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Page: 123
Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Okay...so.
Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes both have movies coming out and are supposed to be promoting them. Instead they are promoting their relationship and their religion...Scientology.

Now, I had read about it about 10 years ago when the huge push on the books "Dianetics" happened and it seemed, well, suspicious.
I went to the website for Scientology and instead of really talking about its principles all it says is "Buy the books!"
I found this quite thwarting, and tinked off my suspicions even further.

So then I looked it up here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
br>
And holy crap!
Now...sure I can understand the reincarnation bits...but the extraterrestrial tyrant Xenu stacking millions of frozen people at the base of an errupting volcano I have some difficulty swallowing.

I know L. Ron Hubbard (creator) was a sci-fiction writer, and that he came under alot of fire for creating this "religion".

Some of the concepts are interesting. It is completely against psychia/ologies, and their drugs, and claims that they are repressors of our past traumas..past meaning before birth in this life.
And that reaching a certain level of Scientology (which will cost you $360,000 apparently) will also help you to unlock your superhuman powers to control time, matter, energy and space.

So...um...what do you think about this "religion"?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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The Fade
SILVER Member since May 2005

The Fade

fading happily....
Location: melbournia australia

Total posts: 212
Posted:didnt even L Ron Hubbard denounce Scientology in the end? said it was just an experiment and generally a load of BS.

ive always generally ignored it. if it helps people then yay for them, but it doesnt hold anything for me, seems decidedly farcical even. i went in for the free IQ and Personality test at the church of scientology in melbourne once. it was a bit of fun but then i had to sit through 15 mins fo this guy trying to tell me i could be superior to everyone else if i bought thier books *rolls eyes* the best bit was watching my friend argue with the person who gave him his results because he didnt like them. they were shouting at each other ubblol good times :P


We walk light
Down the wires
Higher than weather baloons
Empty hearts on fire...

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thegreatnoname


member
Location: under your bed

Total posts: 58
Posted:I think it is a great marketing scheme but far from a "religion".

Isn't sanity a one trick pony? Rational thought is all you get but when you are crazy the sky is the limit.

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Medusa
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...

Total posts: 1433
Posted:I have read stories and talked to people who have "studied" the religion of Scientology and they have all pretty much said the same thing...they are a form of cult that have one thing in mind...taking people's money.

A lot of people have ended up paying their life savings to study the books and attend the workshops because they are brainwashed to believe that it is the way to their enlightenment.

Anyone that steals people's money like that is evil if you ask me....


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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:ohhh I love this topic!

A few years ago, I was looking for a job and noticed an ad in the paper that stated "a councelling tranieeship" was avaliable and that I had to attend offices in the city to come in for an interview for the position...

so in I went, only to find it was a cattle call for Scientology. First they got me to fill out this 500 question booklet with questions like "do you feel sometimes that life is against you?" Then they give you a 'score' (by now I was starting to get a lil suss.)

They then asked me to watch a video and I was out into this tiny little room which was dark and the door was shut (and locked EEP!) and then this HUGE screen comes scrolling down and they start to play a video which has all these whoosing planets and a strange low hum in the background... and I just thought to myself, "I feel like Im being hypnotised"

so I averted my eyes and blocked my ears and freaked out until this lady came back.

she sat me down and started to ask what I thought about the movie. I told her it was a crock of [censored] and that they were using the newspaper to advertise fasely. I then told her that I was going to ring the paper and tell them what they were doing.

she freaked and got her "supervisior"

The first thing she said was that I should buy the books (36 bucks each!! need a set of 6 to start out with!!) and perhaps then I would understand what a fantastic way of life they had and that I would also be able to increase my IQ by using their "e meter"
(Scientology proposes that through a process called auditing that uses techniques developed by Hubbard (often assisted by a device called the E-Meter), an individual can be guided to find and discharge hidden traumas, escaping the suffering and limitations imposed by the past.)

after a while I just got sick of talking around in circles and left...

I got a phone call from them a while later following up as to wether or not I had decided to come back... by this time I had done some research on the topic and just said to them that the founder of their "religion" was a science fiction writer before he founded the religion.....that was their first clue....

they make me laugh really. Check out this site its fantastic...

operation clambake

mad2 mad2 mad2 soapbox soapbox soapbox meditate meditate meditate meditate


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Spanner
BRONZE Member since Feb 2003

Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere..., ...

Total posts: 2790
Posted:(Details deleted and moved to another forum, will PM on request to those I know smile )



I have no time for Scientology, nor for Scientologists. I don't recognise it as a religion at all, but a cult. Actually, the fact that Tom Cruise follows it is what puts me off him and his films: I can't take either of them seriously.



 Written by : Wikipedia

The word scientology has a history of its own. Although nowadays associated almost exclusively with Hubbard's work, it was coined by the philologist Alan Upward in 1907 as a synonym for "pseudoscience".





Sounds like a fair description to me biggrin


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I've read the first book, which is quite interesting, all about how everything in the universe is made up of viewpoints, and defined by what is watching as much as what is being watched.

This at the atomic/subatmic level and overall, quite cool sounding story.

The logic flaw to me is that if it works, why do the upper echelons get paid so much? Surely they will need money less and less as their powers over the universe increase?

Oh well, at least they aren't buying guns or tanks or other things dangerous with their money....

smile


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:why do the upper echelons get paid so much? why does the pope lead a life of such luxury?

maybe the upper echelons get paid lots because of what is watching them, the uneducated masses seem to largely worship money, so in aid of bringing them closer to enlightenment its necessary to seduce them to said religion with the things they crave most.

i think theres some truth in everything if you know where/how to look, the atoms making up the wall behind me are quite probably vibrating in such a way that causes them to run the opperating system winblows 95 but im simply unable to percieve the way in which they do this.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:That reminds me of Mostly Harmless, the scene where the guide called attention to certain droplets of falling rain, and it showed a giant Arthur Dent looking very suprised.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:Written by: ben-ja-men


to run the opperating system winblows 95





Was that typo intentional? ubblol

EDITED_BY: sparkey! (1120035425)


-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:This "religion" believes that all medicine is poison to the body.

It believes that all psychiatrists should be put in a concentration camp somewhere in South Africa.

It has tortured, killed, extorted, and destroyed lives.

Really, it's no worse than any other organized religion, it's just particularly bad for being so small.

They recruit with "personality" and "stress" tests. Then they tell you that you're deficient in this, that, or the other thing. And that if you take this or that course, it will help you to be better at X, Y, and Z. And then you're roped in.

They recruit with "Free stress tests" at Times Square subway station.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:L.Ron Hubbard, at a Sci-Fi convention in Newark, NJ in 1947:' "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous," he told the meeting. "If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion."





..If you want a religion that's based on making money, just go with the Church of the Subgenius, it's ten times as much fun and a hell of a lot more honest. Only card carrying paid up members will be taken to the ships of the Sex Goddesses! Pay to know what you really think! Hell, buy the entire church for $5 million!


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:Interesting topic...

I would like to point out a few things. In France unlike the USa, Scientology is illegal as considered like a dangerous manipulative cult.

When i went to visit my friend in Tampa, I could not beleive that the city of Clearwater was practically OWNED by scientology, with the main boulevard being called Ron Hubbard boulevard or street or something

it is not a small religion, it is quite big and has access to very powerfull things such as described by valura, installation of IT systems (apparently one of their subsidiaries installed 1/3 of the IT in the French ministries how scary is that ? ...

when they went on trial for fraud, manipulation harrassment etc. in france... witnesses retracted under pressure, their file disappeared, some remaining documents in teh possession of the state burnt ... in an "accident"... so for lack of proof they had to be left untouched pretty much.

and CHarles i will have to disagree with you about the fact taht they are "harmless", not only physical weapons are destructive... ruining lives, splitting families, pushing people to isolation, suicide, depression is a way to kill a being as well, don t you agree ?

I really have an utter disgust for groups of people manipulating others on their weaknesses... cults disgust me... religions as a political tool of power makes me very angry...
there is nothing further from spirituality to me than this...

i know there are a wide variety of cults and not all are equally dangerous, so I apologize for this generalization.

yet i do have a lot of respect for individuals in those cults (well the base at least)because none of us can guarantee they will not fall into one trap or another in times of great dispear, loss, pain. I just wish there were not so many others lurking around like vultures ready to feed on the wounds...

hmmmm i need to take a breath look at the sun and share a real hug now smile

shine on
cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: Charles
Oh well, at least they aren't buying guns or tanks or other things dangerous with their money....

smile


Nope, there have been numerous deaths associated with Scientology, it's in no way a harmless cult.

http://www.lisamcpherson.org/deaths.htm


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:anyone seen that simpsons where they all get indoctrinated into that cult to build a spaceship and leave the earth? just about sums it up really... smile

otherwise i think i'd agree with most of what cass says...


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:There's a similar Family Guy episode where Meg joins a cult by accident...

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Written by: Valura


mad2 mad2 mad2 soapbox soapbox soapbox meditate meditate meditate meditate



Marvellous use of gremlins there chicken! ubblove


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Hubert_Cumberdale
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

Hubert_Cumberdale

[psylocibin fingerbobe].
Location: London, United Kingdom

Total posts: 479
Posted:It sounds like an extortion racket to me.

Religion is crap and cults are even worse.

it's a bunch of a.r.s.e innit!


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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There, United Kingdom

Total posts: 6140
Posted:I read in my sister's "grazia" magazine (.. i was bored and it was laying on the table)

That they think when you give birth the woman shoudl have it natural and they shouldn't scream out in pain as it scars the soul of the baby!!

Reading some of the links people have put to... wow! I never realised how destructive it was. I knew it was some wierd money grabbing cult trying to be recognised as a religion but...!!


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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Gnarly Cranium
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

Gnarly Cranium

member
Location: San Francisco, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:Guys, all a 'cult' actually is, technically, is a religious variationthat isn't widely accepted yet. If you ask me, the cults that have become widely accepted into established religions are far, far worse than any of this crap ever could be-- because hardly anyone complains like this about them, and the sick stuff that they're used to justify is taken for granted. Catholicism alone has killed millions more than Scientology ever will, not just extorting people but taking the economies of whole nations hostage.
EDITED_BY: Gnarly Cranium (1120060083)


"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I have to give L. Ron Hubbard alot of credit for the foresight, just as I do anyone who creates something like this. I think takes alot of guts, a good deal of creativity, high levels of charisma and a decisive lack of concideration for mankind that I find perplexing.

I also am impressed at how many seemingly intelligent people Scientology has duped. It is not targetted towards ignorant masses at all, like several on the cult list. It is targetted towards people with money and "power" to influence others. Rather reminds me of a pyramind scheme actually...which I thought were illegal here in the US, but are protected if registered as a religion, which is how it gets away with so much here in the US.

Lawsuits have been brought against it around the world, not just in France. Germany doesn't even recognize it as a religion but as a money making incorporation.

I am going to disagree with Charles as well. It is a very dangerous, and frighteningly powerful organization.

From what I read Mike, they are not against *all* medicine, and that is evident by the amount of high profile Scientologists who have had hospital care. They are completely against any and all mind altering drugs (including extreme pain killers), and mental care physicians/facilities, which I agree is extreme enough.
Though they are not the only religion against some form of modern medicine.

Then I was reading there is the blend version Christian Scientology. It eliminates alot of the alien stuff and substitutes in God.

Valura, I have to say you have infinately more patience than I do. The minute I found that door locked they would have been having one not-very-nice Pele on thier backsides...complete with a call to the cops.

Anyone watch the television show The 4400? The organization in that is suspiciously like Scientologists methinks.

I don't think I ever realized how spooky it is. I mean, my sister's church is on the cult list as well, and while scary it is not like this.

Thanks for the thoughts all! This is pretty interesting!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Well done cranium, for spotting that. The word "Cult" gets bandied around a lot by the media, when it's exactly what you say it is. Scientology is much more like a Sect because it has no "Parent" religion.

Wake up tomorrow and it'll have taken over the world, and installed Tom Cruise as it's leader... eek

Someone stop them! And by the way (I tried to say I'd... sorry rolleyes ) isn't it illegal to lock someone in? Doesn't that come under kidnapping or something? Even if it isn't illegal it's way out of line, and I'm with Pele on this one. devil


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Written by: Gnarly Cranium

Guys, all a 'cult' actually is, technically, is a religious variationthat isn't widely accepted yet. If you ask me, the cults that have become widely accepted into established religions are far, far worse than any of this crap ever could be-- because hardly anyone complains like this about them, and the sick stuff that they're used to justify is taken for granted. Catholicism alone has killed millions more than Scientology ever will, not just extorting people but taking the economies of whole nations hostage.




Not true GC.
From dictionary.com

Cult

1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2. The followers of such a religion or sect.


Therefore, a cult *is* recognised, but also concidered extremist by current social standards.

Pink...actually, the not screaming during labour is something even doctors will tell you not to do. Obviously not because it scars the baby's soul, but because the energy you are wasting screaming should be used in pushing. Screaming also tenses muscles and compounds the pain of labour. Go through the motions of screaming and you will feel all your abdominal muscles tighten down...add that to labour pains = worse pain.
And even dr's tend to agree that if possible, childbirth *should* be natural. It seems that in that respect they have some of the correct concepts with some warped reasonings.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Cloudscape
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

Cloudscape

Member
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Total posts: 62
Posted:This is a really interesting thread. I've always thought of Scientology as a quirky, harmless set of beliefs - now that I'm a bit more informed I see it for what it is - manipulative and dangerous.

I have no problem with their beliefs being wierd or far fetched - after all if you'd never heard of christianity or islam you would probably find their beliefs wierd and far-fetched. What really does get me though is an organisation that plays on people's fears and insecurities - like by recruiting through personality tests.

Organised religions have been responsible for a lot of evil and wrongdoing in the past but in the modern world most have noble intentions and an underlying message of love - I generally respect people's belief's even when I don't share them - I just can't bring myself to say that about Scientology.


Remember what the doormouse said

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Written by:
Valura, I have to say you have infinately more patience than I do. The minute I found that door locked they would have been having one not-very-nice Pele on thier backsides...complete with a call to the cops.



I was pretty damn angry, but I was more scared than angry so I just waited... I knew that I would get out, I just knew I had to wait til the video was over. redface redface redface


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Icer
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Icer

just a shadow of my former self...
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Total posts: 205
Posted:scientology is very scary, not only in its practices and actions but also in the way ppl have reacted to it. everyone here seems to dislike it to varying degrees, but certain ppl all over the world have embrassed it and poured money into it; that is the particualry scary part. reflect how easy ppl can be manipulated.



on another note, the definitions given by GC and Pele dont conflict. they basically say the same thing in a different way.


It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I agree, it is scary Icer.

I went through the Clambake site that Valura linked to. Wow! The quotes put out there by L. Ron himself showed what seriously comes across as a true dislike of people. "By any means" comes up alot. *shiver*

Valura, did you end up calling the papers and blowing them in?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Papers didnt care matey. I felt like a dick to be honest. The girl kinda blew me off, she said that they could advertise anything in the jobs section that they wanted. *le sigh* I gave up after that.

Hey did anyone else notice that the page that spiral linked to in regards to murder/sucidies and scientology, that only two of them work? The rest are 404 and broken links? 2 out of 23 links work.
HMMMMMMMM someone been cleaning up the net a little? confused


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Ade
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

Are we there yet?
Location: australia

Total posts: 1897
Posted:the scientologists in sydney, a few years ago, built a giant wall volcano (a 2 dimensional volcano attached to a wall) that was situated along our main street near our cinemas. The volcano used to go off quite regularly (as it was programmed to do).



eek



Was there for a few years before it was pulled down...



My very first job in sydney was in town, across the road from the Scientologist head office, we were warned on our induction day not to take the 'free personality tests' they were offering... ubblol

EDITED_BY: Ade (1120102569)


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Puk
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia

Total posts: 2615
Posted:Accually a similar thing happened to me as valura . I went in and they tried to get me to watch this movie and i just walked out .

They tried to tell me im a emotionaly crippled (to the wording of)
but highly intellegent , umm dirrr i thought .
You can only find happiness inside yourself .

Have you ever sceen battlefield earth with john travolta ? lot of little things with sciencetolgy thoughts and concepts there as well.


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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Domino
SILVER Member since May 2004

UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK

Total posts: 757
Posted:Battlefield Earth is crap. The film anyway, apparently the book is meant to be quite good, not that I've read it.

I'll admit I don't remember much of the idea behind the film beyond the importance of leverage and knowledge, what did I miss?


Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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Page: 123

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