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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:While people are still buzzing about the London explosions, I thought it might be interesting to mention...

The death toll for the suicide car bombings in Egypt is now up to 88.
So, it's not just the more forefrontal countries targetted.

A 6.0 Earthquake injured 27 people, discovered thusfar, just outside of Tokyo.

The U.S. is being hit with record high temperatures that are killing people in areas where the crazy running wildfires are not the main concern.

Archeologists discover the body of a child as an Atzec sacrifice to their god of war, which apparently is rare because normally warrior heart were given, not children.

So apparently, from reading the news I can surmise....

The human race has been violent since day one, and it isn't going to change, no matter what gods we pray to or how we socially evolve and that if fellow man doesn't get us, mother nature will.

Remind me again, why did I read the news?

Where the hell are the happy reports about people at the beach playing to cool themselves to beat the heat?
Or stories of the people helping others, because they want to not because religion or karma dictate it?
What happened to the feel good news?

I agree with Andrew Weil. The news isn't really worth reading anymore. It just causes more stress.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:What we can summise from the stories that you have mentioned is...

Global warming is getting worse - Even if his own citizens die, George 'mountain bike' Bush isnt going to agree that we need to do something about it.

We can report an earthquake to the entire world in seconds through the technology that we have developed but we haven't actually discovered (due to lack of funding into this area of science) a way of predicting them or even giving ourselves a bit of warning.

Religion is, and has always been, very little more than a glorified reason to argue and / or cause harm to others.

The human race is not essentially violent. Religion is.
Mother nature gives us fair warning. If we choose to ignore it, thats our own fault.

If I was in charge the world would be soooooooo much better.
{sits back and looks smug}
wink


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Posted:I second the motion of Seye as supreme commander of the world and all who dwell within it.



The news is so hypocritical. It says muslims dont deserve a bad reputation from the terrorists actions but in the same broadcast they make constant references to " Islamic extremists "

Why does it matter if they are christian or islamic exremists?

Cant they just leave it at terrorists and not mention religions.


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Pele


Remind me again, why did I read the news?

Where the hell are the happy reports about people at the beach playing to cool themselves to beat the heat?
Or stories of the people helping others, because they want to not because religion or karma dictate it?
What happened to the feel good news?

I agree with Andrew Weil. The news isn't really worth reading anymore. It just causes more stress.



I agree, the news is grossly unbalanced towards portraying negativity.

Where the London terror attack was concerned, the media pretty much devoted all their resources to covering, and going over and over again, forgoing pretty much everything else.

Given that a prime motivation for terror attacks is to get loads of publicity, it seems to me that this is just giving the terrorists what they want; as well as promoting fear and paranio amongst the public.

I think the British are just so used to the media focus on bad news, that they just don't realise the effect it has on them.

Years ago I pretty much stopped reading newspapers because of their lack of balance- obviously bad things happen, and we need to know about them, but good things happen too, and the proportions of the two as seen by the media is completely skewed, with little resemblance to reality.

Perhaps if the media had some idea of how many people had stopped bothering with the news for this reason; they'd maybe start reporting more on the positive stuff.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Posted:Good point. They only report on important things that they think effect us. We notice how bad things effect us and concentrate on these effects but the effects of good things are not noticed and taken for granted.

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gita
SILVER Member since Oct 2003

gita

.:*distracted by shiny things*:.
Location: brizvegas

Total posts: 3776
Posted:i knew there was a reason i didn't watch the news! i don't even buy the paper anymore...

do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good to eat!

if at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished!

smile! grin it confuses people!

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Arty Farty
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

Arty Farty

I wear yellow on monday
Location: Farnham Ahoy

Total posts: 551
Posted:when i think about it, im a lot happier than my friend who reads newspapers every day, so we are saying ignorance is bliss?



its not that i dont care about the suffering thats going on in the world today, i do care, and many people i know nearly came head to head with the bombs two weeks ago. That i certainly care about. I can feel sad about all thats going on, i can feel down and upset by it. But what difference will being sad do to help? nothing thats what. it can rebuild houses, saves lives and bring those lost back to life again.



Whats more helpful is smiling at that stranger, who cant resist smiling back, becuase smiles are contageous, and being happy, cheery, loving etc towards the people who im tangable with. i cant change the world, but i can help those who i know.



i dont read the news


You'll find me on the dance floor

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by: arty farty
Whats more helpful is smiling at that stranger, who cant resist smiling back, becuase smiles are contageous,


Thats not at all true any more. Especially if you are carrying poi or a staff or devilsticks. Everyone thinks that you are going to mug them all the time!

I say hello to almost every person that I pass in the street on a daily basis and I'd say that less than 1 in 20 even acknowledges me. The brittish general public are amongst the most miserable and paranoid in the world in my experience.

I'm so fed up with smiling and being nice to people just for them to look back at me like I'm insane for speaking to someone I dont know or act like they think I'm about to pull a gun on them.


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: arty farty

when i think about it, im a lot happier than my friend who reads newspapers every day, so we are saying ignorance is bliss?







I wouldn't say it's a case of 'ignorance is bliss'- we all need to know what's going on in the world, and we need to know about the bad stuff.

But the UK and US media have a focus on the negative stuff that is not at all proportional to reality.

The picture presented by the media is of a world where the majority of acts are by twisted individuals bent on causing pain and exploiting others; murders, muggings, terror etc- of course that stuff does happen, but, in reality, it's in the minority compared with all the good and positive stuff.

It's those who are sucked in by the media's misportrayal of reality who are more correctly called ignorant, as they have such a skewed view of how prevalent this violence and negativity actually is.

It would be bad enough if the effect of this misreporting was simply to make people miserable and paranoid, but there's some evidence that it actually contributes to the violence as well.

Written by: arty farty


Whats more helpful is smiling at that stranger, who cant resist smiling back, becuase smiles are contageous, and being happy, cheery, loving etc towards the people who im tangable with. i cant change the world, but i can help those who i know.

i dont read the news



That's true smile

I suspect there's a lot of us who feel this way; i wonder if there's a scope for not just refraining from reading/watching the news, but for actually making it known, and presenting it as a kind of boycott ie a message to the media that we're basically boycotting their present product, until they acknowledge that there is a demand for balanced reporting and then start to supply it.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Seye




Thats not at all true any more. Especially if you are carrying poi or a staff or devilsticks. Everyone thinks that you are going to mug them all the time!



I say hello to almost every person that I pass in the street on a daily basis and I'd say that less than 1 in 20 even acknowledges me. The brittish general public are amongst the most miserable and paranoid in the world in my experience.



I'm so fed up with smiling and being nice to people just for them to look back at me like I'm insane for speaking to someone I dont know or act like they think I'm about to pull a gun on them.





Sometimes people don't want to be entering into interaction when they're out on their business.



Especially in big towns like Sheffield where there's loads of beggars, market research people, 'Big Issue' sellers and 'Hare Krishna' "monks", trying to pull you into conversations you don't want.



People get fed up with it, and just want to get from A to B without being hassled, and that's understandable.



If, as you say, 19 out of 20 people you smile at/say hello to, are leaving you feeling snubbed; then I think you need to be more selective about who you're aiming it at and develop the ability to judge who's likely to welcome it, and who isn't.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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squarexbear
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK

Total posts: 585
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave
Especially in big towns like Sheffield where there's loads of beggars, market research people, 'Big Issue' sellers and 'Hare Krishna' "monks", trying to pull you into conversations you don't want.



and the crazies and charity vampires...tbh if someone i dont know says hello to me i'll get out of there asap. especially if its a charity vampire, because as soon as they find out i have no money to give to little blind kids, they get nasty (we had one the other day who told my boyfriend he had 'serious issues'...yeah, way to get money out of people)

i smile at pretty much anyone i make eye contact with (and thats most people) but i dont expect anything back. a little smile and eye contact go a long way in making people feel like they've been seen.

anyway, the whole news thing..
the media is completely skewing our perception of other people and the society we live in...not just when it comes to terrorism, but sex crimes, thievery etc are all seen to be so much worse than they are.

the way that crime statistics are reported is important - percentages are often used instead of real figures. this means that people have no real sense of proportion, and don't realise how few people are in fact being mugged/raped/blown up.

the media is spoonfeeding people stereotypes about terrorists...everyone with tanned skin and a beard is obviously about to blow themselves up, be careful. i dont remember being told to be terrified of anyone with an irish accent when the IRA was busy blowing up london.

i still read the papers, news websites, watch the news on tv, but i've been brought up to take it all with a pinch of salt. humans may be violent by nature, but we are also inherently nosy. the news feeds our need to know about everyone else, and to a point reassure ourselves that we are better off than everyone else.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by: onewheeldave


Sometimes people don't want to be entering into interaction when they're out on their business.



Especially in big towns like Sheffield where there's loads of beggars, market research people, 'Big Issue' sellers and 'Hare Krishna' "monks", trying to pull you into conversations you don't want.



People get fed up with it, and just want to get from A to B without being hassled, and that's understandable.



If, as you say, 19 out of 20 people you smile at/say hello to, are leaving you feeling snubbed; then I think you need to be more selective about who you're aiming it at and develop the ability to judge who's likely to welcome it, and who isn't.



Its not that at all.



In fact, the main problem is that these people create their own paranoid little world. They fear anyone from outside their little bubble and as a result communities are breaking up and segregation is becomming rife. People now fear EVERYTHING and even suspect those of us who choose to smile and be nice as they think we might have some 'alterior motive'.



If people were generally a little more curteous, well mannered and a little less suspicious we'd all be a lot happier.


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Crimson_Fyre
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Crimson_Fyre

member
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Total posts: 15
Posted:^0^

Seye For world Overlord

^^; can I be court entertainer plz? And maybe have my own little state or something? ^0^

Anyways, There are many ways to take "bad" news. on the cynical, brutally honest side. We need population control anyways. The world is overpopulated. If poeple weren't so violent think of how much worse that problem would be.

On the other hand, Noone has the right to decide whether or not someone else has the right to live or not. If you don't want someone around you, avoid them. And there is ALWAYS a way to accomplish goals without violence. Unfortunately, they're much harder to pull due to the majority of humanity's unwillingness to accept the truth or that they have made a mistake, ever, in their entire life.

And that's what I have to say on the issue. ^^


Chew on that! hahahahahahahahahaha


I'm not strange... I'm just not like you.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Seye




Its not that at all.



In fact, the main problem is that these people create their own paranoid little world. They fear anyone from outside their little bubble and as a result communities are breaking up and segregation is becomming rife. People now fear EVERYTHING and even suspect those of us who choose to smile and be nice as they think we might have some 'alterior motive'.









I'm sure there are many reasons, and I'm sure that some people are paranoid.



But the fact is that some people don't respond precisely for the reasons I gave above.



And there is good reason to



Written by: Seye


suspect those of us who choose to smile and be nice as they think we might have some 'alterior motive'.









because the fact is that for those who are begging/selling stuff/religious converters often use smiling and pretending to know you, as an approach from which they can commence their blag.



If you want to get from one end of a Sheffield high street to the other, without being engaged by multiple individuals trying to engage you with stuff you're not interested in, then you have to exercise some judgement when it comes to eye contact.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:while that may be the case in a busy city centre, this is not the kind of scenario that i am talking about.

I mean when you are walking down a street where there are hardly any people - say a residential area - and you pass the only other person on the street.

There is no excuse - these people are just paranoid and ignorant.


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Brian:-)
BRONZE Member since Jun 2004

Brian:-)

stranger
Location: London

Total posts: 37
Posted:I recently complained to the BBC for their bad news slant on everything. If interest rates go up it is reported as bad news for people with mortgages. If they go down it is bad news for people with pensions or savings. Why not the other way round? They could have interactive news. "Press the red button for good news."
News is also biased by what they don't report. Last year there was a drive by shooting in my high street, outside the police station. According to the radio traffic news the road was closed due to an incident. There were no news reports on local radio or national news. There was nothing even reported in the local paper. 3 people dead and no reports. Do I live in some backwater place that no one has heard of? No, North London. What else don't we get to hear about?


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Crimson Fyre- yeah you can have, umm...
you may as well have NW USA - all of it seeing as you are already there. I bet that would make your day easier tongue

Spiderbaby - Thanks for your vote, for that you can have your home land too when I rule the world wink

Bah - the world is run by madmen, religious zealots and ignorami for their own financial and social gain. In that I include politicians, heads of major corporate and financial institutions, dictators and royalty. Their poisonous "f*ck everyone else as long as I'm ok" attitude has now infiltrated almost every level and facet of society.

On a side note you can now be shot by the police in London for wearing the wrong jacket and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And they call this civilisation!


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Fathom
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

Fathom

member
Location: Online!

Total posts: 103
Posted:"Human beings have stopped evolving morally, and our baser impulses to lie, cheat, gossip, and steal are behaviors we'll just have to learn to live with."
Dr. Michael Shermer

And Seye i'm going to have to vote against you. Nobody who hates happyhardcore can ever be World Overlord smile .


Kangaroo Island eh? I hear that place is really hopping!

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Posted:Can i defend my home land with a fleet of flying ostriches.

We cant really blame the police officer who shot the guy. If he was a suacide bomber and was not shot, the officer would have been killed and so would other people nearby or the officer would have been blamed if the guy escaped.
That man is in a better position to decide if lethal force was necessary than any of us are. Our society puts police in a position of power to make decisions like this ( should i shoot and be safe or should i take the risk that this guy might blow me to pieces or might be innocent ).
Police are under orders to fire and kill if a weapon or something that LOOKS like a weapon is drawn.
So if it looked for a second like this guy was going to detonate a bomb it was a right and a duty for the officer to fire or control the situation.

Poor police officer. Now we know the guy was innocent but put yourself in the officer's shoes at that time. To him it looked like he was damned if he did and damned if he didnt.

It may not look like it from this post but im not happy about that unfortunate man being shot but i cant blame the officer either.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Fathom - hardcore just remings me of 15 year olds on pills wearing reflective yellow workman jackets. That and it sounds like hard house on speed.

I dont believe that lying, cheating and stealing and basic human instincts. I think they are learned by example from the people that I mentioned above.

Spiderbaby - I also feel really sorry for the police officer who shot the guy in Stockwell. The worrying thing AFAIC is that supposed 'intelligence' lead the police to believe that this guy was a threat. It just seems to be becomming more and more apparent that when the police (or militry) say "We have intelligence..." that they actually mean "We suspect that..." but they act on this as though it were cast iron fact.

Again, a product of the paranoid times that we live in. I think that whoever provided the supposed intelligence needs to be severely reprimanded. The officer who fired the shot was probably carring out orders based on what he believed to be correct information.


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Posted:Yeah, if there were no bombings inthe last few weeks that guy would have almost certainly just been arrested.

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squarexbear
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK

Total posts: 585
Posted:if there had been no bombings in the past few weeks, he wouldnt have been followed in the first place.

intelligence said that some people in connection with the london bombings lived in the block of flats this guy was leaving.
so they looked at him saw a young, foreign looking male heading in direction of tube. OBVIOUSLY he was a terrorist..

i do feel sorry for the police officer, but i feel sorrier for pretty much everyone else who has to live in fear constantly because the colour of their skin and the size of their clothes could result in them being shot dead.


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by: squarexedge

intelligence said that some people in connection with the london bombings lived in the block of flats this guy was leaving.
so they looked at him saw a young, foreign looking male heading in direction of tube. OBVIOUSLY he was a terrorist..

i do feel sorry for the police officer, but i feel sorrier for pretty much everyone else who has to live in fear constantly because the colour of their skin and the size of their clothes could result in them being shot dead.


Thats exactly it.

Reminds me of Team America...
Spotswood: "Bad Intelligence, very bad intelligence."
Intelligence: "Sorry"

I dont think that it will be limited to people look 'foriegn' (whatever that might mean in probably the most multicultural country in the world). Anyone who appears to be acting 'odd', living in the wrong place, wearing the wrong clothes, has the wrong hairstyle AND ESPECIALLY people who carry what could be considered weapons (Poi, Staff - especially when you have fuel) is a ligitimate target.

I'm off to look for jobs abroad I think before this gets any more ridiculous.


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squarexbear
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK

Total posts: 585
Posted:do you think that a white guy walking out of the same building in a similar jacket would have been followed? there is an inbred racism in this entire situation - people are getting too easily caught up in the stereotype of 'foreign' terrorists.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Written by: Seye

I dont believe that lying, cheating and stealing and basic human instincts. I think they are learned by example from the people that I mentioned above.





I completely disagree with you. Our politicians do not come into our homes and teach us to lie.
When I was a little kid....
- and I thought I was going to get into trouble...my first reaction was to lie. I was taught it was wrong.
- and I wanted something that wasn't mine, I took it. I was taught that was wrong.
- and I wanted to win a game, I figured out a way to do so. I was taught that was wrong.

And I have gone through the same things with the kids I nannied and my own son. The fact that toddlers are like this and need to be taught not to, and that they have no concept of religion and politics, is, to me, proof that it is basic human instinct. For any basic behaviours, watch a child. And I will admit, some are born more predisposed than others..but every child I have ever been around has had to be taught not to lie, cheat, steal, touch a hot thing, etc.

If human instinct automatically swayed towards what is correct, we would not need to learn right from wrong, we would already know it and it would make my job as a parent much easier.

As for the being stopped for wearing the wrong clothes in the wrong place. In the US we went through that after the Columbine shootings. My friends and I were taking our daily evening walk to Dunkin Donuts, walking down the street, on a cold November evening, wearing our trench coats and we were followed there by a cop. We had done the same thing on many nights, and hadn't been noticed, but the Columbine incident suddenly had us pegged as shooters as well because we were wearing trenches.
It's profiling, and profiling is wrong (thank you Ron White).

And I agree, not everything does make it into the news. We've had several deaths because of the heat extreme here where I live. I know because my downstairs neightbor is a Sheriff. However, only one made the news, because he was only 22.

I also know in the US the government has a bit of control over what the media is allowed to report. And that sucks. For example, any American who knows anything about Bush will tell you this "war" (ie: military action) has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with the fact that his family, and many of his friends, are in the oil industry. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out, but the influence his actions have had for the benefit of his cronies is not reported on (because that would be anti-american and demoralizing to a nation which has been thrust into a financial depression proportionately similar to the 1930's Great Depression since Bush took office). What was reported with Bush's recent visit to our area was that protestors were moved to a location by police where Bush wouldn't see that this area did not support him (making the protestors look like bad guys). What actually happened was the turn out of protestors was much higher than anticipated and they were literally giving the police a run for their money (one guy outran a cop while carrying a sign that said "No more budget trims, Trim Bush!" It was a hysterical photo that my friend took. Never made the paper.

Our local paper has "Happy Ads". People can write in and thank someone for doing something nice for them. Alot of time they are people who were helped by an anonymous stranger. It's nice. It's also buried in the back of some obscure section that people rarely look into.

I am just as curious as the next person. However, my curiousity doesn't end with the horrible stuff or overly dramatic reporting.

In this area, for example, our local amusement park...which last year did very poorly, has attendence that is up 15%. There has been record attendence as some of the other area recreation events. What does that mean? That despite everything, people are moving on with their lives and enjoying thier lives, not allowing this political crap and the reports that the war will soon be on "home soil" to keep them in fear. And I think that is pretty damn positive.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Written by: Pele

I completely disagree with you. Our politicians do not come into our homes and teach us to lie.
When I was a little kid....
- and I thought I was going to get into trouble...my first reaction was to lie. I was taught it was wrong.
- and I wanted something that wasn't mine, I took it. I was taught that was wrong.
- and I wanted to win a game, I figured out a way to do so. I was taught that was wrong.

And I have gone through the same things with the kids I nannied and my own son. The fact that toddlers are like this and need to be taught not to, and that they have no concept of religion and politics, is, to me, proof that it is basic human instinct. For any basic behaviours, watch a child. And I will admit, some are born more predisposed than others..but every child I have ever been around has had to be taught not to lie, cheat, steal, touch a hot thing, etc.

If human instinct automatically swayed towards what is correct, we would not need to learn right from wrong, we would already know it and it would make my job as a parent much easier.



Basic human instinct cannot be defined as 'what the undeveloped mind wishes'.

In fact basic human instinct is no more than the will to survive. We are extremely lucky in the UK, US, Aus, etc. that this instinct is suppressed by the fact that our living standards are (no matter whether you are wealthy or poor) above a line that makes this instinct redundant.

Children lie because they see adults lying (no matter how small or 'white' these lies seem to us) and see it as a way of avoiding the consequences of actions. This is magnified through youth by the constant barrage of untruth's that children are fed by the media, educational establishments (some of the most ridiculous lies I have ever heard were given to me in school) and the adults that the children see around them. While we may see a difference between 'being economical with the truth' and 'lying' to a child these concepts are no different at all.

As for the other things...
While you may have been told that stealing, hurting others, etc. are wrong the reasoning behind that was up to you to discover. I have been told on numerous occasions (especially as a child but still today) that actions I take are 'wrong'. This had absolutely no effect on me until I understood why. You dotn steal because you hope that others will treat you with the same respect and that makes YOUR life easier, not others. You learn not to lie because you know that eventually you will be found out making YOUR life more difficult. You dont cheat because you hope that others will not try to cheat YOU.

To say that these actions are 'human instinct' is a cop out. It is the laziest excuse for a persons actions that I can possibly think of. Its like the argument that all actions are predefined (which to a degree scientifically, they are) which makes you not responsible for your actions.

Basically what I am trying to say is that 'human instinct' is a construction of those who are too lazy to change their behaviour and react 'morally' (interpret that as you will) to a given situation. ALMOST ALL human behaviour can be explained by 'learned behaviour'. Usually learned by example of those who you believe you should look up to.
Therefore the people who lie to us on a daily basis (hey there mr Tony and mr George) are fuelling this by teaching the world that you can have anything that you want as long as you can keep up a lie for long enough.

This is what is wrong with the world. As intelligent beings (which all humans, not one excluded, are) we have a duty to behave in a way that not only suits OUR needs but also takes others into account. That includes leading by example, especially if you hold a position of power.

This of course assumes that the vast majority of people are no less intelligent than sheep. Unfortunately something that I am coming to believe more and more every day. frown


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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:Oh and sorry, that wasnt meant to sound aggressive.

I studied philosophy and culture at Uni and still take an active interest in such topics.

One of my biggest pet hates from all my studies is the 'its human instinct' defence. It can always be beaten by the question- "do you consider humans to have free will?". If the answer is yes then 'instinct' of this kind is simply a construction of people who study behaviour and attach tags to it.

I just wish that EVERYONE would just chill out, stop lying, cheating and stealing. For this to happen those in the public eye (and the media) MUST lead by example. smile


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squarexbear
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK

Total posts: 585
Posted:While we're on the subject of the media and its nastiness, I recommend that all of you read 'The First Casualty: The War Correspondent as Hero, Propagandist, and Myth-maker from the Crimea to the Gulf War II ' by Phillip Knightley.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:My son does not see me lie. Yet he tried it.
I do not steal. He tried it.

I know people who raised their children without a television or radio and they still tried to lie. You are completely underestimating children, and their ability to "problem solve" and thier own "survival" instincts. For them many things which as adults we see as extraneous they feel very strongly as a need.

And lieing, cheating, stealing *are* absolutely part of the survival *instinct* we are born with. To survive means to do so by any means necessary. The most honest of men have been known to do what we socially concider unacceptable in order to survive, including stealing, lieing and even cannabalism.
We are driven by instinct. We have the choice whether or not to give into it, therefore they do not contradict one another (I learned that in philosophy 1).

Many of us here have studied psychology, philosophy, sociology (myself included).

You are also completely wrong in assuming that children are left to figure why something is wrong, and that we merely are told stealing, etc is wrong. Nope. I was explained very thoroughly why it was wrong, and so has every child I have ever had to deal with this with.

What I do not like about your reasoning is that you are giving the media way more power than they really do have. Even political figures do not speak for their people, and do not influence them.
If your theory were true, because media and politics have been this way for as long as I can think of...there would not be an honest soul on this planet, and if media did in fact have the sway that you claim (bringing this *back* to the topic at hand, which is about the media and negative hype) every person who ever read the paper would be a manic depressive.

No, I have seen way too many children who do things on their own without influence to blame media, politics or religion. I also prefer to place the power of such influences in the hands of the parents primarily, supported by friends and teachers. If a child is exposed to enough media and politics at the age of 2 that is causes them to lie and steal, then there is something profoundly wrong in their household.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Seye
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK

Total posts: 1261
Posted:You are looking at these these things as direct causes though.
I am taking them to be a kind of social erosion.
No one event or 'cause' can be said to have been the absolute 'cause' of a later symptom. That would be a ridiculous statement to make.

And I think you ae right about parents being responsible, but only up to a very young age. After that peers, teachers and other social interactions become much more important.

Also - a child at the age of two cannot be said to be making intelligent decisions at all. They are simply reacting to the world around them. They are not stealing, they are picking something up. They have no concept of posession at all at that age. Logic and reason are born from experience. Something which no young child can be said to have.

However, everyone has the ability to choose how they act once they reach maturity. Most people base this decision on what they see as social norm's. This is where the problem (in my eyes) stems from.
Intelligent people (which IMO account for a tiny percentage of the western population) base their oppinions and their actions on logically deduced beliefs.

I just firmly believe that without those in the public eye leading by good example the situation does not stand to get any better ever.

I think that we may have to agree to disagree on this.


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