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Forums > Social Discussion > Object Manipulation vs Incompetence

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quiet


quiet

analytic
Location: bristol

Total posts: 503
Posted:Something OneWheelDave said . . ..

'I come from a background of extreme negativity, my school life and family life taught me that I was inept in most things, in particular anything physical requiring co-ordination or fitness.

What I learnt from years of improving at juggling is that practice is the key, and negative attitude the main hinderance.

Juggling was the first thing I saw myself as being 'good' at something. Additionally, as I always maintained, juggling is a superb discipline for understanding what learning is about- it's hard to learn the basics, and then, it never stops being hard. Progress in juggling is continuous butting up against things that you cannot do (yet). '

Got me thinking: I've had pretty much exactly the same experience. It's a revelation when you find out that you can actually do stuff (and convince other people that you can do stuff).

So, question: how many people have had a similar experience?

e


ture na sig

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:*puts his hand up*

Yep, spinning is the first thing I have been really good at, other than annoying people more than I do now...

which is one of the reasons I love it so.

smile


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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:the problem i have is one of self-belief/confidence and the mistake of comparison with others.

with juggling, the constant 'butting up against i can't do this yet' feeling makes me lose sight of what i can do.
the amount of things i can't do in this particular field far outweighs what i can, and i have to really stop and think to realise that i am 'good' at some of this stuff.

the thing that gives me perspective is when i consider what i have learnt in the past two years and the hope that with continued effort, i will go on to greater things in the next two years...

i also find i tend to compare myself only to those of a higher skill/experience level to me.
as such, i often come out feeling inferior and that the contribution i make is small compared to others i play with and learn from.

so its kind of an opposite effect to what was described above shrug

but i came from an extremely positive home that taught that all i had to do was believe and work hard to achieve my dreams so i guess its a very different situation for me.

i do love learning (which is why this is the area i think about most rather than the 'what i can already do' bit - perhaps a reason for my aversion to polishing my skills to performance level) and i love what i have found in spinning/juggling/object manipulation and besides, if i thought i was brilliant already, i doubt my desire to improve and better myself would be nearly as strong smile

good thread quiet (and cheers dave for the kick start on it).


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:I've been quite crap at stuff involving sports and coordination for most of my life, mostly when gymnastics etc were concerned. Since I went to a German school I didn't have much choice though, I had to stand on the beam and try and look elegant being overweight and scared of heights and getting grinned at by all the pretty sporty girls quite a lot! Though even at that time I could juggle a bit and was good enough at stuff like football, basketball, tennis etc, that was all considered not girly enough, and I've been pretty much told from all sides that I'm not exactly attractive or fit for most of my life.
So when some time ago one of my friends watched me showing off poi and said it looked really pretty and elegant I was so happy! (apparently compliments a girl gets from another girl have a much higher impact, I'm inclined to believe that!)


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I agree with a lot of what Cole says...

Written by: coleman
with juggling, the constant 'butting up against i can't do this yet' feeling makes me lose sight of what i can do.
the amount of things i can't do in this particular field far outweighs what i can, and i have to really stop and think to realise that i am 'good' at some of this stuff.


Same here - especially when reading the forums here and seeing all of the things I still don't know it can sometimes be frustrating. I think it's sometimes one of the reasons I tend to go through plateau periods where I'm more aware of what I don't know and can't quite get yet rather than being happy with the huge array of things I already know.

Written by: coleman
i also find i tend to compare myself only to those of a higher skill/experience level to me.
as such, i often come out feeling inferior and that the contribution i make is small compared to others i play with and learn from.


Also true smile

Written by: coleman
so its kind of an opposite effect to what was described above shrug


Partly yes as I've just said... but...

Poi is the first thing I've ever really stuck at in my life - I'm not quite sure why as I was *really* crap at it for quite a long time - it amazes me how quickly some people pick up the basics nowadays. But once over that initial hump I've found I'm quite good at it, and I'm proud in what I can do - both because of general skill and because I've never been a physically talented person. In fact having to work harder than a lot of people gives me more of a feeling of acheivement when I do get stuff - because it's down to effort and hard work.

Good thread indeed!


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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The Tea Fairy
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

The Tea Fairy

old hand
Location: Behind you...

Total posts: 853
Posted:Hmm, interesting. This seems to link up to a discussion I was having with my boyfriend about intelligence and stupidity; he's convinced there are some people out there who have limited potential to learn, apply logic or develop good cognitive skills... basically, some people are just pretty stupid and will never be 'smart' no matter how hard they try.

I instead argued that I believe anyone can learn anything if they want to, if they persevere with it enough... I believe we all have such great potential, it's just some of us are a bit lazy, disinterested or haven't got the self esteem that tells us we can really do it if we try.

We never reached a satisfactory conclusion to the debate, I ended up getting annoyed. How can you judge intelligence, anyway? I mean, we all have skills that are valuable. Even being able to juggle seems like a mark of great intelligence to me, because it's something I can't do... but I know I could learn how if I put enough effort into it!
biggrin


Idolized by Aurinoko

Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....

Bob Dylan

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munkypunks
GOLD Member since Jan 2005

munkypunks

enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
Location: Los Angeles, California

Total posts: 367
Posted:It has to be a combo of potential and effort. I know people who could be certified geniuses who never bother to work at anything; also people of avg potential who work hard and do really well; and then I do know a couple of people who are just not that bright (heart of gold and all that, but wow, just simple) and are not going to catch on to some stuff no matter what.

People have natural proclivities toward certain things, but sometimes you don't realize it or you're told a bunch of negative stuff, etc. And it sucks when people miss out on something that they could be really good at - or just might really enjoy, even if they're not spectacular - because someone close to them tells them they can't do it. I was always told I was book-smart, but uncoordinated, ungraceful, so I had a similar revelation to what people are talking about here when I found out I can dance. That eventually led to other things, such as poi, and I still get really excited when someone tells me that I spin well (for a beginner). bounce


You can't fall off the floor, but sometimes you need a chair to reach the cookie jar.

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Nate
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

Nate

Groovy ga watashi no namae desu!
Location: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England

Total posts: 1530
Posted:this thread is amazing

all of the above has actually aplied to my recent beliefs and thoughts about life over the last 8 months since i started poi

thhanks alot for making me and my views on this subject feel more accepted

i've argued about this to friends, who often dissagree:(

THANKS


I like Languages.

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:nope.

But I have confidence issues about other things which poi and spinning have helped with. Mainly social stuff rather than ineptitude in particular skills. In fact I would almost say the opposite.

Not being accepted/liked/valued made me very lonely. I started spinning. Don't really attatch as much importance to those feelings (which are still there) unless I get really down now. hmmm. Spinning helped me become myself more I think.


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:without trying to sound to soppy.

its gotta be about love. love of something and love of sharing. because thats what you do when you love something. you set it free wink

i would never have imagined that i was going to arrive where i am now and right now im so happy because of the people i've met and been inspired by and even inspired myself.

and all because i love spinning. the feeling of learning something continually and sharing and teaching it carries such a satisfying sense of accomplishment that my confidence keeps on growing.

smile


Love is the law.

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:There are more than one type of intelligence. And some people find it harder to learn and use physical skills than, say, verbally based or musical or interpersonal ones. Spinning will be easier for some people to learn.. and a major developmental leap for others. I didn't start poi till I was nearly 50.. and I am a very slow learner at physical/spatial things. (smart [censored] in other ways though wink )

So for me being able to spin even a simple pattern, and feel great, is just SOOOO satisfying!!!!! I've recently 'unhooked' myself from the detailed technical precision 'London' approach and let fly into a more spacey dancy feral yeehaaaa way. And find myself spontaneaously being able to do things....like spin behind my back, or have each hand doing something totally different... that I have struggled with for ages. Reminded me about left brain/right brain learning.

And yeah ado-p it IS just lovely, the way people share and inspire each other in this field!!!

But juggling.. sheesh, another lifetime maybe..... but I'm so glad that poi and juggling somehow have ended up into the same 'field' cos when I go to juggle jam I just *GRIN* to see the jugglers!


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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roarfire
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside

Total posts: 2676
Posted:I'm not saying that I am an outstanding spinner, but with the size of my town and the hobby that I have it is percieved as some huge outstanding talent. Coming from someone who has never been liked/accepted, and having an overacheiving medical student brother who I've been pressured to live up to.



(Of course the study of medicine and firetwirling are different and I don't mean to come across that I'm comparing them)



I used to hate being known has 'that chick who spins fire' and I did get a bit sick of being greeted as 'hey you're that chick who spins fire!'. But now...I'm trying to teach myself to enjoy it, because nothing I've done has ever been recognised...sure it won't save lives, but it entertains.



I've even got a couple more performances coming up too.



I admire my brother for being smart enough to get into Medicine, having the self disicpline to do all that studying...but I'm pretty sure he admires me for doing something that's considered pretty 'out there' in my town's eyes. For doing something a little different and entertaining...and for doing something that I love.


.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

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=Flashpoint=
SILVER Member since Sep 2004

=Flashpoint=

Pasta of Muppets
Location: in the interwebs...

Total posts: 2719
Posted:I am incompetent at everything except my musical theatre and spinning. I am now perceived as cool and I have met many good friends as a result.

And it is all about love (thx Ado-p) If I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it...


ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
ubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmileubbrollsmile

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay

Total posts: 2216
Posted:ubblol nice thread..



i was thinkin about this sort of thing earlier today. i'm not sure spinning/juggling is the only thing i can do well but i am comparitively better at it than anything else...



bonuses:



there's no (negative) competition or imposed heirachy of skills...



while i've never been shy, my general confidence and self beleif has improved...



i love the way it's helped me to improve my balance and co-ordination and general self awareness of my body...



it's re-stimulated my enjoyment of 'learning'/ using my brain at a pretty useful time...



most importantly for me i'd say belonging to this site and meeting so many lovely people has improved my social interaction and consideration of others all round, with family, freinds and my girlfriend... as well as gving me many new great friends who i'd otherwise have never met! biggrin



s'all good! juggle weavesmiley grouphug


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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hexagonic


hexagonic

Clubbles Jugs
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1687
Posted:Written by: fluffy napalm fairy


nope.

But I have confidence issues about other things which poi and spinning have helped with. Mainly social stuff rather than ineptitude in particular skills. In fact I would almost say the opposite.



Not being accepted/liked/valued made me very lonely. I started spinning. Don't really attach as much importance to those feelings (which are still there) unless I get really down now. hmmm. Spinning helped me become myself more I think.





Agree. I had a lot of confidence "issues" right up until around a year ago. I find that the more i juggle and get into it, the more i enjoy it. It's not so much about comparing yourself to other jugglers, it should be more about what you can do but also more importantly why you do it. I juggle because i enjoy it, first and foremost, but there is that other thing, that thing in the back of my mind which keeps on telling me that i'm not much good at much else. I started juggling at 13 and stopped when i was 15. I'm very glad i started again and always wonder what kind of stuff i would be doing if i hadn't stopped for 9 years.



I'm finding at the moment that i should pursue juggling as far as i can - i'm not much good at much else, so i should concentrate on what i'm

a) good at

b) i enjoy



I also enjoy (and am fairly good at) snooker, and i feel the same way about it, but unfortunately i don't have as much access to full size snooker tables as i do space above my head.



I've found that sharing the knowledge i have to be the best thing about practicing for ages to get something. If you can inspire others into doing something and help them along the way, it's a much better feeling than just getting whatever you're working on. Surrounding myself with people who are into the same juggle and weavesmiley thing as me i find helps as well, since with juggle and weavesmiley are more about how one relates to whatever you're practising, more so than something that would be more competetive. ie. at a juggling night i come away feeling i've learnt something and hopefully inspired others, instead of coming away feeling like i lost or won.



juggle and weavesmiley practicing keeps on moving forward, which can only be a good thing.



Dubs - agree with your last paragraph grouphug

EDITED_BY: Hexagonic (1113486798)


ah wah wah wah a wah wah

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:"Spinning helped me become myself more I think." - FNF

YES.

biggrin

(Will.. I challenge you to a game of pool at somepoint. Im crap and you play snooker... so it should be about equal wink )


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hexagonic


hexagonic

Clubbles Jugs
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1687
Posted:Post deleted by Hexagonic

ah wah wah wah a wah wah

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:Post deleted by Unfortunatly Can Obtain Fruit

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hexagonic


hexagonic

Clubbles Jugs
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1687
Posted:Post deleted by Hexagonic
EDITED_BY: Hexagonic (1113489082)


ah wah wah wah a wah wah

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:Yes definately. I was 'the last kid to get picked at sports' at high school (oddly people thought I was good at junior school and would want to pick me). I think partly it was because I wasn't very popular then. I feel really annoyed as the gy teachers at my school had faveorittes and wouldn't give anyone else a chance.

From that I had lost all confidence in my abilty to do anything physical/sports related well. Although, I have more confidence dancing and have taken a few classes.

but then I discovered poi, and discovered I could be good at them!

They're also great for meeting people


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:poi is the third thing i've been really good at. i'm quite the swimmer, and i'm no slouch at the french horn. most sports (except swimming) i concinder the spawn of Cthulhu and should be trapped under the pacific ocean along with it. i'm still picked last for sports, or at least i would be if i played them.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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munkypunks
GOLD Member since Jan 2005

munkypunks

enthusiast, but not enthusiastic
Location: Los Angeles, California

Total posts: 367
Posted:french horn is the hardest instrument there is. um, musical instrument. my sister played it in jr. high b/c they said she had this phenomenal natural musical ability. So hat's off to ya! (Don't trap sports under the pacific ocean, though, or they'll make you utilize your swimming ability to save them! Must be a more permanent way to do away with organized sports!)

You can't fall off the floor, but sometimes you need a chair to reach the cookie jar.

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