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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:The other day while playing with buzzsaws I found that you can turn a buzzsaw 360 without transitioning to the opposite direction. If youve ever seen one of those crazy AA Yo-Yo videos, you probably know what Im on about. Start with a buzzsaw and begin turning with it, but instead of flipping it to reverse like usual, follow it with your body, almost as if you were doing a sommersalt along with it (although you arent actually doing a summersault). Youll have to basically turn your upper body upside down and then back again.



Although I havent tried it yet, it seems this also has applications in hyperloops. The yo-yo'ers use this to turn their tangled buzzsaw type moves without worrying about extra twists and such.



Anyway, this isnt anything amazing, but was something I figured someone may have a use for.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Sounds like you will need to be an extra supple Poi ninja for that to me.......

Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Poi somersaults!!

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:you can do this while in barrel roll style (inverted) buzzsaws to smile - which is where hyperloops comes in smile

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:Oli - I think just partialy



Buzzsaw transition - Well, there is a big story about that. When you want tot turn with Buzzsaw Weave, there are allways, no matter if on the top or bottom, part where bot Poi are outside not inside.



This is the same with BTN Isolation, where you can see, when you turn that there is neither not all the time buzzaw nor Isolation.



To bypass that you can slow the motion as much as possible to get it

or use inversion, but there you just fix one hand inside not both.



The fact is thatt there is no wall plane buzzsaw, only inverted plane or inside plane and those "classic".

EDITED_BY: Richee (1121260249)


POI THEO(R)IST

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:o.O

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Heh... While I dont really understand most of what youre saying Richee, I can say there are definately wall plane buzzsaws.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:errm no,

I agree with richee, there are no wall plane buzzsaws, at least not follow time ones, butterfly yes maybe. but the inital idea is realy inresting.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:What do you call a buzzsaw fountain?

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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16.15.8
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

16.15.8

I cant think therefore Im not
Location: In my backpack

Total posts: 291
Posted:I LOOOOOVE BUZZSAWS biggrin

"I dont like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:ICoN: What do you call a buzzsaw fountain?,



Better what do you call Buzzsaw?



When we look at planes "Wall plane":



Outside plane(long arm,thanx Rev)

Wall plane

Inverted plane(inversion)

Inside plane(inside, thanx Rev)

Buzzsaw plane



What about buzzsaw, if buzzsaw is space between arms and body, buzzsaw is inverted and inside plane. (by Coleman)

If buzzsaw is plane and I aim for that. Than because when we stay wheel plane buzzsaw is in the middle,I call it central plane, then when we stay "Wall plane the buzzsaw plane pass through our body".



Resolution:

There is Buzzsaw in Wall plane,

There is Buzzsaw plane Wall plane,but

Poi can pass throught (straight arm) and cant stop.



Any suggestions?



light,



:R

EDITED_BY: Richee (1121534673)


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Buzzsaw is its own plane but you can do them in wall plane too... Just like you can do a weave (outside plane) in wall plane. Think of all the buzzsaws, not just the basic one... BTB wall plane buzzsaw (like a waist wrap buzzsaw), between the legs buzzsaw, buzzsaw flowers, etc... Thats all done in buzzsaw wall plane.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:To continue the discussion. As I see from you.

Buzzsaw is own plane.

But when I look at moves you continue:

BTB Wall plane Buzzsaw - Its Wheel plane.

Waistwap Buzzsaw -How you meen?

BTL Buzzsaw - Its Wind mill not buzzsaw. Here you can compare with Water Mill.



Buzzsaw flowers - Here is to discussed the transition between left and right side, that there is the middle part for one reel not in Buzzsaw. In the upper part its the same problem.



Thats all not done in buzzsaw wallplane.

EDITED_BY: Richee (1121608029)


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:It is, Richee. When I say "BTL buzzsaw" Im not talking about a windmill thing here... Im talking about actually doing a buzzsaw BTL ie left hand in front, right hand in back, between the legs doing buzzsaw in wall plane. Btb waist wrap buzzsaw = doing a buzzsaw under your arms with one wrapped BTB in wall plane (sorta like the one Bluecat does in Spinach sessions except turned to wall plane instead of just BTB). Im tellin you. There are plenty of buzzsaw moves that utilize wall plane.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:i have tried for about 3 and a half years to learn the freakin buzzsaw.
can someone either come down hear and teach me or should i continue doin it with staves?

pps i second you, richee, the description sounds like a buzzsaw fountain.

here is the lovely HoPper ubblovecarmenbelleubblove performing a buzzsaw fountain. i'm too lazy to make a vid...
Non-Https Image Link


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Bender, the move Im describing basically IS a buzzsaw fountain... However, its done without changing the direction of spin in relation to your body... Youre not going forward > reverse > forward... Youre doing one direction the whole time but following it with your body in a circle so that there is no direction change.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: Richee




Outside plane(long arm,thanx Rev)

Wall plane

Inverted plane(inversion)

Inside plane(inside, thanx Rev)

Buzzsaw plane



:R







ok I'm not sure why I'm being thanked here.. hopefully I cna clear up something I might have mistated earlier.. I think there is a way to extremely simplify this whole thing is like this..



outside- poi face away from you

inverted- poi face each other.. (I'll clarify this in a minute)

inside- poi face you..



inside and outside are essentially the same thing but face different.. a good way to see that is the corkscrew.. where top and bottom represent inside and outside..



inverted (if we go loosely like arashi and cole does ?!?) is the buzzsaw space)- therefore the buzzsaws are inverted reels.. and inversions are (pardon the redundancy) inverted weaves (whihc is where the inverted deifnition above needs a little clarifying.. these still face each other but have to overlap each other a little to twist around each other)..



thus buzzsaws being reels, are like any other reel... they can be wheel plane.. wallplane.. whatever..



this last part is me just rambling:

buzzsaw isnt really a plane, just like outside and inside arent /really/ planes.... its a planar facing.. its a polite way of saying facing each other, next to each other.. by thinking of them as /planes/, it kinda gives this static connotation doesnt it.. whihc would lead to conflict with other 'planes' like wheel, wall, whatever.. the difference being that wheel and wall are static planes.. whereas outside, inside, and buzzsaw are not.. I can face outside, inside, or buzzsaw from anywhere.. but those points arent specifically those planes.. they only happen to be at that time.. I cant have an inside plane for example, without having my arms in a position to define it that way..

I guess what I'm trying to say is that outside, inside, and inverted refer to how the hands are relative to each other and the body.. and wallplane, wheel plane etc.. are how the poi spin.. the latter being what I would consider a 'plane.' whihc is why you can spin inside wallplane, or inside wheel plane, etc..





now that ends the offtopic rambling..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:"IcON

Btb waist wrap buzzsaw = doing a buzzsaw under your arms with one wrapped BTB in wall plane (sorta like the one Bluecat does in Spinach sessions except turned to wall plane instead of just BTB)"






Wrapped,where, you meen with short Poi right.



*"Yes, there is no directinal change in buzzsaw, but planar."*

Answer is between left and right,

forward and backward Weave buzzsaw,

Wall plane,

When you stay wheel plane, your Buzzsaw is in the middle in one plane. When yo ustay wall plane, you can only choose outside or inside.





Revi,



"Its a polite way of saying facing each other, next to each other.. by thinking of them as /planes/, it kinda gives this static connotation doesnt it.."




Its dynamic connotation as you ack after.

That are static and dynamic planes point of view.



Myself I take it absolutely static. This is set of planes

referre space

and I move whole the set by turnig.

Thins point of view let me like you to go the same way,

its dynamized static.



:R

EDITED_BY: Richee (1121708855)


POI THEO(R)IST

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I know (and enjoy) the move you are doing Icon - its not a buzzsaw fountain the way that Bluecat et al do em smile

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Right. Finally, someone who understands smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: Richee

Its dynamic connotation as you ack after.
That are static and dynamic planes point of view.

Myself I take it absolutely static. This is set of planes
referre space
and I move whole the set by turnig.
Thins point of view let me like you to go the same way,
its dynamized static.

:R



but what I'm saying is outside, insides, and buzzsaw are different from ceiling wall, and wheel.. outside, inside, inverted, (buzzsaw) talk about how the poi are facing.. you can cal it a plane.. but its not really.. I can spin an outside circle and never be in a single plane.. but I can't spin wheel, or wallplane without being in a plane.. because wheel, wall, ceiling, etc refer to the space the poi is in (the plane) not the way the hand faces.. whihc is why you have outside wallplane, inverted wallplane, wallplane buzzsaw, inside wallplane.,.. you do not however have outside buzzsaws, inside buzzsaws, or inverted buzzsaws.. nor do you have wheel plane wallplanes, or ceiling plane wheelplanes.... you follow what I'm getting at?


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:clearly i am unable to decipher these lovely text descriptions - is there a vid out there of pyrolific's or bluecat's variation of this buzzsaw combo?
i still cannot understand how it differs from a buzzsaw-fountain combo.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...rev=#Post399884
br>
Clip 1/5 in that video is what Im talking about except in that example, its done in a tangle.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:And speaking of that video, how come most of the tangles in that vid seem impossible with poi? Ive been trying a few of them with absolutely no luck. Oh, except for the one where he tangles, then untangles with crossed arms, then goes back into a tangle (3/3)

Ugh, I can hardly even understand whats going on in most of them. Perhaps some of the pro tanglers could shed some light - Rev/Oli?


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I think it's because the yo-yoers have a spinning weight at the end, adding momentum to the spin. If your poi had spinning ends I'm sure you'd have similar results, then again you'd also have yo-yo's! umm

I've had the same luck as you, I can only really manage the crossed arms into unscrossed arms tangle into crossed arms untangle but have had a little luck with some of the step overs and a few others but tend to lose momentum half way through. Unless I use really long poi (yey for huge lanky arms) and gyrate it like an oli-loop but that's ber tricky of the highest order.

Anyway, I'm offtopic so....buzsaws must exist in wall plane, or perhaps inverted wall plane, if they never leave the space between your arms. Not to hard so long as they're butterfly or yes, same direction but twisting your body to counter act the the twisting up of the poi.

Would love to see it done, and nailed sweetly, but super dooper tricky to do while keeping it all betwixt the arms.

Put it on vid Mr Icon! smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:actually I had a talk with shawn about it on |s|... the difference with those yo yo tangles is that they give it enough momentum to make the top arc.. and then it swoops down on its own.. thus causing the person doing it to have to 'pull' the poi around each time.. you pull one while the other floats and vice-versa..



it plays off of two factors.. the uber small and uber slick string.. and the considerably weighty poi head... (I know you are thinking.. yo-yo's arnt heavy.. but the yoyo's weight is distributed better than say glowsticks.. ) you can do the same things with astrojacks.. and they can be done with poi but its really hard.. because we don't spin such nice slick rope.. we usually have bumpy chain or coarse strings..



if you want to practice that pull around typ tanlge that you see in all the yo-yo vids, I would suggest starting with some light poi and try this pattern:

spin the left poi as a reverse buzzsaw..

spin the right poi in a reverse patternthat goes around the left forearm..



because youhave to keep the wrist/arm (right) out of the way of the left poi's buzzsaw, and because of the change in timing.. you get the same stutter effect here you pull the poi during the bottom of its swing and let it float over during its second half.. while simultaneously altering your left hands speed so that it stays split time (or pretty close) to the other one.. from there you just pull your hands apart a little and you have a tangle at the strings.. that you should be able to manipulate that tangle like you do in that part above.. slowly work further down the string..



I don't really care for it much at all, too much work for not enough result, imo.. and they dont spin clean, they just have the ability to spin longer.. and it doesnt work near as nice in other planes..



one final bit- they also do this other move that starts from a tanlge but they grab the sdtrings near the tangle and spin them.. I havent gotten that one, but I think it would be a cool transfer pattern..





ps. shawn has a vid of how to do the tangle I talk about above in a how to clip somewhere.. where he shows ho to pull them around with yoyos..





edit:

as far as the tricks themselves go.. keep in mind that when you have the control that they do (over their yoyos) then a lot of complex tricks become easier.. because that type of control has to come from a basic nexus, a lot of it is mostly 'hand waving' if you know what I mean.. its like taking an airwrap and flipping your hands to the opposite sides and back.. you arent doing anything.. but it looks like it.. and these guys have an advantage, since their poi only spin via momentum when they let them, they have plenty of control available to them to swing the poi in other directions in the middle of something.. I'm alwas in awe at some of the stuff they do.. just because I know that if my strings were that slick my nexus would be sliding all over and not stay near as controlled as they have it.. but then again. I'm not used to spinning yoyos either..

EDITED_BY: Rev (1121962983)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Ya man, check the video again and you will se in 1/5 part,
Buzzsaw fountain.
When you check it carefully you will find that the guy did

360 turn,
and Buzzsaw stayed in one plane.

So there is no Buzzsaw plane movement. Thats why he is like a bow and stay on one hand.

:R


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Your posts always confuse me Richee. I really dont understand what youre telling me. I know there is no plane movement. I never said there was. I was just posting the link to the video to show what I meant by my first post.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I think he's probably agreeing with you Icon wink

Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:ICoN > It was more answer to Rev ups,

We talk togerther about Buzzsaw plane, anyway I have question:
For me Buzzsaw is name for plane, that plane in the middle.

But after I saw Spinnach vids I saw something I cant describe.
I know there is Wheel plane BTB Buzzsaw, just when you spin it BTB and between the hands,
but I saw on one vid Bluecat doing "Wall plane Buzzsaw" with one hand going from BTB and one on its side. Something like "Buzzsaw waist warp". You face fall plane spinnig buzzsaw in the front of you with hands like in waist wrap. Where the buzzsaw is between the hands.

My question is what plane this buzzsaw is using?

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Well, the one he does is a BTB inside buzzsaw. Not sure if thats the agreed upon name but it works for me. Its similar to the wall plane one I was talking about except that is done like a waist wrap (with one arm in front and one wrapped BTB).

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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