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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Infinite (Turning?) Lock-out Sequences

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Hi all smile

I have been looking through the HoP forum for several days but have been unable to find a meaningful explanation for extended lock-out sequences. I first saw them in some of the vids in the Videos section but have been unable to pull one off after trying for a few days......

Now that I am fed up of dinging myself in the head I am finally giving up and asking for assistance! The move I mean is not (from what I understand it to be) a Flower but is a series of lock-outs that goes through 3 locks then some sort of turn and then another 3 on the other side etc etc.... The lock-outs start as you unwrap the Poi during a weave turn and continue via a turn/twist into more lock-outs instead of going back into the weave after 3 sets. I have seen this done several times in a cycle so it must be something that can be done endlessly right?

Any help would be greatly appreciated and if this has been already dealt with I apologise but I was unable to find it through the search function.

Cheers guys in advance,

Budgie weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:note sure which move you mean, anti-spin maybe?

Which vid have you seen it in? Who was in the vid? If you can point us to it it might help us figure out your description smile


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Cute Little Burning Ball
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Cute Little Burning Ball

member
Location: Here and There... mostly there...

Total posts: 101
Posted:hmmm... not sure what u mean by lock-out (is out of my meagre vocabulary) but what u describe seems to me to be a flower variation where u extend ur arms horizontally after... a weave for instance, then turn 90 degrees,and with ur right arm at 12 oclock, and left one at 6 oclock, let the poi on both hands swing one beat by their own torque, turn around 90 degrees, arms should be 3 and 9 oclock extended, let the poi swing another beat, turn 90 degrees, right arm at 12 oclock, and left one at 6 oclock, let the poi on both hands swing one beat by their own torque, and soooooo on, until u arms fall of.

hope this is what u were looking for, i hope havent missundestood u.


Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. - Calvin 'Calvin & Hobbes'

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:is it the move that luke does at around 0:53 in this video?

tis a wicked video even if that's not what you're looking for; luke has some lovely tech flow going on smile

the lockouts are fairly easy to learn - study the turn...


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Cute Little Burning Ball
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Cute Little Burning Ball

member
Location: Here and There... mostly there...

Total posts: 101
Posted:Nice to see that i did understood what headswin meant ubbrollsmile
heres a link to another vid from ucfo: www.theworldofsmall.com/MissingInActon-Part1-TheSequel9mb.wmv at min 4:51 i reckon wink
its quite an easy move to learn and looks lovely ubblove


Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. - Calvin 'Calvin & Hobbes'

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Hi guys wave

thankx for the quick response!

@ Coleman, I have seen the vid from YT but couldn't load it this morning for some reason to check - was very probably the vid I saw it in tbh.

@ Cute, Thats the exact move I was on about at 4:51 in the vid! biggrin I keep coming unstuck at the point of turning and they just seem to whack me in the head continually.

If anyone can give me a simply run through of that on paper I think I can get it but I am just struggling to get it from watching vids of it in action frown

thankx again guys,

Budgie devil


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Cute Little Burning Ball
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Cute Little Burning Ball

member
Location: Here and There... mostly there...

Total posts: 101
Posted:I love that Vid from UCFO has some nice moves on it ive been trying to learn for a while, all i can say is study that vid, it helped me.

Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless. - Calvin 'Calvin & Hobbes'

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Lockout, that's a Michael Kahnism I believe. Not sure what people call it on here but my best advice for learning it is simply make sure your hands are far enough apart, spinning flat planes (ie not spinning in wonky orbits) and try turning slightly later or earlier if you're hitting your body/head every time. If you have the Kahn book then it's really good to learn from, once you have basic lock-outs in the weave moving around on either side and on the giant windmill you just have to play a bit.

I take it you know how to do weave turns into and out of the reverse weave, without those you won't be able to do lockout turns because it's basically a lockout in the middle of a weave turn.

Good luck! smile


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i think lockouts is pretty universal.

if it came from anywhere, i'd say its ausland.

i used to call that stuff 'separations' until mr nick came up with the whole compound circle/flower thing.

'flower' just sounds prettier to me smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Ah, so is that what a flower is to HoPpers? I always thought az flower was a non-turning weave turn thingy, where you go low on the first turn and high on the turn back...

You learn something new every day smile


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Ahh indeed the phrase lock-out is a Michael Kahnism. I basically learnt what I know from finishing the book from cover to cover. It a good easy to understand book for beginners though I found that I was very static after following it through and didn't seem to be able to flow very well. Something I am trying to work on!

Up till now I thought that the lock out things and flowers were seperate things? My impression of flowers was of an extended arm move with the poi spinning small circles at each of the 90 degree points with arms on each side of the body where as the lock-out sequences were done similarly but with arms on the same side of the body.

My apologies if this is not the case and I have been ignoring the flowers threads looking for the answer to my question!

As an add on to this thread can anyone give me any tips on how to get more flow into my Poi? I know it comes from practice but are there any useful sequences I can learn that will enhance my flow and help develop my own style?

Cheers again,

Budgie devil


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:There are useful sequences, but they're going to differ highly depending on how you spin. Practise really is the only answer to developing flow. Try moving between every move you know, turning loads and moving high, low, btb, bth etc.. you can know 3 moves and still have the best flow in the world (in my somewhat contraversial opinion.. wink ), so just keep working on it.

Spending 5 hours just spinning as often as possible is the best way to develop flow, imo biggrin Just enjoy learning it. Every practise you're getting better and smoother.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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.:star:.
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

.:star:.

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1785
Posted:practice transitions....write down a list of moves that you can do then randomly choose some from the list and try to link them together in different ways (I read this, written a lot better, in another thread, just not sure where it is!)



I found watching lots of videos on hop can give you lots of ideas about linking moves together. A few good videos with lots of lovely spinny flow areSending Signals to Spaceships & Strange Things Happen

Fluffy's flowing spinning ubblove



Written by: nearly_all_gone


Ah, so is that what a flower is to HoPpers? I always thought az flower was a non-turning weave turn thingy, where you go low on the first turn and high on the turn back...





i think thats a fountain smile

EDITED_BY: .:star:. (1120862876)


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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 1626
Posted:AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaah. That makes sense. Both "f"s, you see. I am somewhat simple. smile

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Damn that is a GREAT video!! One of the best I've seem so far......and I've watched a few now too! smile

I am really going to have to get my ass in gear and find the nearest Poi meet to me. The only time I have really seen good Poi live is at the various Glasto's I have been too.

On another note, do you guys think it helps to play with multiple toys? I.E. I have a staff too and playing with that a little taught me to do btb stuff with my Poi although I find that doing staff has no effect on my Poi skill at all. Do you guys ever learn using different props?


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Flowers and lockouts are the same thing. However, you can do them different ways. The ones you initially called lockouts (the ones done on the same side of the body) are flower weaves because you can do them on one side for 3 beats then switch to the other side and do 3 more (and just to be safe, Ill tell you that you can do more than 3 per side but they're harder and require lots of flexibility so you can do separated beats with crossed arms. The normal flower is really the same thing except youre doing them on seperate planes so they never get your arms crossed up.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:So basically....reading between the lines....you think I would be wise to learn the type that are in different planes first till I can do em asleep THEN learn the crossing arms typey hit-me-in-the-head ones? biggrin

Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Not necessarily. I know I personally learned the weave type first. I think the open flowers are actually a bit harder at first because youre constantly in a transition.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Problem is I think I know the motions for the open type in my head but I still have no idea how the turn thingie goes at the end of the first 3 beat of the flower! ubbloco

I have watched in frame by frame slowness several of the vids linked but I think I must be having a blonde day here (apologies to any blondes out there......which I am incidently wink ). Any further hints appreciated.......


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Ok so say youre doing it from a forward 3 beat weave. We'll start off on your left side. First beat is right hand at 12 left at 6, next is right at 3 left at 9, third is right at 6 left at 12 but at this point, the left hand crosses to the right side. They dont both cross over at the same time... Remember its a weave.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Oh, and of course, since you dont wanna repeat any beats, once your left hand does its crossed beat, the right will then cross to that side also and the first beat with both on the same side will be at 3 and 9.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:So just to leave nothing to chance after the cross over the first set will be left and 3 and right hand 9 with the right hand coming around the front of the body to the 9 position?

Sorry if this takes word for word spelling out but its late at night here and my brain is ubbloco

biggrin Anyways thanks for the help - I will try this tomorrow and let ya know how it goes! Off to bed now.....

Laters bye


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Ok, Im sorry for confusing you. The 12/6 beats are always crossed. The 3/9 beats are always on the same side. The only reason my example above doesnt show this is because we were starting from a weave which would lead you to start with the 12/6 beats on the same side. Also, when doing this continually there are only 4 beats (since youre always turning it every 2 beats). The whole 3 beat system we were using before only applies to doing it on one side since thats as far as you can go before getting your arms tangled..

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Ahhh a nice new fresh sunny day and *click* the light in my brain comes on too! ubbloco

That was where I was going wrong all along! I have been trying to put 3 sets on each side before trying to cross to the other side.....

Thanks very much ICoN you are a star! In fact have a groovy gold star from me! *hands ICoN the shiniest gold star in the world*

Off to practice....

*runs off with Poi in hand!*


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:What you describe is here:

Those arre flowers but I rather use common name for all:

Big & little circles that include:

Long arms
Straight jacket
Flowers & Fountains
Anti- Spinning

What u describe seems to be one of the simplest flower:
This one is with three circles and you can start from one:

http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=2
br>
light,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Well I went out this evening to practice the weave flowers and I think I managed to get the move as described by ICoN however when I filmed myself with me camera phone it looked nothing like I expected it to!

In fact, although it did look good it didn't actually look like any move I have seen in any of the vids I have watched. ubbloco

Does anyone have any vids that show a weave flower or know of any that do so I can compare the two?

Laters,

Budgie devil


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:I have a video called Dynamik Dysfunktion in the "ICoN's Video Archive" thread of the videos forum. At 5:15 I do a flower weave for a little bit. This might not help you too much though because 1. That section of the video is really dark and you cant really see much hand movement and 2. The way I did it in that video is slightly different than what Ive been describing to you (I was much sloppier back then). However, if youre just trying to get an idea of what the pattern looks like, you can totally check it out. On top of that there are a few (sloppy) examples of the open flowers we mentioned as well as some other decent moves you may like smile

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Ahhh yes indeed that is what my clip looked like too, though even sloppier! biggrin I only needed a brief look at the pattern as I wasn't sure about dragging the following arm around the body (even though it is a weave pattern) and the smallness of the large circle it goes through due to one arm being across your body.

I kinda knew it must be sorta ok as my g/f actually stopped spinning and stared at me + the row of little girls from the house behind mine all gasped and actually shut up for once! lolsign

I actually already downloaded most of the vids in your thread and have been scouring them for technique tips and transition ideas. The Dynamik vid is excellent for this as you have some daytime spinning in which you can clearly see the motion of your hands and the nightime spinning which demonstrates how this looks to onlookers in terms of patterns etc. clap Excellent spinning my man biggrin

Right i'm off to practice some more and see if I can't get the butterfly flower I've seen wink

Laters and thanks again ICoN - you are a star! wow


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:So........any chance of a description for any more of the flowers (and how you transition into them)? biggrin

Just to keep ya working like.... wink


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Straight Jacket > Start with weave, let one your hand straight and with
the other continue closer and closer to your shoulder.

Antispinnig> Start with one Poi going forward in Wheel plane. Try to pass with the hand backward circle in this positions:
a)arm horizontail in the front
b)arm on the top verticaly
c)arm horizontail in the back
a)arm vertical in the bottom (there where you start)

Try with the other hand. Try it with both and straight your arm in one line, so one hand start at the top one at the bottom.

Fountain > Start Weave forward wall plane. Do transition to the other side. Come across the front plane back to the Forward weave.

Flower > Start Wind mill. Straight your arm doing two separate circles. Try to move with em. Try to start with Mexican weave

Lockout >Start Giant Weave, lock out one, two, three or four circles.

light,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:::Wonders if Richee actually reads threads before posting::



Anyway...



So now that you have the flower weave you can work on the open flower. Its exactly the same except instead of doing the crossed beats, have them on their own side.



Example:

left 9, right 3 on the right side > left 6, right 12 on their own sides > left 3, right 9 on the left side > left 12, right 6 on their own sides.



Once you get that, you can learn to turn them 360. Just turn 90deg each beat so when youre doing the 3/9 beats youre facing the side they're on with your arms extended outwards and when youre doing the 6/12 beats your arms are at your sides pointing up and down.



You could also give butterfly flowers a try. They work the same way except your poi and arms are moving in opposite directions.



Beyond that, flowers start to get rather complex. Lemme know when youre really fluid with all the above mentioned flowers cuz the others wont make much sense until then.


Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Page: 12

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