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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:i really should not be doing ths, i am reall yopening myslef up to a lot of abuse wink

anyways

www.laterdays.co.uk

has had a huge re-vamp, and i was wondering what you think?

critism welcome of all kinds

the main problems i already know are, its not css'd, but im far to lazy to css the whole thing, and i think there is a few photos missing, and the shop prices need to be updated, as it was taken from an older page...

hug


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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:no critisism here, except i didnt know you sold ur flagstaffs

*drools*

tis good, needs pictures.

cheers, pete biggrin


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:sorting that hopfull over the w/e

will get my lady to get some of me!


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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:grouse

(lotsa flagstaff uns, am starting to save now)


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:have you seen ben-jamens sheff pip vid, they are in there!

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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:PiP confuses me, got a link?

"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:ill see fi i can find it for you

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:its actullay on teh soton-firepinning site

it called

Poi in the Park - The Ben Experiance

and its in the members section of the downloads area....

you need to be a memeber to get it, but soton if free, so no wories

http://soton-firespinning.co.uk/


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pineapple pete
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne

Total posts: 5125
Posted:very nice. unfortunately i can hardly afford 45pounds at the moment.

cheers, pete biggrin


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:not a problem, i dont think i wil forget how to make them

plus im re-designing teh flags to be bigger and better atm


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:do you want all the criticism here or would an email be better? smile

it looks tonnes better though dude smile


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:CSS is the main thing you should look at. I see no reason why anyone would use tables for anything other than tabular data.

The XHTML is good other than the lack of ALT tags.

As far as the design goes, the menu isnt clear at first. It took me a while before I saw it. Maybe you should add a 25% transparent background to it or something. Also, I dont like the 2 menu system you have. Whats the point of the Poi/Staff/etc menu? you should try to have one nav bar with clear text that describes what the page does. the use of Javascript menus could work but it would be a messy patch on the problem.

The page doesnt sit well in the browser. Maybe a 1px line to the left and right of the content forming a box would work.

I dont like the headings on the pages. They should be a bit bigger and maybe plain text.

Im not a fan of animated gifs so I would like to see all the images smaller and stacked to the left, but thats just my opinion.

Ill get back to you on more thoughts later, hope this helped.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:cheers sym

cole if you have load sto say, you can mail me, that wuold be cool, unless youwnat to post it here, and ill work my way throught it

the reason i used the dual layered menu sys was mainly down to wnating to uplad pics to teh site as well, and that what they arethere for, to explain to some one what poi is and what staff is......

teh fire has already gotten a transparancy to it, to make it less dominant that the text

what broswer are you using, nd what do you mean sit well, i dont understand, to far left, to far ight, it should be cenetered in teh middle of any page

the heading on the page are done to add continuity to the site, but not detract from the text body

cheers for all your comments


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:okay, all my comments are content related but here goes:

you need either a spell-checker, a proof reader or preferably both.
looks a bit busy/squished in places e.g. the downloads page titles, headers and content is a bit close together
the presence of the poitoy video seems weird - don't really get why a promotional video for a product that you do not sell (or even endorse) is on your site...
and lastly, you may not like this one but: you seem to be offering products/services that you cannot provide (specifically referring to the home page here) - plus i never knew i was part of the laterdays team... umm


by the way, what is css and how does it help (i'm going to be constructing my website later this year/early next so am very slowly sucking in web design advice smile)?


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:where does it say you are part of the laterdays team?

as for css, it controls te layout, ie colours, tables shapes, boarder controls and such of you page in one file,

so that it is not written into every page,

what do you mean, product i can not provide?


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:This is what i'm talking about:


Non-Https Image Link


hug


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:yeah i have thought about that, but i was worried about implamenting it, i think it would be much harder to implament and less worth it?

maybe ill have anoter look in a min


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Colman, CSS is the _proper_ way of laying out HTML.

The bad way of doing it is to use a big table and put content in cells. CSS will look at the tags in your site and lay them out based on names and ID's for them. So you can have all H1 tags aligned left and bold without puting _any_ markup on the H1 tag.

anyway, this isnt' the right place to teach you - please feel free to email / pm / start a CSS thread if you want to learn more. biggrin


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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Hey sweety, not web advice but marketing.

Just as a suggestion, whilst it is just you in the team, I would suggest not putting in a "the team" section. It draws attention to the fact you are only one performer, whereas I am certain should it be required you would be able to pull together a group. The customer does not need to know the behind the scenes working, they just need to know they will get a good performance (maybe change the last sentence to say that the customer can discuss how many performers are required).

You may have to find another reason to get that beautiful mug shot of yours up there!!! wink hug


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:it doesn't say my name but the workshop page states:
"below is a list of the workshops we have done either as a team, or as individuals in the past".
there is no mention of collaboration at all which suggests that you provided this service using only laterdays team members or did it all by yourself.

as for product/services you cannot provide, i'd say that:
"choreographed dance and performance routines"
is a bit of a stretch, wouldn't you?

the fact that your team comprises just one person, means that all of the services offered mentioning groups of performers would have to be sub-contracted and that is not what the site suggests at all...

sorry if this sounds a bit harsh step but it seems weird that you are marketing services that performance groups invest serious time and money in putting together which in real terms, you cannot yet provide.

i will take all that back without hesitation if i am speaking out of place and you do indeed have choreographed dance and performance routines for groups of performers ready to sell but without them, i think you are possibly overstepping what it is fair to advertise.


i love the shop however and, personally, i think it should really be the main focus of the site.
it easily has the most content and the services you offer in terms of material products (performer-oriented, custom build props) are easily enough to give your site an identity and a unique selling point smile

with less emphasis on marketing the performance/workshop side of things, your site could show to a much better degree what your expertise is and where your interests lie.

it would also give you an opportunity to link to other people's sites (performance groups) and have them link back to you - especially if any of them use your props (you can that an endorsement i believe) smile

basically, you could sum up my comments as this:
the services and products that you can provide are more suited to the performer/hobbyist market yet your site seems to be a 50/50 mix of selling performance services to the public and selling performance products to performers.
you have no divide between the two target markets and as such your website seems to be aiming for both at the same time.


that can be better explained by saying:
people that are looking at workshop information will not care that you make three types of staff and that two of them have airvents for better heat dispersal!
likewise, someone looking to buy a flagstaff will not care that you do can do roaming stiltwalking performance and entertainment.


however, the way i see it, you are in an ideal and fairly unique position of marketing yourself solely towards performance groups.
your shop is great and will get steadily better as you add the photos, safety info (i love the safety/maintenence data sheet idea by the way) and develop more products.
if you want springboard sales from this, rather than offering performance services that you would have trouble providing to the public, why not try selling your photography skills (your specialism in fire performance photography is fairly unique) to performers?


as a lovely disclaimer, i just want to say this is all just my opinion - its your website first and foremost step and, for all my comments, you are wholly entitled to say whatever you like on it ubbrollsmile hug


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:not at all cole, i have just read that throught twice



and i do understand what you are sayin all the way through that



the whole point of putting this thread up was to get input in to the construct of the site, and the layout of the ideas, to best use the site





i have been thinking of r a while that the site is a little miss-leading as i was unsure about some of the marketing features......





i will be chabging parts of the site over the next week or so, mainly down to i do agree with what you are saying



however, i would disagree, that you have to be a group to produce a dance routine, or a goreographed series of moves,



you can stand and do a three beat move or you can move with it



i think its a blury line, and while you see carpe putting lots of time into routines, you might forget that even as one persons you have to move, and groove to a show?



thanks cole,



maybe another chat at the weekend,



i feel like im offending people for some reason....



cole, i will change the workshop page, the review does have a description of using you guys, and a link to carpes site)


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Written by:
i feel like im offending people for some reason....



not me.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: mech


however, i would disagree, that you have to be a group to produce a dance routine, or a goreographed series of moves,



you can stand and do a three beat move or you can move with it



i think its a blury line, and while you see carpe putting lots of time into routines, you might forget that even as one persons you have to move, and groove to a show?







true, but 'choreographed' suggests that you have written, and can perform, a set, planned sequence of moves.



as you say, a choreographed piece can describe a solo performance just as much as it can describe a group performance, but it has to mean that the routines are actually that - set and can be repeated on demand (and it is usually assumed that a choreographed piece is set to music too).



choreographed performance does not simply mean "spinning with movement to music".





Written by: mech


thanks cole,



maybe another chat at the weekend,







definitely (don't care whether its about this stuff or not) hug2



Written by: mech


i feel like im offending people for some reason....







well, you certainly haven't offended me me old china (well, not recently anyway wink).





cole. x

hug2


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:this is true, and i working on and creating, a set of on demand routines

i have your b-day pressie for the w/e for you as well mate!


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Gayle......!
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol !!!!!!

Total posts: 2444
Posted:Mech,

Just one note - have you have permission for the children's parents to use pictures of their kids on your site. Not that i think anything would ever happen it's just when we do performaces for dancing we are not allowed to video or take pictures of the children performing due to child protection regs.

Also i agree with Cole on the spell checker or proof reading front. The spelling and grammar do bring the site down.

I think the site looks excellent and very professional and i think your photos are fantastic. Maybe, as an extension to what cole said about your photography maybe take pictures from events and allow people to purchase them in different sizes for instance???

Well there's my two cents worth. Keep at it as it will look kick-ass when you've finished.

hug


Gayle.....!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: mech


this is true, and i working on and creating, a set of on demand routines







like i said :



"you are marketing services that performance groups invest serious time and money in putting together which in real terms, you cannot yet provide."



i was getting at the fact that choreographed routines take a fair amount of time to create and they take even longer to bring up to performance level.



i have no doubt that you fully intend to be able to provide shows like that but i think you should ask yourself the question "if someone rang me for a quote on all of my services and products today, which ones could i realistically provide quotes for and fulfil?"





great idea on the event photography gayle smile





cole. x

EDITED_BY: coleman (1117033635)


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mech
BRONZE Member since Jun 2003

mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"

Total posts: 6207
Posted:yes, the school where the shots where taken, has premission slips from all parets to use shots of the kids on their website, and i have asked for permission from them to use them

cheers


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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:It doesn't use Javascript or ActiveX

ubbrollsmile bounce2 ubbrollsmile bounce2 ubbrollsmile bounce2 juggle
This, IMO, is very good (in terms of accessiblitiy and security), and a refreshing change to many of the sites posted here.

The spelling is really going to let you down when it comes to getting bookings- the whole site needs checking but, in particular-

1. 'proffessional' really jars because part of what being professional is, involves attention to such details; and it's consistently mis-spelled through the entire site

2. the 'team' page is very bad in terms of grammar and spelling; this is the page that is supposed to sell your and your services and it really will put people off booking you

As a start just copy/paste all the text you put up into 'Word', or something with a spell checker.

The menu looks nice but, if images are disabled, it's useless. If possible it would be worth duplicating the menu items as simple text links.

CSS is good, and well worth using; but that doesn't mean that tables for layout are evil- at least tables work consitently well in pretty much all browsers- some CSS layout does not work in some major browsers (at least without using 'fudges' to account for browser discepancies).


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire

Total posts: 3136
Posted:The main constructive critism I'd give about professional webdesign in general, is never use the subdomain the site's going to be on for development.

Stick it on a seperate subdomain/domain and have a password on it. You can freely give out the password to people you want to look at it, but it won't be picked up automatically by web spiders.

Other than the fact that in my opinion an unfinished site with lots of placeholders looks unprofessional (like openning a supermarket whilst the builders are still in), if you do have content on it which you don't want on the final version, having it cached in google/msn for the next 12 months isn't the way forward.


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:robots.txt is a far nicer way of doing it.....

but I agree, having googlebot picking up an unfinished site isn't good.


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire

Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by:
robots.txt is a far nicer way of doing it





not all search engines take total notice wink



the other benefit of having a seperate development site is that you can use it to play in the future without breaking the production version


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