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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Basic Weave Name
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9 posts
9 posts
Posted:
Hi.
I was just wondering what the proper term for the step before the 3 beat weave was. It is essentially where the poi chase each other through a figure of 8. I have heard it refered to under a number of names;
Basic Weave
Half Beat Weave
1 Beat Weave
Split Time Figure Of 8
It is used in a club I go to (hired hall, poisters teach each other new things) as an introduction to the 3 beat, i.e. first do this, then 3 beat, then 5 beat. Is this the best way, or should people be dropped in the deep end with 3 beat straight away? I dont see this intermittent stage listed anywhere.
Thank you.
AA.
Hi.
I was just wondering what the proper term for the step before the 3 beat weave was. It is essentially where the poi chase each other through a figure of 8. I have heard it refered to under a number of names;
Basic Weave
Half Beat Weave
1 Beat Weave
Split Time Figure Of 8
It is used in a club I go to (hired hall, poisters teach each other new things) as an introduction to the 3 beat, i.e. first do this, then 3 beat, then 5 beat. Is this the best way, or should people be dropped in the deep end with 3 beat straight away? I dont see this intermittent stage listed anywhere.
Thank you.
AA.
GOLD Membermaster of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
Posted:
its a 2 beat weave, with one beat on each side (1:1), as opposed to the 2:1 pattern of the 3bt
its a 2 beat weave, with one beat on each side (1:1), as opposed to the 2:1 pattern of the 3bt
kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
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ezz: please corrupt me more
BRONZE MemberHOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Not at all, its two beat on each site cause its combination of two Figure 8 motions that are [1:1] so together its [2:2]. Thats why its called Two beat Weave. Its called Figure 8 too, as same name as the Figure 8 pattern or Cross-followand this move is done Wheel plane.
So from the beginnig of split time and wall plane:
[1:1] is just spining split time with each hand on its side
[2:2] is Figure 8 with each hand
[3:3] is Weave when both hands do Figure 8 + one beat.
([2:2] meen both hands do together 2 beat on each side)
ps: www.spherculism.net/wiki
:R
Written by:
ef_en_ae
...with one beat on each side (1:1)...
Not at all, its two beat on each site cause its combination of two Figure 8 motions that are [1:1] so together its [2:2]. Thats why its called Two beat Weave. Its called Figure 8 too, as same name as the Figure 8 pattern or Cross-followand this move is done Wheel plane.
So from the beginnig of split time and wall plane:
[1:1] is just spining split time with each hand on its side
[2:2] is Figure 8 with each hand
[3:3] is Weave when both hands do Figure 8 + one beat.
([2:2] meen both hands do together 2 beat on each side)
ps: www.spherculism.net/wiki
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
GOLD Membermaster of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
Posted:
well, wouldn't a 3:3 pattern be, with one hand, 3 beats on one side, 3 on the other, with the same hand? My understanding of 3 bt weave was a 2:1 pattern, 2 on one side, 1 on same side, but that the ratio was applied to just one hand, because the person would figure out that the other hand was supposed to do the same thing.
maybe it'd be clearer if I wrote that the 1:1 was for only one hand?
well, wouldn't a 3:3 pattern be, with one hand, 3 beats on one side, 3 on the other, with the same hand? My understanding of 3 bt weave was a 2:1 pattern, 2 on one side, 1 on same side, but that the ratio was applied to just one hand, because the person would figure out that the other hand was supposed to do the same thing.
maybe it'd be clearer if I wrote that the 1:1 was for only one hand?
kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more
BRONZE MemberHOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
It can be.
I think it'd be clearer, cause its better to say, if [1:1] meen one hand or both cause its different than.
For example 1:2 is different from 2:1 for me.
Weave is better 1:2L(left hand) and 2:1R
or 3:3 as beat sum, like I wrote.
:R
It can be.
I think it'd be clearer, cause its better to say, if [1:1] meen one hand or both cause its different than.
For example 1:2 is different from 2:1 for me.
Weave is better 1:2L(left hand) and 2:1R
or 3:3 as beat sum, like I wrote.
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
SILVER Member
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380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
yay. lets debate colon use! haha. mine's different than both of yours i bet. iNF probably assumes like me that you're notating [opposite:same] side, not [left:right] side of your body. that way you don't need multiple notations. 1:2 in that notation would be one circle opposite side, two on the same side, which doesn't lead to weave-like seperation at all unless maybe you're inverting a few of them or something and then you lose the meaning of "same side".
but anapple, it's either "the 2-beat", "cross/follow", or just "the chase", tho rev might tell you it's "0 degree split-time unseperated weaving" or something in his world.
as to the second part of your question, i learned the 3-beat first. actually, i knew the 3-beat from swords before i'd ever heard of poi. i know several people who picked up the 3 by feel before they learned that it could be seperated into two 2s. let your body follow the poi instead of the other way around to start and worry about moves when you're more comfortable spinning. you'll get hit less that way too.
-- dut
EDITED_BY: Dut (1135723469)
yay. lets debate colon use! haha. mine's different than both of yours i bet. iNF probably assumes like me that you're notating [opposite:same] side, not [left:right] side of your body. that way you don't need multiple notations. 1:2 in that notation would be one circle opposite side, two on the same side, which doesn't lead to weave-like seperation at all unless maybe you're inverting a few of them or something and then you lose the meaning of "same side".
but anapple, it's either "the 2-beat", "cross/follow", or just "the chase", tho rev might tell you it's "0 degree split-time unseperated weaving" or something in his world.
as to the second part of your question, i learned the 3-beat first. actually, i knew the 3-beat from swords before i'd ever heard of poi. i know several people who picked up the 3 by feel before they learned that it could be seperated into two 2s. let your body follow the poi instead of the other way around to start and worry about moves when you're more comfortable spinning. you'll get hit less that way too.
-- dut
EDITED_BY: Dut (1135723469)
SILVER Memberveteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
Posted:
i use my colon for....wait wrong kind of colon
technically 1:2 and 2:1 are the same weave, just with a different leading hand.
so 2beat would be 1:1 because each hand is doing 1 each side
3beat = 2:1 or 1:2 depending on leading hand cos one is doing 2 beats and the other is doing 1 on each side
4beat is where it gets tricky cos you'd think its 2:2 but its not, its more like 1:3-1:2 ......or something, i dunno
i use my colon for....wait wrong kind of colon
technically 1:2 and 2:1 are the same weave, just with a different leading hand.
so 2beat would be 1:1 because each hand is doing 1 each side
3beat = 2:1 or 1:2 depending on leading hand cos one is doing 2 beats and the other is doing 1 on each side
4beat is where it gets tricky cos you'd think its 2:2 but its not, its more like 1:3-1:2 ......or something, i dunno
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380 posts
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
haha. 4 people. 4 notations. noiiice.
[opposite:same] is still superior to [leading:trailing] (or whatever yours works out to) in my book b/c it lets me talk about all your moves, as well as things like 1:2 as a different weave than 2:1. my 1:2 isn't even notatable in [leading:trailing] because your way has to assume non-seperation. technically, my 1:2 is a seperated, off-time 2 petal 2-beat flower or something. my way also lets me talk about things like the 7:2 (7 leading, 2 trailing) that don't make sense without seperations and different circle speeds for each hand, but still finishes each side like a 5-beat before doing the same or something different on the other side. i'd agree that a 4 is hard our way and not Richees tho, as you have to talk about what each hand is doing seperately. but if you did 7:2 on one side and 4:1 on the other my way it would take just as much extra notation... hmm. so richee's/sperc's isn't actually correct to the circle count, just convenient. you can't have a 4:4 his way, for example, cuz that's a 5-beat, which is probably why they stop listing them at 3:3. 
i don't know why 2:2 made
sense either now but i was thinking about offsets too at the time...
screw it all. i'm using pipes from now on.
-- dut
EDITED_BY: Dut (1135720082)
haha. 4 people. 4 notations. noiiice.
[opposite:same] is still superior to [leading:trailing] (or whatever yours works out to) in my book b/c it lets me talk about all your moves, as well as things like 1:2 as a different weave than 2:1. my 1:2 isn't even notatable in [leading:trailing] because your way has to assume non-seperation. technically, my 1:2 is a seperated, off-time 2 petal 2-beat flower or something. my way also lets me talk about things like the 7:2 (7 leading, 2 trailing) that don't make sense without seperations and different circle speeds for each hand, but still finishes each side like a 5-beat before doing the same or something different on the other side. i'd agree that a 4 is hard our way and not Richees tho, as you have to talk about what each hand is doing seperately. but if you did 7:2 on one side and 4:1 on the other my way it would take just as much extra notation...
hmm. so richee's/sperc's isn't actually correct to the circle count, just convenient. you can't have a 4:4 his way, for example, cuz that's a 5-beat, which is probably why they stop listing them at 3:3. i don't know why 2:2 madesense either now but i was thinking about offsets too at the time...
screw it all. i'm using pipes from now on.
-- dut
EDITED_BY: Dut (1135720082)
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,453 posts
Location: Lancs England
veteran
1,453 posts
Location: Lancs England
Posted:
do a durbs
do a durbs
before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)
SILVER Member
member
161 posts
Location: USA
member
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Location: USA
Posted:
he is referring to the number of beats each string does per side not total. thats how you get 1:1 2:2 I dont believe is possible thoough I think the next beat is a 2:3
Written by: RicheeWritten by:
ef_en_ae
...with one beat on each side (1:1)...
Not at all, its two beat on each site cause its combination of two Figure 8 motions that are [1:1] so together its [2:2]. Thats why its called Two beat Weave. Its called Figure 8 too, as same name as the Figure 8 pattern or Cross-followand this move is done Wheel plane.
So from the beginnig of split time and wall plane:
[1:1] is just spining split time with each hand on its side
[2:2] is Figure 8 with each hand
[3:3] is Weave when both hands do Figure 8 + one beat.
([2:2] meen both hands do together 2 beat on each side)
ps: www.spherculism.net/wiki
:R
he is referring to the number of beats each string does per side not total. thats how you get 1:1 2:2 I dont believe is possible thoough I think the next beat is a 2:3
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
haha. i've never seen this in person, but i assume it's a version of what i would call 2:2. (errr. 2|2
) which could make a partially inverted 5-beat if you do it with both hands.
-- dut
Written by: Mint Sauce
do a durbs
haha. i've never seen this in person, but i assume it's a version of what i would call 2:2. (errr. 2|2
) which could make a partially inverted 5-beat if you do it with both hands. -- dut
GOLD MemberPooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Ok, since everyone in this thread is being entirely too technical for this question, let me simplify...
The move commonly goes by a few names. Some call it the figure 8, some call it the 2-beat weave and some call it the split time cross over. Each of these names describe the move accurately enough for most (non-nerds) to understand what you mean.
God damn, was that so hard??
Ok, since everyone in this thread is being entirely too technical for this question, let me simplify...
The move commonly goes by a few names. Some call it the figure 8, some call it the 2-beat weave and some call it the split time cross over. Each of these names describe the move accurately enough for most (non-nerds) to understand what you mean.
God damn, was that so hard??
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BRONZE Member
veteran
1,453 posts
Location: Lancs England
veteran
1,453 posts
Location: Lancs England
Posted:
yes
yes
before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)
GOLD Membermaster of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
Posted:
absolutely
absolutely
kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more
enthusiast384 posts
Location: West LA
Posted:
What do you mean by accurately?
andy
Written by:
The move commonly goes by a few names. Some call it the figure 8, some call it the 2-beat weave and some call it the split time cross over. Each of these names describe the move accurately enough for most (non-nerds) to understand what you mean.
What do you mean by accurately?
andy
To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .
BRONZE MemberHOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
OK
a] Man, technicaly 1:2 and 2:1 isnt noone Weave. Technicaly its Figure 8 with one hand and one beat with the other and its useless.
b] Let me choose 3:3
This is planar system, not beat system, but show me than Weave notation.
Pre > You are right I was just pointin moves without offset, odd moves.
For everybody check "degree" and " Poi siteswaps" threads for more
light,
:R
OK
Written by:
Vampyricacid
a] ...technically 1:2 and 2:1 are the same weave, just with a different leading hand..
b] ...3beat = 2:1 or 1:2...
a] Man, technicaly 1:2 and 2:1 isnt noone Weave. Technicaly its Figure 8 with one hand and one beat with the other and its useless.
b] Let me choose 3:3
Written by:
Dut
...like me that you're notating [opposite:same] side, not [left:right] side of your body....
This is planar system, not beat system, but show me than Weave notation.
Pre > You are right I was just pointin moves without offset, odd moves.
For everybody check "degree" and " Poi siteswaps" threads for more
light,
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
newbie
9 posts
9 posts
Posted:
Whoa, thanks for confusing that up..... I mean CLEARING that up hehe.
Thank you very much, I learn't more than I was expecting!!
AA.
Whoa, thanks for confusing that up..... I mean CLEARING that up
hehe.Thank you very much, I learn't more than I was expecting!!
AA.
BRONZE MemberHOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
good,
So together, basic Waeve is called:
Two beat weave (cause both hands does two beats)
Figure 8 (cause each hand does Figure 8 motion)
Cross-follow (cause cross-follow is base for Figure 8)
In beat notation its : [2:2] or 22 (both hands does [1:1])
In Plane notation its: [1:1] or 11 (both hands does 1 lead , 1 trail)
In degrees its [1:0] or 10 (both hands does first degree one side, zero degree the other)
For more serch for subject: "degree" by Rev (there are notation systems too) and "Siteswaps" by myself (in beat system)
perfect
:R
good
,So together, basic Waeve is called:
Two beat weave (cause both hands does two beats)
Figure 8 (cause each hand does Figure 8 motion)
Cross-follow (cause cross-follow is base for Figure 8)
In beat notation its : [2:2] or 22 (both hands does [1:1])
In Plane notation its: [1:1] or 11 (both hands does 1 lead , 1 trail)
In degrees its [1:0] or 10 (both hands does first degree one side, zero degree the other)
For more serch for subject: "degree" by Rev (there are notation systems too) and "Siteswaps" by myself (in beat system)
perfect
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
GOLD MemberSelf-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
would a one beat weave be possible? i'm trying to think of ways it could be done...
would a one beat weave be possible? i'm trying to think of ways it could be done...
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addict577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Oddly, I'm having trouble deciphering whether or not that was a serious post.
Oddly, I'm having trouble deciphering whether or not that was a serious post.
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Posted:
i'm guessing it would require much seperation. and probably some new kind of unary colon operator for us to abuse.
-- dut
Written by: MiG
would a one beat weave be possible? i'm trying to think of ways it could be done...
i'm guessing it would require much seperation.
and probably some new kind of unary colon operator for us to abuse.-- dut
veteran1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Surely a 1bt weave is just standing there spinning your poi in split time at your sides?
Surely a 1bt weave is just standing there spinning your poi in split time at your sides?
"Moo," said the happy cow.
SILVER Memberwith added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Posted:
yeh, thats what I always thought, but thats not a weave because the poi don't cross over to the opposite sides of the body. This is actually really hurting my brain. Especially as I'ver just spent my whole evening teaching 3, 4 and 5 beat weaves. Ow!
yeh, thats what I always thought, but thats not a weave because the poi don't cross over to the opposite sides of the body. This is actually really hurting my brain. Especially as I'ver just spent my whole evening teaching 3, 4 and 5 beat weaves. Ow!
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veteran1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
It's a weave if you say it is, it's just a matter of terminology. Much like in juggling siteswaps a 0 gets defined as an empty hand because that has utility value, just say spinning at your sides is a 1bt weave to complete the set
It's a weave if you say it is, it's just a matter of terminology. Much like in juggling siteswaps a 0 gets defined as an empty hand because that has utility value, just say spinning at your sides is a 1bt weave to complete the set
"Moo," said the happy cow.
addict577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Not really, if you look into the wider accepted definition of a weave, it is that the arms cross. Such is the reason for various debates on whether or not a through wrap counts towards the weave beats. You cannot have a 1 beat weave, as the very basic you can get will be 1 beat of each poi on a side, which is the 2bt weave. If you break the basic distinction of a weave like that, then it loses all meaning, I would imagine... At least, it would to me.
Not really, if you look into the wider accepted definition of a weave, it is that the arms cross. Such is the reason for various debates on whether or not a through wrap counts towards the weave beats. You cannot have a 1 beat weave, as the very basic you can get will be 1 beat of each poi on a side, which is the 2bt weave. If you break the basic distinction of a weave like that, then it loses all meaning, I would imagine... At least, it would to me.
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
veteran1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
You're missing my point. Juggling is all about throwing and cacthing, but in siteswap notation a 0 isn't a throw or a catch - it's just defined that way to make the notation simpler. Similarly you could define a 1bt weave as just spinning by your sides, despite the fact that there is no crossing, but it fits nicely into the beat notation where for an X beat weave the poi returns to its initial position after X complete revolutions. And like the 0 in siteswap juggling, it might make a system of notation easier.
Obviously there is no actual 1 beat weave. But there's nothing wrong from defining it as I have for consistency if that helps matters. Basically I'm looking at it primarily from the point of view of beat counts, whereas you're looking at weaves. I personally think the beats are more fundamental, but opinions differ...
You're missing my point. Juggling is all about throwing and cacthing, but in siteswap notation a 0 isn't a throw or a catch - it's just defined that way to make the notation simpler. Similarly you could define a 1bt weave as just spinning by your sides, despite the fact that there is no crossing, but it fits nicely into the beat notation where for an X beat weave the poi returns to its initial position after X complete revolutions. And like the 0 in siteswap juggling, it might make a system of notation easier.
Obviously there is no actual 1 beat weave. But there's nothing wrong from defining it as I have for consistency if that helps matters. Basically I'm looking at it primarily from the point of view of beat counts, whereas you're looking at weaves. I personally think the beats are more fundamental, but opinions differ...
"Moo," said the happy cow.
newbie7 posts
Location: Vancouver Island
Posted:
1 beat weave eh? What if you cross you arms every beat? or does that have a name?
Just thinking out loud, trying to confuse the issue...
1 beat weave eh? What if you cross you arms every beat? or does that have a name?
Just thinking out loud, trying to confuse the issue...
Hmm, isn't it about time??
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