vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

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Location: Austin, Texas, USA

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Posted:Ok, I've been working on trying to nail an inverted (forward) BTB weave (at least that is the only thing I can think to call it).

problem is I can only manage it on my left side (which is naturally the side I start with). when I transition to the right side, I always wind up with a screw up in the form of some sort of unwanted airwrap or thru wrap.

Now while that might look cool later, I want to get the basic move first but just can't think my way through it because my brain seems to be completely incapable of analyzing any form of BTB move.

If I try to start with my right side I just can't do it at all (I've tried and tried) and I have come to the conclusion my only hope is to learn the transition from left to right.

I know it is doubtful without being able to see what I am doing, but does anyone have any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong?

ubbloco


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

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Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

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Posted:I didt try, but now without Poi it seems that you start with hand crossed at one side, then inversion throught BTN that is BTB (short Poi required) and than on the other side releaseed to normal BTB.
Just my imagination smile

light :R


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:well, I am getting the intermediate BTN no problem (note that I do this by going underarm instead of short poi)

It just occured to me that I probably am not doing a lead in BTN on the right side (underarm) which would probably help land the move, but shouldn't strictly be necissary (should it?)...

hmmm... will try that when I get home.

thanks


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

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Posted:You do it wheel or wall plane?

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:that's because the btb inversions are odd...

two things that should help clear up your problem, both of whihc are better for your form anyway.. IMO..

1- don't do a inverted weave like a buzzsaw weave... what I mean by that is for you not to try and get it to weave in the standard middle buzzsaw point.. try and do the inversion between arm and body (like under the arm pit of the side your on) and then as you come out the inversion just carry across to the other side.. like you would when you finish doing anything else over there (like twisting up) and wanted to come across..

your btb buzzsaw plane is a lot cleaner right there between the outer and inner planes.. so getting your inversion in there is easier, and helps work towards insides if you ever chose..

2- do your inversion at an angle.. you know how trinities form a trinagle, because instead of side planes being parallel, they are at 60 degrees.. so it forms a point.. well if you angle your inversions in the back, instead of getting it under the arm and parallel (with the other side plane thouhg nothing is there), you do it at an angle.. this will help you work towards getting one in the middle of the back buzzsaw plane, if you really want one there.. I typically don't recommend it for reasons of room. but by doing at an angle, you can work up to that point, or just have it come out like an inversion in a trinity, and thus btb buzzsaw'd just turned a little..


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

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Posted:REV > Good description, that helps with side-side plane position, like when you first try to learn BTB Weave. Im thinking to try it in wall plane BTB plane smile looks tricky. Like I sad I do try just to imagine what you say an it's:

1 - Inverted plane placement
2 - Choose acute angel
3 - what 's in the middle, where is the crosshanded twist ?


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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

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Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand

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Posted:Question:

Is this thread about btb weave and seperating the Poi away from each other so the heads nearly clash? In the wall plane? not in the buzzsaw plane? Sort of like a 1 petal flower that fits inbetween the weave?


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Dragon7
GOLD Member since Oct 2003

Dragon7

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Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand

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Posted:Or am I off topic and the Poi are doing btb weave almost horozontal! eek ubbloco

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

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Posted:Atually not a flower yet, its something like usage of inverted vertical planes behnd your back. Now specially in split time weave motion.

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

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Posted:Written by: Richee

You do it wheel or wall plane?



wheel


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arashi


arashi

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Posted:*humps rev's leg*

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

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Posted:Written by: Rev


1- don't do a inverted weave like a buzzsaw weave... what I mean by that is for you not to try and get it to weave in the standard middle buzzsaw point.. try and do the inversion between arm and body (like under the arm pit of the side your on) and then as you come out the inversion just carry across to the other side.. like you would when you finish doing anything else over there (like twisting up) and wanted to come across..







I am doing the inversion under the armpit (i think), but I am not carry the exit across but rather bringing it back to the same side armpit (again, I think - need to bring my Poi to work where my set access is!)



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />



2- do your inversion at an angle.. you know how trinities form a trinagle, because instead of side planes being parallel, they are at 60 degrees.. so it forms a point.. well if you angle your inversions in the back, instead of getting it under the arm and parallel (with the other side plane thouhg nothing is there), you do it at an angle.. this will help you work towards getting one in the middle of the back buzzsaw plane, if you really want one there.. I typically don't recommend it for reasons of room. but by doing at an angle, you can work up to that point, or just have it come out like an inversion in a trinity, and thus btb buzzsaw'd just turned a little..





Hmmm... will have to think on that. don't really want the buzzsaw in the middle.



thanks for the help rev and richee.



Dr4 - nothing horizontal about anything I am trying to accomplish here... shrug



arashi: umm


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

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Posted:ok, I'm putting this move on the back burner for a while, just can't think backwards well wnough to figure out my situation... maybe time will help and my subconcious will find the solution in the mean time.

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_Clare_
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)

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Posted:Am sure between yourself, Arashi and Andy you'll work it out at Flipside smile

Getting to the other side smile

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

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Posted:wow... I somehow missed this thread after my last post... I'm sorry guys.. I don't know how that happened...

richee- I agree that wallplane helps to an extent... the reason I chose to go with the description I did is because it brings it into this (and this amy sound f'd up) vague area between wall and sideplane.. because the angle that you turn the torso at when getting that under the armpit area brings out the best of both planes.. you get the facing of the wall plane, yet the reach of the side plane.. (if that makes sense at all)..

I'm not sure about your question in part 3 though... I'm sure you know what inversions are, so it shouldnt be aproblem to picture them in the back.. the only thing that makes things awkward for btb (IMO <-keypoint to remember), is that when you spin up front the transision across is made out (like as in away from you) whihc is where the arms point.. btb, for me, is awkward because my hands want to point at a sharp anlge down most of the time.. so since the transition is still out (this time back away from you) relative to your hand position it feels liek you are making a transition at the bottom of the spin.. (to clarify, its because its away and your hands are pointing down so it feels like it happens at an angle down because the obottom of the hands face up)
just read your post after dragons.. its not just something that uses inverted planes.. inverted planes.. its an inverted weave... if you are not sure about that I have a clip of what that looks like up front.. it's lost in a really long thread on inversions and insides along with some other stuff.. if you'd like I can re post the link in here.. its not the clearest, but it makes the point..

dragon- no homie.. but props on getting those Poi to horizontal.. its not hard to get into.. infact the best way to learn to get horizontal spin btb (ie the btb cork) is to take your btb weave, and do it kinda wallplaned.. when its transitioning into the part of the spin that is at your back, lean forward.. this helps you to bring the Poi into the plane you are comfortable with (ie the one parallel with your back) whihc then happens to be horizontal not vertical.. and voila you have the top of the corkscrew... you jsut have to work on the standing straight and bending the knees to get the bottom part.. wink easy as pie, just takes a little longer to bake...

arashi *pulls out the rolled up newspaper and thwacks arashi on the nose* bad arashi, stay on the paper..

vanize- try this... when you get it under the armpit on say the right side, your torso probably (at least mine does) ~leans~ to the left side (and you are turned facing the right side) as you are finishing the inversion (but havent finished yet) lean into it.. as in lean to the right and dip your right shoulder into it.. this basically puts you into the position of leaning right while kinda facing left.. (whihc is where you need to be for the left side stuff) it also kinda pushes your hands to the left side.. because if you kinda hold them how they are, then the turning of the torso turns where they are..
just to get an idea of what I'm saying.. just stand with your hands like they would be if you were doing the under armpit part of the inversion on the right side.. hold that arm position and bring your torso straight (your hands should go to btb in that arch above your bum) and as you lean right they should go into the left side plane..

hope that helps some people..


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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

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Posted:thanks rev! that is my kind of instruction!

will try it this weekend. smile


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Analemma


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Posted:Written by:
*humps rev's leg*


The Texanian spinners still manage to scare me from time to time hug

Nice thread Vanize and I am looking forward to meet you on this flipside thingy. Till then my only input would be - practice those very slow with clubs wirst and then speed up. Otherwise I can imagine this move to look like someone is trying to get some bees out of the back of his trousers eek biggrin hug

shrug

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

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Posted:how appropriate andy... you know if you go right side plane btb -> btb wallplane weave (inner and outer) or btb cork -> left sideplane btb.. and you mix in inversions.. it looks a hell of alot like you've got handcuffs on and somethings loose in your trousers.. wow thankx lolsign

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"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

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Posted:Vance has ants in his pants (as they used to tell me in primary school)

frankly I feel it looks a lot more elegant than that though. in fact, the whole reason I wanted to learn this move is to have a more elegant BTB move.

ok - progress!! woohoo!

got it so I can complete one full left and right cycle of this move about one time in 3 - much better! I can even manage that much with full length Poi now if I isolate a bit and am really really lucky.

The preemtive leaning was the key - Thanks Rev!!!

now, I just need to manage to get it back over to the side I start on... just once. that is my next goal. Hope to have that by flipside (i thnk I'll dig my clubs out of storage while I am back in texas too)

my ultimate goal is to take this move into a deep back bend and isolate it. that will take me another 5 years of spinning though I'm sure...


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Gherkin
GOLD Member since Apr 2005

Gherkin

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Location: , Australia

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Posted:One thing that helped me keep the Inverted BTB Weave going smoothly was to do it with my eyes shut... I'm not sure how it works, but it did. confused
EDITED_BY: Gherkin (1115643477)


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

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Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:You felt it, you did it smile

light :R


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