did I pay off for the brazilian rainforest? did I wire the money to my Indian tsunami victim fund? did I put on my badge "firends don't let friends go to starbucks"? Will we become crippled by ethics?.... does it make us saints if we don't go to McD or Starbucks?

Cole put it closest to my opinion: when big multinationals control the market, we will have no (more) choices. Maybe it's already pointless to choose Pepsi over Coke as (maybe) both belong to the same holding group already... in many sections of the market it's like that today.

So visiting moms and pops cornershop might not contribute to what multinationals define as a "fair" trade - why? because mom and pop can't afford this - but it will certainly put a buck in the pockets of real people in your neighbourhood and not financing VLM's (very large multinationals)...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

Delete

TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: FireTom

And I have not found a single salesperson on the planet who said No - don't - buy - my - product - it - sucks




Some people have got pretty close - Gerald Ratner for example smile


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Written by: NYC

Though, I think something like Ben and Jerrys is a really good example of a counter arguement. I'd recon that B+J has done more good over the past 10 years than every mom and pop ice cream company combined.

Ben and Jerry's Site



except seel out to unilever, which is Not Good:
this is the first of many pages about unilevers bad-ness

i can only hope they are working from the inside to fix it...


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:So a big evil British corporation swallowed up a nice little American company?

Pesky Brits always getting American Fads years later. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:well, apart from unilever being mostly dutch now, i suppose you're right. why do we have to pick up your worst habits wink but not the good ones(like good service, politeness(oh, no, wait...)and a reasonable selection of cheap food outlets(except for coffee, of course))

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: FireTom


And I have not found a single salesperson on the planet who said No - don't - buy - my - product - it - sucks




Wasn't that the entire point of "Death Cigarettes"?


Non-Https Image Link


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:and what about the great campaign:

"nothing sucks like electrolux"


i hear that was really popular in the states wink


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Well they had to pull that ad once Coleman's Mom proved them wrong.

eek

Oh sorry, I thought this was chat for a second.

wink wink wink

Carry on...


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [178 starbuck*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > 178 Starbucks [48 replies]
2. Forums > starbucks makes me crazy [29 replies]
3. Forums > Starbucks Coffee Cup Fault [4 replies]
4. Forums > The no :censored: rule [10 replies]
5. Forums > Eating Fresh, Eating Local [5 replies]

     Show more..