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historian_of_fire_arts
historian_of_fire_arts

newbie

Member Since: 4th Oct 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:Greetings kindred spirits. I am reaching out to the Home of Poi community for help. I am writting a book on "The History of the Fire Arts" which will be an all inclusive understanding and appreciation of those who create, perform, build, and teach everything and anything that pertains to the fire arts. I am presently on the chapter that deals with the fire staff. I am familiar with the Polinesian culture that started 'fire knife' dancing in the mid thirties from Samoa that eventually made it's way to Fiji, Tahiti, New Zealand and, finally, Hawaii. I am also aware of fire staff spinning in India that began in the '60's. I have also heard stories of some forms of fire staff spinning in South America and even in Africa, but not yet confirmed. The informaton that I am seeking now is; who are the people responsible for inspiring the multitudes of 'white' people world wide to take up the fire staff. It appears to have begun in Australia in the late 80's or early 90's. If this is true, would someone be so kind as to direct me to anyone who might know who these people are. Their names, addresses, e-mail , websites; I'll take anything. If anyone should also know of any persons who were fire staff performing even earlier than the late 80's that was not bound to, or apart of, any ethnic identity, PLEASE let me know. To make this real simple, folks, I am looking for the first white people who wanted to adopt, take on, another cultures ethnic fire ritual and identity and ask them; why?
Someone knows and I really could use the info. Blessings to you all, and I hope to hear from you soon. Peace, Historian


The pen is mightier than the sword

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:I love the posative turn this thread has taken, thanks guys....

biggrin Fascinating to know where everyone started, and what inspires them now.



But, at the risk of pulling away from the part I am enjoying, I do want to pose a question, for Glass....



Drew, I love you dearly, ubblove and like Meg and many others, feel inclined to just take your word on things, and out of respect for you, follow your guidance on the subject of validity in the fire arts and juggling world.



However, that said, I do think that the accusations you make so strongly against the historian require substance to back them up. Many people do not know you well enough to just trust, and the person whose reputation is being attacked also deserves to have it laid out exactly why.You obviously know something the rest of us dont. But without saying what that is, and presenting it in a clear manner, what you said does risk becoming unsubstantiated slander of a sort that brings down the tone of any discussion, web forum or no.



So, please share with us the basis of your strong opinion. And I know it is not just spelling!!! ( or you and everyone else would have stopped corresponding with me by now!)

redface



I dont care about RH(just hope he is fine wherever he is ) , tho I think it is bad manners in general to speak negatively of someone when they are not present to respond. It is more important, if you attack someones credibility, as you have the historian, you should give the specifics of why. I also did not like the seeming direction of his project, but surely there must have been more than that ?



Please fill us in my friend, I would like to know

hugs,

Andrea

hug

EDITED_BY: andrealee (1132265694)


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:i was raised in a Ukrainian circus act, mistaking me for a rhesus monkey, i was trained in the back arts of fire staff and upholstery repair.
by age 20, i could perform a figure of eight and remove most stains from recliners and sofa-beds.

later liberated by animal rights activists in a bizarre incident where i was accidentally shaved, I bid farewell to my former master, overlord and flea bathers. They taught me much about Kafka, Ukrainian mini-golf and the simlarities between poi and multi-player tetris.
i moved into a bar fridge with a cantankerous parrot named Gustav. it did not last long, as gustav was unable to pay for rent or even code in PHP.

While sustaining a blow to the head whilst juggling bowling balls, i decided to join HoP where i proceeded to shamelessly make up fantasy about my twirling lineage and hygeine standards.

and they lived happilt ever after.
'cept for Gustav, the tax office finally got to him. thinking about ya, buddy. smile


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Frederick the Reckless
Frederick the Reckless

Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 5th Aug 2004
Total posts: 241
Posted:it was sort of inevitable for me. i had been self-trained in staff as a martail arts weapon for well over half my life by the time i met my first fire performer in 2001, a pretentious ass named conrad von drake. he let me use his staff, then once i got hooked, went out of his way to keep me off the stage... i started my troupe in 2003, and vowed never to "blackball" other performers as long as they were sober.
the venue we most commonly hit is SCA events, where we are icons in our kingdom... we did something unheard of at the time: we put on a SHOW. it used to be just poi, staff, and firebreathing. no one did anything else, and no one combined anything with anything else. fire dancing used to be a background activity in our kingdom, and it sort of just happened. they'd start, and people would come. they'd go without a word, and getting drummers was like pulling teeth. now, they ask when and where we'll be performing, and everyone gathers well before we show up to get the show going! the first thing i did to establish that we were different was to walk out with only one end of my staff lit, and people expected firebreathing. i breathed fire, sure -- and spun the other end of my staff into it, lighting it. we interacted verbally with the audience, and took our bows (none of the others in our kingdom did that before) and acknowledged the drummers and gave them credit (again, a first).
we added fire eating, whip, sword, flesh transfers, rope dart, fans, fingers and palmtorches, as well as flaming sword combat. we recently added sword swallowing to the show, and we have one of only eight female sword swallowers in the world that we know of. the only challenge we've had since we started is figuring out how to make the next year better than the last. i have never had more fun in my life.


Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:ubblol



Right - this is spinning generally as I've been spinning both on and off the whole time (other than the first 6 months or so I think).......



Dec 2001: Saw someone spinning poi from afar on a beach and thought oooooo! Registered on HoP where I learned everything (in isolation, in my garden, in winter, alone.......*sob*) and didn't meet/see an actual spinner for many many months.



Spring 2002: Met Mister Cantus J Fraggle and was inspired to learn some staff.



2002: Went to a few Claphams and practiced poi and staff a lot - got VERY solid basics in both and was blown away by PK, Drew, Kato, Dom, Knox and Bammers and was too shy and embarassed to spin in front of any of them. Cass was a big inspiration this year smile (but that's poi...)



Also went to my favourite Glastonbury (so far) and had an extraordinary amount of fun with mister Strugz, Misstix and Noods. Met Pyrophile in a drunken stupor at the stone circle. Met Bluecat though he doesn't remember tongue and watched Tree and Steve from afar ubbrollsmile Picked up doubles for the first time inspired by Strugz (who at that time wasn't really sure what to do with them either!)



Must have met Bluecat sometime at a PiP in 2002/2003? Help confused Big influences: Tempests (mostly Liam), Kato, Fraggle...



2003: More PiP's, Claphams, a few CD's full of vids from Drew n PK aided me in my learning and Cantus taught me lots more double staff. Went n spun fire at NinjaDave's house (prophet etc...) which he thought was 'cool' rolleyes Learned poi waistwraps from Drew. Jon UCOF got ULTRA good and he n Cam n Simian made me think lots - even if I didn't quite manage to act on it..... Kinda stopped for a while.



Autumn 2003: Went travelling - without toys. They somehow found me again. Met and inspired by Valura, Arsn, Pixies, Bender (*drool*) and Bovril, people on beaches/mountains etc.... Taught a lot of poi to beginners but didn't seem to be in the mindset to learn much - though ultra imporant time for my confidence to start to grow, esp. around other spinners (previously non-existant).



Summer 2004: Came back and fell over when I saw Dave. Chilled with Oli a bit. Watched BlueMog vids and felt like giving up! (sorry tis true)....... Falmouth made me happy but I didn't spin much - watched and failed to learn! Insert big Benjamin influence here.



Winter 2004: Garth, Oli n Mike massive inspirations. Also Ross and Dunc. And Strugz again - (ongoing!). Met Sandy at Circus Society n dragged him to Sheffield. Couldn't even start to understand the contact he was doing........... Nx made my head go fuzzy. Somehow got rather disillusioned with the whole spinning thing again.



2005: Sandy n Bluecat both had lots of input but I haven't made the most of it. Also Stickman (in Germany) and FP/Fabby in Ireland with their doubles. Ronan's spinning gave me goosebumps. Andy, Meenik n Arashi - Falmouth again - wowowowow - and Imakokode and Olive as far as doubles/multistaff goes (something else I haven't played with).



Summer 2005: Rediscovered why I spin in Germany. Still stands true. Mucho more happy fairy biggrin



Phew! Long, I'm afraid, but was interesting to compile. I might add to it in private as a memory exercise or something ubbrollsmile



Main Lineage = Cantus, Drew, Strugz, PK, Cassanda, Bluecat


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Hmmm... Spinning lineage... *discliamer* You ain't gonna want to read all this...



It all started when I was a young lad, about ten or eleven... I was playing over my friend's house when I saw his older brother playing with his devilsticks. Being young, and wanting to impress the older, bigger people, I asked if I could have a go. He taught me the basics, like idling, throws, Helicopter etc. Spent most of my spare time playing with Devilsticks.



I moved out of that area in about 1996, took my devilsticks with, and never really found anyone else who enjoyed the same hobby as me, but carried on devilsticking now and again, until I accidentally sat on them, and broke them. At the time, I could find nowhere that sold them, so forgot all about it until about three years ago in camden, when I stumbled across Oddballs. I bought another set of devilsticks, And picked up where I left off. A friend of mine got some fire poi for christmas, and I found out I could do the weave, really really fast wink and ended up dislocating my collarbone doing so eek developed a fear for them after that...



After a year of doing the same propellor and helicopter variant tricks, I saw some fire devilsticks on the internet, and bought me a set!! I had loads of fun doing the same old tricks... Threough Firetoys.com, I became acquainted with Durbs, and went along to a happy Thursday. Saw all these people do some really cool stuff with Fire that I had only dreamed about before...



This was also the first time I had seen contact Juggling after seeing it in the labyrinth for years. I watched Durbs intently, and decided it was so cool, that I just HAD to have a go. Durbs showed me a few isolations, and showed me the way to Butterfly a ball Either of which I never quite got, but retained the methods in my head for quite a while.



Started uni the following month. Met a fellow devilsticker called Chris Adams, (also known as Simon Trance) who taught me things like the weave and other cool tricks with a devilstick. Went to juggling society, and found an acrylic in their Bag of tricks. Played with it a while, and found I could just about manage an isolation or two, so went and bought my own ball. Taught myself the butterfly, and some basic armrolls and isolations, assisted by Durbs via the magic of internet/video.



Met PyroWill through the net, and he came to visit, and taught me how to do my very first reverse three beat weave at sheffield last year. AT the same place, Durbs taught me how to palmspin, and do some funky new armrolls.



Spent the rest of the uni year teaching myself contact from videos, and chatting to durbs, and all over the place really... Working out what was possible, people asking me if I could do stuff, and me getting disheartened when I said No, so I went and made myself learn stuff.



Back to guildford at christmas, And met the guildford lot properly, and began to feel like I was part of their group. learnt more poi from Durbs, and yoinked some of his moves with a ball...



Back at uni, and taught myself more body rolls, more bits of poi (such as airwraps and hyperloops after the seed was planted by Durbs). Pyrowill came over for another play, and brought his staffs. I had a go, Found out I could pass it behind my back and give it a basic spin, and was hooked. He kindly gave me one of his staffs.



Went to york and bradford's juggling conventions, and learned more CJ from people I met there, along with some more poi. Met Pich at Bradford, who Showed me some really nice Isolations with a ball.



Carried on learning CJ, and poi, and played with staffs. I'd seen people in videos do some contact, and taught myself a halo and neck roll, etc...



Then Came Fal3. Wow. Never had I seen so much talent in one place. Met DsAds. Pretty much worshipped the ground he walked on for a weekend. learnt SO MUCH from him. learnt more poi and CJ from Durbs, And picked up a little inspiration from everyone there. That was where I first learned to Fishtail a DS and other stuff.



After more playing at uni, I returned to Guildford. Religiously attended spin meets. Absorbed so much from Durbs, Mr Confused and all the guildford guys really, that it was unbelievable. Durbs taught me anti spin, just by me watching him. I would watch him CJ So intently, and picked up so much more of that from him. Ogre Tim and Strugz taught me some more contact staff. I did pretty much nothing for a summer but play around with my toys.



Then Came Fal 4, and PLAY, and that was awesome. Meeting Bluecat, MCP, Drew, Fluff, Arashi, Mags, Meenik, in fact, everyone there again inspired some of my spinning.



At the end of my Summer, I went to Hastings, and met Aime, and Colin J. Aime helped me bring out my silly side even more, And colin... well. Him and I sat on the beach and bounced off each other so often, coming up with variations between us, and being a bit silly, too. He was the one who finally got me to start with some body waving.



And here we are now.



Wow. What a huge F*cking essay. I could say that I was inspired/taught by EVERYONE. But I have to say my main influence has been Durbs. Followed By Colin. Pyrowill is the one that got me into poi and staff properly. And all that in the last year and a bit, too...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Colin J
Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 24th May 2005
Total posts: 116
Posted:what an odd thread.

I don't consider myself a spinner, and when I try to think about where my lineage lay, Its seems very pic n' mix.

I just got mixed up in the juggling comunity around my area because a friend of mine was a juggler and went to the local juggling club. After grinding out basic patterns with 3ball, I invaribly ended up hanging around and kept learning from my mate and the circus club. back in 00/01

by 02 I was on the cj tip and was well into raiding all the juggling videos the internet had to provide. One of the old skool dudes (Andy Dinsdale) at the club taught me the cross and follow with clubs.

I probably seen loads of spinners at some conventions along the way but didn't pay any attention to it really until maybe this year sometime. But the bcjc was very very cool. That Isolation workshop has kept me busy to this day. As was my first bjc.

Actually I don't think anyone directly taught me a single thing spinning wise since Andy untill this Summer. When LTC taught me some contact staff, I did try to get Glass to give me a low down on snakes, but that never actually happened.

And LTC, I have Durbs as an influence aswell, he made me go bounce . And don't forget it was US that were bouncing stuff off each other, so you have to be one of my influences/co-inspire-ers too. Along with off the top of my head, Silver Paul, Ryan M, Elsewhere, Glass, every really slick 3baller/contacter/popper/(insert activity)er I've ever seen.


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historian_of_fire_arts
historian_of_fire_arts

newbie

Member Since: 4th Oct 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:I have decided to scrap the idea of a web site for RH. I don't have the time, nor his permission. I am happy for the turn of events for this thread; much more positive. So I will add to the current theme the information that has been given to me by RH's brother who has given me permission to do so. Please keep an open mind and heart, if that is how you see yourselfs.

ROBERT HEART

History:

-RH began spinning a 36 pound steel staff in 1975 for four years.
1977-1979 performed at Renaissance fairs throughout the west coast as, "Guess the weight of me stave".
-He began to train with a wood staff in 1979 in the mountains of Northern California, and in remote areas of Hawaii.
-RH is completely self-taught. No martial arts acadamies, books, or teachers.
-RH first began to teach staff/s in 1980 in Chico, Calif.
-RH has never charged for a lesson, ever! Thousands of lessons world wide have been given. Think about that. Boy, what an ego that does that. Only the humble charge right?
-RH performed "Celtic Staff Spinning', with wooden staffs only, at festivals and fairs from 1980-1984. 'The Mad Staffer'.
-RH came up with an idea to put fire on his staff, using asbestos wicking, (without any knowledge that people did this I am told), in the Spring of 1984, in Chico Calif..
-RH did his first fire dance, (without even one practice), at his birthday party, July 27, 1984, in Chico. The wicking on his staffs, by looking at the pictures), were roughly two feet at each end, with the staffs being about 5' in length.
-RH did his first PROFESSIONAL fire dance at the Intercontinental Hotel on Maui on Sep. 1, 1984.
After three shows, RH was 'blacklisted' from performing at any luau,(In Hawaii!), when local fire dancers saw him as a threat.
-RH did private parties for the next two years,(Tina Turner, Tom Sellick, Tony D'anza, Willie Nelson, Yes, Carol King, etc.), for 'Partygrams'.
-RH did his first 'busking' fire street show at the base of the Twin Towers in NYC on July 2, 1986.
-RH began his street performing career by performing in Vancouver, Canada, for Expo and at English Bay, for the rest of the summer of 1986.
-RH busked throughout Europe, for the first time, in the summer of 1987. (Holland, France, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, England, Austria, Belgium and finally Scotland for the Edinburgh festival). He taught wherever he went.
-RH arrived in Australia for the Bicentennial Celebration on Oct.5, 1987, and toured,(busked) the country for six months.(Sydney, Brisbane, Byron Bay, Surfers Paradise, Townsville, Canberra, Melborne, Adelaide, Perth, and Freemantle; with many little towns in between. He taught wherever he went.
-RH arrived in Thailand and began to teach fire staff spinning to the Thai, in Phuket, April 1988.
-RH arrived back in Australia, Sep. 1988.
-Performed and taught staff at Confest 1988-89.
-RH began to pitch, toss and pass a staff to his performance partner, Paul Soul, in Bali, in May of 1989.
-RH,s 1st Buskers Festival, Halifax, 1989
-RH toured New Zealand for their 150 year celebration.(Sesquicentennial) (Auckland, Wellington, Nelson, Christchurch, and Queenstown). Jan.-April, 1991
He taught wherever he went.
-RH has done just about every busking festival in Canada.
-RH invented the 'Spinbo' in 1994. A spinning staff designed to be as safe as possible, for those who wish to spin a staff fast while attempting difficult tricks without the fear of pain's influence.
-RH discovered, (for himself and his fiance!) how to pass, pitch, toss, (one and two staffs), in many new and different ways and combinations, beginning May of 1995.
-The Spinbo was marketed by HPK Marketing out of Hawaii for 8 months. (HPK was responsible for the massive resurgence in popularity of the Yo Yo in the late 90's; remember the "Yo Yo with a brain!"). May - Dec., 1998.
-RH attends his 1st Burning Man, 1999.
-RH discovers, (for himself!), a new form of staff manipulation which he calls 'staff juggling' or 'Airial Staff'. Chaing Mai, Thailand, Jan., 2000.
-RH decides to put his attention into marketing the Spinbo, by himself, to the juggling community. Beginning: Davis, Calif. Feb., 2001.

-RH trains Josh Thompson in Thailand, Feb.-March. On MAY 5th, 2001, RH and Josh discover how to juggle/pass FOUR SPINNING STAFFS, between each other, in SIX different combinations. The most amazing video footage of staff spinning I have ever seen!, or anything else that I have ever seen at B.M..

-RH demonstrates his new/old style of staff spinning for the 1st time, on stage, at the opening ceremonies of the 2001 EJC in Rotterdam, Holland. The response is 'explosive'. An estimated 200 people attend his workshops for the next week.
-RH begins to build and sell hightech Spinbo's to the juggling community for the next two years until his disappearence.

Accomplishments/awards/recognitions/etc.:

-Closing act for the dedication of 'The Lotus Shrine' celebration in Virginia. July, 1986.
-Winner, busking compitition, Edinburgh Festival, 1987.
-Winner, Bicentennial busking compitition, New Years Eve, Adelaide, Australia, 1987-88
-First person to be given written permission to perform on site of the Sydney Opera House as a street performer. Dec.,1987.
-Closing act for the final show, 'Symphony In The Park', of the Australian Bicentennial Celebration, (at the end of the Sydney City Celebration), on Jan. 30, 1989. 20,000 people in attendance.

-IMPORTANT!!!! pay REEEAAAALLLL close attention. When RH finished his performance on stage, he invited the audience of 20,000 to walk up to the stage and put money in his hat, (big bucket), as that he wanted to set a record for a single 'hat' made for a busking performance. The next day, he took the entire amount, $1,500.00, down to the children's hospital and donated it to the 'burn ward unit' of the hospital.
For the next 5 years,('89-'94), RH organized street performers to donate one night of a busking festival, 'Fire Night', where all performers who can do something with fire, will perform and then pass hats after the show, with all proceeds being donated to the 'burn ward' of the local children's hospital the next day!
The word got around and soon many more street performing festivals were doing the same thing, raising ten's of thousands of dollars for charity purposes over the years, while making street performers look REALLY GOOD to the communities that host such a festival.
WHAT A [censored]!!!

WAIT, WAIT, it gets BETTER! Apparently, as Mr. Heart traveled throughout Australia and New Zealand, he was dismayed to learn that the people of Australia and New Zealand had never heard of, (common-knowledge-in-America), the 'Stop, Drop, and Roll' technique for fire protection. Feeling that this was important information, wherever RH performed, if a child/children were present, he made it a point to inform and then demonstrate for the audience, the 'Stop, Drop, and Roll' technique. RH also made it a point to seek out local government officials and inform them of the technique and how nice it would be if they would consider adopting a policy to have the local schools also be informed. So successful was Mr.Heart's endeavors, that the governments of Australia and New Zealand felt obliged to send letters of 'acknowledgement and appreciation'
for his efforts.
STRING HIM UP!!!
More:
-RH dove head first off of the Kawarra Bridge in Queenstown, New Zealand, spinning two flaming fire staffs, becoming the first bungy jumper to ever do this. AJ Hackett and Company. 1991
-RH was hired to be the sole entertainer for Michael Jackson's private birthday party in Copenhagen, Denmark, during Michael's
'History' tour in August 1997.
-RH was given the honor of being the first act on stage to bring in the New Millennium for the Downtown Los Angeles Millennium Celebration that was seen by over 1 BILLION people on Fox and ABC Networks. RH was viewed for 5 seconds as a solo artist.
NEWYEARS 2000.

So this is a little history and some of the main highlights of Mr. Heart's career.
90% of which have been completely verified by all of the means hence forth laid down by me early on within this thread. But I don't expect that any of you should believe me. Instead, I have come up with a novel plan.

I am willing to make up SEVEN packages that will contain most of the information that I have just presented, along with video examples of Mr. Heart,s talents as a fire performer and staff pioneer. HERE'S THE DEAL. they are NOT to go to ANYONE who has made it a point to ASSASSINATE his character through cruel and vicious GOSSIP or to anyone who would justify or condone such slanderous behavior. In case you missed the point of my last posting, the ISSUE is NOT Robert, but the evil that tries to justify cruelty towards others who are not allowed to defend themselves. That's why I am a vegan. That's why I don't smoke. That's why I eat organic. That's why I look so thin.
"Thin is 'in'".

First, I nominate i8beefy2, Arashi, and Sandy. I'll leave the other four up to you. Also, the assassins can not nominate anyone. Wolves hunt in packs. Safety in #'s you see. No one wants to drop in on a thread when the wolves are feeding.They also burrow in dark dens where no one sees their faces, especially at their web sites. How interesting that coincidence is.

I have chosen to speak for RH since no one else would. And it has been an honor to do so, especially when he is so respected in the busking community. His 'example' speaks so much louder than his critics words do.
Because I have, I will be accused of being him. I'll take that as a compliment.
I am sure that there will be people who will now do anything they can to discredit me. I'll take THAT as a compliment too.

I am surprised that no one has come forward to suggest that maybe THEY were in a bad mood when they met RH, or that maybe they were influenced by others of what to expect, and were the first to be rude to him. Or jealous of him. Are you all so perfect in everything that you do? I'm not. I'm sort of glad about that.
I
I have spoken up for someone who was a member of your community BEFORE he was attacked. Some might try to justify their cruelty by saying that he wasn't 'active'. The charter that you have all agreed to states "NO MEMBER SHALL SPEAK..." which RH most certainly is, and has been for OVER 30 years. I am taking about the community of fire lovers and staff lovers, the spirit of which, you can not deny Robert. I am sure if he was here, he would be the first to apologize to anyone who has been harmed by his actions or words. I am also sure that his intentions were never TO harm anyone. Please forgive him. He might come back if you do. I know I would like that, just so I can know that he's alright.

The seven that you agree on, if proof be necessary to you, can post here, or at my PM, or at my e-mail: ruckandrule@yahoo.com

May the war end in our hearts.


The pen is mightier than the sword

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:if u have video footage why not just put it online so everyone can see it rather than the 7 individuals ur going to post stuff to?

on your rather exhaustive list you forgot to add when robert defied the laws of physics and spun a staff at 90 mph it was one of the things he had on his website before it drifted into oblivion wink

luckily the web seems to cache everything
http://www.lasvegastalentregistry.com/Registry/other/Misc/Robert%20Heart/robertheart.htm
br> The qualities and aspects of my show are as follows:
*World's largest flaming fire staffs (6 feet long with 2 feet of wicking on both ends)
*Twirling speeds up to 90 m.p.h.
*The juggling of 2 five foot fire staffs


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Oh I love you mr historian:

-RH trains Josh Thompson in Thailand, Feb.-March. On MAY 5th, 2001, RH and Josh discover how to juggle/pass FOUR SPINNING STAFFS, between each other, in SIX different combinations. The most amazing video footage of staff spinning I have ever seen!, or anything else that I have ever seen at B.M..

You need to get out more. Your capitals or somebody elses?

SpinBO, wow, it was marketed by the company that launched the yo-yo, but still failed to catch on? Maybe it was just a length of metal with tennis balls on the ends?

So you're not going to try to change the minds of those who have already made their opinion felt? (notably those who have met him) How noble of you.

And I mean, none of us have ever done any charity work, period. And anybody that does charity work is obviously a saint. G'damn! Now I know where I've been going wrong!

Okay, I'll let somebody intelligent reply now.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:I'll nominate me!!
;-)


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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TheApprovingNinja
TheApprovingNinja

From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 8th Jul 2003
Total posts: 371
Posted:And thus we delve back in.

Yes Mr. Heart has done some great things, Yes he donated a lot of money to charity, I think that's beautiful. Okay he's a done a huge set of gigs for many many famous people. Undoubtedly there are some great sides to his character.

Unfortuantely I only got to see one side that I did not cotton well to and neither did many of the other people that met him. His style was loud and brash and very very american (once again not ripping into americans I am one) which didn't fit in with the type of people who were at the EJC. Mostly extremely chilled out hippies.

So he taught people for free, yes he did teach a robert heart staff workshop every single day at the european which was great and he introduced many people to the art of staff and his teaching style while a little military did get people spinning, he also wore a polo neck shirt with "workshop leader" embroidered on it. Little details like this are what niggled many people. A bunch of chilled out hippies many of whom have done things equaling if not more amazing than robert heart were all astounded at his arrogance.

I also have taught many workshops at juggling conventions and in fact just taught 3 people how to spin staff at the juggling club last night, and the only money I charge is for the hire of the space which i chip in for as well. No one I've ever met has charged for spinning lessons with the exception of uberstaff which was a high intensity training weekend.

While he has done many things he did not invent staff. His website claims physically impossible things.

I'm sure that he has great traits but the person that was exhibted to me and to my friends was not the person who you make him out to be which is a saint. He's a human being with human greatnesses and human weakness and no one desrves to have the internet hate him and I'm genuinely sorry that I started that first thread oh so long ago.


Viva UGLY STAFF

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T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:note on the porper subject: think your trying to force an answer for a question that has no answers. It seems highly improbable that one person was the first the set fire to a staff and wave it round and then it all sprung for him. but am sure someone in the last 5 pages (that I haven't bothered to read) has try to explain this so am not going to wink



anyway the part of this thread I have bothered to read is peoples personal history so here my...



2001 went to uni and found circusoc. over the next three years put 10 times more effort into this then anything degree related biggrin



2002 went to the BJC and brought some fire clubs and my mate Jeremy brought a fire staff. I spent the rest of the weekend droping my clubs wheil he had far more sucess with his staff. when I got back made myself a set of doubles and so I started my jouney into staffing...



when I got back to bristol found out mike (psi) had also picked up a staff at over easter so we've been bouncing moves back and forth scene



november 2002 meet drew and BOB convention who show me my first bit of contact.



2003 in no particarl order: made a routine with my house mate ben (King of Bongo) which we performed at the EJC with tepooker and flame oz (f**king scarey for a first performance) had a wicked spin at clampham with Tom [Nx?] and another later that year with Dave Knox. Meet Rob (BC) at the bristol con and went to his contact workshop where I raped him for as many moves as I could squeeze out of him tongue . also ment Tim (ogre), Cam and Bam Bam this year and stole lots from each.

don't have the matix solid



2004 taught a contact staff workshop at the EJC in france which turn into a trick swap between me a Kyle McLean smile (think I got some vids from then which i might dig out two show these British spinner how to spin)

still haven't got the matix solid.



2005 still haven't got the matix solid.



2006 maybe i'll get the matix but I dout it smile



so the people who have been my main infuences in getting me into staff were Jeremy, Mike, Drew, Ben, Tom, Dave, Rob and Kyle McLean



other staff spinner I've meet and that have infunced me more recently: Meg, Stugz, Sandy, Adam, Chris, Olive, Julian, Simian... (instert name here if you think it should be wink )


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:and I don't think I was harsh enough in my previous post so I'm going to write this:

-RH began spinning a 36 pound steel staff in 1975 for four years.

yeah, shame he stopped learning new moves, like, a month after he started.

biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Written by: historian_of_fire_arts


RH began spinning a 36 pound steel staff in 1975 for four years.







then some 25 years later..................



Written by: historian_of_fire_arts


RH discovers, (for himself!), a new form of staff manipulation which he calls 'staff juggling' or 'Airial Staff'. Chaing Mai, Thailand, Jan., 2000.





Look i dont know anything about this robert heart guy - apart from the fact the Rubber Heart duo got thier name from him ubblol however for such an aparant staffing pioneer - how the hell did it take him 25 years to realise he could actually throw the staff too confused



ubblol





"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:confused

sorry but like bender said all we see are reflections of ourselves. just because someone doesn't do the things you consider to be "evolved" doesn't mean they aren't. i -still- think you are full of [censored] and hubris when you think that contact staff is the only substantial staffing. seriously, guys, get over it! i bet you robert heart has some serious frickin foreams. why is one not cool unless they do what you do? shut the frick up! and write me something funny on tribe or something. OK m,aybe he's asking for it but... you're asking for it now too tongue


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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TheApprovingNinja
TheApprovingNinja

From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 8th Jul 2003
Total posts: 371
Posted:nicely said

Viva UGLY STAFF

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Zauberdach
Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 10th Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:I'm still waiting for Historian to admit that he is Robert Heart...

IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Written by: Zauberdachs


I'm still waiting for Historian to admit that he is Robert Heart...





Me too...



I've never known anybody stick up for another person (that they don't know quite well/never met or spoken to etc etc, Whatever the case may be) that much... Surely, having studied Psychology so intensely, you would be able to see and understand what we perceive from this behaviour...?



And am I right in saying that no-one else but you has suggested this, until now? or am I not reading all the posts correctly?



Maybe Robert Heart is trying to see what people really think of him, and is trying to change people's opinions of him, or even convince them that he's right.



Plus, myself reading his posts, they're extremely hard to read, and to me are extremely difficult to follow, or even see what he's trying to say... I shudder to think how difficult and sleep inducing the actual book will/would be...



Maybe Robert Heart is trying to see what people really think of him, and is trying to change people's opinions of him, or even convince them that he's right.



Unfortunately, there aren't many spinners that would be convinced by such a claim... I certainly have never met the guy, but refuse to believe firespinning was introduced to australia within the past century, let alone three decades...



And being the one that realised 'hang on, I can throw this thing...' Come on. Who is anyone trying to kid making a statement like that? umm



As it stands, I agree with Drew. And no amount of agressive replies are gonna make me think otherwise. They just make people laugh at you more.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Anyway, I was enjoying reading how people got into spinning. Can't we go back to that sub-topic too?



It was nice seeing just how modest EVERYONE here is... Even the 'modern legends' themselves...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:I met with him an lot lot of others 2003EJC. Respect . Wish he's well.

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Ha!

good thread.

I dont give a monkeys who started fire spining.

but the bunfight is intresting.

Im not going to take a view, cos I never met him, tho I will be a referance for blucats mild-manneredness and also for the unusual spelling in glasses post (tho if it comes to spelling correction then cantus is your man)

as for lineage....

staff came from Abby, some girl I knew in colledge, she taught me fig 8 and then I got the rest myself, and by collaberating in text with blue and glass mostly. And charles Dolble, of course hug

poi came from the same girl, forwards weave, then poipoipoi taught me backwards weave, after that the influences go coleman, blucat, PK and glass. with arashi coming up in the rear ( eek ) by mincing my head with words I dont understand.

contact juggling is all glass, with blue for encoragement.

juggling, well, that was just everyone really, juggle master java has a lot to do with it.

so, my lineage list goes.

Bluecat, coleman, glass, Chales Doble and most importantly CubeFX.

later.

T wave

p.s. Knox has gotta be in there somewhere, but only breifly! wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Poi came from Maories.



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:Written by: arashi

why is one not cool unless they do what you do? shut the frick up! and write me something funny on tribe or something. OK m,aybe he's asking for it but... you're asking for it now too tongue



staff is staff, dance is dance, staff+dance=art
art+negative ego of the artist taints the perception of the beholder

sharing what you love is very different to trying to find self worth in the eyes of others


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:i think ive learnt something of some description from everyone ive met however having met hundreds of spinners while travelling the thought of listing them all is a little daunting so ive tried to list people who have helped open my eyes to new worlds of possibilities

2002
i was first introduced to staff around june by a friend who taught a fitness class that used staff to warmup the arms and shoulders. i spun pretty much in isolation until november when i met a group of spinners who spun at the park around the corner from my house however the group pretty much died a few weeks after i came for the first time except from 3 or 4 of us.

2003
the weekly spinning with dave (madhatteronfire), kevin, tikky occasionally with a new person in june i finally decided to have a look at hop, i had learnt most of the free lessons and thought that was all there was to spinning except for spinning really really really fast. the fire nights slowly grew and lots of fireys came out of the wood works. sometime around sept my whole concept of spinning was shattered by watching drew and staff. I spent the next long while trying to learn contact by watching video after video over and over and over and over, which yeilded much pain and very very very slow progress. met josh and kate at earthcore in november

2004
met knox at the fringe festival and my knowledge of contact trippled in the first afternoon of spinning in the park. luckily i videoed everything so i could practise it all later. At some point i picked up doubles a little, josh showed me some nice patterns. in june i went to the uk and met lots of amazing spinners. my style was large influenced by,
contact - bluecat, mcp, glass, simian, knox, approving ninja, tenticle, mushy pea steve, T&B, PSI
doubles - knox, bluecat, strugz, bambam, PSI
later saw a video of FNF spinning doubles and was very wow then on reflection was very frown that on the occassions we had met she had said she didnt know anything she could teach me spank

2005
met kyle and had my concept of contact changed once again
Tyr introduced me to contact solid crosses which blew my mind (still havnt mad myself a set yet frown)


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:Written by: arashi


confused

. i -still- think you are full of censored and hubris when you think that contact staff is the only substantial staffing.







ubblol there is no substantial staffing dude - who told you that, certanly wasnt me ubblol



Written by: arashi


why is one not cool unless they do what you do?





Dude im not sure this was aimed at me - and im not real sure where its coming from either - i dont do "cool" myself, i think thats an american thing ubblol



I was just pointing out that it took 25 years for someone to learn how to throw a stick!!



censored i mean cave men could work that out!................ im not so sure about texans now though wink



& what is tribe anyway?



biggrin


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Maybe he's talking about the PC game, which is pretty good. Although it is called "Tribes" so I don't know. rolleyes

On the topic: I'm slightly bored by the insults, sarcasm and non-productiveness that inevitably is included and follows any post by HOTFA. Agree to disagree, please? smile

On the "Sub-Topic" (what a great way to go off topic while calling it "Semi official"!! biggrin ): Here's the shortest summary of a career you've seen yet.

April: (this year... told you...) I had a friend who juggled, and she took me to a Juggling Society in Carlisle. Saw someone spinning Staff and the next day I made myself a practice one out of an old lightsaber staff.

June?: I went to Southampton and met a few of the Soton Spinners. Not many though... no-one turned up frown

July: Fal4. Insane. It is my own personal goal to spin half as well as some of the people I saw there. Kudos to ninja Dave, Meg, Strugz, Mags and everyone else who rocks sith. Also made me pick up Poi for the first time.

October: Came to Uni in York. Joined Juggling soc. Disappointed that I am the best staff spinner there, because there still isn't anyone to teach me frown Back to Meg's site again methinks.

And how much of a beginner do I feel now, after reading about some of these HoPpers and how long they've been doing it? rolleyes


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:"RH did his first fire dance, (without even one practice), at his birthday party, July 27, 1984, in Chico. The wicking on his staffs, by looking at the pictures), were roughly two feet at each end, with the staffs being about 5' in length."

eek angry

That is stupid and irresponsible. Spinning sticks like those, with that much fire, "without even one practice" is nothing short of suicidal.
That gives a terrible example to new fire spinners and only encourages them to use a dangerous ammount of fire after a little, or in this case, no practise at all.
I am shocked and disgusted that someone who holds themselves in such a revered light, and who states thay have a flawless safety record would do something as stupid as this.

ON a side note: "An estimated 200 people attend his workshops for the next week." - Unless im mistaken (I wasnt there but heard about it), wernt half of those 200 people simply standing there with their sticks balanced on their head in protest of Mr Hearts attitude? umm

"RH dove head first off of the Kawarra Bridge in Queenstown, New Zealand, spinning two flaming fire staffs, becoming the first bungy jumper to ever do this. AJ Hackett and Company. 1991" - *Has had the idea of doing a bungee jump whilst eating toast, therefore meaning he can claim to be the first person to bungee jump whilst eating toasted bread products* umm Its hardly an accomplishment is it? Its doing one thing...at the same time as another... much like picking your nose and farting.

"RH was hired to be the sole entertainer for Michael Jackson's private birthday party" - I wouldnt go advertising that if I were you wink

"90% of which have been completely verified" Why include points that havent been verified? confused Thats like me stating "I am actually God and you will treat me so unless you find any evidence saying otherwise".

"busking community" - Which one? He certainly isnt in any of the UK ones... umm

"the ISSUE is NOT Robert, but the evil that tries to justify cruelty towards others who are not allowed to defend themselves. That's why I am a vegan. That's why I don't smoke. That's why I eat organic. That's why I look so thin.
"Thin is 'in'"." - No, seriously, WTF? confused

"1 BILLION people on Fox and ABC Networks." ubblol ubblol ubblol Aaaaaaaaah-reckon. I seriously doubt even 1/7 of the worlds population even own a tv.

www.tribe.net is what its all about.

Woah! Has anyone noticed:


Non-Https Image Link


=


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:please, let us move on from diss-cussing this guy.
perhaps we can all agree that we've spent enough energy on him and are ready to share about other twirlers.... even from other cultures...
historian, you are right in that the guy's influence spans continents and decades, but surely even that doesn't represent most of the history of twirling.. the emphasis on him in this discussion would suggest otherwise.

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Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:*zips his "hat" up*


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Zauberdach
Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 10th Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:It was getting interesting, but then Robert Heart *ahem*, I mean historian, keeps jumping in to carry the conversation back to himself...I mean Robert Heart...

confused confused2 umm confused

Carry on smile


IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

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