Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Apparently, Science is no longer limited to finding natural explanations to physical phenomena.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the first official sign of the downfall of the American Empire.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:link???

and i don't think its the first official sign. i think the "elections" were the first... but this is a worse one, for sure!


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Dr_Molly
Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home
Member Since: 4th May 2004
Total posts: 2354
Posted:Here you go Kyri: The one that is quite upsetting

The one that manages to make me giggle about such a frustrating topic


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted::. . coleman's creationist retaliation plan . .:

step one:
buy 20,000 copies of richard dawkin's 'the blind watchmaker'.

step two:
drop them (all in one big go of course) from a helicopter down onto the kansas state board of education.

they won't read it, but the destruction of the building of the deciding body that took such an outrageous decision, by a book that provides clear, concise and logical reasoning that debunks all of these so-called 'anti-evolution arguments' would be a beautiful irony smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:ubblol

Getting to the other side smile

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:right... there;s no evidence for the genetic code??? eek

er... yes.. running AWAY from there...

love your solution cole smile


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Written by: Avant News


In mathematics, any teacher caught instructing students on the concepts of "differential calculus" or "irrational numbers" will be burned as a witch.







Sounds like a good plan to me wink

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1131629951)


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:I just saw an short interview with a guy called Robertson?, who was obviously a high-up fundamentalist christian annoyed that the vote on this matter in a different state had not gone his way.

He was warning the population of the state that, if a natural disaster of some kind happened there in the near future, they shouldn't bother asking God for help smile

He suggested they pray to Darwin instead.

He was serious as well; it was quite disturbing to watch.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:This blows. Thank God I live in a semi normal state not overrun by religious zealots. ubblol for irony there.

I hope they bring this up with the supreme court.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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weeleigh
weeleigh

look a rainbow!
Location: Waterford, CT
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 237
Posted:The world makes me want to cry sometimes.





Or hit people in the face with a two-by-four. I just can't decide at the moment.


"Happiness is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth."

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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:I would have to say that Richard Dawkins makes a compelling argument, however in the end does not achieve his goal of setting up atheism as the new religion. Rather he makes a compelling argument for agnosticism...

I have no problem with teaching inteligent design... just not as science. Maybe in a comparitive religions or philosophy class offering. Hell, I think a forced cultural diversity class would be a good thing to help these darn kids learn to live with people that are different than them.


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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:I think it would be interesting to include both Intelligent Design/creationism and Darwin's Theory of Evolution in a school science curriculum as an example of what scientific method is, and is not. And what belief in received word is/is not. I think it would be useful to establish early in people's education the concepts of hypothesis/proof, Occam's razor, predictions/experiment/repeatability, the ideas of Karl Popper about succession of theories and so on. One benefit is that there might be less people inclined to use the phrase 'scientific fact'!

Evolution is not 'received truth' and it is not a fact. It is a theory, which does have some problems with evidence... but is currently accepted as the best 'scientific' one around.

Following the basic 'scientific principle' of Occam's razor, an omnipotent and (hopefully)intelligent creator can be postulated within scientific method as the simplest 'entity' explaining the observed phenomena: suitability to environment, functional complexity etc. It can't be science however if the possibility of 'disproving' it isn't allowed; if no other hypotheses are permitted.

It would also be useful for students to realise that it is a scientifically untenable leap to then say that an 'intelligent' creator is therefore associated with a particular religion, book, tribal story etc. When the only evidence for that is that it says so in the book. Or that people believe it.

Maybe I should get a teaching job in Kansas. I could say: "of course I believe in Intelligent design.. the Great Triple Breasted Goddess isn't Stupid!

*goes back to watching hundreds of monkeys typing Hamlet*


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning


Apparently, Science is no longer limited to finding natural explanations to physical phenomena.



And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the first official sign of the downfall of the American Empire.





Doc, I have the feeling I am missing an irony or in joke here.. confused Cos otherwise I don't understand what you are saying... How does creationism in schools bring down the Empire?



Scientific method is not a synonym for America! The American (or any other) Empire is based on cultural, economic and military domination, surely, not the niceties of the processes of proof.



Or are you meaning the rest of the world will now say 'oh, pfwah,rolleyes these peeps are epistemologically inappropriate, we'll have our world back now thanks?!?

Might work for turning off the telly, but, um, I can't see a smart bomb suddenly getting embarrased and going home... wink


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:new gabe, exactly how long do you think an empire with no science can last? without science we only advance by stealing, ergo everyone else will get new better things FIRST...

altho, as we already have enough nuclear power to destory teh world several times over......

so maybe you're right... but i really suspect enough stupid people can destroy themselves quite effectively...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:We had a "science and religion" theme - in religious education, not in science. We got told about Popper's theories and how science works.

Given that there is no RE in the States, maybe it would be best suited for philosophy, or whatever similar lectures there are. But who am I talking to... posting here isn't going to make the Kansas school board use their brains frown


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Classes in the US public school system: (read-> goverment funded schools)

1. Maths
2. Science (or what passes for it tongue)
3. "Social Studies" which in primary school teaches you things like what are firefighters and that there's other countries in the world and what have you, in middle school (our 6-8, brits 7-9) teaches some US history, some basic geography (you hope) some world culture stuff, and in our case we did some classic history as well (greece/rome). In high school (the last four years) there is some US history and some world history, and civics, and some high schools offer elective classes in psychology or what have you.
4. English. Starts out as spelling, writing, reading comprehension, moves on to teaching you to write papers and study literature classics and poetry.
5. Everything else becomes elective starting at year six (england's 7) anyway, except P.E...

I don't think our already overloaded attempt at social studies is going to cope with that... and i also think the presence of religion in our school boards is going to be too strong for it? to be honest i think primary school science is probably the best place to approach the subject! but, what can we do? :/
In my high school, which is one of the better ones, we still had no philosophy or religion electives offered on a regular basis, and the occasional religious studies elective was very very broad (focused a lot on islam if i recall, but otherwise was just "this exists, is generally practiced here")


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Written by: Kyrian


new gabe, exactly how long do you think an empire with no science can last? without science we only advance by stealing,







I think the Egyptians did pretty well for a few thousand years; with creator Gods and Goddesses by the bucket.



But you know, I don't hear that the Kansas types want to stop the understanding of chemistry, the advance of technology, development of weapons, the ability to steal etc... just the definition of what started it all off in the first place... and which brand of God we are supposed to buy while we're here...


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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KatP
KatP

Muddy fingernails
Location: Way oop norf
Member Since: 15th Jan 2005
Total posts: 505
Posted:Good grief.

As if it wasn't hard enough getting kids to understand science as it is, now they're going to confuse the poor little sods even further.
I can just see what would happen if some of my students heard of this: 'I don't have to learn this 'cos none of it is true anyway', and yes, I know that's not what they've said, but kids have the amazing ability to read into things just what they want to hear. At least the more obstreperous ones do.


Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

KITTENS!!!!

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i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:Well technically, KatP, if the little tykes ARE that smart than they should be able to say "I don't have ot learn this because none of it is true" anyway just by understanding the way science works and the big misnomer "scientific fact"... But I digress.

* Note: I am not a teacher, and can comment only from my experiences in school as a student, but...

Hey, I think it's great. Because now it's only a matter of time before people start suing over not being allowed to have THEIR religious creation story taught as science. Courts tend to be a bit more objective than boards, something about oversight commitees and stuff...


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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:indeed i8beefy2

Written by: newgabe

Maybe I should get a teaching job in Kansas. I could say: "of course I believe in Intelligent design.. the Great Triple Breasted Goddess isn't Stupid!




exactly!


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Domino
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Member Since: 26th May 2004
Total posts: 757
Posted:I can see ID happening, though you only have to scratch the surface to realise that "I" actually stands for "Idiot"



-- I'm not joking. Most things in biology are so poorly put together that it only a moron would design them that way. Perhaps the Creator was hungover...



I's been posted before but this is a good place to bring it it up again: Open letter to the Kanas Education Board

EDITED_BY: Domino (1131821727)


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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